Questions About Objectivity

[Jones]

Why is there an unconscious fear that this is all a cult? I really do not wish to hold this belief but have come to realize it is there so I must face this harsh reality. I really look up to this forum + the members, Laura, and the books so how is it possible this fear is hidden within?

I don't think it's that unusual to have a fear of cults given that there has been stories on the news about cults and some of the horrible things they do to people. Most of us have been exposed to news of that. It's probably a healthy fear mostly.

The goal isn't to suppress feelings - they have a job to do. It's just that you don't want your feelings to do your thinking and your thinking to do your feelings. Feelings need to be questioned just as much as thinking does.

There's this from the Cass Wiki:

Emotional thinking
In Fourth Way discourse, emotional thinking refers to emotions taking over the thinking functions. The intellectual center may be taken over by emotions and, directed by these, can construct arguments for defending some decision purely based on emotions. An example would be the fantastic rationalizations true believers have recourse to when defending clearly deceitful, even psychopathic actions of their leaders. Such ’thinking’ is not affected by arguments appealing to reason. The intellectual center is isolated from these by a sort of wall formed by the emotional investment in one’s belief. In the event of along standing practice this can form buffers. Emotional thinking is an example of the wrong work of centers.

That can be tricky to sort out!

A personal example:

Over a period of about 8 years, there were 3 two week periods where I went overseas and I had to leave my dogs in kennels. I was a bit worried about that because even though the kennels had a good reputation, if anything untoward happened to my dogs during their stay, or if they found that environment stressful, then it's not like they could pick up the phone or tell me about it when we got home. And I just plain missed them. So when I landed back home and went to pick up my dogs, there was joy and peace that we could just go home and get back to normal.

Probably around 8 - 10 years later, I made a series of really bad decisions that caused a lot of suffering. I was emotionally thinking, and forming buffers that really slowed down the ability to think clearly and make good choices. This was a surprise to me because I had the notion that I blocked feelings, but I hadn't really, I was just not paying attention to them and questioning them. They were doing the wrong work and were skewing my thinking.

So in the aftermath of those decisions when I was getting down to how I could possibly have made all those bad decisions it come down, in part, to a fragrance! I was aware of the fragrance in the environment when I was making the bad decisions but didn't realise that I had a history with it. There were other things going on of course the, situation was more complex and there is more in me that contributed, but this fragrance and the way I felt about it was driving some of my thinking.

As it turns out, the fragrance was a coat conditioner/deodorant that the kennels put on dogs before collection by their owners! The point being that feelings can be trained and conditioned and have triggers that initiate them mechanically regardless of the circumstance. This has been studied in behavioural science - classical conditioning - which is conditioning feelings and involuntary processes. Also, I was studying dog training and behavioural psychology at the time and had taken a particular interest in classical conditioning. WTH! Lessons, eh?!

If I'd been aware enough to question why I liked that fragrance and where had I smelt it before, maybe some of my decisions might have been different, or probably more likely back then I would have taken the feeling as a sign that I was making the right decisions. Feeling good doesn't necessarily mean things are good, and feeling bad doesn't necessarily mean things are bad.

Tricky!

 

[Voyageur]

Also this hurts too because I do believe I was cultivate an observers mind with objectivity but I can see in ways how I got sucked back into a very emotional subjective experience. I feel quite embarrassed and am worried that I will be looked down on yet this is not what the forum is for, yes there may be harsh truths BUT it is because of the love of the cosmic mind and thus it's creations.

Worry not about that (last bold), as it is likely common for most to experiences the subjective a) because there has been that conditioning through life (many sources), and b) it is hard work to constantly try to remain on a path that reflects a more objective approach. However, the more one does so, the more one rememberers - catches oneself when they miss a step. Catches themselves when that negative emotion comes up, or that subjective mind interferes and over shadows. When anger becomes automated and has no reins, when ones problems cannot be seen in a bigger picture and become so internalized. And, networking helps.

I feel like I post mainly on here about myself but that isn't really helping in terms of network.

You have had some good advise above from others, and to add, one also needs to first help themselves in order to help others. If there is a particular matter you need to ask for help, there are sections for that and you can start a thread, or not.

