THE ONCE AND FUTURE SKY GOD? – From Göbekli Tepe to The Zodiac – and Beyond…

[brandon]

Super interesting find, Polperro! Though my thought is if such sound technology can be used for healing then it can probably also be used in a detrimental way, or, e.g. to produce altered states of perception, intense emotions, etc.. (as in, maybe that would fit more with Michael's ideas about Gobekli Tepe? Though I guess also healing could be used for the same purposes of control, i.e., "look at this miracle, we are all powerful...")

 

[Polperro]

Super interesting find, Polperro! Though my thought is if such sound technology can be used for healing then it can probably also be used in a detrimental way, or, e.g. to produce altered states of perception, intense emotions, etc.. (as in, maybe that would fit more with Michael's ideas about Gobekli Tepe? Though I guess also healing could be used for the same purposes of control, i.e., "look at this miracle, we are all powerful...")

yeah absolutely and certainly a great point, a wicked intention in whatever guise fits Michael’s narrative and perhaps the pestles were filled in that number to cleanse the evil found within the site when buried? but then why bury and not destroy? I’m not sure if thats conclusive enough for me.

I‘m trying to get a clearer idea of the players at play during this time, especially as I’m newer to this site, and the secret societies is a huge link for that, any extra info or guide would be appreciated, I think thats why I found the timeline so useful.

 

[brandon]

yeah absolutely and certainly a great point, a wicked intention in whatever guise fits Michael’s narrative and perhaps the pestles were filled in that number to cleanse the evil found within the site when buried? but then why bury and not destroy? I’m not sure if thats conclusive enough for me.

I‘m trying to get a clearer idea of the players at play during this time, especially as I’m newer to this site, and the secret societies is a huge link for that, any extra info or guide would be appreciated, I think thats why I found the timeline so useful.

Yeah I have no idea, very much not a scholar on this topic, though I also found this thread utterly fascinating. What I'd heard on some podcasts I listened to was (what I assume is a more prevailing theory, sort of the opposite of this thread) that the place was buried to preserve it from a coming cataclysm, rather than to hide something terrible... Dunno!

Oh and hey, welcome to the forum! Would you care to write an intro post (over in this section: https://cassiopaea.org/forum/boards/newbies-important-notices-to-all-members.39/ )? Let us know how you found the place and a bit about yourself - whatever you feel comfy with. Love hearing what lead people here :)

 

[BHelmet]

What I'd heard on some podcasts I listened to was ….that the place was buried to preserve it from a coming cataclysm, rather than to hide something terrible... Dunno!

How about the place was buried BY the cataclysm?

 

[Michael B-C]

Michael this has been a phenomenal read!

Incredibly researched and well structured. This should be a book.

I am enthusiastic to read more if ever you get the time! The ideas and notes I’ve taken have given me some brilliant leads, I stumbled upon this website only in the last year or so, whilst conducting my own personal research, I’ve been hoping to find such detailed analysis and counter argument to the current Gobekli theory.

I would love to bring up your research upon the mortars and pestles you mentioned found at the site,

In regard to the Mortars and Pestles found at Gobekli Tepe, you reasoned “It is my suggestion therefore, that these mortars were ritual gifts or temple dues”. Which is a fair assessment considering the seeds and grains found, but to add an extra layer…

now I was fortunate enough to recently stumble upon the session below regarding pestles….

Session 20 September 2014​

Pierre) I have another question if we can change topic. There is this French scientist who discovered those Paleolithic pestles made of rock. For decades they thought they were used to crush seeds or whatever. By chance, he dropped one - and he's a musician - and he found that it sounded good when it hit the ground. So, he started to analyze all these pestles. He found that each of them was tuned. Each of them generated a perfect note. Now their hypothesis is that the pestles weren't pestles, but a musical instrument. Are these pestles only used as musical instruments?

A: No, not even close. Healing tones produced when struck in correct sequence and combination.

