Waiting for the Other Shoe to Drop

[flashgordonv]

I have been an infrequent contributor here for the last couple of years, although an avid reader and a regular visitor. When I first found the site I though that joining QFS would be a good path forward, and noting the requirement to be active in the forums, I set out to do that. But over time I found I really had little to say, particularly in view of the depth of talent and wisdom that demonstrably resides on this forum and I stopped trying to say something just for the sake of saying it and devoted myself to reading and then more reading.

In terms of life path, I've been a spiritual seeker all my life, with frequent detours. When I was 20 I had a "conversion experience" and was a Pentecostal for some 14 years, was a lay preacher for a few of those years and eventually managed to extricate myself when I looked at my life and found what I was preaching was not real in my life and did not work. I dabbled with Rosicrucianism, with various forms of western magic, but it made no sense to me either. What I ended up doing was strongly focusing on my personal situation and getting myself into a position where I was not deeply in debt.

So here I am trying to start doing The Work, trying to self observe and trying to see objective reality. Now here comes the shoe bit. I am happily married to a lovely lady for 13 years, in a very well paid position where I am respected and well though of, we are financially secure with no debt, own two lovely apartments,drive nice cars and have the latest mod cons. I have been trying to start doing the Work for the last 2 to 3 years, and yet the sky is not falling, I don't see any opposition to my attempts to embrace the Work, and the money keeps flowing in.

(OK, my first wife was a narcissist at the very least and made my life miserable for years and one of my three daughters is totally toxic so it has not been all sweetness and light), but I find myself wondering - either I have messed this up completely and I am embracing A influences and have been kidding myself about the Work OR if I have indeed managed to start down the path, WHY is my life still so darn good and pleasant? (Don't get me wrong either, I am incredibly grateful that my current situation is blessed and privileged compared to where many other people find themselves, but it does worry the heck out of me)

When is the other shoe going to drop...?

 

[Buddy]

Hi Flashgordonv;

I'm glad to hear things are going well for you (more or less).

You give specific details about the 'non-work' aspect of your life, but 'your Work' you describe simply as: "...trying to start doing The Work, trying to self observe and trying to see objective reality."
In addition, you obviously have negative expectations concerning what is supposed to happen to you while you're doing the Work.

Granted, you've been into it about two years (?), with most of that time reading and reading, so how do you feel about your accomplishments so far in reference to the work? I mean, do you understand clearly what the first step(s) is/are and how much time it can take to achieve any significant 'wins'? (of course, that will vary with the individual).

 

[PepperFritz]

Hi Flash, thank you for that "reintroduction".

You seem to be wondering why certain things have or have not happened as a result of your "attempts to embrace the Work". Yet at the same time you make it clear that you have not actually begun the Work in earnest. You mention twice that you have been "trying to start doing the Work", but at the same time have not been an active participant on the forum. One of the first things you must realize is that the Work cannot be done in isolation, but only within the context of a group of people who are also pursuing the Work, who can act as "mirrors" of what we think we may or may not be perceiving/achieving.

As the C's remind us again and again, "Knowledge Protects", but only if it is APPLIED. Although often a preliminary to doing the Work, the process of reading about and understanding the Work on an intellectual level is not the same as DOING it and consistently APPLYING it to your day-to-day life.

It seems to me that you are wondering if you really NEED to do the Work, after all. Of course, only you can make the decision. But when you are ready to begin, this forum is here to help you drop the first shoe....

 

[flashgordonv]

It seems to me that you are wondering if you really NEED to do the Work, after all.

Hi PepperFritz
I am in no doubt that I need to do the Work and I want to do the Work. I refer to myself as attempting to do the work because I am in no way certain that I am actually doing it, and that is the thought behind the post AM I kidding myself.

Buddy, itt seems to me that step one is to self observe, find the set of programs that constantly run and dispose of them thus fusing the magnetic centre. I also noted from my reading that when somebody start to do the Work, the General Law moves to stop them, unless they manage to fly under the radar. Well, that being the case, maybe I am kidding myself because frankly I don't see a lot of progress.

 

[Hildegarda]

[..]
I also noted from my reading that when somebody start to do the Work, the General Law moves to stop them, unless they manage to fly under the radar. Well, that being the case, maybe I am kidding myself because frankly I don't see a lot of progress.

You might want to concentrate on the actual process of doing the Work. Instead, you seem to anticipate various impediments to it, and are attempting to judge your progress through those impediments, or lack of them. It's like trying to look into a cloudy half-broken mirror in order to see what's behind your back. A very convoluted and inaccurate way of doing it.

