The Work and Religious Bias

[ki77ies]

For two many years, I thought associated sites linked to Cassiopaea that allowed individuals to comment (such as SOTT) had come from or were aware of OR were well read in the books that Laura wrote. To some extent, there were a lot and you could see it in their comments about an article or with each other. There was a sense of calmness in the comments that allowed me to read short form discussions and even some good links provided as I had very little time to digest much more, mentally and probably physically.

There have been a lot of changes, with some long time members passing on and others leaving to now where I've begun to participate in commenting and also wanting to be here, in this forum. The forum headline is what concerns me the most and it's for my own growth in the work of learning and understanding what I'm capable of.

I find an immense amount of bible quoting, which we know is from one particular religion as others have books that aren't referred to as "the bible", osit. The uptick in people using Christianity as a defense to not do certain things that are being forced on them - like standing up or doing something that involves the trans/LGBTQ++ agenda - seems cowardly as half of them have never spoken two words about their beliefs, demonstrated them or cared about any other cause until they absolutely *had* to. Basically, when they don't agree to something, such as the "jab" (covid "vax") or the other agendas that have been pushed hard the last few years, the only people kind of getting a pass if not ending up on some news article somewhere are the ones using religion as an M.O. to justify their exclusion and maybe that's true for some of them, but I think for a lot more, they just don't want to get into the "why not" and other questions associated with their decision.

This increase in what I'm seeing is bothering me, because for the most part, these people aren't religious at all and it's being used as a crusade to those that are to preach moreso than possibly ever before - which is what SOTT has been degrading into with all the biblical quotes and people claiming every other thing is "Satan" or "satanic" in nature. It's in the conservative "talk shows" that I come across on Youtube (like Matt Walsh) that I think I agree with on the science when debating this mass hysteria that - in my opinion - devolve to an irrational level of religion and start using bible quotes.

For some reason, this has caused an alarming increase of disgust in a focused and religious direction. Not at the people so much as the religion itself. I went to Catholic school for 8yrs so I'm well aware of the religion and there was never anything that felt right nor made me have faith in any of the texts, as it was taught. My parents didn't force me to choose a religious path and were never religious themselves and there's not one of us, of 2 other siblings and my mom and dad, that spoke of, prayed, went to church (outside of school) or even discussed such things. One of the two had the first copy of Chariots of the Gods that I tried to read when I was still in that grade school and that made more sense to me than the bible ever did.

I'm trying to get past this and I REALLY don't know how. I feel that it's starting to become a block to my progress in learning and maybe it always was, but it's more prevalent now. I simply do not understand where religious people come from, especially when they're only "religious by association", i.e. not knowing anything different or even wanting to accept a more simple, spiritual perception.

 

[Glenn]

Well, maybe relax a little, things are getting pretty crazy, and good people are being attacked from every angle, so if people are getting pretty irrational, it is going to be expected. Expecting people to have a more simple spiritual perception, is a pretty tall order. IMO. And conversely, the only perception we can change, is our own.

 

[Ben]

How do you arrive at the conclusion that some people are not religious at all, and some are? Even religious people can't often agree amongst themselves as to who is a 'true believer'. To atheists I would sound like a Christian, to fundamentalists I would sound like an atheist ("you don't even go to church??"). It's less of a black and white situation than that. If you had told me years ago that I will end up quoting the Bible, talking about Paul and reading biblical scholars I would probably have disagreed. There's evil afoot, and it's preferable, in my opinion, to see that clearly and denounce it. The terminology you choose to describe it isn't the most important thing.

 

[ki77ies]

People claim to be things they're not all the time out of convenience. Determining whether they're "fake" or not isn't the point. I understand the basic need to want to believe in something or to belong to a group for community aspects, but after that it splits off in too many directions for the current discussion and is moving away from what I'm trying to learn.

