Pockets of Depression

[Ominous]

I've been having a plethora of personal problems of late, detailed in another thread here. I've been dealing with things fairly well, accepting and living with life's difficulties. A week will pass like this, and then suddenly I'm hit with a pocket of depression so intense that I feel as tho I'm losing my mind...insane thoughts of suicide/helplessness enter my mind. And I KNOW that, for whatever reason, my mind is playing tricks on me. It's as if, every few days, someone flicks a switch and says, "time to see how much he can take THIS time." Then it goes away after a few hours. Its hard not to "buy" into it, tho; its as if I'm being preyed upon by my own mind! Has anyone hda any similar experiences? Any insight would be very welcome. Thank you.

 

[yamez]

I'm hit with a pocket of depression so intense that I feel as tho I'm losing my mind...insane thoughts of suicide/helplessness enter my mind. And I KNOW that, for whatever reason, my mind is playing tricks on me. It's as if, every few days, someone flicks a switch and says, "time to see how much he can take THIS time." Then it goes away after a few hours. Its hard not to "buy" into it, tho; its as if I'm being preyed upon by my own mind! Has anyone had any similar experiences?

In answer to this, oh yeah! My last experience was over a lost opportunity in a "failed" relationship. To think I had suicidal thoughts over this "trivial" event. When I look back now I see a switch too. This was before knowledge of psychopathy, the predator and the hyper dimensional aspect.

When one is not open to awareness, one is being preyed upon, taken up by the emotion rather than driving for knowledge from the experience.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Hi Ominous, I'm not sure if this was posted in the other thread, but consider reading the following, it may help:

http://www.quantumfuture.net/qfs/qfs_depression1.htm
http://www.quantumfuture.net/qfs/qfs_depression2.htm
http://quantumfuture.net/quantum_future/scroll3.htm

 

[PepperFritz]

I've been having a plethora of personal problems of late, detailed in another thread here. I've been dealing with things fairly well, accepting and living with life's difficulties. A week will pass like this, and then suddenly I'm hit with a pocket of depression so intense that I feel as tho I'm losing my mind...insane thoughts of suicide/helplessness enter my mind. And I KNOW that, for whatever reason, my mind is playing tricks on me. It's as if, every few days, someone flicks a switch and says, "time to see how much he can take THIS time." Then it goes away after a few hours. Its hard not to "buy" into it, tho; its as if I'm being preyed upon by my own mind! Has anyone hda any similar experiences? Any insight would be very welcome. Thank you.

I went through many periods of what you're going through when I was younger, after intensely traumatic events in my life. I called them "mind fevers". When experiencing them it is important to remind yourself that they are not YOU, that they are episodes that always have a beginning, middle, and end. It's hard to explain, but I eventually trained myself to shut off the self-critical voices that accompany them -- e.g. "I shouldn't be feeling this way", "I'm so weak", "There must be something wrong with me", etc -- and just experience the psychic pain as one would a temporary physical pain. When you have a muscle spasm, for instance, you don't condemn yourself for it, you just breathe through it, knowing that it grows, peaks, then eventually subsides. And you don't beat yourself up afterwards, you just say "Phew, I'm glad that's over", and get on with things.

Unlike what our drug-obssessed, "feel good" culture tells us, depression is not necessarily a "bad" thing. As a recent BBC article (Is Depression Good For You?) points out: "depression is not a human defect... but a defence mechanism that in its mild and moderate forms can force a healthy reassessment of personal circumstances." Also, studies have been done that indicate that "depressed" people actually perceive things as they are much more accurately than do "happy" people, who are prone to wearing "rose coloured glasses". And since "the Work" is all about taking off the "happy shades" and accurately perceiving objective reality, then it would seem that "depression" is an inevitable part of the "waking up" process.

HOWEVER -- (Warning, I am about to present a point of view that many on this forum may disagree with!)

However, there is such a thing is "clinical depression", whereby "normal" depression develops into a severe bio-chemical imbalance, resulting in an incapacitating inability to function, which is no longer a useful tool for personal and spiritual growth, but simply a chronic debilitation. I've been there too, and eventually made the decision to take corrective medication for a temporary period of time. And I've never regretted doing so. The medication worked almost instantly, and allowed me to climb out of the deep hole I was in long enough to become functional again.

In my view it is a matter of knowing the difference between those two states. Just as one would not run to the doctor to seek medical attention for the occasional muscle cramp in the leg (which is merely your body's way of telling you to maybe cut down on the intensity of your morning workouts), a severe chronic pain that impairs one's ability to walk may be an indication of something more serious, requiring medical intervention.