Have you read the recommended books? Have you followed the discussions on the forum? Do you see how any of these may apply to the finer aspects of your relationships, work, personal life? Have you tried making any conscious changes based on that knowledge, and what was the result?

Only the things you can directly connect and track one from another would make sense, when judging your Work progress. Only when you can apply the knowledge and analyze the results reliably, you will also see "signs" and be able to interpret them correctly. Until then, the signs might as well not exist, it's a jumbled field that gives you no clues.

Everything is good in your life? Good for you! It may be a result of some good choice you made a while ago, or may be a result of nothing at all. It may stay like it is, or it may change tomorrow, and there is nothing you can do about it. But, it is a good place from which to be Working, if you so desire.

 

[Buddy]

Buddy, itt seems to me that step one is to self observe, find the set of programs that constantly run and dispose of them thus fusing the magnetic centre.

Well, umm yeah, but that sounds a bit simplistic, superficial and WAY too much work in "step one", so lets take a look at the path again. Although I'm still a beginner, I took the time to map out the Work I needed to do, so I'll share it with you:

The first order of business

http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=ogi4a9p8jqacfd5pmf256rg540&topic=6989.msg49132#msg49132
[quote author=Laura]
And so, we approach the problem in a very pragmatic and practical way. A person can do nothing until they are psychologically healthy and this means removing buffers, mentally going over the machine in a careful and thorough way, cleaning it, re-wiring it and most of all, having new experiences that help with this re-wiring process in an environment where this is possible.

We begin by assigning reading tasks. You have to have the information, data, the understanding of your machine before you can even observe yourself and have a clue what you are observing. There are a number of contemporary works that serve this purpose beautifully...
[...]
This will give a person a good working knowledge of their buffers and what to be looking for when "self-remembering", "introspecting" or "recapitulating". Without the information in these books, you are basically just wandering around in the dark trying to figure out what this or that "esoteric term" might mean.
[/quote]


[Quote author=Laura]
The "Big Four" books that must be read in this order are:

1)The Myth of Sanity by Martha Stout
2) Trapped in The Mirror by Elan Goulomb
3) Unholy Hungers by Barbara Hort
4) The Narcissistic Family by Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman and Robert M. Pressman
[/quote]


http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=5743.msg39910#msg39910
[quote author=Laura]
[...]
Why for the exact order? Because each book goes into a certain aspect of the mind in a way that relates directly to esoteric work, and the esoteric work "works" when it is done in a certain order.

The Myth of Sanity will tell you some very important things about your own mind and about self-remembering, recapitulation and why it is so important and what it can do for you to fuse all your different selves. It also shows you your mental weaknesses and how to catch the clues that you are falling into the weaknesses. Once you have a good basic understanding about consistency of self, where when and how buffers are created, and how to notice them in fully modern terms, then you are ready to go to the next step.

The next step is to begin to learn about the clues of some of the specific buffers that may (most probably) exist within your being and how family and society help to create them. This process is begun in Trapped in the Mirror.

Then, you need to broaden that view to include others, to learn about behavioral clues to be on the alert for both in yourself and others in a wider context than just narcissism. Narcissism can take many forms, wear many masks both in yourself and others. This is Unholy Hungers.

The Narcissistic Family then brings it back home again. This is a painful book to read because if, by some remote chance, you were able to go through the other three books and keep thinking "oh, that doesn't apply to me," then that final illusion will be stripped away with TNF.

These four books are about stripping away lies and illusions. They teach you an enormous amount about how your mental machine works, how your centers work, though, unfortunately, the authors do not talk in terms of centers.

All of them taken together lay out for us how we get started using emotional energy for intellectual tasks and how the motor center also distorts the emotional energy and enslaves the intellect to serve its needs.

It's one thing to read Gurdjieff saying that you lie to yourself all the time, and for Don Juan to tell you that the "predator" gave us its mind, it is something else altogether to get the details in clinical language with real examples given to show the exact dynamics to even the dullest thinker!

Anybody can do this work if they have the will and desire and begin at the beginning!

Of course, once you know the details and all that, then having a network for feedback where everyone is working with these concepts and sharing their observations and progress is crucial. It is SO easy (as you will learn) to deceive yourself and think you are awakening when you have just gone back to sleep and are dreaming of being awake.
[/quote]


http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=2832.msg76823#msg76823
[quote author=Laura]

The process of fusion may take many years. On the other hand, with the right circumstances - such as the present "petty tyrant" of the external reality - it can be rather rapid. It occurs in five stages.