I think there's good information to be gained in the wake of all the craziness going on, especially on how to navigate through the propaganda with an emotionally detached mind so that when the need arises, you can stand your ground and clearly articulate why you are against the mob mentalities. Knowledge protects and I would like to be as well protected as I can because this insanity is only going to get worse. Discerning key points in the many discussions of our current state of affairs is full time job as many companies that you're probably associated with (such as job/corporation, health insurance, doctors in general) are changing their policies as a result of it and it's best not to be caught unawares.

I DO want to change my own perception so I was looking for a little help with ideas of a possible direction to move my focus away from what I see as my own petty tyrant. It almost feels like it's a mental block but as it's emotionally charged, it's one I definitely need to understand and address. If you've ever encountered such a block and knew what you were facing, what direction did you go that helped you through it? Where did you end up in your work that you didn't see yourself being in at the time you first changed that direction?

 

[ryu]

I may be completly off, but your main point of contention is the religious system itself isn't it? Maybe the disgust comes from the "dark side of organised religion", which is a rigid control of speech and thoughts with repression of those who disagree. I don't know you, but if you are free-spirited, you're the kind of person who has a natural revulsion to any form of centralised authority. So, if that's the problem, you can take the issue like this: take what seems genuine, what calls to you from the religion in question and leave the rest. There is both good and bad in organised religions, it's up to us separate the good and the bad.

As for the others, it's hard to tell what they believe in without knowing them very well. Our relationship to religion and God is something intimate. People see the world is becoming mad and it's natural they want to find shelter. All branches of Christianity are flawed in one way or the other, but it has a few things going for itself. It advocates compassion, love, decency, charity, family values, the protection of those who are vulnerable and the sanctity of life. Those values are being attacked and people want to defend them, so they will logically defend the institutions who advocate those values. So I'm not sure it's always out of cowardise or malice if you see individuals proning christian values all of a sudden.

And as for quoting the Bible. Most of us on the forum are some kind of westerners, that's why the reference is not Buddhism or chamanism. We all have heard the stories of Jesus and Moses, because these stories are one of the pillar on which our societies were built. These stories and the wisdom they hold are easily understood because most of us have the frame of reference. It's a common heritage we use to understand life lessons.

I hope it will help.

 

[Jones]

I think there's good information to be gained in the wake of all the craziness going on, especially on how to navigate through the propaganda with an emotionally detached mind so that when the need arises, you can stand your ground and clearly articulate why you are against the mob mentalities. Knowledge protects and I would like to be as well protected as I can because this insanity is only going to get worse. Discerning key points in the many discussions of our current state of affairs is full time job as many companies that you're probably associated with (such as job/corporation, health insurance, doctors in general) are changing their policies as a result of it and it's best not to be caught unawares.

I DO want to change my own perception so I was looking for a little help with ideas of a possible direction to move my focus away from what I see as my own petty tyrant. It almost feels like it's a mental block but as it's emotionally charged, it's one I definitely need to understand and address. If you've ever encountered such a block and knew what you were facing, what direction did you go that helped you through it? Where did you end up in your work that you didn't see yourself being in at the time you first changed that direction?

Perhaps your answer is there in addressing the emotional charges. Perhaps this thread will help.

The Usefulness of the Negative Half of the Emotional Center

A couple of posts have prompted me to share this exchange from QFS today. In this thread: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=7180.msg50810#msg50810 Well it's not Peru, but I think it is definitively related. Though I'm not so thrilled like guys in studio! I've even got this knot...

cassiopaea.org

 

[Ben]

People claim to be things they're not all the time out of convenience. Determining whether they're "fake" or not isn't the point. I understand the basic need to want to believe in something or to belong to a group for community aspects, but after that it splits off in too many directions for the current discussion and is moving away from what I'm trying to learn.

