Telepathy or Alternate Reality?!?

[seekr]

I guess a short intro is in order being this my first post. I found Cassiopeia and SOTT about two years ago after a really intense year of researching many topics that seemed to start with religions but led to many other topics. I was searching to find explanations for the many “oddities” that kept popping up in my life. I came to SOTT after reading the Valerian materials but after much contemplation just couldn’t agree with some of the material.

I have read most everything in the Cassiopeia site, The Wave Series I-V, Secret History of the World, the Castaneda books and many other titles in the suggested reading lists on SOTT. I have been “lurking on the forum for approximately two yrs. I even registered last year but by the time I was ready to comment on another post I couldn’t remember my username.

Thank you Laura, other authors and members, that have contributed to my understanding of things. BTW. I anxiously await the Ouija video….

Let me apologize for the length of this post. I tried to keep it as short as possible but include enough detail to give a clear picture of the experience. It is written in a dream journal format that I keep for myself, to log the details of such “oddities” for later contemplation and understanding as I put the pieces of the puzzle together.

I wasn’t sure weather to post this in the dream section or psi but decided on psi as it was more than just a dream. It seemed like some really intense form of telepathy. Moderators feel free to move to a better location if deemed appropriate. Maybe the “baked noodles” :/

Stuck in L’s Head (my daughter)

08/12/05 early a.m. hrs

Before retiring close to 2300hrs, I had the heavy “disconnect” feeling that seems to precede these oddities, accompanied by the flashes of light behind my eyes.

I’m aware of my sleeping position, a coffin position, flat on my back, hands crossed on my chest, head turned east slightly so as my eyes would be looking at the wall just below where it meets the ceiling… head of bed to the north.

Several faint images flash on the “white screen”; they were clear at the moment but can’t remember what the preceding images were ….seemed to be faces and places, maybe landscapes….. now I can see the lines of geometric shapes fading into focus, at first they are electric/plasma blue but as they become clear and the image focused they turn to silvery light as the moon….I’m aware that it is the exposed beams of a timer framed building…gabled roof…..

something is “fluttering” between me and the ceiling…I’m aware that I’m asleep and watch this image appear with curiosity…..now I can see it is ceiling fans hanging from the cross members….other objects clutter my vision, they become clear and are wind chimes and other hanging decorations, antiques…one of them that draws attention is one of those wooden birds that is suspended on strings and when you pull the weight hanging below it, it bobs up and down on hinged wings and strings so as to seem like a bird in flight, flapping its wings…more details materialize an I can see the natural finished slats of the ceiling…..this is a large room such as barn, a grand hall…..the beams are white washed….

Waves of light start to dance through the room, coming from behind me at first, as they wash through me I can “feel” them, they vibrate as sound through me as they cross the room to cover the wall and ceiling….they appear to be moon light reflecting off of water to light the room….I’m now fully “in” this room and aware of something else in the room with me… I cant seem to look away from the moonlight dancing on the walls……the waves of vibration intensify to the point that my whole being seems to become fluid, I seem to be dissolving or “diluting” into these “audible” waves of light….

I become aware of still being in my bed yet also dissolving into this wave….I remember Castaneda talking of the water “capturing your soul”….I’m now fighting to “get out” to break this gaze, to become “solid” again…..paralyzed…. I see my bedroom as I would normally in the dark, but also, as if super imposed over it, is this “second sight” of this grand hall….the vision fades away so that all I see is my room but still I’m paralyzed fighting to gain control of my body, not in a panic because this has happened many times before, but still very much a struggle….

I hear my daughter’s door close and my concern switches to her safety…still I’m unable to move or call out….as I try to called out, the words are audible in my head, but all that comes out is a growl/grunting sound…I’m able to get my hands into a raised position as if pushing something off of me….briefly I see the dark shadow being on top of me….

Now awake, I lay there a few moments…thoughts of abduction come to mind….exhausted I black out

Not sure of the time, but seemed to be 2-4 am

When I awoke at 6am I was still very aware of the experience and played it through my mind. On the way to take L to school I inquired of her if she had gotten up during the night. She said only to shut her door after her book had fallen from the bed to the floor. I then asked if she had had any odd dreams or experience last night. To which she replied that she had dreamed she was an avian (human with wings) character from the book she was reading. She said she was running from the “institution” from which she had escaped some type of genetic experiments (story plot from the book) I asked if there happened to be a timber framed building in the story and she looked at me puzzled and said “Dad, have you been in my head again”? What she began to tell me was just too uncanny.