What books on the recommended reading list will help with cultivating an objective and observant outlook both inwards and outwards. I am re reading the wave series but what other books of Laura's do you recommended first?

Would start with Amazing Grace, then the Wave, and by order, Laura's individual titles. Of course, if jumping into any you will likely find interest. As for the 'recommended' list in general - large as you have seen, one needs to ask what they might may need at the time. If family - even if work or interpersonal issues have been an issue, you could try any one book in the "Big Five" - all are good and this is somewhat specific: The Narcissistic Family - Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman and Robert M. Pressman - the overt or covert kind, that ripples in near all families down through the tree. It is a good one that can help one see what influences and how others around oneself were affected during life and how it might effect oneself.

 

[Alejo]

Hi FRV,

I think it's a valid observation, and you have received some really good responses, I will add mine humbly.

I think the concern comes from seeing them as opposite, or mutually exclusive, that is that if one is subjective one can't be objective, or that one can't hold both notions in one's outlook on life simultaneously, and I think that's where your doubt may come from. The truth, IMO, is that they're not at all opposed to one another, they're simply levels of perception and both require a full commitment without dismissing the other.

Perhaps a good example of how these two concepts connect in our lives is the notion of karma, or past lives, or life after death of our bodies. There's so much literature that expands on that notion, our life plans and our karmic debt, this is objective reality, yet... we all incarnate with zero recollection of said plans and debts, and I believe there's a purpose to this amnesia, I think if we knew beforehand what we came here to do, we'd ruin our lessons, because it would get in the way of our subjective experience.

So, I think we need to be completely immersed in subjective experience, and commit to its limitations, but without loosing sight of the larger perception of ourselves, the world at large and certain events, that way our subjective experience, including our emotional engagement, all fit in a larger context, and the subjective experience is more wholesome.

I think part of the trick is to not allow certain knowledge to make one completely cynical about reality, one can love another fully and also be aware of the fact that this love manifests physiologically as chemicals in your body, and that sometimes these chemicals may trick your heart into thinking it's love, but having that knowledge doesn't negate the existence of a love that definitely includes this physical factor, but also transcends it.

The same is true for pain and suffering, one can have a notion of grief being simply a psychological effect of object loss, and that there's an immortal soul and as such, no one is really gone, objectively. But subjectively, we all feel the emptiness and how a part of ourselves is gone forever. The two notions do not contradict one another, they coexist. That coexistence expands the subjective experience, it is still subjective, it's just now seen within a larger objective reality.

Knowledge of an objective reality, and how the world works, and how we work, may aid you in becoming more self aware, so that you may offer yourself and the world around you a healthier and more wholesome subjective experience. If you think about it, it is our subjective experiences, the joyful, the painful, the strange ones, that push us into seeking knowledge of objective reality.

Another book I would recommend to expand on this idea would be From Paul to Mark, the idea of self work, of developing agency and spiritual connection with yourself and the universe, and the notion of love is wonderfully explored there. I think another one would be The Master and his Emissary, by Ian McGilchrist, it's about brain hemispheres, I think he has a wonderful idea about the perception of reality and how some things that seem separate, aren't really separate at all. A gross simplification of his work could be, you can't let your brain run wild with no heart, but you can't let your heart take over control of areas it doesn't comprehend, they need to work hand in hand.

I hope I expressed my self clearly above.

My two humble cents.

 

[dmnlksm]

Hi FRV.

When I read what you wrote, it seemed to me that you need to give yourself time. There is a difference between reading the sessions and digesting what you read. After all these years I think emotions are a total manipulation, they are a constant obstacle. Feelings and emotions are different things. In the end, these emotions, the challenges, and the worries that we create for ourselves are all part of the curriculum that we need to reach a better version of ourselves. There is no need to be afraid, everything will happen how it is supposed to happen and we will continue to try somehow, whether we succeed or fail.

 

[FRV]

The more you know your own machine and the more you eliminate or neutralize your harmful programs, the more objective your view of reality will become.

