edgitarra
Jedi Council Member
For some time I was researching about what are the origins of Romanians and if truly it is a language that derived from latin. For a couple of years some scandals started to unsettle the historical background of Romania, because some discoveries were made that might prove romanian is the mother language of latin. There are people who try to contradict this calling the study of Dacians a pseudoscience. But I will give you some info here that I found in english and maybe you have an opinion about this:
And another one:
There is also another topic that is quite interesting, related to the fact that there is a location in India(punjabi language, unfortunately I wasn't able to find info about the exact location) where over 80 million people speak romanian(apparently there are over 2000 words that might be pure romanian):
Hope this is of some use for those who are interested in finding more about languages!Ed
source: reddit"In the past few years a new wave of nationalism has hit Romania, with it's own branch of protochronist pseudoscience which we call: dacism / dacology.
As you might know, most historians and linguists agree that the Romanian language resulted from the process of cultural latinization that occurred after the conquest of part of modern Romania by the Roman Empire, ~2000 years ago (at that time, it was populated by Dacians).
Not content with the idea that our language is the result of colonization, the nationalists have come up with a new story: actually, they say, Latin is derived from Romanian, not the other way around.
How is this possible, you ask? Their train of thought goes like this:
Modern Romanian is actually the same language as ancient Dacian. With some changes, obviously, but everything we think is Latin about Romanian is actually Dacian.
Ancient Latin is actually derived from Dacian in the following way: 1) Greece was created by people who originated from around the Black Sea area (Thracians). 2) Rome was created by people who originated from Greece. So "naturally" it follows that Dacians => Thracians => Greek => Romans. So when the Romans conquered Dacia, they were really just "returning home".
Some arguments they come up with to support this theory are:
The fact that the monument dedicated to Emperor Trajan's conquest of Dacia, Trajan's Column seems to depict Romans and Dacians talking, without the need of an interpreter.
The fact that later-period Roman statues seem to feature Dacians in preeminent roles, suggesting a sort of respect one would give to revered ancestors.
A quote attributed to Trajan during his campaign of conquering Dacia, which shows him saying: "I am returning to the home of my ancestors".
Just this year, this theory has received unexpected support from an ex-Vatican collaborator, Micheál Ledwith, who has said the following, during a TV interview:
"I think what is not often remembered is that Romanian, or the ancestry of Romanian, is from where the Latin language came, not vice-versa, in other words Romanian is not a Latin language, rather Latin is a Romanian language, so I want to salute those people from Bucegi mountains and around Brașov, Bucharest. You are the ones that gave the great vehicle of western culture (the Latin language) to the world."
Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luWa_vLgc2o#t=55s
Of course, the dacists jumped all over this and gave it the sensationalist title "The secrets of the Vatican are starting to come to light!" - (even though the guy never claimed he got that info from any super-secret Vatican documents).
With serious funding from nationalist circles, they have created a pretty high-budget documentary (high-budget for Romania, that is), called "Dacians, Unsettling Truths" which you can find here, if you are interested in following this story:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PBdNU7xAcM "
And another one:
source: antimoon.com"A lot of scientists, linguists, archaeologists, historians etc. are considering that 8,500 years ago, Romania was the heart of the old European civilization. The new archaeological discoveries from Tartaria, (Romania), showed up written plates older than the Sumerian ones. More and more researches and studies converged to the conclusion that the Europeans are originated in a single place, the lower Danube basin. Down there, at Schela and Cladova in Romania have been discovered proves of the first European agricultural activities which appear to be even older than 10,000 years.
Out of 60 scientifically works which are covering this domain, 30 of them localize the primitive origins of the man-kind in Europe, where 24 of them are localizing this origin in the actual Romania, (Carpathian- Danubian area); 10 are indicating western Siberia, 5 Jutland and/or actual Germany room, 4 for Russia, 4 for some Asian territories, 1 for actual France area and all these recognisied despite against the huge pride of those nations.