The characters (and her) lived in a large timber framed building in the mountains on the side of a lake and had been decorated with objects stolen from various places. (wind chimes, ect.). At this point I didn’t know how but I knew I had “seen” this building in her dream, even “been” there somehow. I asked about the object that looked like a bird and she told me it was a hawk, fashioned as I had seen it. The character in the book had gotten it because it reminded her of the hawks that had helped them refine their flying skills. She also described the white timbers.

I would appreciate any input or understanding as to how I could have seen or been "in" this dream of hers. I have had strange dreams, OBEs, experienced telepathy with others (in a waking state), past life memories, seen beings of other realms ect, even experienced 360 degree vision, and dual awareness at times. All of which I have been able find some context or explanation for.

Is this what would be considered "alternate reality" or creating a "parallel universe", some sort of construct of her mind? I have mulled this one over all day and cant seem to figure out how I was "pulled" into this one.

 

[combsbt]

Welcome back to the forum seekr.

I become aware of still being in my bed yet also dissolving into this wave….I remember Castaneda talking of the water “capturing your soul”….I’m now fighting to “get out” to break this gaze, to become “solid” again…..paralyzed…. I see my bedroom as I would normally in the dark, but also, as if super imposed over it, is this “second sight” of this grand hall….the vision fades away so that all I see is my room but still I’m paralyzed fighting to gain control of my body, not in a panic because this has happened many times before, but still very much a struggle….

I hear my daughter’s door close and my concern switches to her safety…still I’m unable to move or call out….as I try to called out, the words are audible in my head, but all that comes out is a growl/grunting sound…I’m able to get my hands into a raised position as if pushing something off of me….briefly I see the dark shadow being on top of me….

Now awake, I lay there a few moments…thoughts of abduction come to mind….exhausted I black out

Your physical description sounds to me like sleep paralysis. Also the accompanying hallucinations.

[quote author=Wikipedia]
Physiologically, it is closely related to the paralysis that occurs as a natural part of REM (rapid eye movement) sleep, which is known as REM atonia. Sleep paralysis occurs when the brain awakes from a REM state, but the body paralysis persists. This leaves the person fully conscious, but unable to move. In addition, the state may be accompanied by terrifying hallucinations (hypnopompic or hypnagogic) and an acute sense of danger.[3] Sleep paralysis is particularly frightening to the individual due to the vividness of such hallucinations.[4] The hallucinatory element to sleep paralysis makes it even more likely that someone will interpret the experience as a dream, since completely fanciful, or dream-like, objects may appear in the room alongside one's normal vision. Some scientists have proposed this condition as an explanation for alien abductions and ghostly encounters.[5] A study by Susan Blackmore and Marcus Cox of the University of the West of England suggested that alien abductions are related to sleep paralysis rather than to temporal lobe lability.[6]
[/quote]

I don't know what to make of the connection between your experience and your daughter's dream. You seem to be aware of the story her dream was based on, perhaps this is part of the reason you had a similar setting in your experience.

 

[seekr]

You seem to be aware of the story her dream was based on, perhaps this is part of the reason you had a similar setting in your experience.

Hi combsbt, and thank you for the welcome and input.

I'm familiar with sleep paralysis but not sure how hallucinations would explain the same dream between the two of us at the same time. She was dreaming of this prior to getting up to shut her door, which is the same time I became paralyzed.

I'm sorry if I didn't clarify but I was unaware of the book she was reading before we discussed her dream.

 

[Oxajil]

Welcome seekr :)

Stuck in L’s Head (my daughter)

08/12/05 early a.m. hrs

Before retiring close to 2300hrs, I had the heavy “disconnect” feeling that seems to precede these oddities, accompanied by the flashes of light behind my eyes.

I’m aware of my sleeping position, a coffin position, flat on my back, hands crossed on my chest, head turned east slightly so as my eyes would be looking at the wall just below where it meets the ceiling… head of bed to the north.

