Reading Paul's letter about love..

[Petar]

A: Be aware that your own group is under scrutiny and subject to attack if all are not fully aware and communicating. It would be helpful for all of you to read Paul's letter about love a few times per week and ponder each aspect in relation to yourself and others. Times ahead are going to be shocking and unstable. Hold fast to your network and do not allow yourselves to be stampeded or externally driven. Ask when needed and we will be here. Peace be with you. Goodbye.

The Wave Chapter 72: The Nonlinear Dynamics of Love and Complex Systems: Debugging the Universe​

Now, I would like to make some other comments before we move on. I would like to talk a little bit about “love.” Many readers seem to have grossly misunderstood the Cassiopaean remarks about love, …
cassiopaea.org
"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

And if I have prophetic powers – that is, the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose; and understand all the secret truths and mysteries and possess all knowledge, and if I have faith so that I can remove mountains, but have not love I am nothing – a useless nobody.

Even if I dole out all that I have to give food to the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love endures long and is patient and kind; love never is envious nor boils over with jealousy; is not boastful or vainglorious, does not display itself haughtily.

It is not conceited – arrogant and inflated with pride; it is not rude, and does not act unbecomingly. Love does not insist on its own rights or its own way, for it is not self-seeking; it is not touchy or fretful or resentful; it takes no account of the evil done to it – pays no attention to a suffered wrong.

It does not rejoice at injustice and unrighteousness, but rejoices when right and truth prevail.

Love bears up under anything and everything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstance and it endures everything without weakening.

Love never fails – never fades out or becomes obsolete or comes to an end. As for prophecy, it will be fulfilled and pass away; as for tongues, they will be destroyed and cease; as for knowledge, it will be superseded by truth.

For our knowledge is fragmentary and our prophecy is fragmentary.

But when the complete and perfect comes, the incomplete and imperfect will vanish away – become antiquated, void and superseded.

When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; now that I have become a man, I am done with childish ways and have put them aside.

For now we are looking in a mirror that gives only a dim reflection of reality as in a riddle or an enigma, but then, when perfection comes, we shall see in reality and face to face! Now I know in part; but then I shall know and understand fully and clearly, even in the same manner as I have been fully and clearly known and understood by God.

And so, faith, hope, love abide; these three, but the greatest of these is love.” (1 Corinthians 13:1–13)

***

And Ashworth's translation of the last part:

"For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part. But at the coming of age, the partial will come to an end. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child: when I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known." (1 Cor 13:10-12)

After only a few days of reading it, I was shocked to realise how negative I had become about almost everything and everyone around me. All the ignorance and stupidity around me made me intolerant of it, so anyone who showed signs of ignorance made me feel angry and hopeless.
Paul's letter about love helped me to understand that even though I'm trying hard to work on myself, to look left and right, to see through the lies of PDB, without love I'm still missing the point.
It has helped me to have more empathy, compassion and not to be angry at people around me just because they have chosen not to pay attention to reality. It is their choice to live that way and I am not going to change the world by trying to help where help is not wanted.
Paul's words struck a chord with me, reminding me of the troubled times in which we all live and most importantly, reminding me not to forget that without love we are not able to change.
I would like to know: Did the letter of Paul have an impact on you?

 

[seve]

Certainly, my friend. I began to understand love better after the covid and the battle I fought not to be vaccinated, against all odds. The picture of my loved ones so lost and so ignorant and so arrogant, the picture of a humanity so manipulated, so ignorant, so arrogant... brought out in me a real desire for compassion and kindness, because we are so far from ourselves! I'm learning to be kinder to myself from now on.

 

[trytofly]

I will not have the arrogance to say that I have been following the path dictated by Paul's letter for a long time even before having known it, but I think it is in my nature to be rather close to it.
What I mean is that I sometimes feel like I'm being pushed by some people to change my personality to become less conciliatory and adopt a more critical, even aggressive attitude towards others.

This therefore helps me to continue the path I have undertaken despite the repeated attacks suffered recently. Reproaches concerning an attitude perceived as too lax or indifferent ignore the notion of forgiveness, acceptance of free will or quite simply Love in the broad sense. This is undoubtedly the result of a narrow vision of reality, due to a lack of open-mindedness, knowledge, or wisdom.

It seems that lack of ego is considered a weakness. Where is compassion when each individual must assert themselves before caring about others? Most people think they deserve pity more than others for the humiliation and hurt they have suffered. They do not understand how individuals can move on and move on without seeking redress.
I refuse to give up my part of humanity to conform to this state of mind which does not correspond to me.

Paul's letter reassures me on this path. Love must guide to knowledge. And knowledge must amplify this love essential to our evolution!

P.S.: It's "funny" when the computer always crashes at the wrong time. The intuition that he was going to do it writing prompted me to make a copy... too late! I had to rewrite everything. My thoughts have been truncated and I hope to be sufficiently consistent and understandable with my initial writing.