I see now I wrote the original post from a bit of a place an emotional place opposed to "wise mind" as they mentioned in CBT I took. I can see a lot of fear, insecurity, and doubts coming through. I was trying to learn more and dive deeper to "know thy self" aka our machine and our deep subconscious conditioning. What happened is I was reading a lot but not absorbing due to an overload of information. I see now that I was subconsciously rushing and slowing down will help. I think I will finish "Thinking Fast and Thinking Slow" then go back to more of the recommended reading list

 

[FRV]

I don't think it's that unusual to have a fear of cults given that there has been stories on the news about cults and some of the horrible things they do to people. Most of us have been exposed to news of that. It's probably a healthy fear mostly.

The goal isn't to suppress feelings - they have a job to do. It's just that you don't want your feelings to do your thinking and your thinking to do your feelings. Feelings need to be questioned just as much as thinking does.

After some more reflection I can see this fear is due to me subconsciously being too open and even though I thought I was taking The Wave books with a grain of salt- I was taking it as THE TRUTH instead of guidance to do my own research to connect to Source/Truth.

Now that I am not in a fear state, I can see a lot of subconscious fears that came through my original post that I was unaware of OR thought that I had dealt with but now appears another deeper layer.

As someone who suffered a lot of trauma I know that suppression is not healthy and keeps emotions stagnant in the mind/body yet I now see I am still doing this in some ways. I really enjoy how you mentioned it's not about NOT feeling but about questioning them. Observing them.

If I'd been aware enough to question why I liked that fragrance and where had I smelt it before, maybe some of my decisions might have been different, or probably more likely back then I would have taken the feeling as a sign that I was making the right decisions. Feeling good doesn't necessarily mean things are good, and feeling bad doesn't necessarily mean things are bad.

Tricky!

Thanks for sharing your experience. That brought me insight. Also reminded me that healing doesn't always feel good but it is SO beneficial. Like wise, love can be a chemicals reaction that feels SO GOOD but may not be beneficial to the soul/experience and is used to distract like Petty Tyrants being planted on our path ways to distract our individual and collective missions. Thanks for sharing.

 

[FRV]

Would start with Amazing Grace, then the Wave, and by order, Laura's individual titles. Of course, if jumping into any you will likely find interest. As for the 'recommended' list in general - large as you have seen, one needs to ask what they might may need at the time. If family - even if work or interpersonal issues have been an issue, you could try any one book in the "Big Five" - all are good and this is somewhat specific: The Narcissistic Family - Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman and Robert M. Pressman - the overt or covert kind, that ripples in near all families down through the tree. It is a good one that can help one see what influences and how others around oneself were affected during life and how it might effect oneself.

Thank you for your reply. I also appreciate the recommended books.

I can see a lot of ego and wounds so as much as my ego felt ashamed to post and ask for help, I am so glad I did. Not only can I see some negativity that needs to be worked through and false beliefs- I also am gaining incredible insight from reflecting on each of the members replies.

You have had some good advise above from others, and to add, one also needs to first help themselves in order to help others. If there is a particular matter you need to ask for help, there are sections for that and you can start a thread, or not.

I also was recently taught some Neuro-Linguistics Practice's that focus on acknowledging our emotional state by observing then using an anchoring/grounding technique to shift one's mindset from a negative view to positive- this can happen rather fast and when paired with the continuing of The Work can be highly beneficial IMO. I feel like this is similar to what you described in the quoted below

Worry not about that (last bold), as it is likely common for most to experiences the subjective a) because there has been that conditioning through life (many sources), and b) it is hard work to constantly try to remain on a path that reflects a more objective approach. However, the more one does so, the more one rememberers - catches oneself when they miss a step. Catches themselves when that negative emotion comes up, or that subjective mind interferes and over shadows. When anger becomes automated and has no reins, when ones problems cannot be seen in a bigger picture and become so internalized. And, networking helps.

 

[FRV]

Hi FRV,

I think it's a valid observation, and you have received some really good responses, I will add mine humbly.

I think the concern comes from seeing them as opposite, or mutually exclusive, that is that if one is subjective one can't be objective, or that one can't hold both notions in one's outlook on life simultaneously, and I think that's where your doubt may come from. The truth, IMO, is that they're not at all opposed to one another, they're simply levels of perception and both require a full commitment without dismissing the other.

Perhaps a good example of how these two concepts connect in our lives is the notion of karma, or past lives, or life after death of our bodies. There's so much literature that expands on that notion, our life plans and our karmic debt, this is objective reality, yet... we all incarnate with zero recollection of said plans and debts, and I believe there's a purpose to this amnesia, I think if we knew beforehand what we came here to do, we'd ruin our lessons, because it would get in the way of our subjective experience.