Several faint images flash on the “white screen”; they were clear at the moment but can’t remember what the preceding images were ….seemed to be faces and places, maybe landscapes….. now I can see the lines of geometric shapes fading into focus, at first they are electric/plasma blue but as they become clear and the image focused they turn to silvery light as the moon….I’m aware that it is the exposed beams of a timer framed building…gabled roof…..

something is “fluttering” between me and the ceiling…I’m aware that I’m asleep and watch this image appear with curiosity…..now I can see it is ceiling fans hanging from the cross members….other objects clutter my vision, they become clear and are wind chimes and other hanging decorations, antiques…one of them that draws attention is one of those wooden birds that is suspended on strings and when you pull the weight hanging below it, it bobs up and down on hinged wings and strings so as to seem like a bird in flight, flapping its wings…more details materialize an I can see the natural finished slats of the ceiling…..this is a large room such as barn, a grand hall…..the beams are white washed….

Waves of light start to dance through the room, coming from behind me at first, as they wash through me I can “feel” them, they vibrate as sound through me as they cross the room to cover the wall and ceiling….they appear to be moon light reflecting off of water to light the room….I’m now fully “in” this room and aware of something else in the room with me… I cant seem to look away from the moonlight dancing on the walls……the waves of vibration intensify to the point that my whole being seems to become fluid, I seem to be dissolving or “diluting” into these “audible” waves of light….

I become aware of still being in my bed yet also dissolving into this wave….I remember Castaneda talking of the water “capturing your soul”….I’m now fighting to “get out” to break this gaze, to become “solid” again…..paralyzed…. I see my bedroom as I would normally in the dark, but also, as if super imposed over it, is this “second sight” of this grand hall….the vision fades away so that all I see is my room but still I’m paralyzed fighting to gain control of my body, not in a panic because this has happened many times before, but still very much a struggle…. I hear my daughter’s door close and my concern switches to her safety…still I’m unable to move or call out….as I try to called out, the words are audible in my head, but all that comes out is a growl/grunting sound…I’m able to get my hands into a raised position as if pushing something off of me….briefly I see the dark shadow being on top of me….

It seems to me that you are quite poetic and pay a lot of attention to what is going on in the dark. I do this too many times. I don't think you don't have control of your body, perhaps it is the ''must sleep at night, so can't move'' thought that keeps you thinking you don't have control. However there is also the possibility you really don't have control of your body, thus paralyzed. Usually praying helps me through that or relaxation and concentration (while knowing what being paralyzed is).
I remember being awake almost all night because of fear, and sometimes this fear can give you many thoughts as well (dark shadows/aliens about to abduct etc).

If you want to move or go to your daughters room and think that you can't; you can try having Gurdjieff last hour comment in your mind: (taken from this thread)

The Exercise
===========
Look back at the hour that has passed, as if it was the last hour for you on the earth and that you have just acknowledged that you have died. Ask yourself, were you satisfied at that hour?
And now reanimate yourself again and set up the aim for yourself. In the next hour (if you are lucky to live one more) try to extract from life a little more than you did in the last hour. Define, where and when you should have been more aware, and where you should have put more inner fire.

And now open your eyes wider, and by this I mean – open more possibilities for yourself, be a little more brave, than you were in the previous hour. Since you know that this is your last hour and you have nothing to loose, try to gain some bravery - at least now. Of course, you don’t have to be silly about it.
3
Get to know yourself better, look at your machine as if from the outside. Now, when you are dying, there is no sense to keep your reputation and your prestige. And now onwards, until the real last hour, aspire with persistence to receive the most you can from life that is of value, develop your intuition. Take just a few moments each hour to watch at the hour that passed, without judgment, and then tune yourself to extracting more from the following hour.

If we look at each hour like at a separate life unit, you can try to do as much as you can to use every unit totally. Force yourself and find the way to make the next hour much more than the one before, but also be aware that you have taken care of the debts you collected till now. Increase the self-sensing and self-knowledge of yourself, and also increase the ability to master yourself, this will change the work of your machine, which is always out of your control. And these abilities can become the indication of the real changes. And it is absolutely unimportant what the machine is thinking about this.

...To live the rest of your life rehearsing your death hour by hour – is not at all pathological. None can receive more from life than the cancer patient, who knows approximately when he will die. And since he already recognized how he wishes to spend the rest of his life, he will not have to make the total change in it, but he will be able to go somewhere, where he always wished to go, but would not do it in other circumstances.
The man who knows that he will die soon, will try to use to the maximum every hour of the rest of his life. This is exactly what Christ meant when he said that the last days will come soon – the days before the Last Judgment. We are all standing in front of the Judge, but it is not the others who are judging us, but we ourselves do the last estimation of our life. We do not have to fail the most important examination, where the most serious judge is ourself.

