The Psychopathic God: Adolf Hitler

msante

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
It is a bad example to compare because I understood what he was saying but my line of thinking was if ideology influences inherent ideals in individuals it has to have those ideals as a base in itself (but them being wrapped in lies like good misinformation)because how it is going to influence individuals if there is no resonance...

Corvus, perhaps you (like many others) joined this forum because you found the topics discussed here interesting, you resonated with much of the information shared, and because you have an aspect of yourself that is curious and eager to better understand the world around you. At the same time, I can assume that another aspect of you is attacking this exploratory and adventurous part of yourself, since instead of embarking on an open dialogue where ideas are exchanged and we all have the opportunity to learn from this exchange, you have dedicated yourself to maintaining a combative, provocative and insulting discourse, in other words, this part of you is trying to win the debate and not learn from it.

These ambiguities and contradictions exist at different levels within each of us. That is what we are, beings who can have the highest ideals, and at the same time succumb to the most pathetic lies. And that is what we try to avoid and learn by participating in this forum, to make ourselves less vulnerable to lies (our own and external). You should not forget that we are all STS in this phase of existence.

Leaving aside pathological subjects, there is what we might call average people who are not essentially evil, but who, either because of their degree of individual development, their experiences, and/or their Knowledge, despite being attracted to altruistic ideals, may be seduced into believing that in order to achieve those ideals one must behave in a certain way (some form of active militancy, attacking "enemies" of their cause, etc.). Look, for example, at the activists who are harassing and assaulting Trump government officials. Many of them may be genuinely concerned about children separated from their parents, and may be mobilized (at least in part) by a genuine desire for justice. Many of these subjects, when they become part of a collective that strongly identifies with an ideology, can do things that they themselves would reprove or at least hesitate to do in a less contaminated context.

A good number of human beings have consciousness, the underlying question (and what can make the difference) may be how sleepy this consciousness is. Lobaczewski says:
Human nature requires overcompensating infamous acts with a halo of mysticism that manages to silence one's own moral conscience and, in turn, elude conscious detection and critical faculties, whether one's own or others'.

This suggests that there is something inherently human that would potentially allow us to challenge the lie and observe reality more objectively, and that this "something" must be manipulated, numbed, or deceived, in order for the human being to behave in an infamous way.

Lobaczewski also says that in a ponogenic process a kind of stratification of the ideology is produced, leaving an external layer closer to the foundational ideas of the ideology, and a more internal and hermetic layer with the ponogenic content. The average person succumbs to the suggestive insinuations of the first stratum, while people with psychological disorders immediately perceive the second stratum as attractive and important. Maybe these seconds fit better into the idea you seem to have, but you shouldn't forget that most people belong to the first group.
 

genero81

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Who is Cathy Newman? Respect is earned not given, but you are maybe right, keyboard warrior, maybe it is not for me, I ve done my part in this world.

(I wrote this last night but I was going blurry eyed as it was after midnight. But also I was thinking; take Laura's suggestion! This discussion is covered well by Lobaczewski.)

What does that mean? Ideologies get ponerized. People lie to themselves. You can't assume that they are embracing something that will lead to disastrous consequences with full recognition. This is the land of wishful thinking. The school of hard knocks especially when you factor in deviants/ psychopaths and 4D STS manipulation. There's no one size fits all.

We are finding some of the puzzle pieces thanks to Laura mostly. But we have a long way to go, I think. But you've done your part?
 

Martina

Jedi Master
I haven't read the book. I studied totalitarian regimes on college and I've read Lobaczewsky and introduced students from the class with his book few years ago.
I think it's time to take everything flammable out of a house. I'm generally speaking, I know most of you are objective more than me:-). I have still some utopian traces hidden and pushy stuff which leads me to what happened this saturday, I was forcing my son to go out with me to the river, because water level was low (up to knees) and my son fell into a giant sinkhole few meters away from the coast and forgat how to swimm from fear so I had to swimm like hell, the current was really strong, and people were staring at us, it was just bizarre and dangerous. Kid didn't drank the water, he's ok but it's my fault. I swear I will never ever ever force anything again!!! I think that's great example what not to do. I'm the worst (fascist) mom ever!
 

Hi_Henry

Jedi Council Member
I was forcing my son to go out with me to the river, because water level was low (up to knees) and my son fell into a giant sinkhole few meters away from the coast and forgat how to swimm from fear so I had to swimm like hell, the current was really strong, and people were staring at us, it was just bizarre and dangerous. Kid didn't drank the water, he's ok but it's my fault. I swear I will never ever ever force anything again!!! I think that's great example what not to do. I'm the worst (fascist) mom ever!
Anywhere where water moves in and also moves out you have a huge potential for disaster when stepping on places where the water was or is present. This is especially true of places where there are tides. The moving out of the tide draws the water out from the sandy bottom creating a vacuum effect. When this happens it is "A loaded trap".
Have a look,
Trapped
Stuck 1
Stuck 2
 

Corvus

Jedi Council Member
In "the psychopathic god -adolf hitler" (did you read it?), the author explains why german people believed in Hitler : he really wanted to save the economy, to give social equalities, etc ; he really saw himself as a savior (we can say a SJW). What have collapsed such ideals is that he and the Party's aspirations have fallen into ideology, they moved away objective reality, they've been blinded by false ideas (race superiority -see the recommended book "Race" from V. Sarich), by paranoia (russia will invade us). Exactly the same thing happens today in USA.