I think there's good information to be gained in the wake of all the craziness going on, especially on how to navigate through the propaganda with an emotionally detached mind so that when the need arises, you can stand your ground and clearly articulate why you are against the mob mentalities. Knowledge protects and I would like to be as well protected as I can because this insanity is only going to get worse. Discerning key points in the many discussions of our current state of affairs is full time job as many companies that you're probably associated with (such as job/corporation, health insurance, doctors in general) are changing their policies as a result of it and it's best not to be caught unawares.

I DO want to change my own perception so I was looking for a little help with ideas of a possible direction to move my focus away from what I see as my own petty tyrant. It almost feels like it's a mental block but as it's emotionally charged, it's one I definitely need to understand and address. If you've ever encountered such a block and knew what you were facing, what direction did you go that helped you through it? Where did you end up in your work that you didn't see yourself being in at the time you first changed that direction?

On the specific topic you have raised, there are many forum threads discussing the journey that this group has taken exploring what is of value in the Christian tradition. It is complex, the history and texts associated with it have been altered and corrupted repeatedly. Like much of our history its origins are hidden from us. The religious institutions resulting from that process are also complex and used by pathological people like almost everything else in society. Have you thought about reading Laura's book - From Paul to Mark: Palaeochristianity?

 

[Ryan]

People claim to be things they're not all the time out of convenience. Determining whether they're "fake" or not isn't the point. I understand the basic need to want to believe in something or to belong to a group for community aspects, but after that it splits off in too many directions for the current discussion and is moving away from what I'm trying to learn.

What exactly are you trying to learn? Can you state it in a simple sentence? Your posts come across more as being annoyed about people's hypocrisy of certain kinds, and while understandable, doesn't really present as a request for information.

On the other hand, if your expression of annoyance is itself an indirect request for how to deal with that annoyance, then Jones' post above about the value of negative emotions in the Work is probably something you should prioritise reading. It will help you deal not only with annoyances regarding people's hypocrisy, but with annoyances in general and in this way, covid vax propaganda, gender nonsense and religious fundamentalism become useful and profitable sources of joy and humour.

 

[ki77ies]

Let me start here -

I may be completly off, but your main point of contention is the religious system itself isn't it? Maybe the disgust comes from the "dark side of organised religion", which is a rigid control of speech and thoughts with repression of those who disagree. I don't know you, but if you are free-spirited, you're the kind of person who has a natural revulsion to any form of centralised authority. So, if that's the problem, you can take the issue like this: take what seems genuine, what calls to you from the religion in question and leave the rest. There is both good and bad in organised religions, it's up to us separate the good and the bad.

It could be, but from my experience of going to Catholic school the first 8 school years of my life, going to different churches with friends thoughout my high school years and living in an area that has about 3 churches every square mile, it really comes down to the people and how they act. There's probably even more than that with the differences of the denominations but in general, I saw more compassion from those that were less fortunate and in smaller communities than the larger, more Christian type churches in which I have more exposure to. At least half of the latter are pretty self righteous and walk around (or drive, unfortunately) with an air of superiority. Now this is not just observation; This is direct interaction over many years with these types. And to take it one step further in the lines of compassion - some of the most heart warming people in the religious sect are the ones that don't go to church as they are the more "teach you to fish" instead of giving you fish, type.

Those values are being attacked and people want to defend them, so they will logically defend the institutions who advocate those values. So I'm not sure it's always out of cowardise or malice if you see individuals proning christian values all of a sudden.

Values are subjective to the individual as you can see if you've ever come across someone saying "god made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve". Picking and choosing a value that suits a situation and distorting it to a personal level is again, why I fault the individual more than the institution. (The institution itself is inherently flawed and it could be argued that it was intentional by the PTB or that it was the nature of STS humans that distorted the original information that was supposed to be passed down - probably both.)

Perhaps your answer is there in addressing the emotional charges. Perhaps this thread will help.