Each moment, taken alone, represents the particle of the eternal Creation. Therefore each moment we can extract the most subtle substances, that we can call ”the essence of life”. Imagine yourself the substance “air” or the substance “impressions”. Finally, draw in your mind the substance “moment”. Yes, even the moments of time are the substances.

If we will be able to extract the finest substances from the coarser, sooner or later we will have to pay for it. This law is called The Law of Balance. That is why we will learn how to pay immediately for those that we receive from life. Only then we will not have any debts. To pay immediately – this is what is called “real doing”. “To do” – is to think, to feel, to act, but “real doing” – is to pay immediately.

To do – may mean only one thing: to extract the essence from each moment of life and at the same moment to pay all the debts to the nature and yourself; but only when you have “I”, can you pay immediately. Real life is not a change of activity, but a change of the quality of the activity. Destiny – is destiny. Each one of us has to find himself in the whole order of things. It is not too late yet to start doing it now, although you have spent the greater part of your life in sleep. Starting from today you can begin to prepare yourself for death and, at the same time, to increase the quality of your living. But do not delay with the start – maybe you really only have just one more hour of life.
4
Question: Can we share this with others? I think it is very important what we have heard about this evening.

- You can retell it word by word, but until you will [can?] do this [exercise] yourself, it would mean nothing for others. Existence is the means, or the instrument, for action. Think about this and you will find out why it is so.

Question: Therefore, we cannot pay the debts, if we do not exist, or if our “I” is absent?

- Why do you have such a need to pay? Pay for what? If life is only a coincidence, then there is no sense to go on. This does not mean that you have to end your life with a suicide. Opposite, you have to put all your effort into ‘to live’. Ordinary man always lives, just going with the flow. He is not just sleeping, he is absolutely dead. To really live, it is necessary to support the efforts of nature, to take actively from life, and not to act passively – wherever it flows.

Extracting from life the most precious, you have to be able to operate your emotions. See how fairly you can estimate yourself. Look attentively at yourself and you will see many remarkable ways to be fair. Each time notice for yourself different moments when the desires appear. Act as before, but always be aware of their presence. Transport to the world the part of your blood, but one of the higher level.

At the end of each hour after you have estimated its usefulness, imagine that you just woke up in the absolutely unknown in comparison to the previous one gone by. It is important to note that the apparent continuation of the last hour is in reality changing with every hour, although things and people seem the same as before. With the time you will learn to see yourself as a spirit of a special substance, who is coming from one world to another, as an uninvited guest of nature.

Looking from this point of view evaluate everything you do in your life. Looking at the results of all your efforts of the past and think what sense they all have now, in the last hour of your life. Those who are engaged in the Work, are dead to this world and at the same time they are more alive in this world than anyone else. Work… something strange, imperceptible, but for many it is impossible to live without it.
The ordinary way of understanding life is vanity of vanities. However big the result is according to earthly measures, sooner or later it will fail. Even the sand is being rubbed into dust by time. Even the most significant people of history are being forgotten. To understand the real possibilities of this world, it is necessary to find what we can reach in this world that will be very useful in the Real World.

Attentively look at the lives of all the greatest people, those who were commanding armies, who had power over others. What is the benefit for them from all their great actions now, when they are dead? Even when they were alive, all these great actions were no more than empty dreams. We are not here to praise ourselves and to prove ourselves, the most disgusting in the ordinary man is the ability to quickly satisfy his flesh.

The majority of people find many excuses not to work on themselves. They are in a complete prison of their weaknesses. But right now we do not speak about them, but about you. Understand me right, I do not need followers, I am rather interested in finding the good organizers, the real warriors of the new world. I understand 5 the weakness of the organization, because right now we do not speak about the usual organisation which would consist of initiates.

I remind you once again, learn to live each of your hours with a bigger benefit. Create a detailed plan of the last hour of your life. To understand how one should die, you should grow deep roots into life, only then you will be able to die like a human being, not like a dog. Although, it is not given to everyone - to die. You can become manure for our planet, but it does not really mean do die. To die to this world forever - is an honour. For this honour you have to pay with Conscious Labour and Intentional Suffering. You have to earn this right.

Try to imagine yourself relatively clearly the last hour of your life on earth. Write a kind of a script of this last hour, as if you were writing the script for a film. Ask yourself: “Is this how I want to dispose my life” . If you are not satisfied with the answer, rewrite the script until you like it.
Look at life like at business. Time is your money for life. When you came into this world, a definite amount of money was given to you and this you cannot exceed. Time is the only currency with which you pay for your life. Now you see, how you used the biggest part of it in a stupid way. You have not even reached the main goal of life – to have rest. You failed as a businessman, and as a user of life – you deceived yourself. All your life you thought that everything is given to you for free, and now suddenly you discovered that – it is not free. You pay for using the time, that is why each moment of your stay here costs something.