The Five Stages of Fusion

First Stage: This period consists in sustained self-observation with the objective of getting to know all the different "parts" of the self, the programs, what is "automatic" or mechanical, and what is not. While this stage proceeds, the Seeker must continually be aware that what he is observing is a myriad of "I's" and that very little of what he observes is the real "I." Once the seeker has become familiar with the spectacle of his many "I's" that constitute his personality, he must attempt to discover which of these "I's" are the ones that wish to dominate the rest. These are generally "I's" that exist due to lying to oneself or hypocrisy. These "I's" must be unmasked in the first stage of the work. Otherwise, any fusion that takes place will be improper and incomplete and based on a false reality.
[/quote]
The next four stages follow at this point. (Refer to the link given above).


My apologies to Laura for taking a mess of her quotes out of context. I don't think anything here is misleading. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[T.C.]

Hi Flashgordonv

I want to do the Work

Can I ask.... why? I mean that sincerely.

Why would you want to change yourself, your life, your whole being, if you like yourself, your life and your whole being? What would be the motivation?

 

[Laura]

So here I am trying to start doing The Work, trying to self observe and trying to see objective reality. Now here comes the shoe bit. {...} I have been trying to start doing the Work for the last 2 to 3 years, and yet the sky is not falling, I don't see any opposition to my attempts to embrace the Work, and the money keeps flowing in.

First of all, it's almost impossible to do anything on one's own. One man cannot escape alone... but a group can. Perhaps now is time to put your money and life where your desire is?

First of all, the SOTT editors always need more help. In QFS, we have found working on sott to be one of the best ways of attacking self-importance, self-pity, complacency, and learning exactly what you are made of. If you are ready to actually start, write to me privately and I'll see that you get hooked up. Maybe after a time, you'll be ready for QFS.

 

[flashgordonv]

Can I ask.... why? I mean that sincerely.

Why would you want to change yourself, your life, your whole being, if you like yourself, your life and your whole being? What would be the motivation?

Hmm, did I say I liked myself, my life and my whole being? (well, I wasn't aware I said that and that is not what I meant).

What I thought I did was describe where I am at the moment, my current situation, and expressed some concern that I am deluding myself as to whether I am doing the Work or not.
Yes, I did say I have a well paid job, but I DIDN'T say I enjoy it, I didn't say it satisfied me - I said it was well paid and the money keeps flowing in. There is a world of difference there.
I know from first hand experience that being able to acquire anything material thing I want does not satisfy. I set out absolutely focused on achieving financial independence when I left the church, (my life was a mess, I was messily divorced and had to start again with just the clothes on my back and the items that fit into my car). I have achieved a level of financial security and frankly it doesn't satisfy either. It is another of the many things I have applied myself to over the course of my life and it doesn't quench the hunger for something real, tangible.

And that's one of the reasons I am here.

I want to change my life because I know I am NOT whole, and I know that where I have got to is not fulfilling and I know there is more.

 

[anart]

[quote author=flashgordon]
Hmm, did I say I liked myself, my life and my whole being? (well, I wasn't aware I said that and that is not what I meant). [/quote]

To answer your question, yes, you did imply that you were quite satisfied with your life, that things are easy for you and that you're wondering why things are not more difficult if you are 'doing the Work'.

What I thought I did was describe where I am at the moment, my current situation, and expressed some concern that I am deluding myself as to whether I am doing the Work or not.

As Laura pointed out, the Work cannot be done alone, so you can likely rest assured that no, you are not doing the Work.

Yes, I did say I have a well paid job, but I DIDN'T say I enjoy it, I didn't say it satisfied me - I said it was well paid and the money keeps flowing in. There is a world of difference there.

A difference you did not state.

I know from first hand experience that being able to acquire anything material thing I want does not satisfy. I set out absolutely focused on achieving financial independence when I left the church, (my life was a mess, I was messily divorced and had to start again with just the clothes on my back and the items that fit into my car). I have achieved a level of financial security and frankly it doesn't satisfy either. It is another of the many things I have applied myself to over the course of my life and it doesn't quench the hunger for something real, tangible.

It sounds as if you are 'hungry for more' - not as if you have reached a point of bankruptcy; of seeing all you have and all you are as a lie.

And that's one of the reasons I am here.

I want to change my life because I know I am NOT whole, and I know that where I have got to is not fulfilling and I know there is more.

Have you made it through the suggested reading list? What efforts have you been making on your own that have led you to believe that you were doing the Work?

In short, flashgordon, in this thread you sound rather like someone who is used to getting everything he wants and who now 'wants' more - and that you've decided that the Work might satisfy this 'want'. It appears that you might not really understand what it is that you are after - especially how it would relate to 'dying so you can be born'.

Or - perhaps you are simply not making yourself very clear and you do realize what it means to understand, on a visceral level, that all you are and all you have done is a lie and that to really 'Be' that you must 'die', so to speak. I hope it is the latter.

