Seeing that History Repeats Itself in Historical Films

Z...

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
This is the genre I appriciate the most when it comes to movies. Please feel free to share your suggestions.
Disclaimer- some of the reviews are not mine but come from IMDB and I qouted them cause I couldnt agree more

So here is my list:

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1. La Reine Margot France, 1992
My all time favourite dealing with the massacre of St. Bartholomews night and the events around it. This movie is so realistic that almost every frame looks like an oil painting from the period. The wild boar hunt as never seen on the movie screen before.
Superb acting and amazing gallery of psychopats leading with Virna Lisi as the evil incarnated Katherine de Medicci. Musical score by Goran Bregovich compliments the visual feast. For some of it he used ancient songs from medieval Dalmacia and Bosnia.

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2. The Mission 1986 by Roland Joffé
I found myself emotionally devastated after seeing this film the first time. The film packs a punch in its contrast between the beauty of nature and human self-sacrifice on the one hand and the depths of human self-interest and ruthlessness on the other. Its theme is as relevant today as it was in the 1600s - what are the consequences of my actions, and what price must be paid by me and by others as a result? The film depicts several characters with whose choices the viewer can identify - the missionary, the repentant killer, the papal legate - and gives no easy answers to the choices that confront them. But the fact that there are no easy answers doesn't let them off the hook. In the end, they all have to take responsibility for what they do or fail to do. See this movie and contemplate what would be the right (STO) choices in given circumstances.

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3. Iphigenia 1977, Greece
Before sailing ships for troy Agamemnon is getting ready to sacrifice his daughter Iphigenia.
Just the little segment of Trojan War but still way more powerfull then recent hollywood shite

4. Last Temptation of Christ by Scorcesse and Life of Brian by Month Pytons
Two totally different takes on life or in the latter case concept of Jesus Christ , each precious in its own right.
Has anyone noticed flying saucer in The Life of Brian?! :)

5. Il Decameron 1971, Italy by Paolo Passolini
Pasolini freely adapts ten or so episodes from Boccaccio's fourteenth century collection of hundred short stories. He interweaves the tales of happy or tragic lovers, naughty nuns and lusty priests, naive husbands and cheating but quick-witted wives, inept grave robbers, and a young gardener who got more than he had bargained for, with his own meditations on art, life, death and love. Pasolini himself plays a painter Giotto who observes the characters that inspire him to paint a fresco on the church's wall. In the end of the film Pasolini's Giotto comments that it may be better to dream about a work of art than to actually produce it.


6. Galipoli 1981 by Piter Wier
There are anti-war movies that work by rubbing your nose in the gore and brainless waste of war, and then there are those that are more subtle and cunning, and approach your sensibilities from behind. Gallipoli, certainly one of the best Australian films of the modern era, is one of the latter. It approaches war as a game right up until the last 20 minutes, it derives comic dialogue from it, and in some scenes openly ridicules the concept of soldiering (a platoon is swimming naked in the ocean, for example, and one man is hit by falling shrapnel, causing resounding cheers - this means he will be going home.) It's essentially a movie of two overlapping halves: the first tries to encapsulate and describe exactly who the Australians of 1915 were, how they thought, felt and behaved; the second plonks them into the unnatural setting of a war run by the British, who seem quite alien in this film.

7. Elizabeth the Virgin Queen 1998 by Shekhar Kapur
England. 1555. Henry VIII has snuffed it from gout or syphilis, it depends on who you read, Bloody Mary's got a tumour and the Catholics' greatest fear is Anne Boleyn's daughter Elizabeth. Director Kapur has brought to the screen some of the most intriguing moments in English history, ad brilliant cate Balnchet and the result is dazzling.

8. Barry Lindon 1975 by Stanley Kubrick
THIS, I feel sure (without having read Thackeray), is the proper way to adapt a long story from novel to screen. It's one of Kubrick's most gripping pictures, with a narrative drive second only to that of "Dr. Strangelove" (and it's unquestionably a more glorious creation than, say, anything he made in the 1950s). English director Michael Powell (while attributing a similar failing to one of his own works) says that Kubrick fell into "the trap of the picturesque", but while I admire Powell as a creator, the judgment is absurd: at the VERY least, each lush image shows us people not just occupying a part of the screen but inhabiting a world, and tells us much about their relation to that world. Many shots are indeed amazing and beguile the eye, but they don't have the effect they do simply because they would make nice postcards.