Jean Carpantier, Guido Manselli, Marco Merlini, Gordon Childe, Marija Gimbutas, Yannick Rialland, M. Riehmschneider, Louis de la Valle Poussin, Olaf Hoekman, John Mandis, William Schiller, Raymond Dart, Lucian Cuesdean, Sbierea, A. Deac, George Denis, Mattie M.E., N. Densuseanu, B.P. Hajdeu, P Bosch, W. Kocka, Vladimir Gheorghiev, H. Henchen, B.V. Gornung, V Melinger, E. Michelet, A. Mozinski, W. Porzig, A. Sahmanov, Hugo Schmidt, W. Tomaschek, F.N. Tretiacov are among the huge number of specialists which consider Romania the place of otehr Europeans origines and Romanian the oldest language in Europe, older even than Sanskrit.
According to the researchers and scientists, the Latin comes from the old Romanian (or Thracian) and not vice versa. The so called "slave" words are in fact pure Romanian words. The so called vulgar Latin is in fact old Romanian, or Thracian language, according to the same sources...
The arguments sustaining the theories from above are very numerous and I don't want to go into them so deeply as long as the forum is and has to remain one languages dedicated, to.
In the limits of the language, please allow me to present a list of just a few (out of thousands of words), which are very similar/ even identical in Romanian and Sanskrit:
Romanian
numerals : unu, doi, trei, patru, cinci, sase, sapte...100=suta
Sanskrit
numerals: unu, dvi, tri, ciatru, penci, sas, saptan...100 = satan
then Romanian Sanskrit
acasa acasha (at home)
acu acu (now)
lup lup ( wolf)
a iubi (considered slave) iub (love)
frate vrate (brother)
camera camera (room)
limba lamba (tongue)
nepot napat (neffew)
mandru mandra (proud)
lupta lupta (fight)
pandur pandur (infanterist)
nevasta navasti (wife)
prieten prietema (friend)
pranz prans (lunch time)
Ruman Ramana (Romanian)
saptamana saptnahan (week)
struguri strughuri (grapes)
vale vale (valley)
vadana vadana (widow)
a zambi dzambaiami (to smile)
umbra dumbra (shadow)
om om (man-kind)
dusman dusman (enemy)
a invata invati (to study)
a crapa crapaiami (to break something)
naiba naiba (evil)
apa apa (water) and not AQUA like in Latin. It looks like aqua came from apa and not the other way around...
and so on for more than thousand situations...
According to M. Gimbutas, the confusion Roman (Romanian as in original language) = Roman (ancient Rom citizen), is generated by the fact that Romans and Romanians have been the same nation, the same people. The Dacians/Thracians and Romans have been twins. The illiterate peasants called Romanians, Ruman and not Roman. Why do they call so? Because RU-MANI, RA-MANI, RO-MANI, API, APULI, DACI and MAN-DA , VAL-AH are all synonyms expressing the person from the river banc or from the river valley. APII could be found under the form of mez-APPI in the ancient Italy, under he same name as the APPULI Dacians. APU-GLIA, (or Glia Romanilor in Romanian - Romanian land) can be found with this meaning only in Romanian (Glia= land)
In the Southern side of Italian "booth" exists the first neolitical site of Italy and it is called MOL-feta. The name itself has Romanian names, according to Guido A. Manselli: MOL-tzam (popular Thank you), MUL-tumire (satisfaction), na-MOL (mud); MOL-dova (province and river in Romania, Za-MOL-xis, Dacian divinity. Manselli said that this archaeological sit is 7,000 years old and has a balcanic feature.
I came up with this topic just to hear decent opinions and not banalities like those of a few days ago when while surfing for a language forum, I read all kind of suburban interventions. This topic is for people whith brain only.
As a German myself, I was pure and simple stunned by the childish commentaries regarding German Language given by some individuals, yesterday. I hope, I won't generate anything like that today...if that will happen, I sugest to the moderators to delete it.
What do you think, are you ready to take the challenge and carry on a nice discussion on this topic or I have to look for another place for it?
