When it comes to USA and Russia, it is pretty easy to realize which one is on the consortium's side. But what about China? Despite their alliance with Russia, it seems China only seeks it opportunistically. The Chinese government could change its policy any time. By the way, China is a dictatorship far worse than USA, freedom simply does not exist there. What is up with China?
What is China's relation with the consortium?
- Thread starter Viktor
- Start date
axj
The Living Force
The relationship between China and the Western-dominated(?) Consortium is indeed one of the big open questions, IMHO.
My current view is that China wants to keep much of the globalist system in place while trying to take them over to become the dominant power instead of the US. At the same time, there seems to be a lot of disinformation about China's supposed huge influence in the West, especially in the US.
I also don't think that the tight control system and the resulting lack of freedom in China can be explained away with them trying to protect China against external attacks and interference - though it may be a big part of it.
There is also an existing thread discussing similar questions regarding China:
cassiopaea.org
One interesting thing is that the C's said that 23% in the US are psychopaths, but only 0.9% in China.
My current view is that China wants to keep much of the globalist system in place while trying to take them over to become the dominant power instead of the US. At the same time, there seems to be a lot of disinformation about China's supposed huge influence in the West, especially in the US.
I also don't think that the tight control system and the resulting lack of freedom in China can be explained away with them trying to protect China against external attacks and interference - though it may be a big part of it.
There is also an existing thread discussing similar questions regarding China:
Pro-China bias?
While we may all generally agree that the USA is the world’s number one rogue state, acting all over the globe to promote the interests of its elite, or the 0.1%ers, I think this could sometimes lead into US-centric way of interpreting the world. I bring this up on the forum here after seeing a...
cassiopaea.org
One interesting thing is that the C's said that 23% in the US are psychopaths, but only 0.9% in China.
Hmm...China is one of those strange dictatorships that's apparently so evil that it seems to have more freedom, stability, and prosperity than the USA. Strange indeed!
There's a lot of research into China on the forum, but I don't know for sure exactly what is up with China. FYI, using the search function in the top right of the page is your friend with these kinds of questions. You can also look into NewsReal Videos or search on SOTT.net.
Here's another thread on China:
Gulags in China?
Reports of hundreds of Gulag-style camps in Northern China, imprisoning millions.
cassiopaea.org
And another:
Ongoing Events in China
Link: _Money China threatens 'nuclear option' of dollar sales By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard Last Updated: 8:39pm BST 10/08/2007 The Chinese government has begun a concerted campaign of economic threats against the United States, hinting that it may liquidate its vast holding of US treasuries if...
cassiopaea.org
I liked this video linked below with Arnaud Bertrand of Me & Qi versus Adrian Zenz of the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation. They debated which system is better - the Chinese or the American? The three metrics of measurement are stability, prosperity and freedom.
The understanding of China in the West seems to be framed in a black-and-white 'are they good or bad?' kinda way. This debate reflects that. I haven't yet really found anyone who talks about China's vices and virtues in a balanced way.
Below is a summary of the main points from Bertrand, on the pro-China side:
Which system is better? And better for whom? The best framing is which system has been (or is) better for its own people.
FREEDOM
-Western freedom is understood as individual freedom. With a broader view of freedom, the assumption that China is unfree is called into question.
-Extreme poverty eradicated – China’s economy grew 1000% since the 70’s, and this prosperity came at the cost of individual freedom. Were they freer when they were poor? Poverty as antithesis of freedom where one is a slave to their condition. He can count on the fingers of one hand in his travels across China where he’s seen a homeless person. In US, 6% in deep poverty, 25% food insecure.
-Roosevelt’s four freedoms ideal for America – freedom from want and freedom from fear. Do people feel free to walk alone at night? 70x more likely to be victim of violent crime in America than China. A very safe country.
-Freedom from drugs – overdose leading cause of death in adults 18-45 in US, while China has one of the lowest drug abuse rates in the world. What could be a bigger restriction to freedom than addiction to drugs?
-Education as a form of freedom by increasing possibilities – China generally tops the charts.
