Transformers - We are the Autobots, They are the Decepticons.

Well, to add to that, my parents used to laugh when I hurt myself as a child like falling or whatever. They did not laugh *at* me exactly, they did it to change my own reaction to it. My reaction was like all kids, panic, and then crying. And yeah it made me mad when they laughed. But over some time I got used to it, and I laughed too at my own pain, it became funny rather than a tragedy, I understood that they were laughing at the situation/how funny I looked, and not as enjoying my pain. Cuz I don't think we cry strictly because it hurts. I think a big part of the reason is we want pity/energy, we feel sorry for ourselves and want others to feel sorry for us, so we make pain into something worse/more than it is - and as kids, that means crying. Ever notice how kids tend to cry even harder as soon as they are hugged and told its ok?

Not to say that it's wrong to hug and comfort somebody, but perhaps there is a way to do it without enciting more self pity. I dunno what the best approach would be, but my parents chose laughing (as long as the pain/accident wasn't something serious or really bad, and I only acted like it was by crying), and it worked. My reaction to my own pain now is humor/laughter, which actually helps me keep cool about it and not be thrown into panic and be overwhelmed with a flood of emotions and self pity that interfere with thinking.

And on a similar note, probably *the* best way I know to make a baby or a child stop crying is to mimic it, fake-cry in the same tone right back at it. It works exactly the same every time - the crying stops with a look of confusion as in "Uhh.. you're not supposed to cry, I'm supposed to cry, what's going on here?!?". Again, not to say that crying is bad or wrong, because it is a release and sometimes there is no replacement for it, but I mean when it's just habitual/manipulative, when it's a way to get attention or to get your way, or just self pity for no good reason, etc. Most if not all kids tend to cry cuz they've learned it gets them what they want from their parents. Children learn to be manipulative from infanthood, and if it works, they'll use it unconsciously without thinking. Then they all end up on the Murray show being sent to Boot Camp because their parents are incapable of raising a child, which requires at least some psychological clue as one of the requirements. Oy!
 
ScioAgapeOmnis said:
Well, to add to that, my parents used to laugh when I hurt myself as a child like falling or whatever. They did not laugh *at* me exactly, they did it to change my own reaction to it. My reaction was like all kids, panic, and then crying. And yeah it made me mad when they laughed. But over some time I got used to it, and I laughed too at my own pain, it became funny rather than a tragedy, I understood that they were laughing at the situation/how funny I looked, and not as enjoying my pain. Cuz I don't think we cry strictly because it hurts. I think a big part of the reason is we want pity/energy, we feel sorry for ourselves and want others to feel sorry for us, so we make pain into something worse/more than it is - and as kids, that means crying. Ever notice how kids tend to cry even harder as soon as they are hugged and told its ok?


Not to say that it's wrong to hug and comfort somebody, but perhaps there is a way to do it without enciting more self pity. I dunno what the best approach would be, but my parents chose laughing (as long as the pain/accident wasn't something serious or really bad, and I only acted like it was by crying), and it worked. My reaction to my own pain now is humor/laughter, which actually helps me keep cool about it and not be thrown into panic and be overwhelmed with a flood of emotions and self pity that interfere with thinking.

And on a similar note, probably *the* best way I know to make a baby or a child stop crying is to mimic it, fake-cry in the same tone right back at it. It works exactly the same every time - the crying stops with a look of confusion as in "Uhh.. you're not supposed to cry, I'm supposed to cry, what's going on here?!?". Again, not to say that crying is bad or wrong, because it is a release and sometimes there is no replacement for it, but I mean when it's just habitual/manipulative, when it's a way to get attention or to get your way, or just self pity for no good reason, etc. Most if not all kids tend to cry cuz they've learned it gets them what they want from their parents. Children learn to be manipulative from infanthood, and if it works, they'll use it unconsciously without thinking. Then they all end up on the Murray show being sent to Boot Camp because their parents are incapable of raising a child, which requires at least some psychological clue as one of the requirements. Oy!
I do not know you or your parents but could it be because they wanted to thougen you despite you being hurt ? because to cry when your hurt wasn't acceptable to them somehow ?

I think you're right to say "I don't think we cry strictly because it hurts." because sometimes we just need to cry, especially children because there is so much stress and tension building up that hurting yourself will act as a good "excuse" to let go of all these emotions, frustrations and so on.
A child who's crying more when you take him into your arms is letting go of his tensions, even if he's fighting not to cry, you should let him cry all he needs to. I stress the "in your arms" part because what they need is not that we help them stop crying but to cry all what they need when they need it in the comfort of our arms.

I think in society, we usually don't let the children cry, it's not socially acceptable. As parents it also make us feel very uncomfortable because we kinda feel obliged to comfort and protect our kids, which is true, but also to let them know that crying is also accepted because it's part of our humanity.
I mean this society has been ponerized to the marrow, so the best way to cut our bond with our children is to teach parents to be non-responsive to the emotional needs of young infants.

If a kid or an adult uses self-pity (when non psychopathic) it's probably because he needs attention because he probably did get enough when he needed it the most osit. It's not that simple but if as parents we'd give attention to our kids when they need it (and that's not being manipulative), really need it, why would they go look for it somewhere else ?

