Revisiting The Horrors Of The Holocaust

Re: Scarlet Letter "D"

What I've never understood about revisionists is what they choose to focus on. Let's say for arguments sake that there were no gas chambers. Does that mean that what happened there was no less horrible? If someone were to drag you and your family from your home, separate you, put you into a labor camp and work you until you died would that be less horrible? The crux of the matter to me is that people were the victims of genocide.

I looked up David Cole for some context. It seems he defected from the revisionist movement. I was not able to find any information from Mr. Cole himself explaining his reasons for why this happened. If you know of any links, I would greatly appreciate it if you could list them. The bottom line is that he changed his mind. While there could be numerous reasons for this (coercion, guilt, change of views), the fact is that he chose to do it. If you want to be respected for your choices, shouldn't you respect the choices of others?

As stated above, I think the revisionist movement gets caught up in the specifics of what happened rather than focusing on the evil of what happened. Because of this, the message that is received (although not stated outright) is that what happened really wasn't so bad. "What are they complaining about?" Of course this will be seen as an attack.

I'm not condoning the retaliation that people in the revisionist movement has received. People should be allowed to think what they want without fear of reprisal however as all of us here know too well, when you go against any major belief system you must be prepared to deal with the consequences. It seems to me that too many people want the right to say what they want without a thought to responsibility. People want to say the n word without a thought as to why they want to say it. Why does someone want to say something that seems to serve no other purpose than to cause pain to another? To add insult to injury, everyone must fall in line and simply accept that what's been said is okay. To me, this is akin to kicking someone on the street and then expecting that person to turn the other cheek.

Am I "paranoid" enough to believe that some regarding the holocaust may have been falsified in order to promote an agenda? Absolutely. But when there are so many witnesses in addition to learning about how ponerology works in the world, I have a hard time believing that the current information isn't correct.

I am curious however as to what exactly the agenda is of the revisionist movement. What purpose does it serve? Is the movement really interested in the truth or is it just a platform to promote further separation of people? Does anyone consider the possibility that the gas chambers might have been removed from these sites in order promote doubt about what really happened there? Hopefully you can answer some of these questions.
 
Re: Scarlet Letter "D"

My apologies for the emotional post above (I need to get to the bottom of the program that was triggered). I'm currently reading about the revisionist movement and would like to know more. I would still appreciate answers to the questions above.
 
Re: Scarlet Letter "D"

Hi Kiask,

Maybe you would like to read this thread. Read through the whole thread slowly and carefully.
 
Re: Scarlet Letter "D"

I actually think that this thread should be merged with the "Horrors of the Holocaust" thread.
 
Re: Scarlet Letter "D"

I agree that being uprooted from your home and placed in a concentration camp is horrible enough,. So why do the orthodox insist on gas chambers to the point of imprisoning you in Europe if you deny it?

I respect David Cole a lot and would love to hear from him. If the time ever comes when revisionists can speak their mind without fear of retribution, I suspect we will.

I don’t believe most people would say being placed in slave labor/concentration camps where you died in droves of malnutrition, exposure, and disease (which is what revisionists believe) “really wasn't so bad”. It was a tragedy of monumental proportions, but not genocide.

As to why we do it, I can’t speak for all revisionists, but in my own case I think it’s because I believe the homily “The Truth shall make us free”. The Nazis are portrayed in such caricaturized form, even by our historians, that, along with our glossing over our own sins (Manzanar, eugenics laws, black and white drinking fountains. etc.), little is learned from the history of the Nazi era (cf. the Israelis). By turning a tragic tale into a bizarre, unbelievable story, we almost guarantee the horrors of the past will be repeated in the future.

To learn more about revisionism and answer many of your questions, go to _www.codoh.com.
 