So how would it be possible for you to reimburse [recover] at least somehow these losses? Check, if the deficit on your bank account is only temporary or is it perhaps constant? Did you loose the time or could you invest it successfully? If you have spent all your money on vacations, then there is nothing to do but to be sorry about the past. For many years you have been spending you life as if your parents gave you a bank account with unlimited credit. But now the amount is used and you see that you are all alone and that there is none to rely on. There is no more time on your bank account. Now you are forced to earn each hour of your life. All your life you behaved like a child and spent time just like a newly married couple on their honeymoon.

Our main enemy, which is hindering us from applying the necessary efforts – is hopelessness. I know, you will have many excuses not to prepare yourself for the last hour of your life. The habit is a big force, but starting once, you can learn to do each time more and more.
Do not fiddle all day, force yourself at least one hour a day to make an effort, otherwise you will loose everything. Think about the rehearsal of your last hour as if it was ballet exercises – you have to do it all your life. [/u]

I dedicate four hours a day for this exercise, but when I was young, I spent on it two times longer.

It works for me.

Also this dark shadow, might be something that you made, while having fear and being unable to gain control. But then again, perhaps it was a dark shadow not created by you.

On your question on how you were in her dream or part of her dream, I'm not sure. There is a lot that happens in one life that perhaps can't be explained, but keep on reading etc. and keep this experience in the back of your mind and when there will be a point in your life that you understand what happened and thus gained new understanding of that situation, then that will be your time, try not to put much time and effort in it.
Just sharing my thoughts on this.

 

[seekr]

Hi Oxajil. Thank you for the response.

seekr

I become aware of still being in my bed yet also dissolving into this wave….I remember Castaneda talking of the water “capturing your soul”….I’m now fighting to “get out” to break this gaze, to become “solid” again…..paralyzed…. I see my bedroom as I would normally in the dark, but also, as if super imposed over it, is this “second sight” of this grand hall….the vision fades away so that all I see is my room but still I’m paralyzed fighting to gain control of my body, not in a panic because this has happened many times before, but still very much a struggle….

I hear my daughter's door close and my concern switches to her safety…still I’m unable to move or call out….as I try to called out, the words are audible in my head, but all that comes out is a growl/grunting sound…I’m able to get my hands into a raised position as if pushing something off of me….briefly I see the dark shadow being on top of me….

Now awake, I lay there a few moments…thoughts of abduction come to mind….exhausted I black out

This portion of the experience was the least of my concern/intrigue. It was simply included as it was part of "dream log". I always log as much detail, emotion, sensation, ect. of the experience, upon waking, for review, contemplation and assimilation at a time when such things may be understood. It also serves as an indicator (IMHP) that something significant just happened. The paralysis and shadow being is not so much the indicator, as is, the vibrations throughout my whole being, electrical arching sounds and dual awareness/consciousness of being in two places at once.

Thank you also for the Gurdjieff exercise. I had to read it twice. I often throw myself into new and unfamiliar settings and activities to jolt myself awake and to shatter my perspective of things. Although at first, I found it oddly amusing, trying to self observe, while doing so.....almost like the ,awkward, two second lag/delay experienced in overseas phone calls :P

Oxajil

On your question on how you were in her dream or part of her dream, I'm not sure. There is a lot that happens in one life that perhaps can't be explained

The above mentioned indicators is what alerted me to this being an "oddity" but it was not 'til I discussed it with my daughter that I realized just how odd it was. That is why I posted in PSI rather than DREAMS. This was the part that I couldn't categorize. I've shared telepathic images and thoughts with only a very few people and they were nothing like this. I experience telepathy as images on the "white screen" like a slide show accompanied by a dull sensation behind the eyes. But this was more like a "holo-deck" or virtual reality that I was in. I remember the C's saying something about being able to create alternate or parallel realities/dimensions with the mind but haven't found the session to quote.

Oh well.....such is mysteries hidden deep in the caverns of the mind :/

 

[Third_Density_Resident]

Welcome back to the forum seekr.