Q: (Pierre) So it means some kind of music? Perfect tunes? If you play the right notes in the right sequence... And the right combination... Music can be healing.

A: Important that the tone is accompanied by subtones and frequencies that are natural to the stone and "speak" to the cells in the body.

Q: (L) So I guess you can't just play the music.

(Pierre) No, it's more elaborate than that. But it means a great amount of knowledge...

A: Notice the specific stones chosen for Stonehenge.

Q: (Perceval) What are they made of?

(L) Blue stones, and something else... Several kinds. Alright. Next?

This could signify that Gobekli tepe was as much a Healing Center as anything else using the Pestles as instruments? and although purely philosophising while writing here, if we consider this to be frequency healing then could this have a potential reason for shape of structure of Gobekli tepe, although not sharing characteristics of the Barabar caves in structure, the common theme being frequency regulation and of course stone manipulation.

also, I believe the sister site at Karahan tepe would have been the exact same. I certainly conquer that Karahan tepe would have been water based, which only adds to the theory as water can have a big effect on vibration/frequency strength, gaining up to 4 times the strength of signal of sound wave and this would even lead into the world of the Japanese hado water therapies.

So perhaps Gobekli Tepe is the medicinal chamber?

Thanks again for such an amazing study, and the timeline was hugely beneficial!

A very interesting find and thought Polperro. I appreciate I am out on a limb by suggesting this site was not the happy-clappy place that most others seem to think, but that doesn't mean that dance, sound, music and other forms of ritual obedience were not an intrinsic part of its hold on those who attended over the many centuries of its operation.

My working hypothesis is that the control exerted over the new populations emerging post the cataclysms of the Younger Dryas was a complex form of PSYOP in which only perhaps a very few of the inner sanctum knew or understood its real purpose. It must therefore have had a tremendous pull on the people who attended as well as utilizing all forms of disinformation and public displays of benevolence to convince that it's operators held all the answer and strict adherence was a necessary way of gaining access to this 'magic, power. So cakes and circuses - with plenty of cake to get them to buy the circus. Note that the C's session relates to the finds of a French scientist but not the location he was talking about with regard to healing powers of these stone pestles and mortars. I suspect this may have related to objects found much further north, perhaps somewhere in Europe during the Neolithic, and not to such early items from the south east of Anatolia and the PPNA many, many millennia before.

This brings us back to the issue of the people of the circle (STO) and the people of the pyramid (STS), a form of north/south divide, and the inherently different way different cultures used nature's 'magic' powers and resource (which themselves are of course neutral). It is worth noting that although these sites began as circular, (as if co-opting and older religion), they rapidly began to develop rectangular shaped buildings by preference, never before seen anywhere else. A number of these buildings such as one at Nevalı Çori, north west of GT, was found to contain strong evidence for human sacrifice within a rectangular building design that would be very reminiscent of secret society style constructions. Though no blood traces have been found (or perhaps even looked for), a number of sunken basins close to the central pillars in enclosures at GT and KT have been acknowledged, with channels running directly to them from the base of the central pillars. I strongly suspect these were most likely for blood offerings - animal and maybe even human.

Another thing that no one has answered is how and why did the people there develop basically impenetrable, impermeable concrete floors for all the sites? The technology itself is astonishing enough for the time - but it is the issue of why they did this that really catches my attention. For me, the most logical answer is to stop the copious amount of blood and remains from permanently staining the floor and rendering it unusable by humans (a quick sloosh and a scrub and its as new). I have seen no other theory make sense of the extraordinary efforts required to achieve the finish they did.

I would remind that a close study of GT and KT and the other sites reveals one essential unifying ideological feature - that fear, aggression and raw natural power were the predominant and preeminent forms of iconographic expression. I do not see these as being signs of a culture that had healing at its core. But yes I do see the likely use of all kinds of manipulation - and getting people to become aware of a high level of fear before offering them ritual means to 'heal' themselves of this terrified state, that I can see. In other words, 'our magic is the only form that will keep you safe, so clang your pestles and mortars and sing along to hymn number 666!'