Holocaust deniers generally do not accept the term "denial" as an appropriate description of their point of view, and use the term Holocaust revisionism instead. I think there have always been people who use an event and twist the truth to help their own agenda. (perhaps like a chicken in egg method). People who seek the absolute truth, when finally thinking they reached the end, have to turn right back around and start their research anew, just because it has been twisted and turned so many times that nobody knows anymore where it all started. Then documents get produced or perhaps originals found, but nobody can say with surety what is what.
I think the best accounts of the Holocaust comes from the people (whether German or Jewish or Gypsy etc.) who have been eye witness to this horrific event.
I grew up in Germany and my parents were born during WWII. My mother told me many things she remembers of that time. Such as her good friend Ruth (a Jewish girl) being banned from attending school and than later on her and her family being rounded up by Gestapo. She told me of their church, which one day had mountains of children's clothes for giving away to German children, because times were horribly tough for them as well. My mother and her sister were so happy, they picked a few clothes, during that cold winter and brought it home. My grandmother saw the clothes, found out where they came from, slapped both girls (my mother and her sister) and told them to bring the clothes right back. Only years later, did my mother find out why my grandmother reacted so harshly. They were clothes of Jewish children who had been killed in the concentration camps.
My grandfather lost his job during the Nazi era. He was working for the city of Karlsruhe and refused to join the Nazi Party. Subsequently they fired him. He also had problems getting a marriage license issued, my grandmother was pregnant at the time, because he didn't want to have anything to do with the Nazis. They even tried to force him to change his french name so that it sounds more German. He was a Waldenser. Most of my family on both sides are of Huguenot descent.
I'm sure the gassing took place. But even if someone wants to dispute this, there are other atrocities that happened in the concentration camps, such as medical experiments, which ultimately led to people's deaths. I read German books on and about the Holocaust, with vivid descriptions of the experiments. Mengele comes to mind, the angel of death. I've been to the Dachau Camp and seen and read about the experiments they did at that camp and other camps.
Growing up, you always heard hushed spoken words by some people about that Hitler wasn't that bad, and that Germany could use a "small Hitler again". People complimented Hitler on the first "Autobahn" (Freeway). They even claim that, if it weren't for the medical experiments done on the people in the concentration camps, medical science wouldn't be were it is now. What a bold statement! Is that how horrific atrocities get justified? It irks me beyond belief when people try to minimize or outright deny the Holocaust. I know a Gypsy who still has the tattoo from his time in the camp on his arm near the wrist. Nobody can truly claim this didn't happen, no matter how much they invest to twist the truth. There are simply too many witnesses still out there.
 
Dagaz66 said:
Holocaust deniers generally do not accept the term "denial" as an appropriate description of their point of view, and use the term Holocaust revisionism instead. I think there have always been people who use an event and twist the truth to help their own agenda. (perhaps like a chicken in egg method). People who seek the absolute truth, when finally thinking they reached the end, have to turn right back around and start their research anew, just because it has been twisted and turned so many times that nobody knows anymore where it all started. Then documents get produced or perhaps originals found, but nobody can say with surety what is what.
Click to expand...

Absolutely!

What I think Holocaust deniers in general fail to see is how their own agenda can end up being used to impose further restrictions on not only their lives, but the lives of people in general. When one is lacking in information that gets as close to the source as possible, one can pretty much rationalize anything. I wonder how many of the Holocaust deniers have ever spoken directly to one of the survivors? It seems that what has happened is that they have simply adopted a cause that upholds their own subjective opinions.

I would like to encourage you, Degaz66 to post a welcome thread in the newbies section. Just some info regarding how you found the site and a little something about yourself.
 
Thanks, Dagaz66, for a reasonable perspective which is close to my own. One of the reasons I give a lot of weight to the testimony of Hannah Arendt is because she was there, she lived through it, she saw it with her own eyes.
 
Hi Laura and Truthseeker,

That's one book I haven't read yet, Hannah Arendt. I must look it up. I now introduced myself on the newbie page.
I very much agree with your reply, Truthseeker. Deniers run the risk of it backfiring onto them. If one plays dirty they get dirty and harm others in the process. I guess the main mission of bringing to light the Holocaust was, so that something like that will never happen again.
 
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