9. Der Untergang (The Downfall) Germany, 2004
Traudl Junge the final secretary for Adolf Hitler, tells of the Nazi dictator's final days in his Berlin bunker at the end of WWII
You feel transported to Berlin as it was bombarded by the Russians. You get a very clear insight (or an impression?) in how the military decisions were taken during those final days of the war. The movie balances well between large-scale effects of bombs exploding in ruined streets and depictions of different persons going though the experience – from Hitler and his staff in the well-protected bunkers to the principal military commanders torn between reason and loyalty and German civilians trapped in an inferno. The movie is neither pro-Nazi nor does it depict all Nazis as mindless monsters. It gives an impression of utter reality - especially when watching the ultimate act of psychopathic monsters Goerning and his wife giving pooison to their children.

10.Orlando 1992 by Sally Potter based on V. Wolf's novel
Ah, last but definitely not the least!
Well not really historical movie but I includeed it here as it could as well be. maybe a story nobody managed to record, a real life tale of alchemist who has achieved androginous state and imortality.
(okay the chances are he or she definitelly wouldnt hang around 3 D for so long, but bare with me pls)
The review on IMDB says:
"Orlando" is a curiously ravishing series of essays built around the title character's travel through four centuries and two genders. The film's critical acclaim and awards in contrast with the luke warm IMDB user rating is testimony to the esoterics and queer plot of the film. "Orlando's" artful and elegant presentation features a wonderful performance by Swinton, sumptuous costuming, lush locations, and a screenplay rich in comedic overtones and serious undercurrents. Not for everyone but a wonderful film for the jaded.
 
I heard of that movie but have never seen it.
Sounds interesting.


My recommendations continue with entire opus of Merchant- Ivory team

especially
A Room With a View 1984

Remains of the Day

Howard's End

Here is the filmografy link
http://www.merchantivory.com/filmography.html
 
Btw, Camille Claudel, amongst other wondeful sculptures, made a sculpture of Perseus holding the head of the Gorgone.

You can find a picture of it here :
http:(2slsh)www.rodin-web.de/claudel/bio/pix/perse_detail_160.jpg
 
PFR said:
I recommend "Camille Claudel", the story of the sculptor woman, sister of Paul Claudel and lover of Rodin, who was jealous of her talent. She ended crazy, in a lunatic asylum. Adjani won a well deserved César (equivalent of Oscars) for this role.
Yes, i remember watching that movie years ago, and it was excellent, Adjani's performance too. Camille's life and her relationship with Rodin is very sad story. Imagine, she was locked in an asylum despite her consent, where she lived for 3 decades almost, even if the doctors kept telling her mother that she did not need to be confined.
 
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300

Fresh from the cinema trying to get it out of my system.

Well this thread was intended as a homage to the good historical/period movie and the only reason I am mentioning 300 here is because it is a perfect illustration of what has 21st century movie art mostly been reduced to - all form and no substance at all.
Yes the visual art in this movie is stunning but what is its function? Further programming of the unsuspecting masses?

This movie is filled with disturbing and fascist overtones.

Basically we have Spartans on one side as the good guys, six pack Übermensch defenders of Western civilization ( or killing machines willing to sacrifice their last drop of blood)
and Persians basically depicted as Mujahideen , treacherous and deformed.
The message is in your face really, too bad legendary battle at Thermophylae took place centuries before Islam was even concieved.
Nowadays it seems everything that Holliwood touches bears an obvious mark of the beast.

One could argue the authors wanted to stay faithfull to Frank Miller's( who is undoubtedly classical example of sadistic psychopath) graphic novel but at the end of the day 300 is nothing but Americana at its worst.
The stylized action, set to crunching guitar riffs, feels suffocating in its artificiality. Dialogue, taken mostly verbatim from Miller, comes cribbed from T-shirt slogans (real men wear crimson!) and Bruce Springsteen songs (no retreat, no surrender!).