 

[flashgordonv]

You might want to concentrate on the actual process of doing the Work. Instead, you seem to anticipate various impediments to it, and are attempting to judge your progress through those impediments, or lack of them. It's like trying to look into a cloudy half-broken mirror in order to see what's behind your back. A very convoluted and inaccurate way of doing it.

Point taken. It is a very negative approach, I hadn't really looked at it like that.

Have you read the recommended books? Have you followed the discussions on the forum? Do you see how any of these may apply to the finer aspects of your relationships, work, personal life? Have you tried making any conscious changes based on that knowledge, and what was the result?

Yes, I have read the recommended books, I read the Signs page every day, I comb the forums regularly. I buy every book referred to in the forums and the SOTT page, in fact I have a racks of books waiting for digestion.

As far as applying all of these things in my life, now there's the thing. I didn't want to answer this part of your reply, I found myself wanting to avoid it. I do believe upon reflection that I might spend too much time reading and not enough time applying what I am gleaning from the reading, deluding myself into thinking that the reading is the doing. Thank you for the insight.

Everything is good in your life? Good for you! It may be a result of some good choice you made a while ago, or may be a result of nothing at all. It may stay like it is, or it may change tomorrow, and there is nothing you can do about it. But, it is a good place from which to be Working, if you so desire.

No, everything is not good in my life, just in some parts of my life. But you are right, it is a good place from which to be Working. Thanks for your insights

 

[flashgordonv]

In short, flashgordon, in this thread you sound rather like someone who is used to getting everything he wants and who now 'wants' more - and that you've decided that the Work might satisfy this 'want'. It appears that you might not really understand what it is that you are after - especially how it would relate to 'dying so you can be born'.

Or - perhaps you are simply not making yourself very clear and you do realize what it means to understand, on a visceral level, that all you are and all you have done is a lie and that to really 'Be' that you must 'die', so to speak. I hope it is the latter.

Wow, this mirror effect people talk about on the forum is very powerful. People here are telling me very uncomfortable things about myself as revealed in my posts and I find my first instinct is to defend myself. I think I best just sit down and quietly digest this information, maybe I will learn something.

 

[PepperFritz]

Flash: In the Accidental Pregnancy thread, I noticed that you made the following observation about your daughter:

A girl was very desperate not to be single & was lacking attention from guys .......
They do not love each other, nor in a relationship (friends?).......
She is not really sure what she wants in life, she lacks a direction. She gets depressed often & not quite happy with a life.
Not so long ago, she said that if she does not get married that's fine, she will just have a child & raise him/her herself since she loves kids.

Wow, that description fits my daughter like a glove. After being in this situation, she went ahead and had her child, he is just over 2 years old. Now unfortunately she uses him as a weapon to punish people with, as something to love her and as a tool to try to extract things she wants from family and friends.

You seem to be describing an ongoing situation in which your daughter manipulates you in various ways. How do you feel about that? Have you applied what you have read and learned about the Work to that situation? Have you made attempts to objectively observe your own behaviour when interacting with her, has it helped you to gain insight into the role you may play in enabling her manipulation, has it helped you to change the dynamic between you?

 

[flashgordonv]

You seem to be describing an ongoing situation in which your daughter manipulates you in various ways. How do you feel about that? Have you applied what you have read and learned about the Work to that situation? Have you made attempts to objectively observe your own behaviour when interacting with her, has it helped you to gain insight into the role you may play in enabling her manipulation, has it helped you to change the dynamic between you?

Apologies for the late reply I have been travelling for the last two days and I am near brain dead at the moment.

Actually, this is a situation I have dealt with. I did mention in my first post that my eldest daughter is toxic. I have finally accepted that interacting with my daughter is providing a feeding situation which had been going on for many years. She is somebody who is a taker, a user and a manipulator, who cannot tell the truth and who thinks of nothing and nobody but herself. At the point in time when she caused a huge upset and refused to allow us to visit her ( a pre-arranged meeting which involved us flying to NZ) and meet the grandchild unless various demands were met, I cut the connection with her and have had no interaction with her for over 18 months. I am not being very clear here, I am too tired, I will try and be clearer after I get some sleep.

 

[T.C.]

I find my first instinct is to defend myself.

That's a very common reaction; "Oh, they're misinterpreting me. I didn't explain myself properly. Well, I guess... BUT...", etc. Really, it's just the predator mourning the fact that all those years of perfecting its camouflage have amounted to nothing.

I think it's great that you observed the program and stopped it from taking control. I don't think I could have done that in my first mirror.