I become aware of still being in my bed yet also dissolving into this wave….I remember Castaneda talking of the water “capturing your soul”….I’m now fighting to “get out” to break this gaze, to become “solid” again…..paralyzed…. I see my bedroom as I would normally in the dark, but also, as if super imposed over it, is this “second sight” of this grand hall….the vision fades away so that all I see is my room but still I’m paralyzed fighting to gain control of my body, not in a panic because this has happened many times before, but still very much a struggle….

I hear my daughter’s door close and my concern switches to her safety…still I’m unable to move or call out….as I try to called out, the words are audible in my head, but all that comes out is a growl/grunting sound…I’m able to get my hands into a raised position as if pushing something off of me….briefly I see the dark shadow being on top of me….

Now awake, I lay there a few moments…thoughts of abduction come to mind….exhausted I black out

Your physical description sounds to me like sleep paralysis. Also the accompanying hallucinations.

The conventional "wisdom" regarding so-called sleep paralysis can be quite misleading. Conventional wisdom would have us believe that all states of sleep paralysis and the accompanying sensed presence is nothing more than a figment of one's imagination. It's a convenient explanation which is repeatedly used by skeptics because it can encompass a whole range of phenomena, such as alien abductions. However there is a good possibility that sleep paralysis is accompanied by a heightened awareness state in one's brain which enables the person to see/hear/sense things which are around us all the time but are normally blocked by our narrow-banded brain "antennas".

I'm familiar with sleep paralysis but not sure how hallucinations would explain the same dream between the two of us at the same time. She was dreaming of this prior to getting up to shut her door, which is the same time I became paralyzed.

Well I've had shared dream experiences several times in my life. They are too closely matched to be a chance thing. One time I dreamt I was in the back garden of my grandmother's place at night. The whole garden was haunted by clearly visible "evil spirits". I had never had such a dream in my life before that I could remember. The next day I told the dream to my cousin who was sleeping in the same house as me. She was stunned at what I told her because she too had dreamt of evil spirits floating around in our grandmother's back garden! Another shared dream occurred more recently when I dreamt of those horrible "Dementor" creatures from the Harry Potter universe. I hadn't discussed these books with my sister at all for a long time and yet the next day when I told her of this dream, she said that she too had dreamt that same night of these "Dementors".

The mechanism behind shared dreams intrigues me. Long before I even had my first shared dream, I used to theorise that such a phenomenon would be possible if the "higher aspects" of one's being somehow shared the same "astral plane" or whatever you want to call it with another person's higher being. So when I finally had proof of this theory I was surprised but not to the point of being incredulous.

 

[Craig]

My mother and I had almost the exact same dream the other night... in a very deep and restful sleep. Completely unexpected, specific and out of the blue subject and told to my grandmother separately. It was only later she relayed it back to us both. Really bizarre! Going to keep it filed away because it was about something another family member was doing.

 

[Gimpy]

Found, when lurking the C's transcripts, this;

Q: (A) Last time when we were talking, you made an
essential division between the physical world and the
non-physical world, ethereal world, the one which cannot be
quantified. Now, I know something about the physical
world, how it is built, and the main concepts of atoms and
forces and so on. I would like to know what are the building
blocks that describe this ethereal world. I am asking because
you said that these two worlds can be bridged, if not united.
In order to bridge them, I need to know something about
this ethereal world. Where can I learn it?
A: Consciousness is in reality, the purest form of energy. The
alter realm is composed of consciousness energy. To better
understand the concept, one must utilize one's memory of
particularly vivid dreams, when one had the sensate of
physicality in a transitory state.

Again, little of topic perhaps. But if the experiences mentioned in this thread
was something of an 'transitory state' (whatever that is?), it could be of use
for something, in utilizing ones memory, to better understand the concept of
consciousness?

Ok.

This may be relevant: I've often had dreams in which it was possible to touch, smell, taste, and 'zoom in' on things in the environment that were paid attention to.
There is often a kind of groggy feeling associated with it sometimes. Other times the whole experience is so real that waking up in the morning is a bit of a shock.

I've always had dreams like this in varying intensity. Since reading the Wave, the dreams are more intense.