-In terms of physical freedom, USA has an incarceration rate 6-7x higher than China.
-General de Gaulle spoke of one freedom as the precondition for all other freedoms, which is your independence as a country. When one is a vassal state or in the sphere of influence of a larger state, actions are constricted. America is not a vassal state, but its system of military alliances such as NATO and AUKUS, Five Eyes, etc., can be constraining. China cannot be considered a vassal state, but also has no military alliances, and has a high level of sovereignty.
STABILITY
-13 year long American study found that CCP is not loosing legitimacy in the eyes of its people. 93% of people express satisfaction. In US, satisfaction rate in public institutions if closer to 20%. 43% believe there may be a civil war in the next 10 years.
-general characteristics of Chinese society have been maintained for many generations.
-Matteo Ricci in 1600’s attempted to preach the Christian faith, and found a general wariness towards religion amongst the Chinese elite… even though he pretended to be a Buddhist monk, and claimed Christianity was an offshoot of Buddhism. When he dressed as a Confucian philosopher did he manage to get inroads to his ideas. Today secularism is blamed on communism, but it has been there for many generations. An enduring system.
-Many enlightenment ideas proposed by Voltaire were likely a result from Ricci’s translations.
PROSPERITY
-Chinese are less prosperous than Americans, but their approach lends itself to greater prosperity in the long run: between 2014 and 2021, funding directly related to lifting people out of poverty amounted to $14 trillion yuan or $2 trillion, which is roughly the amount of America’s forever wars in the middle East. Much different priorities.
-China wins at infrastructure, high speed rail, energy projects like the 3 Gorges dam, new nuclear reactors, China will meet its solar and wind goals 5 years before 2030. Energy is the most important input for prosperity, and China consumes 50% more than the USA. The more you invest in yourself, the better your chances at making it.
Then Adrian Zenz tows the usual sophisticated Western line of thought - China red commie, China man bad. I won't repeat it because you can just have a look at Western mainstream media and you'll get the picture.
ImaPrototype
Jedi
I'm no connoisseur of China but the same way you see people with completely different ideas about something means there could be different views from Chinese citizens too, for example people who put obedience in front of their own principles could be living in a "dictator" state, while people who can think for themselves could be prospering way more than their western counterparts...
is this a positive system? on one hand you have the ugly coercive state but on the other you're more competitive on a global scale
of course there will be different grades of coercion in different regions and people who pay the price more than others
i find repulsive people who adapt themselves to the impetus of the forces but in this case they have no choice
who will you blame?
is this a positive system? on one hand you have the ugly coercive state but on the other you're more competitive on a global scale
of course there will be different grades of coercion in different regions and people who pay the price more than others
i find repulsive people who adapt themselves to the impetus of the forces but in this case they have no choice
who will you blame?
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Well, China sees what the US sees, they only have a different perspective about it. It is not china causing the US demise, the US will fall, and China is waiting it out.
I do not think they're heavenly and saintly, just because they oppose the US, but I do not think they're evil and they're attempting to take over the world, but I am sure they do have plans and ambitions like every emerging power does.
China is currently offering something to the world that the US won't mutually beneficial financial deals, a very large economic and trading system, the alternative right now is US vassal or else, and none of them is doing very well these days.
I think they have a different view of society and how it is meant to be organized, and they're ok with it. I think there's misery in China, of course, but their society is thriving generally, if there was such a large opposition to their leaders, they would be collapsing, like the USSR did, but they seem ok.
Just because in the West we think that democracy is the best thing, yet we can't produce a single example of non corrupt elections anywhere, doesn't mean that everyone agrees, some people might find it more practical to forego the popularity contests and have one party rule the country so long as they keep things clean and prosper without too much pain.
And as far as their position within the larger system, well.. I'd say they're still 3D STS, so they fall in there somehow, prone to the same things that every other earthling is, and their leadership might be just as prone to manipulation form higher densities and whatnot.
I do not think they're heavenly and saintly, just because they oppose the US, but I do not think they're evil and they're attempting to take over the world, but I am sure they do have plans and ambitions like every emerging power does.