The Usefulness of the Negative Half of the Emotional Center

A couple of posts have prompted me to share this exchange from QFS today. In this thread: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=7180.msg50810#msg50810 Well it's not Peru, but I think it is definitively related. Though I'm not so thrilled like guys in studio! I've even got this knot...

cassiopaea.org

Good reading. Going through the first page I already have so much to say. I do see how anger can be useful and I always found it interesting that when Laura or others have spoken about abduction scenarios, the more you fight and angrier you are, the less likely they are to take you. There's also a point where I know I need to step away from it all and one way I've done that is by going through another thread that I haven't read in many, many years, about OP's. It's a good refresher, and the thread you linked will definitely be read and thought about, too. Thank you.

It is complex, the history and texts associated with it have been altered and corrupted repeatedly. Like much of our history its origins are hidden from us. The religious institutions resulting from that process are also complex and used by pathological people like almost everything else in society. Have you thought about reading Laura's book - From Paul to Mark: Palaeochristianity?

This is what I was inferring to in the above response to Ryu.
I certainly don't feel like I'm in the head space to read the letters from Paul, although I did see it and may eventually get around to it out of sheer curiosity.

Thank you for responses.

 

[Hesper]

I'm trying to get past this and I REALLY don't know how. I feel that it's starting to become a block to my progress in learning and maybe it always was, but it's more prevalent now. I simply do not understand where religious people come from, especially when they're only "religious by association", i.e. not knowing anything different or even wanting to accept a more simple, spiritual perception.

It sounds like you have a definition of religion that is rooted in negative experiences. I think most people have this, because modern religion is a corpse. To paraphrase what Gurdjieff once said, the best way to lose your faith is to make friends with a priest.

If you want to understand PaleoChristianity I think it will help to read Laura's latest work From Paul to Mark. There are also numerous threads on the forum regarding this, and a website that outlines the shared values.

Ultimately this forum exists due to a collective search for Truth, which only really exists via the soul's need for Truth. Both are best protected and honored with proper religion.

 

[Princess Lux 🌷]

I am not sure if this is something that will provide value to you yet this seemed to ground me when it comes to dealing with people and with myself. I remind myself that at the end of the day, even with whatever grand agenda we strive to, we are still humans after all. It helps with my own frustrations and exercises grace not only on other's but more importantly to my own journey.

Just my two cents.

 

[T.C.]

It sounds like there's a few different issues involved for you, some more significant than others?

There's your understanding and attitude towards:

1) The Work.

2) Christianity specifically.

3) Religion in general.

4) The forum.

5) What's going on in the world and how to interpret and navigate it.

The Work

The two main people who brought the knowledge and teachings of what we call the Work - which you mention in the title of the thread in some sort of opposition to religion - were Gurdjieff and Mouravieff. Both of them said that The Work was "Esoteric Christianity". So saying there's an unnecessary religious bias in the Work here is like saying there's an unnecessary bias towards numbers in a maths class.

Christianity

Through modern linguistic analysis of the letters of Paul, it has been shown that what he was doing and teaching was The Work. That which we call Esoteric Christianity is at its root, just Christianity - real Christianity. The religious, initiatory experience that he had, and that it seems many of those he was writing his letters to also had, was the experience of waking up to the truth about themselves and the reality they inhabited, and learning to see beyond the surface of material existence, into the deeper reality ours is rooted in and projected from, from where things really manifest and from where our realm is really controlled.

Religion in General

The C's said that life itself is religion. In the Cassiopaean model, about 50% of people experience life as a religious experience, rich with meaning and a felt connection to a deeper reality which exists but cannot be seen with the eyes, and who have a propensity towards understanding their existence and the meaning of it and don't need an external policeman to tell them what to do or how to feel. The other 50% just experience it as a more meaningless, material, nuts and bolts result of a mechanical and physical evolutionary process, who feel no need to understand their situation or derive meaning from what is happening to them specifically or the world in general, and who lean more towards following external authority figures who tell them what to do and how to feel.

The purpose of the mainstream religions has basically been to create an authoritarian system for the 50% who need an external authority figure to tell them what to do, with a spiritual/mystical system to catch and hook the 50% who know there is something more to reality.