So, I think we need to be completely immersed in subjective experience, and commit to its limitations, but without loosing sight of the larger perception of ourselves, the world at large and certain events, that way our subjective experience, including our emotional engagement, all fit in a larger context, and the subjective experience is more wholesome.

The same is true for pain and suffering, one can have a notion of grief being simply a psychological effect of object loss, and that there's an immortal soul and as such, no one is really gone, objectively. But subjectively, we all feel the emptiness and how a part of ourselves is gone forever. The two notions do not contradict one another, they coexist. That coexistence expands the subjective experience, it is still subjective, it's just now seen within a larger objective reality.

Knowledge of an objective reality, and how the world works, and how we work, may aid you in becoming more self aware, so that you may offer yourself and the world around you a healthier and more wholesome subjective experience. If you think about it, it is our subjective experiences, the joyful, the painful, the strange ones, that push us into seeking knowledge of objective reality.

Another book I would recommend to expand on this idea would be From Paul to Mark, the idea of self work, of developing agency and spiritual connection with yourself and the universe, and the notion of love is wonderfully explored there. I think another one would be The Master and his Emissary, by Ian McGilchrist, it's about brain hemispheres, I think he has a wonderful idea about the perception of reality and how some things that seem separate, aren't really separate at all. A gross simplification of his work could be, you can't let your brain run wild with no heart, but you can't let your heart take over control of areas it doesn't comprehend, they need to work hand in hand.

I hope I expressed my self clearly above.

My two humble cents.

Ahh, yes. I am thinking in too much black or white. I am thinking in too much terms of absolutes instead of being curious and researching more. Thank you for explaining the concept of both objectivity paired with our personal experiences and lessons in this lifetime. You are mentioning the aspect of co-existence that I can apparently have not integrated as well as I once thought. Our human experience is valid but so is our infinite soul- they can co-exist. It is not one or the other.

I dearly appreciated the time you took to write your thoughts out, you are clear IMO.

I think part of the trick is to not allow certain knowledge to make one completely cynical about reality, one can love another fully and also be aware of the fact that this love manifests physiologically as chemicals in your body, and that sometimes these chemicals may trick your heart into thinking it's love, but having that knowledge doesn't negate the existence of a love that definitely includes this physical factor, but also transcends it.

Insight was brought about while reading as I see a huge misstep on my part. Which I have become aware of many times and then would fall back into my subconscious while I consciously thought it was worked through. I have become rather cynical about reality. I have read the Wave Books (I believe 5 in total) and more than once BUT it brought a lot of fear. I was into some "conspiracies" growing up and seeing so much of them come true (or rather to light) and then being presented in Laura's books created even more fear. But the point is NOT to be fearful as that creates more food but rather to become more aware in order to become liberated and be able to make choices through awareness/knowledge and not deep conditioning. I can know feel that the cynical energy is rooted deep and thinking back even the last few days, although I am quite positive and enthusiastic , I can actually see A LOT of subtle ways I am speaking or acting due to feeling/being cynical under the surface.


I look forward to reading AND absorbing more of the recommended books as well as the forum. I look forward to learning to research more objectively. Then I will come back again and re read all these replies to see some perspective on progress made as well as what else to work on. I know that as I change I will read the replies differently.

This all has been so wonderful for re grounding and pointing me back in the a beneficial direction . Now time to absorbed, integrate and learn through action/experience.

 

[Mike]

After some more reflection I can see this fear is due to me subconsciously being too open and even though I thought I was taking The Wave books with a grain of salt- I was taking it as THE TRUTH instead of guidance to do my own research to connect to Source/Truth.

Now that I am not in a fear state, I can see a lot of subconscious fears that came through my original post that I was unaware of OR thought that I had dealt with but now appears another deeper layer.

As someone who suffered a lot of trauma I know that suppression is not healthy and keeps emotions stagnant in the mind/body yet I now see I am still doing this in some ways. I really enjoy how you mentioned it's not about NOT feeling but about questioning them. Observing them.