China is currently offering something to the world that the US won't mutually beneficial financial deals, a very large economic and trading system, the alternative right now is US vassal or else, and none of them is doing very well these days.
I think they have a different view of society and how it is meant to be organized, and they're ok with it. I think there's misery in China, of course, but their society is thriving generally, if there was such a large opposition to their leaders, they would be collapsing, like the USSR did, but they seem ok.
Just because in the West we think that democracy is the best thing, yet we can't produce a single example of non corrupt elections anywhere, doesn't mean that everyone agrees, some people might find it more practical to forego the popularity contests and have one party rule the country so long as they keep things clean and prosper without too much pain.
And as far as their position within the larger system, well.. I'd say they're still 3D STS, so they fall in there somehow, prone to the same things that every other earthling is, and their leadership might be just as prone to manipulation form higher densities and whatnot.
axj
The Living Force
The ironic thing is that Putin is genuinely popular in Russia, yet elections still seem to be falsified in his favor to some degree. One of my friends was an election campaign manager in Russia for a long time and is completely disillusioned by Russian democracy, as well as democracy in general.
As to China, they do have a sort of "popularity contest" as well, only that it is within the communist party. It has almost 100 million members, more than most countries. Though the question is how much are advances within the party ranks based on meritocracy and how much is it something else like nepotism or corruption.
It is also hard to say how stable China is really. There have been protests in mainland China on various occasions and sometimes the government even gave in to the demands of the protesters. There is supposedly a social contract in China where people accept the communist party rule as long as their lives get materially better over time. If China went into economic or financial problems, it might not be as stable as it appears to be right now.
Contrary to Russia, China does have a huge debt problem, similar to Western countries. So it is quite possible that China may experience large financial and social problems if or when the West and much of the rest of the world has them - probably within 5 years, maybe as soon as 2-3 years.
Each nation (aka nation state version of post colonial period) has pain point at the time independence, made certain choice at that time( certain way of governance). If the country is still there and thriving means, it is working. China's pain point is lack of national cohesion and used by West and Japan at the time of independence, Mao solved it and rubbed his communist ideology. If we consider ideology as circus, bread has to come before circus. So they are happy to be busy with being economically independent and it is sort of cultural healing.
Modern life is based on silicon technology of West, that needs large funding and know-how, so they are dependent of West. India too has similar story, but different solutions ( aka "democracy") for people to air out differences that are inevitable diverse groups. Each had 1.3+ billion people. I know qualitative is more important than the quantitative.
Each nation (or the people of the nation) values some thing different. The expectation that every body wants Western "Freedom" is simple projection. This is understandable as the dominant nation feeling every body should follow them and they are the center of the world. Even the Chinese thought "yellow race" is superior and they are center of the world, during their glory days. That is nothing new. "Historical cycles" takes care of it.
www.visualcapitalist.com
Consortium contains both 3D STS and 4D STS. 3D STS is slave of 4D STS. 4D STS doesn't care of 3D life except as "container". Wave is here and earth changes are on the horizon and 4D STS wants "harvest". I think proper question is what is China's role in this "harvest". Probably they are like every body else, clueless, can do nothing. Then there is no hope for humanity and there is nothing 3+ STO forces can do except complete destruction of the planet ( whatever that means). But, that seems to be not the case atleast in my understanding of what C's who mentioned "You don't need any body to evolve" and "simple karmic lessons". But, we don't know how it works.
Here is my speculation.
4D STS did choose united states as driving force since WW II (with pentagon driven technology and control)and they did planned to coarse rest of the world. For the last 3 decades, there was LOT of articles of "One world Government" and how every country will come in line- which every body DID during Covid. At some level there is One world government for a long time. They did have full control until Putin came along threw monkey wrench and created coalitions like BRICS, SCO and so on without which he himself would not have withstood the onslaught.