Tuesday I was asleep on a small couch, and had a series of dreams that were so real, that when I woke up I had to touch the furniture and walls to make sure
where I was at. In each one, it began by waking up on the exact same couch, but the couch was never in the same room. People I knew were in some. In the last dream before waking I wasn't on the couch, but in some kind of classroom/waiting room, and I thought "ok, lets see where we are." I could touch furniture, and see my hands as I did. Going to the door to the outside, I could see the sun shining in a kind of plaza, people walking around. But if I looked to the distance, the scenery totally changed. The minute my attention/focus was distracted by movement or some other color, or even smell...I was somewhere else. All the senses worked...except for one. I couldn't feel my body at all. Where my sight/attention was, that's where I was. If I looked at my hands, then I could sense them. Touching my face told my brain I had one....but there was no sense of it.

Does any bit of this make a lick of sense?

My husband woke me out of this dream abruptly, and it felt like I'd tripped over a chair leg. Getting reoriented was weird. I couldn't tell where I was and literally pinched my arm and tapped things to get a grip.

I wasn't going to even mention these dreams til I read the excerpt.

 

[christx11]

Found, when lurking the C's transcripts, this;

Q: (A) Last time when we were talking, you made an
essential division between the physical world and the
non-physical world, ethereal world, the one which cannot be
quantified. Now, I know something about the physical
world, how it is built, and the main concepts of atoms and
forces and so on. I would like to know what are the building
blocks that describe this ethereal world. I am asking because
you said that these two worlds can be bridged, if not united.
In order to bridge them, I need to know something about
this ethereal world. Where can I learn it?
A: Consciousness is in reality, the purest form of energy. The
alter realm is composed of consciousness energy. To better
understand the concept, one must utilize one's memory of
particularly vivid dreams, when one had the sensate of
physicality in a transitory state.

Again, little of topic perhaps. But if the experiences mentioned in this thread
was something of an 'transitory state' (whatever that is?), it could be of use
for something, in utilizing ones memory, to better understand the concept of
consciousness?

You have to remember that the sessions have context. This was a specific answer to a specific individual and it may not have anything to do with generalizing validity or interpretation of dreams.

Here is a more recent excerpt to the specific question of lucid dreaming -

[quote author=Session 3 September 2008]

Q: (L) Okay, now we've got a few odds and ends questions for various people.... (personal questions and answers deleted.) .... I'd like to know exactly what is lucid dreaming?

A: Partly conscious awareness while other systems are still switched off and subconscious bleeds through. Can be hypnogogic or hypnopompic or "other" states.

Q: (L) Well, is it a useful state for finding out what's going on in your subconscious, or changing your reality or anything like that?

A: It can be useful for entertainment mainly.

Q: (L) So there are no outstanding benefits to be obtained from practicing so-called lucid dreaming?

A: Not really.[/quote]

If you search for lucid dreaming you will find several discussions.

If you search sleep paralysis you will find several discussions.

There is a great trap here in that chasing such phenomena becomes a kind of ritual in itself only reinforcing one's specialness when you cannot even see what is going on in front of you very eyes in regular waking consciousness. Instead of waking up it just reinforces the state of sleep that we are all so comfortable with.

 

[Gimpy]

There is a great trap here in that chasing such phenomena becomes a kind of ritual in itself only reinforcing one's specialness when you cannot even see what is going on in front of you very eyes in regular waking consciousness. Instead of waking up it just reinforces the state of sleep that we are all so comfortable with.

Yes, there sure is. Reading the Wave series shows that pretty clear. :)

When it comes to dreams like the one I had Tuesday, I keep an open mind, and I don't think that kind of dream would happen if I wanted it to.

 

[anart]

Some people don't chase it, they rather 'get' chased by it. 
Such phenomena comes most often by itself, from what I understand.

If it 'comes by itself' then one must seriously consider what 'antennae' is raised.  If one is conscious, it should never 'come by itself'.  In fact, if one is getting 'chased' by it, then one must get serious about waking up because not only are they lost in a dream, but their state of awareness is 'inviting' such things.

Is this all - Lucid dreaming - I don't know. Is it all about it,
I don't know. Is that all there is to it, I don't know.

Is this a statement in defense of enjoyment of what is 'chasing you' or 'chasing' whomever?

It is easy to say that "such phenomena" is just 'lucid dreams'.

Why is it 'easy' - if you want so much to keep your 'phenomena' then that is your choice - there certainly seems to be a flavor of your defending how 'speshul' it is.

Do you say that paralysis is same as Lucid dreams too?

Why not?  And, who knows?  And, even more importantly, how much time have you lost to such distractions that you could have been using to actually WAKE UP and, thus, not have these things 'chasing' you anymore?

Make no mistake - this is NOT a game - and if one does not escape the prison, one remains in it, forever distracted and entertained by phenomena that one defends because it makes them feel special.