In passing, I've been very struck by the section in Dr Iain McGilchrist's 'The Master and His Emissary' in which he lays out a very sound thesis that on the basis of evidence, it is highly likely we sang to communicate (right brain activity) way before we formed verbal language (primarily a left brain activity). It makes me wonder is this was still the primary form of communication at this time - and maybe these elites were some of the very first using spoken word. It would have sure helped them sound as if they were unique 'gods'. Just a thought.

I still in essence think that GT etc were designed for the purpose of switching the people from a right to a left brain way of seeing the world.

 

[Michael B-C]

How about the place was buried BY the cataclysm?

The burial of the sites was indeed deliberate and ritually undertaken for whatever purpose BHelmet, that much is certain. This is clear from the very careful way in which various types of different stones, debris and different colored earths were collected from different areas and then layered like a sandwich to fill up to the top each of the circular enclosures, with specific large stones placed in very clear patterns surrounding the tops of certain pillars and features as if for future recognition (?) There has been some debate of late about this at GT where some academics now claim it was as a result of a series of earth slides off the hill above, but I find their conclusions weak (they were driven by utilitarian thinking) and dubious to say the least, especially as it is uniformly accepted that the burials at such places as KT were clearly structured and deliberate with no possible interference from the local topography.

Most bizarrely, 10,000 years later at a site in Northern Ireland called Eamhain Mhacha, a huge circular enclosure/building with a large number of post holes was first deliberately burnt to the ground then ritually filled in via near identical means before being buried beneath a huge man made hill! This site by the way was also a center of comet reverence, FWIW.

 

[Polperro]

A very interesting find and thought Polperro. I appreciate I am out on a limb by suggesting this site was not the happy-clappy place that most others seem to think, but that doesn't mean that dance, sound, music and other forms of ritual obedience were not an intrinsic part of its hold on those who attended over the many centuries of its operation.

My working hypothesis is that the control exerted over the new populations emerging post the cataclysms of the Younger Dryas was a complex form of PSYOP in which only perhaps a very few of the inner sanctum knew or understood its real purpose. It must therefore have had a tremendous pull on the people who attended as well as utilizing all forms of disinformation and public displays of benevolence to convince that it's operators held all the answer and strict adherence was a necessary way of gaining access to this 'magic, power. So cakes and circuses - with plenty of cake to get them to buy the circus. Note that the C's session relates to the finds of a French scientist but not the location he was talking about with regard to healing powers of these stone pestles and mortars. I suspect this may have related to objects found much further north, perhaps somewhere in Europe during the Neolithic, and not to such early items from the south east of Anatolia and the PPNA many, many millennia before.

This brings us back to the issue of the people of the circle (STO) and the people of the pyramid (STS), a form of north/south divide, and the inherently different way different cultures used nature's 'magic' powers and resource (which themselves are of course neutral). It is worth noting that although these sites began as circular, (as if co-opting and older religion), they rapidly began to develop rectangular shaped buildings by preference, never before seen anywhere else. A number of these buildings such as one at Nevalı Çori, north west of GT, was found to contain strong evidence for human sacrifice within a rectangular building design that would be very reminiscent of secret society style constructions. Though no blood traces have been found (or perhaps even looked for), a number of sunken basins close to the central pillars in enclosures at GT and KT have been acknowledged, with channels running directly to them from the base of the central pillars. I strongly suspect these were most likely for blood offerings - animal and maybe even human.

Another thing that no one has answered is how and why did the people there develop basically impenetrable, impermeable concrete floors for all the sites? The technology itself is astonishing enough for the time - but it is the issue of why they did this that really catches my attention. For me, the most logical answer is to stop the copious amount of blood and remains from permanently staining the floor and rendering it unusable by humans (a quick sloosh and a scrub and its as new). I have seen no other theory make sense of the extraordinary efforts required to achieve the finish they did.