Others on the forum will no doubt have different experiences and viewpoints to offer, mine is only one. Hope it helps. If not, throw it in the trash... :)

 

[nemo]

PepperFritz,
for what it`s worth: I think your post is very sensibly and certainly does not belong to the trash.
"Clinical Depression" is a very serious illness, and often beyond a cure.
I have my doubts if a person afflicted with this kind of depression is able to differentiate between CD
and more normal forms of depression. Such a person very probably needs some external help.
The dilemma here is to get the "right" doctor/psychotherapist, someone to recognize and deal
adequately with the situation.

 

[Annette1]

After reading your post, I thought for awhile about how I climbed out of my many depressions over the years. I don’t wish to beleaguer anyone with woeful tales. However, a horrific childhood was my teacher; at nine years old I suffered a nervous breakdown. I’ve hit “bottom” and was digging! Yes, I’ve had suicidal thoughts. I’ve also spent three months of going to bed at night praying not to wake up in the morning, and when I did wake up I was very disappointed and despaired at having to do another day of anguish and misery. And, yes, it does feel like you are losing your mind.

In my twenties I decided that I seemed to fall into depression states very easily because I was allowing myself (read giving myself excuses) to “go there.” I wasn’t liking it very much so I reasoned that in any negative there is a positive and visa-versa. I needed to discover that positive side. From what I’ve been thru, (my lessons), I discovered that because of some of the things I experienced, I had acquired my inner strength. Looking back at some of the experiences I’ve endured, when I am faced with some new trial, I compare it and think that if I got thru THAT (the past) what’s before me now should be a “cakewalk”. I learned that even though a lesson may have been a difficult one, if nothing else one hopefully learns a better way to deal with a future similar one or what might be best avoided. After reading the C’s comment about all being lessons, I realized that in a small way, I had been on the “right track” with my perspective there.

Another thing I learned to do was to “shed” the emotion and examine why I was in a depression. This is a bit more difficult and I’m not always successful, but it revolves more around what led me into the depression. Doing some “in depth” self examination and analysis is helpful for me; again I look for the lesson within ever more so when it happens now. As PepperFritz advises, don’t beat yourself up over it, just work toward getting past it.

The hard ones for me are seeing some of the news footage of people being maimed and/or killed, the senseless tragedies we find ourselves mired in today and these do send me into “mini” depressions and I find myself crying. With the knowledge I’ve acquired I have a better understanding of what is going on and the whys and wherefores, but it still gets to me after so many “doses.” This is when I find myself delving into the material here and seeking encouragement and learning.

Also, the material SocioAgapeOmnis posted for reference, seems to convey that depression is a stepping stone. In a strange sort of accumulative sense I do feel “more prepared” for the next or future lesson, which could be viewed as a kind of “growth.” One way to view it is that depression involves coming to terms with some issue, whatever it may be. Another item is that, if possible, get out in the sunlight. It really does alleviate some of the “down effects” and seems to enable one to get through the depression a bit faster.

PepperFritz gives some insightful advice as well and I agree that one needs to be able to judge the difference between clinical and “normal” depression.

Hope this helps a bit.

 

[the_hammer]

I found this on wikipedia, which I think gives a pretty accurate description of clinical depression.

-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_depression

I am a nurse, so I might have been corrupted by the pharmaceutical companies to think that severe depressions requires medicine. A minor depression you can work your way out of, like Annette descriped, especially if you can pinpoint why you are feeling the way you do, but the clinical depression is a disease caused by an imbalance of neurotransmitters, and no happy thoughts or mind programmes are going to help you IMO of course.

You also said that you had thought of suicide, but that your thoughts had stopped you from doing so. This is actually quite a good sign, which would suggest that you aren't completely depressed. Quite a few people with depressions have thoughts of suicide, but they simply don't have the energy to follow through. It's only when they start feeling better that they get the energy to do so.

Like nemo and pepperfritz suggests, I too would suggest that you seek out help from a doctor and a psychotherapist, since this combination seems to have the highest successrate and is the quickest. In an other post you also said that you were nearly free of Methadone, which could be the reason for you both feeling the way that you do now and for having to take whatever you did in the first place.

Sorry for speaking my mind, but I do hope you will get to feel better soon!

 

[Ominous]

I will say this - if my current situation would've happened 10 or even 2 years ago, I wouldn't be alive today. I would've handled it very badly, allowing my self-importance & negative emotions to overcome me. The material on SOTT has been instrumental in helping me to become aware of these programs & deal with them as best I can. The pockets I spoke of are mentally & physically crippling. I know in my head that its my emotions run amok. But the coercion is so powerful sometimes that it frightens me. I also have had a not-so-picture perfect past; for the majority of my 20's I was injecting heroin/cocaine & doing terrible things to facilitate this habit. I got clean of my own volition, and thus began my family & my earnest research into WHY I was blessed enuff to survive AND start a beautiful family w/ a girl I loved. Now that's all falling to pieces 8 years later...