What do you say about these new (for me - although the theory appears to be known for long time - it has been said that Vatican preserves some secrets about the origins of us all - information obtained in the moment of St Sofia church devastation, in Constantinople, when the churches separation took place). "
There is also another topic that is quite interesting, related to the fact that there is a location in India(punjabi language, unfortunately I wasn't able to find info about the exact location) where over 80 million people speak romanian(apparently there are over 2000 words that might be pure romanian):
"Lucian Cuesdean: ” Punjabi language, spoken in India, has 2,000 pure Romanian words, and many others sound very much alike. That is because they, the Punjabi people, are the descendants of a Getae tribe, just like Romanians, although there is about 4500 km distance between Romanians and Punjabi people.”
We have learnt in schools that Daco-Getae people would be a branch of Thracians, who used to ,exclusively, live in Dacia, current Romanian territories and that they spoke a language different from Latin.Roman Empire conquered Dacia and Dac0-Getae would, apparently, have given up their own language to learn the conquerors’s. And, this is how Romanian was born.
After 20 years of research, Dr. Cuesdean has come to the conclusion that this theory was completely fake. Cuesdean says that Getae tribes, under a different name, used to live in a very large geographical area, from Central Europe to Asia, close to China and India.
Current Punjabi population from north of India is the descendant of a tribe of Getae located in central Asia, over 2.500 years ago. These descendants of Getae speak a language close to Romanian. But, many of their Punjabi words are also common to Latin. The only problem is that 2.500 years ago, there was no Roman Empire. Which means that Getae did speak a latin language way before Roman expansion.
Getae warriors have descendants in India.
“I began my researches from the informations related to the big tribe of Masagetae, attested in Central Asia by ancient historians and mentioned in Evagrius Scholasticus, written in VIth century after Hr. and translated into Ecclesiastical History by E. Walford in 1846, from which I quote: ” Current JAD population of North of India is the descendant of Messagetae. In Pahalavi language, Messagetae is translated the Big Jats.” I went on the trail of this population, the Big Jats. Chinese people called them Yueci, meaning Getae, talking about their domination in Punjabi. So, the Getae did live once in Punjabi. To remember: Getae-Dacians spoke the same language, as the geographer Strabon ( 60 ante Hr. -26 after Hr. ) says, which means from the Carpathians to the central Asia.”
If the Getae owned territories from Europe to Asia, if Punjabi people are their descendants, and Romanians are, themselves, the descendants of Getae, Dr. Cuesdean was curious to find out if there are any linguistic similarities between Romanians and them, by comparing both languages.
“After 20 years of research, I came to the conclusion that the 80.000.000 of people of Punjabi community speak an archaic Romanian. They use 2.000 identical words, many of them, also, common to Latin. But, if Punjabi is a language once spoken by Getae, it means that the Getae used to speak a latin idioma before birth of Roman Empire. Which leads us to the conclusion that Romanian is older than Latin itself. So, in an immemorial past, there was an unique European language, most probably the archaic Romanian, or Getae-Dacian, which through a series of changes and migrations, gave birth to all of the so-called Indo-European languages, including Latin. And the Dacian-Roman war was a fratricidal one. To this day, they speak Romanian or ARomanian from the North of Adriatic Sea to the Volga. Even more, in Kazakhstan, there are now, officially, 20.000 Romanian speakers.”
Dr. Lucian Cuesdean studied Masagetae history for over 20 years.
Dr. Cuesdean is 70 years old, PhD in Health Sciences. Before 1989 he worked in Libya several years, and Libya was part of Roman Empire. It is there that he started to look for explainations for the fact that Dacians might have given up their own language in favour of Latin and Libyans did not. In 1990, by studying all the historiography related to Getae, he discovered the informations about Masagetae, and therefore about their descentands , the Punjabi.
Herodotus wrote about the Masagetae of Asia. We can find the first attestations of Masagetae of Asia in Herodotus writings: ” Caucasus sets the barriers (Scythians) from west of Caspian Sea and then west and towards the rising sun comes a vast plain, immense (Central Asia , close to China) lost in the distance; that plain was occupied by Masagetae, agaisnt whom Cyrus wanted to send his army.”
Cyrus , the king of Persians, did fought agaisnt the Masagetae who’s leader was king Tamyris, but Cyrus’s army was defeated and Cyrus, beheaded."
Hope this is of some use for those who are interested in finding more about languages!Ed