I would remind that a close study of GT and KT and the other sites reveals one essential unifying ideological feature - that fear, aggression and raw natural power were the predominant and preeminent forms of iconographic expression. I do not see these as being signs of a culture that had healing at its core. But yes I do see the likely use of all kinds of manipulation - and getting people to become aware of a high level of fear before offering them ritual means to 'heal' themselves of this terrified state, that I can see. In other words, 'our magic is the only form that will keep you safe, so clang your pestles and mortars and sing along to hymn number 666!'

In passing, I've been very struck by the section in Dr Iain McGilchrist's 'The Master and His Emissary' in which he lays out a very sound thesis that on the basis of evidence, it is highly likely we sang to communicate (right brain activity) way before we formed verbal language (primarily a left brain activity). It makes me wonder is this was still the primary form of communication at this time - and maybe these elites were some of the very first using spoken word. It would have sure helped them sound as if they were unique 'gods'. Just a thought.

I still in essence think that GT etc were designed for the purpose of switching the people from a right to a left brain way of seeing the world.

Again, this just shows incredible attention and research to this subject! A very Interesting point regarding the concrete floors and channels indeed, I hadn’t considered or known! Your making a very good argument regarding the purpose of such sites and the intent from its makers and I can completely understand how that narrative is being written through your research and leading to your conclusions!

Ive ordered the secret societies book referenced if your study, seems like it will quickly become fundamental and I would be very intrigued to learn any other references or books that you may consider helpful or links to study material concerning your finds, just so I could dive that bit deeper in the right places?

 

[Michael B-C]

This brings us back to the issue of the people of the circle (STO) and the people of the pyramid (STS), a form of north/south divide, and the inherently different way different cultures used nature's 'magic' powers and resource (which themselves are of course neutral). It is worth noting that although these sites began as circular, (as if co-opting and older religion), they rapidly began to develop rectangular shaped buildings by preference, never before seen anywhere else. A number of these buildings such as one at Nevalı Çori, north west of GT, was found to contain strong evidence for human sacrifice within a rectangular building design that would be very reminiscent of secret society style constructions. Though no blood traces have been found (or perhaps even looked for), a number of sunken basins close to the central pillars in enclosures at GT and KT have been acknowledged, with channels running directly to them from the base of the central pillars. I strongly suspect these were most likely for blood offerings - animal and maybe even human.

Another thing that no one has answered is how and why did the people there develop basically impenetrable, impermeable concrete floors for all the sites? The technology itself is astonishing enough for the time - but it is the issue of why they did this that really catches my attention. For me, the most logical answer is to stop the copious amount of blood and remains from permanently staining the floor and rendering it unusable by humans (a quick sloosh and a scrub and its as new). I have seen no other theory make sense of the extraordinary efforts required to achieve the finish they did.

A quick correction to the above - I wrote in haste from memory without first digging back into my research notes - the building I was referring to that has been identified as having revealed traces of human sacrificial blood is actually at Çayönü Tepesi - whilst the building at Nevalı Çori has a concrete floor and rectangular design as well - but was sunk beneath a reservoir before any further tests for such remains could be done. But iI think you get the point - the concrete floors go with ritual buildings alone (they do not occur in what are called domestic dwellings).




The above give you some examples. Note in the top right picture the highlighted arrow - this points to a raised basin where the human blood was found. The bottom right shows you the state of the concrete now - still there in large sections more than 10,000 years later!

The floor is known as Terrazzo:

Archaeologists have adopted the term terrazzo to describe the floors of early neolithic buildings, 9,000–8,000 BC in Western Asia(Turkey). It was constructed of burnt lime and clay, colored red with ochreand polished. The embedded crushed limestone gives it a slightly mottled appearance.


The use of fire to produce burnt lime, which was also used for the hafting of implements. It predates production of fired pottery by almost a thousand years.


In the early Neolithic settlement of Cayönü in eastern Turkey. 90 m² of terrazzo floors have been unearthened. The floors of the settlement of Nevali Cori measure about 80 m². They are 15 cm thick and contain about 10–15% lime.