 

[Annette1]

Ominous - all depression is emotionally, mentally and physically debilitating to some degree. The further you slip into it the more difficult it is to escape it. But the really tricky part of it is you just can’t “jump” out of it. You need to ease yourself out of it.

Don’t overwhelm yourself. Don’t chastise yourself. Remember there is no right/wrong, just choices. All there is is lessons. You will find something positive in this set of circumstances although it may not appear that way presently.

If you have someone you can talk to face-to-face whose observations you find beneficial and you trust this can be therapeutic. Although you may not have the energy to “do” something, do get your body out in sunlight.

You already pinpointed most of what you believe the problem is, (emotions running amok), so sorting out what you can change and what you cannot may be useful. Also, you seem to have overcome some fairly powerful forces with your own will and persistence in the past, so it seems that it is fairly reasonable to assume that you do possess the will and the persistence to overcome this as well. And, as in the past, it didn’t happen overnight. You have a very unpleasant “disappointment” to work through now which is going to demand a lot of your focus and energy. Just try to maintain a balance as best you can.

 

[Stowaway]

Hello Ominous. No, I haven't had the same experience you describe, but I do have a thought. When one is under stress, proper nutrition and rest become more important. Be sure you are eating and sleeping well.

"While many people understand the connection between nutrition and a physical disease state, fewer people are aware of the connection between nutrition and depression. Depression is more typically thought of as strictly emotional or biochemical. Nutrition, however, can play a key role, both in the onset, severity, and duration of depression, including daily mood swings. Many of the same food patterns that precede depression are the same food patterns that occur during depression. These patterns may include skipping meals, poor appetite, and a desire for sweets. People who follow extremely low carbohydrate diets also run the risk of feeling depressed or blue, because the brain chemicals that promote a feeling of well-being, tryptophan and serotonin, are triggered by carbohydrate rich foods." -- http://www.healingwell.com/library/depression/beardsley1.asp

 

[Renaissance]

One of the scientist who worked on the Political Ponerology study, Kazimierz Dabrowski, didn’t see depression nor other neurosis as illnesses but as the opposite - a function of rapid development. I don’t know how long the term ‘clinical depression’ has been in use, but it looks to be mostly an American term. In his book, “Psychoneuroses is not an Illness” Dabrowski includes many of the symptoms found in clinical depression under the name ‘psychoneurotic depression’ - he does mention that his theory does not include ‘endogenous depression’ which has been said to appear without cause and isn’t much affected by treatment. I’ve not read this book, only skimmed parts in looking up some terms. The only book I have read of his (Mental Health through Positive Disintegration) was quite exciting and even therapeutic...which was unexpected from a scientific text. A book based on understanding human development should have that effect. It was similar to reading the Wave and many other of Laura’s works.

Dabrowski’s study into neurosis being a component of growth is a part of his Theory of Positive Disintegration. In it he suggests the structure of our more primitive drives and instincts can be loosened and disintegrated when acted upon by the force that neuroses creates. This seems to split open the false layers of lower instincts and emotions and allows the essential seed that exists inside (which the false layer imitates) to grow. The whole process takes on an additional layer when we consider how our primitive drives have been influenced by pathological molding at a young age. It may be useful to consider how the dramas that bring about these disintegrative experiences may act as a mirror to the moments when we were exposed to humiliation and inhumanity that suppressed our real selves as children. So, the disintegrative process would probably be most beneficial when the root cause is discovered. Thus, the pain may be very old, but is replayed through new forms. Or so I think.

Also, the ‘disease belief’ of major depression seems to build a barrier for those who experience it. It seems subconsciously say that such hurt experienced is not valid - that the person going through this is somehow broken. ...a bunch of sacred cow dung imo. I think this can play a part in activating the predator’s mind during these already hard times. The thing is, the pain is valid (when it's not of the predators mind) and we should feel allowed to go through it. We’re fighting against those things that have messed us up so much! Such kinds of pain are extremely intimate and however raw present an opportunity to touch the deeper senses of our humanity. When the ‘disease belief’ exists in our minds, we seem to have invited some foreign influence into our most personal and vulnerable space - an influence that seeks to block the very things depression and other neurosis work against: ponergenic influence. I could see how the force of neurosis could go into overdrive when the predator is so close to our essential self. ...and so WAR must be declared!! ...as I’ve known you do to in the past Ominous. ;)

Here’s a bit from Mental Growth through Positive Disintegration on psychoneuroses:

Conflicts, Stresses and Psychoneuroses

The majority of the mentally retarded, as well as those with psychopathic mental structure, do not experience inner conflicts, though they are often involved in external conflicts.