There is a dialog in movie JFK which I liked - "People are suckers of Knowledge". As long as alternative narration goes out, many people will pick it up. Ex: Recent Tucker Carlson's Video. It resonated with so many Westerners who are feeling the pinch of the pain with inflation, picked it up quickly, thus initiating a intense reaction from the PTB and its media. It looks more people will wakeup after "suffering". i.e. 4D STS plan had failed at the time of transition or after transition. In that case, China did contributed for the bigger picture by having its own independent policy breaking the Western control. As a 3D, we can only do so little for the bigger cause.
Modern life is based on silicon technology of West, that needs large funding and know-how, so they are dependent of West. India too has similar story, but different solutions ( aka "democracy") for people to air out differences that are inevitable diverse groups. Each had 1.3+ billion people. I know qualitative is more important than the quantitative.
Each nation (or the people of the nation) values some thing different. The expectation that every body wants Western "Freedom" is simple projection. This is understandable as the dominant nation feeling every body should follow them and they are the center of the world. Even the Chinese thought "yellow race" is superior and they are center of the world, during their glory days. That is nothing new. "Historical cycles" takes care of it.
The World’s Most Influential Values, In One Graphic
What values are the most influential in the world? Across 500,000 surveys in 152 languages, we visualize a rich dataset of human motivations.
www.visualcapitalist.com
Consortium contains both 3D STS and 4D STS. 3D STS is slave of 4D STS. 4D STS doesn't care of 3D life except as "container". Wave is here and earth changes are on the horizon and 4D STS wants "harvest". I think proper question is what is China's role in this "harvest". Probably they are like every body else, clueless, can do nothing. Then there is no hope for humanity and there is nothing 3+ STO forces can do except complete destruction of the planet ( whatever that means). But, that seems to be not the case atleast in my understanding of what C's who mentioned "You don't need any body to evolve" and "simple karmic lessons". But, we don't know how it works.
2018-09-2
Earth's population at this time is not even 8.8 Billion and PTB is trying to wishfully planning to reduce the population. I guess, they will reduce a lot though as most people are not yet awake. Probably, Calculation for 8835 million includes population from other "regions" ( aka dimensions so on) OR survivors will multiply to that level OR something completely different. Any way we don't know yet.
Here is my speculation.
4D STS did choose united states as driving force since WW II (with pentagon driven technology and control)and they did planned to coarse rest of the world. For the last 3 decades, there was LOT of articles of "One world Government" and how every country will come in line- which every body DID during Covid. At some level there is One world government for a long time. They did have full control until Putin came along threw monkey wrench and created coalitions like BRICS, SCO and so on without which he himself would not have withstood the onslaught.
There is a dialog in movie JFK which I liked - "People are suckers of Knowledge". As long as alternative narration goes out, many people will pick it up. Ex: Recent Tucker Carlson's Video. It resonated with so many Westerners who are feeling the pinch of the pain with inflation, picked it up quickly, thus initiating a intense reaction from the PTB and its media. It looks more people will wakeup after "suffering". i.e. 4D STS plan had failed at the time of transition or after transition. In that case, China did contributed for the bigger picture by having its own independent policy breaking the Western control. As a 3D, we can only do so little for the bigger cause.
तत्परिवर्तनं भव
The Force is Strong With This One
C's said that only the most advanced souls choose to be born as asians, probably because they have the most difficult life........relatively.
I don't see where they said that. I did find this:
Like the carrying capacity of the planet (discussed in a more recent session) the problem of too much or too little freedom is best understood in terms of the relationship between the people and psychopaths in power. It's too easy to say that more freedom is the best or right way when we know that there are people who will use that environment for nefarious purposes. Everybody uses their freedom for self serving purposes to some extent, this is a Service to Self realm, whatever the system of government.
Candice
Jedi Master
dredger
The Living Force
I posted the following in the Tucker thread :
This is a topic i had in mind since a certain time. The idea that one of the reasons (and maybe the main reason) the Chinese government decided to put in place such restrictive and also "big brother is watching you" like measures is at first to protect from, literrally, the western social corruption. When the covid started in China, i remember the long explanation the C's gave in the session of 21/3/2020 :
Implementing massive population controls, in this case on the more diffuse danger of societal infection, resonates with their reaction to the first cases of covid recorded in China. This makes me think about the Wetiko virus, but not just that, the simply decadence of the occident, at all levels (that i won't list here), that they need to avoid at all cost any "infection" in their society.