Work on waking up - or not, it's your choice.

 

[christx11]

There is a great trap here in that chasing such phenomena becomes a kind of
ritual in itself only reinforcing one's specialness when you cannot even see what is going
on in front of you very eyes in regular waking consciousness. Instead of waking up it just
reinforces the state of sleep that we are all so comfortable with.

Some people don't chase it, they rather 'get' chased by it.
Such phenomena comes most often by itself, from what I understand.

That is one interpretation. Another may be that it is a signal to the self of work that needs to be done in the waking consciousness to clean the machine. And I am sure there are other interpretations.

Is this all - Lucid dreaming - I don't know. Is it all about it,
I don't know. Is that all there is to it, I don't know.

I don't think it was said that this is all there is to it. I can see this did trigger a program in you though. You seeing this yourself and working to recognize your programs helps to remove them. That is what much of waking up is about.

It is easy to say that "such phenomena" is just 'lucid dreams'.
Do you say that paralysis is same as Lucid dreams too?

Where was it said [that "such phenomena" is just 'lucid dreams']? You are now creating your own world for something that was never said. See how easy it is for those programs to run your life. That is what the work is about.

It is very common for people to come here and talk about astral travel and lucid dreams and sleep paralysis and to get fifteen different interpretations and to think it is telepathy or OBE or ... .... ...

Some of it may be meaningful. But it can be a huge trap.

How are these experiences helping you to discern your psychological programs? You are playing more than one right now. How is it helping you to see programs in others? How is it helping you to clean your machine of said programs? Deciding to make a conscious effort to do the work in the real everyday ordinary boring awake world is very difficult and it has many distractions. This can certainly be one of them.

The suggestions to search and read threads about lucid dreaming and sleep paralysis was to give you more information that might provide other possibilities as to what may be going on.

 

[christx11]

My impression was that you (Xman), by quoting the Cass exchange about lucid dreaming
and then to use sleep paralysis as an part of your post, and then say; "such phenomena".
I got the impression you were just drawing it all over one and the same line so to speak.

My apologies if that was not your intention/meaning/writing.

No. And I am a work in progress myself. It was that those searches would be most likely to bring up threads where some good discussions on dreams, lucid dreaming, OBE, sleep paralysis, hypnagogic and hypnopompic states and many related things are discussed.

Don't be discouraged.

 

[Pierre]

There is a great trap here in that chasing such phenomena becomes a kind of
ritual in itself only reinforcing one's specialness when you cannot even see what is going
on in front of you very eyes in regular waking consciousness. Instead of waking up it just
reinforces the state of sleep that we are all so comfortable with.

Some people don't chase it, they rather 'get' chased by it.
Such phenomena comes most often by itself, from what I understand.

That is one interpretation. Another may be that it is a signal to the self of work that needs to be done in the waking consciousness to clean the machine. And I am sure there are other interpretations.

Another possible interpretation is that these lucid dreaming phenomena manifest as a distraction on the way of someone who wants to do the Work.

Lucid dreaming is very appealing for at least three reasons :
* It makes the dreamer feel special, having a supernatural power.
* Many books present lucid dreaming as a step along the spiritual path so the dreamer get reinforcement in considering those phenomenon as positive proofs of his spiritual awakening.
* It feels good, the harsh reality being not here anymore.

It reminds me of the intro of the podcasts : "there is literally a disinformation program for everyone". And what is more efficient than a disinformation programs that looks like an information program ? Lucid dreaming looking like a part of the spiritual path.

 

[Gimpy]

It reminds me of the intro of the podcasts : "there is literally a disinformation program for everyone". And what is more efficient than a disinformation programs that looks like an information program ? Lucid dreaming looking like a part of the spiritual path.

Finding a balance is the challenge. Which is why a network is so important.

Just starting out in the Work, why not write the dreams down? Catalog them as part of an exercise in self observation, and let them flow, without putting any emphasis on what anything means. If a dream scares the pants off you, make a note of it, question it, see if it's a valid fear, or if its just too many nachos before bed.

And I agree that lucid dreams can be disinformation. Just be aware that even in dreams there's a balance, lest everyone throw the baby out with the bathwater. ;)

I think its good that folks discuss their dreams if repeated themes crop up, or if one is tripping emotions too hard for the dreamer to sort it out. It helps put the phenomena into perspective, instead of ignoring it. Not a bad thing, osit.