Disappointments, suffering, inner conflicts, breakdowns, force one to depart from peaceful adjustment to automatic activities such as daily routine, pursuit of money, pleasures of eating, primitive joys, or superficial, easily resolved conflicts.

Frustrations and inner conflicts change one’s relationship to the ordinary, everyday, narrow reality and lead away from it. They provoke the rise of different emotions to more refined and empathically transformed levels. Under such conditions different needs appear, different issues have to be resolved; new stimuli arouse emotional responses different from those existing till then, different from those associated with needs common with a group. The interests and experiences of the individual become much more exclusive, unique, unrepeatable, much more complex and controversial. Previously they were infrequent and on the side now they become the main component of his life.

With respect to the psychic developmental potential, we are dealing apparently with three phenomena which are three aspects of one process.

First, psychic hyperexcitability, general or more differentiated (emotional, psychomotor, intellectual) provokes conflicts, disappointments, suffering in family life, in school, in professional life, in short, leads to conflicts with the external environment. Hyperexcitability also provokes inner conflicts as well as the means by which these conflicts can be overcome. Second, hyperexcitability precipitates psychoneurotic processes, and third, conflicts and psychoneurotic processes become the dominant factor in accelerated development.

One of the elements, arising from the collision of the developmental (i.e. the potential for disintegration and psychoneurosis) with the external environment and one’s own stereotypes is frustration. We are accustomed to believe that frustration is a negative factor in development, detrimental to the individual and to the group. However, it is our opinion that this interpretation is erroneous.

It is clear to us that continuous frustration without the corresponding development of inner psychic transformation, self-awareness and self-control will have a negative outcome. However, the development of these factors which are important dynamisms of the inner psychic milieu makes positive use of frustrations. If developmental dynamisms are very strong the frustrations can be very intense. Thus suffering, maladjustment and even some forms of breakdown are necessary events in development.

It seems odd to us that a high threshold of frustration tolerance should be considered positive for development. In our opinion, such a viewpoint is not accurate. High frustration tolerance is characteristic of psychopaths, of the mentally retarded and individuals characterized by very primitive development. On the contrary, in our opinion, a low threshold of tolerance to frustration characterizes sensitive, subtle, and creative people, those who manifest “contact introversion”.*

It is deeply human to experience one’s own affliction and to empathize with that of others. This capacity always depends on lox or medium threshold of frustration tolerance.
__
*Contact introversion is this type of introversion wherein exist certain traits of syntony allowing a mental contact with others. This shows a certain slant of the introvert type towards extraversion

Here’s some of what he wrote about depression in Psychoneuroses is not an Illness:

Psychoneurotic depression

Psychoneurotic depression is characterized by a great tension of sensitivity and by a strong fear of being psychically hurt. Hence withdrawal, isolation, feelings of inferiority, fatigue, fear of activity and periods of low mental tension (low energy) alternating with periods of high emotional tension. We also observe weakening of ability for synthesis but intensification of analytic tendencies.

When the developmental potential is considerable then depressions are usually of internal origin, i.e. arising spontaneously within the individual himself. They are the expression of his disquietude with himself, feelings of inferiority in respect to himself, dissatisfaction with himself, feeling of guilt. It is a consciously or half consciously experienced distance between himself from the “higher level” that he sees and feels to exist within him, and himself from the “lower level” that he also sees, evaluates negatively, and observes in its weakness, misery, humiliation and worthlessness. One of my patients expressed it in the following words: “I am surprised that my children can love and care for someone so unpleasant and repulsive as myself”.

Depressions, as a rule, develop on the matrix of inner transformations with a more or less pronounced influence of the external milieu. Very often they are related to the psychobiological changes of maturation and the climacteric. In both these periods something new arises and something ends. In the period of maturation the new may be incomprehensible, strange even unpleasant, and that which ends causes sadness. Then come thoughts of death, suicidal inclination, and -- not infrequently -- suicide itself. This period is followed fairly often by development and unfoldment of mental energy and positive traits.

The climacteric has certain similarities, although from the biological aspect, the phenomena are not only new but also difficult and unpleasant because there is a diminution of energy, of efficiency, loss of beauty, and awareness of somatic discomforts. In the experiencing of an individual aware of himself there is a feeling of losing one's attractiveness, one's value and instead growing dependence on others. Individuals endowed with great developmental potential experience suicidal thoughts, preparations for death, and often changes in the direction of opening interest in meditation and mystical phenomena. At the same time they are dominated by feelings of sadness, isolation and loneliness.

 

[Annette1]

This was really helpful and interesting, Shane. Great points!! Thanks so much for posting!!