Then I was wrong, I started reading the book yesterday, but I am having some family and personal problems. My father ended in hospital with heavy blood poisoning and the situation is critical wich could have been avoided if all was not about profit and saving money in health area. I am in emotional turmoil.
 

Meg

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Then I was wrong, I started reading the book yesterday, but I am having some family and personal problems. My father ended in hospital with heavy blood poisoning and the situation is critical wich could have been avoided if all was not about profit and saving money in health area. I am in emotional turmoil.

So sorry to hear about your father, Corvus. I am wishing for the best outcome for him. Take care of yourself :hug2:
 

3DStudent

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I'm sorry to hear that Corvus. I too have recently had some issues and illness in the family. Hang in there and take care. :hug2:
 

annp

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Sorry to hear about your father, Corvus. Hope he is improving - do keep us updated on his progress and perhaps start a thread discussing your family issues if you feel it would help. :hug2:

I think the collective insanity and the increasingly erratic / extreme weather is affecting everyone. Timely reminder for us all to redouble efforts to be aware and take good care of ourselves.
 

100c

Padawan Learner
I could not continue reading past the first few pages of this book. The author basically declared Hitler to be the mastermind behind the Nazi party and the rise of Germany. He also ignored the real reason why the Germans loved him. All rulers are puppets, especially Adolph Hitler. The official history of the rise of the Nazi party is too full of holes. No book about Hitler that fails to acknowledge this is a waste of time to read.
 

mkrnhr

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
No book about Hitler that fails to acknowledge this is a waste of time to read.
I think the way this sentence is written doesn't convey what you wanted to say.

Usually, books are not totally perfect. There may be some weaknesses in some part and interesting things in another part, without having one invalidating the other. Also, there is a possibility that the writer, not really wanting to create a controversy on a side issue repeats the general consensus before getting to the main subject. The subject of the book is not the political manoeuvring around Hitler, but why it was him and how. OSIT
 

Turgon

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
I could not continue reading past the first few pages of this book. The author basically declared Hitler to be the mastermind behind the Nazi party and the rise of Germany. He also ignored the real reason why the Germans loved him. All rulers are puppets, especially Adolph Hitler. The official history of the rise of the Nazi party is too full of holes. No book about Hitler that fails to acknowledge this is a waste of time to read.

The book did acknowledge and go into some detail underlying the cultural atmosphere in Germany that set the stage for someone like Hitler to come into power and how he piggy-backed off of what was already percolating in the German people, this sort of search and yearning for a 'fuhrer' or great leader to bring glory back to the Rhineland, especially after the loss of WW1, which he capitalized on for his own gain. Although that was later on in the book. I'm not sure if it was a deep enough look into that, but I found it revealing, and considering I just read Caesar's Gallic war where he describes the way of life of Germanic tribes, it seems like there was some fundamental urge for warfare dating back thousands of years that was still present in latent form in the German people when Hitler rose to power, OSIT.
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
I could not continue reading past the first few pages of this book. The author basically declared Hitler to be the mastermind behind the Nazi party and the rise of Germany. He also ignored the real reason why the Germans loved him. All rulers are puppets, especially Adolph Hitler. The official history of the rise of the Nazi party is too full of holes. No book about Hitler that fails to acknowledge this is a waste of time to read.

Too bad you are so close-minded and unable to evaluate a book based on the context of the author, time and place; you are missing a very valuable chunk of data/information. Of all the books I've read about Hitler, even if I don't agree with the author's conclusions, this one is in the top 3 or 4.
 

loreta

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I could not continue reading past the first few pages of this book. The author basically declared Hitler to be the mastermind behind the Nazi party and the rise of Germany. He also ignored the real reason why the Germans loved him. All rulers are puppets, especially Adolph Hitler. The official history of the rise of the Nazi party is too full of holes. No book about Hitler that fails to acknowledge this is a waste of time to read.


We can never say: this book is a waste of time, under my humble point of vue. We can decided that this book is not for me now, this is not the good moment to read it, etc. Every book has something to tell us, in the good moment. Try to put it aside and maybe one day you will read it again with new eyes. And concerning a historical moment, we need to read many many versions of this moment, from different point of vue, different perspectives, different historians to have a little idea of what happened. The interesting thing also is to listen to the historian, what he has to tell us and start a dialogue with him, in a sort of way. Official or not official version. At the end we decide also what to read and how to read.
 

100c

Padawan Learner
I think the way this sentence is written doesn't convey what you wanted to say.

Thanks for the cordial reply. I am sure the book contains valuable information and would not be a waste of time for some other people. I accept the risk of not encountering the information already. Just sharing my personal filter. There are too many books about Hitler and WWII to read them all.
 
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