Miller happens to be creator of Sin City so 300, shares Sin's unapologetically sadistic bent, littering the screen with scads of computer-generated sprays and spurting of blood with every stab in the chest, chop of a limb and hacking off of a head. Such an incessant assault on the senses is clearly designed with the Joystick Generation in mind, those video gamers raised on wave after wave of grisly displays of gratuitous dismemberment.

A monochromatic, testosterone-sodden cross of Gladiator and Sin City strictly for the bloodlust demographic.
A perfect little piece of psychopatic programming.

Definitelly to be missed, and if you wanna enjoy visuals there are plenty movie stills to be found on the net.
 
I have not seen 300 yet but lots of friends says its one of the best films they seem in a long time.
If what you say is true, witch I think it is, its not a good sign.
I think you could feel how we are getting close to the end just by looking at the cultural output.
 
Deckard said:
One could argue the authors wanted to stay faithfull to Frank Miller's( who is undoubtedly classical example of sadistic psychopath) graphic novel but at the end of the day 300 is nothing but Americana at its worst.
I believe Miller would be better categorized as an asthenic psychopath. I doubt he gets pleasure from actually inflicting pain on others.

This type of person finds it easier to adjust to social life. The lesser cases in particular adapt to the demands of the society of normal people, taking advantage of its understanding for the arts and other areas with similar traditions. Their literary creativity is often disturbing if conceived in ideational categories alone; they insinuate to their readers that their world of concepts and experiences is self-evident; also it contains characteristic deformities.

The most frequently indicated and long-known of these is the asthenic psy-chopathy, which appears in every conceivable intensity, from barely perceptible to an obvious pathological deficiency.

These people, asthenic and hypersensitive, do not indicate the same glaring deficit in moral feeling and ability to sense a psychological situation as do essential psychopaths. They are somewhat idealistic and tend to have superficial pangs of conscience as a result of their faulty behavior.

On the average, they are also less intelligent than normal people, and their mind avoids consistency and accuracy in reasoning. Their psychological world view is clearly falsified, so their opinions about people can never be trusted. A kind of mask cloaks the world of their personal aspirations, which is at variance with what they are actually capable of doing. Their behavior towards people who do not notice their faults is urbane, even friendly; however, the same people mani-fest a preemptive hostility and aggression against persons who have a talent for psychology, or demonstrate knowledge in this field....

The more severe cases are more brutally anti-psychological and contemptuous of normal people; they tend to be active in the processes of the genesis of evil on a larger scale. Their dreams are composed of a certain idealism similar to the ideas of normal people. They would like to reform the world to their liking but are unable to foresee more far-reaching implications and results. Spiced by deviance, their visions may influence naive rebels or people who have suffered injustice. Existing social injustice may look like a justification for a radicalized world view and the assimilation of such visions.
Miller has a deep understanding of psychopathy, but he falls into the trap of thinking the majority of people are like that. (Ironically, it's possible he's part of the problem) In such a distorted worldview, it becomes necessary for a "righteous warrior" to set things right, in this case the 300 led by whatshisname. Technicially, if the world were as Miller presents it, his world view might be justified, but it's wrong from the get-go, so this only leads to bad stuff.
 
I noticed someone changed the title of the thread , which is not really a big deal but seems I am in a nitpicking mood today, besides this might be a good lesson in the English comprehension.

I dig what is being said with the new title but still when I read it for the first time
I understood it implies that history repeats itself in historical movies which is really not the case, as history repeats itself only in the real life,

Therefore to convey that all these lessons are recorded in the movies and they are the bits of history ( or history repeating) which help us to reinforce ( repeat) these lessons I find the original title -
..... that its all just a little bit of history repeating more appropriate

btw it comes from the great song
by Propellerheads and Shirley Basey:

The word is about, there's something evolving,
whatever may come, the world keeps revolving
They say the next big thing is here,
that the revolution's near,
but to me it seems quite clear
that it's all just a little bit of history repeating

The newspapers shout a new style is growing,
but it don't know if it's coming or going,
there is fashion, there is fad
some is good, some is bad
and the joke is rather sad,
that its all just a little bit of history repeating

.. and I've seen it before
.. and I'll see it again
.. yes I've seen it before
.. just little bits of history repeating
 
Thanks for the info Hkoehli,
it definitelly applies better.