 

[Liliea]

It seems that lack of ego is considered a weakness. Where is compassion when each individual must assert themselves before caring about others? Most people think they deserve pity more than others for the humiliation and hurt they have suffered. They do not understand how individuals can move on and move on without seeking redress.
I refuse to give up my part of humanity to conform to this state of mind which does not correspond to me.

Paul's letter reassures me on this path. Love must guide to knowledge. And knowledge must amplify this love essential to our evolution!

I agree with almost all the sentiment you describe, but I clarify that for me it is not properly the lack of ego, I think it is the correct or proper use of the ego when you say that one must affirm oneself before caring for others (to be concerned with others), because I think it is that desire that drives the self-affirmation to knowledge. (that is love)

At present and as part of so much injustice, cognitive dissonance is serious because people overflow and makes emotional demands that cannot be satisfied. I think Paul's letter brings a lot of clarity as to how to confront that behavior with others and especially with oneself because it is always necessary to clarify what is true love vs. the insidious and rude good-naturedness that many have taught us.
Gurdjieff said:
"Conscious love evokes the same in response.
Emotional love evokes the opposite.
Physical love depends on type and polarity."

"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not knowledge, I am only a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal."

 

[BHelmet]

Great thread. An amazing blueprint for spiritual growth and evolution. The hardest thing is to remember these things in real time when “triggered” by the vicissitudes of life and other beings; to reprogram the mind to leap to these thoughts in those moments our inner feelings become full of anger and irritation.

Interesting the letter focuses on conceit and “hate” and not so much on fear. (Just one brief caveat on not being fretful) Some new age banging cymbals will say fear is the opposite of love. Corinthians …not so much.

 

[Wandering Star]

What I mean is that I sometimes feel like I'm being pushed by some people to change my personality to become less conciliatory and adopt a more critical, even aggressive attitude towards others.

This thought of yours is very, very important.

External pressure from other people who "demand" us to act in a certain way.

A lesson in itself, managing to be ourselves (applying Paul's love) despite external pressures.

 

[Maya]

Certainly, my friend. I began to understand love better after the covid and the battle I fought not to be vaccinated, against all odds. The picture of my loved ones so lost and so ignorant and so arrogant, the picture of a humanity so manipulated, so ignorant, so arrogant... brought out in me a real desire for compassion and kindness, because we are so far from ourselves! I'm learning to be kinder to myself from now on.

Hi, you said it so nicely and it remindes me of first person in my life that said this truth.

'Live and let others live'... said one man I used to love many many years ago.
He tried to explain me Paul but I was way to young.
Didn't have knowledge about people and life - only childish likes and dislikes.

'Either you will look for the truth in youself and then in others who will be curse (lesson) or blessing to you -and you will swim.
Or you'll put up your ego like a stone wall, do not look, listen and try to understand and life will drown you before you know it.

'You will be lost if you do not learn and pay attention.

And when you will be able to understand because you know - then you will be able to accept.
Everything that comes to you with humblenes and kindnes and make of it the best you can with what you know.
For yourself and others.

That's love. '

And here I am, 22 years later.
Everything in it's own time, right ?

 

[hesperides]

As I have been reading Paul's letter about love, I stumbled on one of the best video I've seen so far, which relates to praticing the excellency of external consideration. It´s about the art of seen others deeply and been seen deeply, which David Brooks conveys with quite a lot of meaningful examples, all of them aiming at deepening our human conexion with eachother.

As a caveat, I know David Brooks as a past columnist of the New York Times wasn't precisely the most acknowledgeable person writing about politics, but I think he has since come a long way during the latest years, like he himself explains, and to me he seems genuine.

 

[Talas]

I love..we use the words to much without giving it and ourselves it's true importance to it's meaning but Paul's letter is a framework that sets on the path before us in a simple way we can frame to ourselves and to others around us even when the fog of hate and disinformation crowds within and around us with others.
We are all breaking ground with ourselves and those around us Paul's letter is a light set out to discover love in ourselves the world/s around us and to give hope/faith and indeed the most important love at it's heart so like ourselves others may join the light and discover love.

 

[Darek]

It would be helpful for all of you to read Paul's letter about love a few times per week and ponder each aspect in relation to yourself and others.

I got the idea to make myself a desktop wallpaper with the text of this letter. I have attached a version in English. I know that it does not blow you away artistically, but it allows you to have contact with this text, so to speak . You can always paste this text on another wallpaper...

 

[Saki]

Thank you so much hesperides for posting this fascinating and inspiring interview. I just started reading the book and this interview brings it to life. It conveys hope for humanity and gives me much to consider regarding my way of being in the world.

 

[Alejo]

I have also been reading this a few times a week, and it strikes me as extremely deep despite its simplicity, I've wondered how long and how much work it took to distill such a large concept into a simple set of words.

I was thinking about it in a specific idea, and it still is a work in progress, but it's like the love/knowledge/light... the wisdom of the rain that turns into life everywhere, it feeds the soil which feeds the trees and vegetation, which feeds the animals, and in turn the humans, which go on living, creating more life and so on... To love you must know, and knowing all this interconnectedness, all this wisdom that seems like separate processes as one is but one step.