The Forum

The forum has always functioned in the same way as Paul's congregations were meant to function. That those here are working together to wake up to the truth about themselves and the world, learn to read the signs of what's going on at the higher/deeper level of reality, to see the unseen, and use this deeper knowledge in order to navigate our reality in as safe and effective a way as possible, avoiding the traps of our 3rd density existence. And so, the forum, and those who are working to live by its principles, really is a Christian organisation by the definition I gave of Christianity above. This is why the overarching structure of the organisation became what we call The Fellowship of the Cosmic Mind, whose stated religion is Paleochristianity.

What's going on in the World

As far as most of us are concerned, what we are facing in the present time is a theological drama of such seriousness that only religious language comes close to explaining. Terms such as 'good', 'evil', 'satanic' etc are not used dogmatically, but technically, to describe the nature of the dynamics which are currently playing out all around us.

Conclusion

What does it mean to be religious? As you have pretty much stated yourself through your descriptions of your experiences, some people are part of a religious group, who really aren't very religious at all. Others are hardly involved in a religious group at all, yet display the traits of a person who is living a religious way of life and holds religious values.

You say you don't understand religious people. I think you would benefit from changing your understanding of the term 'religion', and then looking at those people who you previously defined as 'religious' and asking yourself if that's what they actually are.

Religion is not about following a set of externally imposed rules and explanations about life. Religion is how one experiences life and relates to themselves, others, and the universe. It's about living one's life according to what one feels deep inside, and according to what one sees as true and real about the world and our reality, which also leads to the understanding that there are others who feel the same way, see the same things, have the same aims, and that the more these people come together, interact, and work together, the stronger they become, the better influence they can have on their own lives and the lives of those around them.

 

[ki77ies]

To start off, I again, thank you again for your replies of effort with my conundrum, if you will.

I never would've continued reading as much as I did, 15yrs ago in the Wave, Adventures and more if I had seen that it had underlying religious connotations. There have been numerous examples where the C's have mentioned that there was a "gloss" put on certain truths, such as a "biblical gloss", and when referencing the Ra Material, it was stated to have been "tainted" with bias, that being a religious bias, so the messages didn't come across as clearly as they could have.

It's not solely the experiences, as I have had those as a result of trying to find a "fit" for how I feel in my spiritual perception of the world/universe that I'm a part of. I've read a lot of other religions to see if there was something that "clicked" in my being and I have realized that I never will find or have the kind of faith that other responders on this thread or the 50% have found. If I have to choose a label, it would be agnostic. I find it undeniable that there's a force flowing throughout the universe and within us and everything around us, but I also find it undeniable that there isn't a monotheistic type of deity to praise, worship or ask help from.
The C's said, "we are the way for the Universe to know itself". While that's probably not just for humans, it exemplifies everything that has always felt "right" for me.

If there's anything that's piqued my interest more about religion, it's about it's origins. I'll expound more of that in my individual responses, if that's ok.

If you want to understand PaleoChristianity I think it will help to read Laura's latest work From Paul to Mark. There are also numerous threads on the forum regarding this, and a website that outlines the shared values.

I never said that I wanted to understand "paleo"Christianity. I said I would probably read it out of sheer curiosity b/c the directions that Laura goes in her work has always kept me interested, if for no other reason than to satiate my question of WHY?

Ultimately this forum exists due to a collective search for Truth, which only really exists via the soul's need for Truth. Both are best protected and honored with proper religion.

What?? Please explain the emphasized portion.

The two main people who brought the knowledge and teachings of what we call the Work - which you mention in the title of the thread in some sort of opposition to religion - were Gurdjieff and Mouravieff. Both of them said that The Work was "Esoteric Christianity". So saying there's an unnecessary religious bias in the Work here is like saying there's an unnecessary bias towards numbers in a maths class.