Hi FRV,

You might be interested in this thread that talks about Neurofeedback to help with trauma and such things, specifically the NeurOptimal system. It can help with the 'bottom up' as talked about in the below C's session quote. Also, the books talked about in the same session quote might be good reading for you as well in terms of adding to all you have done with the 'top down' stuff. In short, doing both 'top down' like you are working on and the 'bottom up' via NeurOptimal might help you in many ways to improve even further.

I've done a lot of NeurOptimal over the last few years (and a lot of Talk Therapy in the past) and I think I've seen more overall general improvement as compared to doing Talk Therapy and 'Working on myself' alone for years without the NeurOptimal, fwiw. Doing EE (the breathing and meditation program developed by Laura and the Chateau) over the years since it was developed has helped me a great deal as well.

Figured I'd mention this since the Forum really is huge and the material here extensive and maybe you haven't run across it.

NeuroFeedback, NeurOptimal and Electroencephalography

NeuroFeedback During the SOTT talk radio broadcast on Sunday 3rd November 2013 Nora Gedgaudas talked a lot about a science for training the human mind called NeuroFeedback. In this article I shall attempt to deliver a very concise description of this science. The medical science in depth is...

cassiopaea.org

Q: (Chu) About the book: “Healing Developmental Trauma”... We were discussing it earlier, and pretty much everybody seems to have some connection issue regardless of the survival style they developed. One possibility is that people need that as part of the "life plan" in this reality so that they suffer and then learn on a sort of fast track. And/or the other possibility is there is some kind of interference from hyperdimensional 4D STS beings to generate more suffering.

A: Why not some of both in some cases? And not to forget "past life" influences.

Q: (L) One thing I noticed about this last little set of books that I ended up on by following my nose... It was like following bread crumbs. I ended up with this Samenow, and then the Developmental Trauma book. It seems to me that these two approaches, which pretty much focus on making the changes in the now and not so much focusing on what's wrong, are probably the most practical expressions of what we have been calling The Work - as in Gurdjieffian stuff – that we’ve ever encountered. It's like we've gone through book after book after book, each one adding a bit to the picture. But this has brought it down to such a simple, practical level that almost nobody can miss it. My feeling is that something very profound is going to come out of this particular little experiment that we're doing.

A: Indeed. All in your group should read these books in order to jump start the necessary processes for achieving receivership capability. Those who have been blocked up to the present will find unblocking therein if they are able to receive.

Q: (L) So, you're suggesting that those who read and can take it on board... We've seen that happening! People are reading it, and they're REALLY getting it. Some people who have not really understood what it means when you say that your own mind can be your enemy, are finally getting it when they learn about thought errors, that emotions follow thoughts, and so on. I think it's also true that thoughts can be generated by emotions, but you can control your emotions with your thinking.

(Pierre) For some members, the realizations are very visceral. It's deeply felt, and not just an intellectual exercise.

(L) Yeah. Well, Jonathan Haidt talks about the mind-body system as a rider on an elephant. The emotions are the elephant, and the conscious mind is the rider. He gives a fairly bleak representation of this as though no rider is ever going to really be able to control the elephant. But if you follow the Samenow and the Work method along with the Pauline stoic method of dealing with your elephant, you can actually maybe grow your rider to the point where he's bigger and stronger. You can maybe give him some tools with which to control that elephant. Is that in fact the case?

A: Yes

Q: (L) The Developmental Trauma book talks about how you have to have knowledge of what's going on. That's the top-down thing. You have to know your survival style and your thinking errors so you can watch for those. At the same time, people who have been going along with these thinking errors for a long time, or those who developed thinking errors in response to a specific situation as they were growing up, also have an elephant that's kind of spring-loaded to be fractious and unresponsive to guidance and direction. That's where the bottom-up treatment comes from. It seemed to me that the neurofeedback was probably the most efficacious way because it helps to calm the brain down so that the rider of the elephant has a chance to grow and develop.

(Pierre) Yeah, and if I understand correctly, neurofeedback prevents this shift into sympathetic mode where the elephant gets all the power; once you've shifted into sympathetic mode, it's uncontrollable.

(L) Yeah, it's the amygdala hijack.

A: Good analogy.

Q: (L) You mean the rider and the elephant?