I thought that only sadist can put so much emphasize on mutilation, and he does this not only through acts of violence but also through the monsters and freaks ( as mockery of creation) that he likes to use so much in his art.
 
hkoehli said:
I believe Miller would be better categorized as an asthenic psychopath. I doubt he gets pleasure from actually inflicting pain on others.
Wow.
This got me thinking a lot for the past hours or so.
I always liked Miller's drawing skills and the twisted "noir" stories he wrote and never took them seriously.
It so grotesque that for me it totally defeats any attempt to manipulate me into enjoying or accepting real violence.
I don't know maybe it's where a subtle conditionning takes place and I am not aware of it.

I suppose this show how naive I can still be.
Thanks.
 
FYI - I've started a thread about 300 here. Maybe everyone could move their 300-related posts over there, and I'll delete them from this thread (just to keep everything on-topic).
 
One great biographical piece I recently saw is La vie en Rose, story about Edith Piaf.
I liked this movie because its a perfect example how to paint a vivid picture of someone's life. Its not the chronological order that matters but intensity of experiences and emotions.
This is how we actually remember our life and this is why this movie delivers the story so efficently.

As for Edith Piaf - this is the impression I was left with - without her talent she was just a retard, almost a monster created by harsh reality, but whenever she would switch to her gift she would turn into an angel or celestial being if you like.

I didnt have too many opportunities to see recorded performances of real Edith Piaff but most of the experts agree that this portrayal of Piaf is spot on, not just in terms of actress's resemblance to Piaf but also in terms of her psychee, expressions etc.
In short movie not to be missed, that is if you dont mind being depressed for a while.
 
Another biographical movie I wanted to mention, but just for verification of my decison as I have never seen this movie and I refuse to do so-is called Marie Antoinette,

I was really excited when I heard about this movie not just because of the historical period it deals with but also because of Kirsten Dunst who left a promise of becoming superb actress and beautiful woman in Interview with a vampire.
Unfortunatelly she didnt keep up neither of of these promises but what made me avoid this movie like a plague was the following:
"When Marie Antoinette is going through her shoes while preparing for a big party you see a pair of Converse All Star 1923 Chuck Taylor basketball shoes for about one and a half seconds. "
Has anyone seen this movie?

In any case I think Dangeorus Liasons from 1988 with Glen Close, Pfeifer and Malkovich althought terribly americanized still manage to give us some insight into the psychee of upper strata of french pre-revolution society. Funnily on IMDB one of the plot keywords is psychopath.
 
Deckard said:
Another biographical movie I wanted to mention, but just for verification of my decison as I have never seen this movie and I refuse to do so-is called Marie Antoinette...
Has anyone seen this movie?
I saw it and I found it absolutely boring and did not watch the movie to the end which is quite rare, maybe it was the whole point after all, because MA is trapped in a boring universe as well.
Not much is happening, although the costumes and sets are quite nice, it does not make for a great movie.

It follows the line of work Sofia Coppola has taken with her other movies thus far imo.
 
Valkyrie

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Valkyrie (2008)

I have just seen this movie and I have to say wow, 4 and a half stars (out of 5).
Not five because it lacks authenticity of The Downfall (previously mentioned in this thread) for the simple reason it is filmed in English and it does have unmistakable Hollywood gloss although subdued
Nevertheless it is a great movie. It is the kind of movie that makes you wonder- what would I do in this situation or what would I do in that situation.
And most probably you will shed an odd tear towards the end.
I was never big fan of Cruise but in this role he was so brilliant that not for a moment I have seen him as Cruise, I only saw von Stauffenberg. True hero who is ready to stop evil at any cost.
 
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