The building at Çayönü, known as the 'Skull Building' (due to the very large numbers of human skulls found there), has a remarkable and very precise inlaid double white line which baffles archeologists; you can see the layout in the top right hand picture and here's a close up of the actual finish:



It has been remarked that the buildings proportion and such factors as these brings to mind such later designs as Masonic lodges!

Anyway, at Karahan Tepe, the excavations are still being kept close to academics chests, but its clear to me from aerial drone photography that again we see Terrazzo flooring:



The floor is clearly laid on top of the bedrock with masonry beneath and with features like bins with smoothly finished rims (left) - there is also damage to the floor (right) that suggests some kind of liquid flow at some point or some other corrosive material that would not have so marked plain bedrock. There are other features there that again support the likelihood that this is another large Terrazzo floor.

 

[Michael B-C]

Ive ordered the secret societies book referenced if your study, seems like it will quickly become fundamental and I would be very intrigued to learn any other references or books that you may consider helpful or links to study material concerning your finds, just so I could dive that bit deeper in the right places?

To be honest Polperro, publicly available books worth reading on any of this material or sites are almost non existent. This is partly due to the very recent nature of many of these finds and also because major new digs keep revealing new things on an almost daily basis, so its still too early for an overview to be successfully and conclusively completed, I suspect..

My own research consisted of wading through hundreds of individual academic papers and specialist journals, videos, etc, piecing together as I went. Obviously my own thoughts on the matter are not in any way reflected in any of these materials. In the main the academics report the finds with virtually no conjecture concerning the many, many anomalies they report - and when they do it is always with multiple uniformity biases and hackneyed anthropological and social science tropes. In the main they seem happy just to accept that these are the natural developmental steps of hunter gatherers transforming to settlement on their road to farming. All good, so why question any of it!? Even mentions of the impact of the Younger Dryas invariably ignore any issue concerning cataclysm and concentrate on weather changes and their impact on the flora and fauna as if they were just par for the course. All normal, just a bit different in other words!

I expect there will be a flood of books from 'experts' soon - but I suspect they will be more of the same. Academics do not like radical theories or speculation at the best of times, but post Collins, Hancock and Sweatman, I think this will be doubly true. Plus there is a lot of prestige and money to be made by the happy-clappy story and I doubt anyone worth their while will rock that boat for sometime to come.

What I would say to you, however, is if you haven't yet read Laura's Secret History of the World series (including the works written with Pierre) including her 'Comets and The Horns of Moses', you should. They will give you way, way better grounding in the background to this subject that any other works available could. They don't specifically touch on this period - though Pierre does in his brilliant 'Cometary Encounters' - but the implications raised may help matters become much, much clearer. And I see you have ordered Hayden's 'The Power of Ritual in Prehistory', a book that has gone in to my personal top ten must reads - so between all these you will be getting somewhere.

I wish I could be more helpful!

 

[Mark7]

Thanks Michael for a very interesting series. It is indeed grim to try to imagine the society of the STS overlords and humans together. That society would probably seem grotesque indeed from our perspective. No playing Collingwood much either as there is just no record of the goings on around these secret societies. I have to wonder where exactly these STS guys came from, what they knew, and what they had access to.

Graham Hancock, in his "America Before" work, observed a repeated phenomena - how these various visitors would come into a primitive north or south American tribe, initiate a large project taking perhaps generations to build, and then leaving again for perhaps hunderes of years. It's like they only need to make a slight course correction in a 1000 year ship of state, as once things get going in a certain direction, things need only be guided minimally. That dynamic seems to have been in play at Gobekli Tepe as well.

 

[Voyageur]

It's like they only need to make a slight course correction in a 1000 year ship of state, as once things get going in a certain direction, things need only be guided minimally. That dynamic seems to have been in play at Gobekli Tepe as well.