A: Yes

Q: (L) Okay. Is it possible for us to grow our rider and give him tools to better control the elephant? Is it possible?

A: Yes

Q: (L) Haidt makes it sound so bleak... It's like you're NEVER going to get control of that elephant.

(Pierre) Well, it's not black and white. He says you can nudge it a bit here and a bit there.

Chu) Nothing about neuro?

(L) What about the neuro?

(Artemis) Well, according to this book about neurofeedback that I'm reading, it can possibly potentially help people become immune to certain poisons, toxins, and possibly even sicknesses. Is this true?

[Tape stops and needs to be flipped in the middle of the next answer. Artemis is happy.]

A: Yes and you need to continue!

Q: (Artemis) I knew it. Can it also possibly protect people against beaming and HAARP?

A: Yes

Q: (Artemis) And the flu and the plague? [laughter]

A: Yes

Q: (Pierre) And Ebola?

(Artemis) Ebola? [laughter]

A: Yes

Q: (Artemis) Well, this is great. It means it can help a lot of people with a lot of things.



(L) Alright. So, we'll keep on with our neurofeedback experiment, and we've gotten some interesting footage tonight from the brain scan business.

(Artemis) Oh, wait a minute! Andromeda and I have been seeing flashes of light occasionally. What are those flashes we've been seeing?

A: NO effects!

Q: (Artemis) No effects?

(L) I think they mean NeurOptimal effects.

A: Yes

Q: (L) So in other words, there is excitation going on in your ocular area of the brain.

(Artemis) Is that what it means?

A: Yes

 

[Alejo]

Ahh, yes. I am thinking in too much black or white. I am thinking in too much terms of absolutes instead of being curious and researching more. Thank you for explaining the concept of both objectivity paired with our personal experiences and lessons in this lifetime. You are mentioning the aspect of co-existence that I can apparently have not integrated as well as I once thought. Our human experience is valid but so is our infinite soul- they can co-exist. It is not one or the other.

It happens to all of us, I don't think we're ever really over our tendency to think in certain ways, or become deeply identified with our subjective experience, after all we are looking out of our own eyes all of our lives, and like I said, I don't think that is a bad thing really. But this is the value of a network, for the very purpose of aiding us in incorporating things that on our own, are difficult.

And part of the work, I suppose, is the daily choices of aligning our human experience in the here and now, with our infinite soul. And as you rightly point out, sometimes fear can get in the way of this task, and understanding that fear from within is impossible, but looking at it objectively from without, without denying one's close existence with it, is how objective reality and subjective experience begin to meld, IMO. You fully feel what you do feel, but understand it from both within and without, objective reality and subjective experience coexist.

 

[Mari]

Yes, this "object and rational only" view can seem detached and Vulkan-like, it sounds like not being in touch with our emotions and so on.

But it is not and I´ll try to explain how it works for me in practical terms.

I think that reading The Wave is an excellent start because from there you will learn how our machine works and learn how to see the unseen. You will see how our minds are programmed and how a series of triggers make you "feel" in different ways. And then, as others said, from there simply pull on a thread where your next interest is.

Are our observations true and based on objective reality or are they something that we filtered and had a reaction to it because of our own programming? You will see that no matter if the topic is - about some world event, or is some situation that one has certain beliefs/programs, or a simple fact of one being attracted to another person - all of that is subjected to our pre-programmed/learned programs/behaviors.

So how to deal with that? Well, that´s the tricky part and not one person learns in the same way. Some learn simply by reading someone´s experience and some need a biiig lesson to finally get it.

It requires a lot of self observation and questioning and knowledge input. One learns to recognize our patterns of thinking. Maybe next time when you strongly react to some situation, that is the time when you observe: why does this make me angry, anxious, scared,…? Does this reaction matches the real situation?

I was just recently in a situation where I learned that my reaction and my feelings of anger and anxiety was a leftover from my previous experiences and that a current situation is in no way similar to what I experienced before. But my body reacted in a same way because of a few overlapping similarities.

Also when we look at the world; do you think that so many people would go along with the Covid scam if they had read both sides of the story? All of those people who vaccinated themselves because they thought it was the right thing to do and lived in fear (and still do!!!) and none of them cared to REALLY look at the opposing view. So, they were living (and still do) on an emotion of fear. Fear of imminent death made them go all Nazi and full of hatred towards other human beings that were thinking differently than them.