The Chinese mentality or we could even say race is the one (or one of the ones) in the world which have the most similarities (not the right term but all will understand) acting as a beehive or an anthill, it's like if this was bound into their genes. This may explain why they seem to well accept the actual measures, there would be quite more to say and discuss about, but i would dare to say that it probably plays a important role. With such a huge population, it's easy to find some who do want their freedom and do not accept to play their "ant" role (if i can say like this), such people could quickly gather, unite, start to provoke troubles, supported by western $$$ who would quickly finance them. How to prevent such "social infection hotbed" then ? What would one decide if he was Xi Jinping ?
Now ... thinking twice about, with the information from the session where the C's said that orientals reserved for souls most advanced, this image of the beehive or anthill could be extended to simply one of the most repetitive advise given by the C's : networking, forming a united group (solidarity), which could be what would look like the best actual example (or tentative) on earth of what the C's represent in 6D, but with of course, among their 1,4 billions citizen, a certain % who "don't play the game", or don't want to.
Thus, what we see or perceive as dictatorship could be a kind of tentative to form an STO oriented network in an STS world, with all the imperfections of 3D souls having their lessons to learn.
What would be interresting is to know what the average chinese people think about their country, but a real average, not simply asking to people living in cities but taking a good sample of all the different social classes .
Just look at our level here, the forum community, some kind of measures of protection must be taken in order to prevent that bad intended people infiltrate (or corrupt) other individuals, the group and/or the forum itself. We regularly see, among the newcomers on the forum, that some came in the wrong bar, and even if this is the role of one admin to make it understand, it's usual to read some "normal" members of the forum playing (partially) this role to make understand or to debate with the "wrong bar person" which finally leaves the forum. This natural behavior of protecting the group one belong to is maybe present in the average chinese people who, as here on the forum, want to preserve the integrity of their culture and nation and thus more easily accept all the measures taken, even if these measures are certainly not 100% STO oriented, but we have to consider their actions in the world, and what is sure is that they are not aggressive.
I think it's worth to see them under this angle, taking into consideration that we are on an STS planet and as we are all STS, the Chinese people too, and we know now that the corruption always starts at the head (in french, the dicton "Le poisson pourri par la tête", which is said to come from .... a Chinese proverb ^^). I would not be astonished that there are strong tension at the high levels of power in China and that there are quite more STO candidates in term of % than in other countries. The simple fact, considering it's true, that less than 1% of the Chinese are psychopaths, help to consider this ... .
FWIW
This is a topic i had in mind since a certain time. The idea that one of the reasons (and maybe the main reason) the Chinese government decided to put in place such restrictive and also "big brother is watching you" like measures is at first to protect from, literrally, the western social corruption. When the covid started in China, i remember the long explanation the C's gave in the session of 21/3/2020 :
... launching a massive campaign well illustrate the level of ... fear the Chinese government has in regard to the US.
Implementing massive population controls, in this case on the more diffuse danger of societal infection, resonates with their reaction to the first cases of covid recorded in China. This makes me think about the Wetiko virus, but not just that, the simply decadence of the occident, at all levels (that i won't list here), that they need to avoid at all cost any "infection" in their society.
The Chinese mentality or we could even say race is the one (or one of the ones) in the world which have the most similarities (not the right term but all will understand) acting as a beehive or an anthill, it's like if this was bound into their genes. This may explain why they seem to well accept the actual measures, there would be quite more to say and discuss about, but i would dare to say that it probably plays a important role. With such a huge population, it's easy to find some who do want their freedom and do not accept to play their "ant" role (if i can say like this), such people could quickly gather, unite, start to provoke troubles, supported by western $$$ who would quickly finance them. How to prevent such "social infection hotbed" then ? What would one decide if he was Xi Jinping ?