Yes, one might think that only a few entities of some type need be there to take the locals in hand to create what is needed/demanded. The locals might well be in awe as all these structures are built by ways unknown to them, with ceremonies implemented for perhaps just the rarified few.

 

[Michael B-C]

Yes, one might think that only a few entities of some type need be there to take the locals in hand to create what is needed/demanded. The locals might well be in awe as all these structures are built by ways unknown to them, with ceremonies implemented for perhaps just the rarified few.

Absolutely Voyageur and Mark 7. One of the many fascinating matters covered in Hayden's book on Secret Societies is the way he outlines how a very small central cabal effectively hide within and also disguise their true purpose (which he defines as psychopathic, or at least sociopathic) via closed circles that permeate out from the center of the society to the level at which point the community is engaged. A need to know basis in other words. I had previously assumed this was a relatively modern concept finding its culmination in the Rhodes gang and the later developments of the deep state. But no, it appears this was the model right from the very start, way back when. He also shows in detail how these organizations within organizations subsumed first the shamanic, then the chiefly, and finally the kingly models into their control system as well as most interestingly proposing that once the merger with early state structures had occurred, they then morphed into officially sanctioned religions creating the perfect power union at the heart of what was effectively a huge resource/excess management business - with humans as the fodder.

As you read his work, you keep thinking of today and especially the creation of our world post 1947. It's straight out of the secret society A-Z manual. That's why those who blame say the CIA etc for something like the Kennedy assassination are missing a beat - they are merely the structure, the pawn, the host, in which the true drivers hide and feed. The rest is just window dressing and limited hangout. Nasty! But very clever. And it clearly works - because after 12,000 years plus, we are still playing catch up.

 

[Zod]

Subsequent to my previous comment in this thread, I figured out the purpose* of the Great Pyramid. This may shed light on Gobekli Tepe, by demonstrating that the YDE was cataclysmic (ocean slop), not impact, and thus GT was buried by nature, not by man.

* Search for "The Floating Coffer Theory"

 

[Voyageur]

As you read his work, you keep thinking of today and especially the creation of our world post 1947. It's straight out of the secret society A-Z manual. That's why those who blame say the CIA etc for something like the Kennedy assassination are missing a beat - they are merely the structure, the pawn, the host, in which the true drivers hide and feed. The rest is just window dressing and limited hangout. Nasty! But very clever. And it clearly works - because after 12,000 years plus, we are still playing catch up.

Yes, very clever - this grand trickster business in stone, reliefs and the stars. In trying to even catch up it seems to dredge up many formable deep historical/archaeological holes, with very obscure bottoms. Moreover, just when one thinks they may see something (as you say, much produced can offer up limited hangouts), it can leave many dangling strings. To make reasonable connections of it, of a part of it as can be seen through many in the academic community - book after book, one can further go off on tangents (by design, intentional or not).

When one comes back to let's say Laura's FPtoM, which spanned thousands of years (less 400 to 500 years added in) placed in our so called de facto biblical text record, look at the muddle that is to unravel, look what it reveals - to do so is dedication and persistent delving. Your work here pushes against the so far excepted seams of what has been presented to date, with still much to uncover. Fascinating stuff.

Going back to Göbekli Tepe, at one point you discussed Obsidian deposit sources and I had something come up in terms of a significant deposit, yet will have to dig it up (no pun intended) to properly respond. However, the deposits local is interesting date-wise, while possibly and ultimately the region's inhabitants (which you hinted at) may have drifted - influenced Göbekli Tepe. Wrote something on it yet I don't have it with me at the moment.

Keep up the good work.

 

[sid]

@Michael B-C , thank you very much for this research. I have just finished reading through it all which took a while given the depth and breadth of content. It was like reading a well researched history book in the same league as Laura’s Secret History and Settegast’s Zarathustra. It also helped me in deciphering our Indian history better from the iconography and gave me some helpful hints to follow. Thank you very much again and hoping to read more of your writings, if you manage to get the time.