Like others have stated, the majority here are of an area of the world where Christianity is dominant. From what I have surmised, they were of the same faith and wanted to broaden their horizons within a practice that could reach the most amount of people. It is, by far, the most forced upon religion that I've ever read about. (I can only witness statistics and what I read, not what I see.) Thankfully, there are many small parts of the world that keep their traditional spirituality, such as Shintoism, that has much deeper roots than monotheistic religions will ever have.

The Forum

The forum has always functioned in the same way as Paul's congregations were meant to function. That those here are working together to wake up to the truth about themselves and the world, learn to read the signs of what's going on at the higher/deeper level of reality, to see the unseen, and use this deeper knowledge in order to navigate our reality in as safe and effective a way as possible, avoiding the traps of our 3rd density existence. And so, the forum, and those who are working to live by its principles, really is a Christian organisation by the definition I gave of Christianity above. This is why the overarching structure of the organisation became what we call The Fellowship of the Cosmic Mind, whose stated religion is Paleochristianity.

The former part of this is why I've always stuck to the original series of works/books and how I have ultimately tried to live my life, although that wasn't much different than how it was from the start, with the STS caveats installed. I've always sought the truth in all things and religion is one that is the hardest to understand. You see, every fiber of my being tells me there is no singular OR plural deity to pray to or worship. I never had that moment of "blind faith" or even saw the "light" in those 8yrs of schooling and going to church twice a week. If anything, I was left more confused than ever.
It is awfully lonely in my position to try and get a little help from other truth seekers that are pointing me towards the one thing that I'm actively trying to avoid. I've already stated that I'm going to read through it out of sheer curiosities sake, but the pressure from multiple people is exactly why I hate religion itself.

So, if The Work is really a "Christian Organization", please make sure that it's well understood as I have chosen the wrong time (and place) to try and network. To see that is incredibly disappointing and depressing b/c years ago, it wasn't so biased.


Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself and jumping to conclusions. Maybe it would help if you explained what you have found in these "paleo" and "christian" terms that keeps you on your path.

 

[mkrnhr]

Hi ki77ies,
If I'm not mistaken, I think you issue is with the use of the term "Christian" is Paleo-Christianity and what that term may imply. I think I can understand the confusion since you assume that there is a deity to be worshiped for instance. There isn't. You see, I come from a atheo-Judeo-Islamic background so to speak, so "Christian" doesn't have the same connotation to me as it has to someone who has been around so-called Christians and Christian organizations. Yes there is a spiritual reality and an ultimate Truth but it is quite different from the usual big dude sitting on a throne in the clouds and whatnot. I think people proposed having a look at the paleo-christianity document to see that it is quite different than a Christian organization. For instance, you will read something along the lines of "Religion is good, religions (including Christianity and Christianities) are bad". I think you re projecting what you view as Christianity to something that is beyond that, which can be understandable. If you agree with the spirit of The Wave, the approach to "life, the universe, and everything" as it appears through the sessions and the different discussions in the forum, then there is no difference with "paleo-christianity". Of course you are free to look at it further or not.
Hope it helps.

 

[Hesper]

What?? Please explain the emphasized portion.

Sure. If something is considered sacred then people honor it and it brings them together.

I would say that most, if not all, truth seekers I have met have considered what they do to have an intrinsic value that people would consider sacred. Whether it was exposing the lies of people in power, helping people heal, making discoveries that improve the lives of those around them, etc. And of course most of those people are well aware that their work is not considered sacred at all - in fact most of the time it's completely the opposite. These days it's more dangerous than ever.

Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself and jumping to conclusions.

That's possible, but it's up to you. It makes no sense to take on board something that you find repulsive, or haven't thoroughly vetted. That's why we've recommended the literature, because others have invested decades into understanding and explaining these concepts and the related, tangled history. It's a deep dive and, as usual, there is no free lunch.

But if you think you're the first person to have this same repulsion rest assured you are not! That's why this research exists.

So, I don't think anyone here is trying to point you towards anything except for answers to your questions. Here's to hoping that you find them.