I don't think little children are manipulative (when not psychopathic, and if he/she is when do you see it ?) because they don't even grasp these concept until later on.
I do think it can come later on though but I suppose young children needs to test us sometimes.

Imagine you can't speak but if you cry you obtain what you need, food,comfort etc... you would use it, not because it's manipulative but because it's your only way to communicate, at first.
It's up to us to be careful and vigilant about what our child really needs, and it's not always easy.

For most people it's easier to give the kid a pacifier, or milk (which can be a welcome respite I admit it) than to really answer to the child's need.

Maybe we're just projecting our own feeling of manipulation on them because we've been taught that by our own parents and society in general osit.
 
I dunno man - about this "laughing method". I'm reading "Trapped in the mirror" right now and there are lot's of cases when kids didn't receive support from their parents while being hurt, what in effect caused them misery and forced them to become manipulative.

Why would one like to confuse little ones with laughing or mimicking, when they are hurt? Isn't it "mindfu*king" them? When instead of feeling appropriate emotion they begin to think "Uhh.. you're not supposed to cry, I'm supposed to cry, what's going on here?!?" - isn't it harming them in a serious way?

Maybe as you say, such method may be usefull when one sees his kid is crying to manipulate. But then, why the poor kid would have to learn manipulation in the first place? However, I have no kids so maybe I'm off with this.
 
SAO said:
I think a big part of the reason is we want pity/energy, we feel sorry for ourselves and want others to feel sorry for us, so we make pain into something worse/more than it is - and as kids, that means crying. Ever notice how kids tend to cry even harder as soon as they are hugged and told its ok?
I think a child (or adult for that matter) may also cry harder when comforted because they feel secure enough in the environment to allow the full expression of the emotion. I suppose it depends on the situation.

The irony seems that if a child is using crying as a means of manipulation, there is likely a program there that was built on some genuine pain, perhaps neglect. osit.
 
Ever notice how kids tend to cry even harder as soon as they are hugged and told its ok?
It might be down to the childs feelings being validted by parent. not sure tho.

Anyway, I wasnt that impressed with Transformers.
 
Resurrecting this old thread because I happened to see this movie on dvd tonight. I have to say that I have never - ever - seen a better CGI military recruiting video disguised as a feature film in my entire life. This movie was heavily laden with not so subtle military industrial propaganda from beginning to end.

Yes, the special effects were fun, as was the acting of Shia LaBeouf since he at least brought a modicum of normal humanity to the film. Were it not for him, the entire script could have come straight off of a desk in the Pentagon - yet even he did not make this film worth the time it took to watch.

Honestly, I couldn't get past the constant heavy 'hero' military presence to ever get even vaguely involved in this film - though I really wanted to because of the acting of Shia - but, perhaps, that's just me. I do find it fascinating, and rather frightening, that the few people who mentioned this film this past summer to me never even brought up the 'soldiers as heroes/victims/main characters' in this film - as if our society is already so militarized that it's completely normal to have the US military fighting battles in the streets of Manhattan - or having the entire first minutes of the film setting up soldiers in the Middle East as the good guys who miss their families and are best friends with the locals.

Perhaps reality has intruded too far for that premise to play at all in December, when it played well in July - or, perhaps it still plays well and always will with the sleeping masses. Either way, this movie is barely disguised propaganda and nothing more, from my perspective - but - that's just my take on it.
 
I had a similar experience to Anart, preventing me from relaxing and enjoying the film. Any scene involving high level military personnel, particularly the Secretary of Defence, was too preposterously unrealistic and laughable. The overall effect was one of pro-military propaganda, in which what is best described in reality as a 'war machine' was represented as a benevolent force acting unseen to protect us all from threats which we do not understand. I was also really disappointed because many of the other ingredients would have added up to a great film, but there was far too much cheese!
 
just watched transformers, albeit a little late in the game!

i thought the CGI was INCREDIBLE. being a designer myself i kept pausing the scenes to watch the transformations in slow motion. just... mindblowing. i personally don't see how people can watch visual effects like that and not go "wha!!!"

however, i do agree with both anart and ben. the opening scene with the special forces guys talking about "back home" and "hey, you guys remember weekends?" totally threw me off right off the bat. especially that the soldiers were friends with the locals? in qatar? hmmm...

but also on the other hand i noticed some messages/dialogue that really resonated with me. anybody else notice that the autobots came on meteors and had "variable physicality?" and there were two lines that really stood out: "freedom is the light of all sentient beings." and when megatron says "the humans don't deserve to live!" and optimus responds "they deserve to choose for themselves!"

also agree with SAO about the "flicking scene", it was disturbing and a nonchalant cessation of a human life. totally threw me... that and when megatron and optimus prime went flying through that office building, they must have killed like fifty people! such is hollywood, i guess...

the last observation i had was this: when they took the allspark from the hoover dam and went to bring it into the city, WHY DID THEY BRING IT INTO THE CITY? they knew the decepticons were coming for it, so, um, yea "let's take this thing into a populated area where we know it's gonna rain the sh**storm of all time and up the chance of civilian casualties..."

weird. all in all though, i loved it, 'cause at my current level of awareness i feel like i can still look past the military propaganda and find the bits of truth in the film that resonate with me... osit...
 
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