What if they actually REALLY read and understood the opposing views? Where there was fear for their lives and made them do Nazi stuff, now in place would be righteous anger and they would see the psychopaths for what they are.
What if all of humanity chooses to collect the real knowledge - the objective and rational knowledge - and then to see - to really see? Would you think that the psychopaths in power would be there much longer?

That is an example (from the top of my head) of what would happen if people see the world in an objective and rational way.

Another example is relationships. If one is aware of his/her programs and triggers and knows herself/himself, do you think that person could ever end up in a bad relationship?

So, viewing the world around you - and yourself - in an objective and rational way is not without emotions; it is having correct emotions based on objective reality and then choosing, weather you invest your emotions/energy into the situation or not.

Is there any point in being angry at covidiots for them being on their learning path and choosing they go along with the deception? Sure you are angry, but then realizing that it is their lesson and that all are lessons, puts things into perspective.
It is VERY hard when you see those people destroying the lives and health of the children, especially when seeing that satanic transgender agenda and how they mutilate children. And you get angry, and for a good reason. But in the end, they all choose their lessons and what you can do is to point out the wrong and hope someone will listen.

So, it is not an emotionless view of the world at all; it is very emotional, it´s tragic, it´s heartbreaking even, but in the end - it is better to know the truth, the real, bare, objective truth than to walk in the dark, tangled in false ideas, programs and - in the end - false emotions generated by false view of reality.

On that note, after you read The Wave (where all of the above and much more is explained in much debt) you might continue with The Secret History of the World Series, where in book 3 in the final chapters Pierre explains how resonating with the truth and how resonating with the lies influence the whole of humanity and the world.

Aligning with objective and rational world view, is a world where one chooses where one‘s energy and emotions go, and on a greater scale, choosing if one will be part of the creative side or the entropic side of the universe.

 

[Liliea]

Here is a thread in the forum that might be of interest to you.

2010 MIVILUDES REPORT

Galahad is in the process of translating the 2010 MIVILUDES report so I think I'll post it here as it is completed. It's just too good to wait... PLUS WATCH THIS VIDEO: Scientology, the CIA, and MIVILUDES: Cults of Abuse [In order to convey the wordy and pseudo-scientific language of the...

cassiopaea.org

 

[FRV]

I told myself I would read and reply to your replies later and alas I forgot about this thread till I read this in Book 8 of the wave

Now, I have underlined the remark about the natural necessity of emotion for progress so that those who will tend not to see it won’t be able to miss it. Nobody is saying that emotions are bad or that we should not have them. They are natural and necessary.

Now that I am gaining a new perspective again, as we do often, I am looking forward to reviewing this thread and most recent replies. Thank you again for your input on this thread

Hi FRV,

You might be interested in this thread that talks about Neurofeedback to help with trauma and such things, specifically the NeurOptimal system. It can help with the 'bottom up' as talked about in the below C's session quote. Also, the books talked about in the same session quote might be good reading for you as well in terms of adding to all you have done with the 'top down' stuff. In short, doing both 'top down' like you are working on and the 'bottom up' via NeurOptimal might help you in many ways to improve even further.

I've done a lot of NeurOptimal over the last few years (and a lot of Talk Therapy in the past) and I think I've seen more overall general improvement as compared to doing Talk Therapy and 'Working on myself' alone for years without the NeurOptimal, fwiw. Doing EE (the breathing and meditation program developed by Laura and the Chateau) over the years since it was developed has helped me a great deal as well.

Figured I'd mention this since the Forum really is huge and the material here extensive and maybe you haven't run across it.

NeuroFeedback, NeurOptimal and Electroencephalography

NeuroFeedback During the SOTT talk radio broadcast on Sunday 3rd November 2013 Nora Gedgaudas talked a lot about a science for training the human mind called NeuroFeedback. In this article I shall attempt to deliver a very concise description of this science. The medical science in depth is...

cassiopaea.org

I recently saw this thread but got overwhelmed and barely started reading it. Thank you for the encouragement, I will look into this further. I also agree doing top down approaches like talk therapy only got me so far and I am making progress by including other things. I'm open to seeing if NeurOptimal will help