It has made me think of the arrogance of thinking ourselves so great, so above, so superior, because of what we've come to memorize. It has also made me think of what lies ask for, the truth. But also of external consideration, of others and their own process.

It has made me think of Paul's notion of a direct relationship with god, a spiritual path, that is based on that reciprocal love, which is eternal. It helped cement an idea, which is, no matter your circumstances, you can refuse to live a loveless life, single and alone, or surrounded by people, in marriage or as a parent, or otherwise.

Love doesn't really come to your door asking you to let it in, love is already within you and it needs a conscious choice, married with knowledge to express itself in your living daily choices. What the loving answer to life is, changes, it isn't always affectionate, sometimes it means assertiveness, sometimes it means saying no, sometimes it means standing your ground and pushing back, sometimes it means compassion and understanding, teaching, healing, being generous or its opposite, letting go of yourself and of others, for truth's sake, for love's sake, for knowledge's sake.

It also invites us, I think, to truly consider networking, sharing, giving ourselves sincerely/lovingly to others as they give themselves to us. It's putting the principles of STO, or its seed, in very simple terms. Because one may master many areas, but if one has no one to share this with, it eventually fades away. But if one has a loving network, then one's knowledge and actions will live on forever and have such an exponential effect that we may not be able to conceive of it.

It has made me think of both hemispheres of our brain workin in concert, not just the very analytical one that seems to rule our world today, but both together... the one that understands and ca break down our relationship to creation into bits and ingredients, with the one that sees it all together as love.

I feel like there's so much more to this little text, and the more you know, the more you love.. so in the end is almost as if we could choose to love Love.

I hope the above made sense, it just a few of the musings that have crossed my mind as I read that letter.

Thank you for opening this thread.

 

[lindrie]

Thank you for this thread, I've been thinking about it a lot since the session. Paul's letter about love has been an interesting read for me. It puts into words something I couldnt explain well myself, why there were some actions I didn't do. They were empty gestures and I dont like empty gestures.

I did realize fairly recently (in the past year or so) that my life is very much lacking in Love. So its been nice to have Paul's letter to reflect on.

 

[Magnolia]

I have had difficulty with this passage from the Bible, although it offers a promise of hope: "When the perfect [Love] comes, the partial shall pass away." [God willing.] The mode of being that characterizes my thinking these days is anger. Anger is a marvelous impediment to love; and there is a lot to be angry about, so there are lots of good excuses and opportunities to blame. So I turned to my favorite Master to see what he had to say. He says, "Anger is an emotional state characterized by a desire to be vengeful." He also writes:

"Anger is an epiphenomenon of frustration. The meaning of anger can be found mainly
in one single phrase — "I want." Another source of anger is the habit of "should"
thinking — thinking in terms of what "should" be and what "should not" be. Habits
of thought and words are our tormentors.

"An interesting example of an angry man was Saul of Tarsus, who was a known persecutor
of the early Christians. On the road to Damascus he had a remarkable experience.
He saw a blinding flash of light all around him and heard a voice saying, "Saul,
Saul why persecutest thou me? ... It is hard for thee to kick against the pricks"
(Acts 9:4, 5). We understand this to mean that willful aggressiveness and anger are
self-defeating ways of living, resulting in painful experiences. The victimizer becomes
the victim of his own aggressiveness. Typically, Saul responded with an operational
question, "Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?" And the answer was: "It shall be
told thee what thou must do" (Acts 9:6). But the task required of him was not an
operational one but an existential one, namely, study, prayer, reorientation, and
transformation of character until the "scales fell off his blinded eyes" (Acts 9:18),
and he learned to see Spiritual Reality. Then he understood that the way to do is
to be. Finally, he reached the point where he could say: "I live; yet not I, but
Christ [liveth] in me" (Galatians 2:20).

"It is helpful to point out here that aggressiveness and passivity are two sides
of the same coin because both are ways of ignoring the power and the presence of
God.............[In that event] man is either victim or victimizer, persecutor or persecuted.

"...........in the context of God, omniactive Love-Intelligence, the alternative
to animal courage is loving fearlessness. Salvation is found in the Christly perspective
on Reality, which says, "Perfect love casteth out fear" (1 John 4:18). Spiritual
beings are fearless because they are loving. They are neither passive nor aggressive.
They are responsive. Courage, rooted in anger, is unintelligent, whereas fearlessness,
rooted in love, is based on a sound mind and clarity of vision."
Thomas Hora, MD. Beyond the Dream, p.232

 

[Wandering Star]

I have had difficulty with this passage from the Bible, although it offers a promise of hope: "When the perfect [Love] comes, the partial shall pass away." [God willing.] The mode of being that characterizes my thinking these days is anger. Anger is a marvelous impediment to love; and there is a lot to be angry about, so there are lots of good excuses and opportunities to blame. So I turned to my favorite Master to see what he had to say. He says, "Anger is an emotional state characterized by a desire to be vengeful." He also writes:

Maybe, if you change the word love for the word knowledge, everything will be clearer.

In a very simplistic example, we do not have anger with a barking dog, because we have knowledge of its nature, so we simply stay away from it (in general)...