Now ... thinking twice about, with the information from the session where the C's said that orientals reserved for souls most advanced, this image of the beehive or anthill could be extended to simply one of the most repetitive advise given by the C's : networking, forming a united group (solidarity), which could be what would look like the best actual example (or tentative) on earth of what the C's represent in 6D, but with of course, among their 1,4 billions citizen, a certain % who "don't play the game", or don't want to.
Thus, what we see or perceive as dictatorship could be a kind of tentative to form an STO oriented network in an STS world, with all the imperfections of 3D souls having their lessons to learn.
What would be interresting is to know what the average chinese people think about their country, but a real average, not simply asking to people living in cities but taking a good sample of all the different social classes .
Just look at our level here, the forum community, some kind of measures of protection must be taken in order to prevent that bad intended people infiltrate (or corrupt) other individuals, the group and/or the forum itself. We regularly see, among the newcomers on the forum, that some came in the wrong bar, and even if this is the role of one admin to make it understand, it's usual to read some "normal" members of the forum playing (partially) this role to make understand or to debate with the "wrong bar person" which finally leaves the forum. This natural behavior of protecting the group one belong to is maybe present in the average chinese people who, as here on the forum, want to preserve the integrity of their culture and nation and thus more easily accept all the measures taken, even if these measures are certainly not 100% STO oriented, but we have to consider their actions in the world, and what is sure is that they are not aggressive.
I think it's worth to see them under this angle, taking into consideration that we are on an STS planet and as we are all STS, the Chinese people too, and we know now that the corruption always starts at the head (in french, the dicton "Le poisson pourri par la tête", which is said to come from .... a Chinese proverb ^^). I would not be astonished that there are strong tension at the high levels of power in China and that there are quite more STO candidates in term of % than in other countries. The simple fact, considering it's true, that less than 1% of the Chinese are psychopaths, help to consider this ... .
FWIW
There is a detail that keeps bothering me whenever there are talks about China, and Chinese people in general. It is assumed, maybe unconsciously, that Chinese people are all the same, that they don't have individual lives, and that their minds are all controlled in a "hive mind". Of course there are idiots like everywhere else. There are authoritarians like everywhere else. But there are also individuals like everywhere else. There are cultural and historical particularities like everywhere else, but when you talk to people, they have different personalities, different opinions, and different experiences regarding what happens in their lives.
From the relatively limited interaction I've had with Chinese people in a professional setting, some of them are critical of this or that aspect of bureaucracy, sometimes sarcastically, which is the norm everywhere in the world. However, they view some of these "inconveniences" as necessary evils, maybe to be shouldered for a while before some time in the future when it becomes better. After the terrible events of the 50's, 60's etc., they are very conservative in the sense that they see drastic reforms with suspicion, and that "uncontrolled chaos" can lead to a destruction of "harmony" (a word they use a lot: they have a Chinese word for it but they tell me "harmony" is the closest translation to what they mean).
So, the tasting is in the pudding. Less poverty, less aggression, and no hegemonic actions. The day China becomes the US (AKA the evil murderous empire), then at that moment it becomes evil. Until then all we have is speculation from the very deforming lens of Western media. OSIT
From the relatively limited interaction I've had with Chinese people in a professional setting, some of them are critical of this or that aspect of bureaucracy, sometimes sarcastically, which is the norm everywhere in the world. However, they view some of these "inconveniences" as necessary evils, maybe to be shouldered for a while before some time in the future when it becomes better. After the terrible events of the 50's, 60's etc., they are very conservative in the sense that they see drastic reforms with suspicion, and that "uncontrolled chaos" can lead to a destruction of "harmony" (a word they use a lot: they have a Chinese word for it but they tell me "harmony" is the closest translation to what they mean).
So, the tasting is in the pudding. Less poverty, less aggression, and no hegemonic actions. The day China becomes the US (AKA the evil murderous empire), then at that moment it becomes evil. Until then all we have is speculation from the very deforming lens of Western media. OSIT