Pneumonia (Hospital-acquired) or (Walking)... neither?

Nawd

Nawd

Dagobah Resident
Greetings all.
I recently came back from a University hospital for treatment for alcoholism (I'm well now) and stayed in treatment for seven days. They let me go on the seventh day, even though my vitals showed a temp. of 100.1 degrees F. They didn't care though, and I attributed it to my stress and running around to pack.

They sent me home, and I got worse. First it started as a mild cold and runny nose about three days after leaving the hospital. That lasted for four to five days before it turned even worse. Cold chills, fever of 102, coughing spells from my lungs (green stuff) and still a runny nose. I've went through 8 rolls of toilet paper in 8 days. Plus two nights ago, I think I either cracked a rib, or pulled a major muscle under my third rib from coughing. Or it's inflamed. Plus I have three kids I'm taking care of alone and I work 4 hours a day while they are being babysat. The kids just got over a minor cold and we've taken every step to not infect them with what I hope is just a bacterial infection (I'm pretty sure.)

If this IS the same as what I've read of Hospital Acquired pneumonia, it has a high mortality rate. I hate to go back to the hospital and catch another infection of some sort that will do me in. And it may not help if it is resistant to antibiotics. If it is walking pneumonia, awesome, I can deal. I'm sleeping from 8pm-7am every day (when the kids sleep). I have no family or friends to help out.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Nawd

P.S. I'm loaded on the Vit C, A, Beta-carotene, Vitamin D-3, Zinc, Selenium, Garlic, Elder Berry Extract, Echinacea, and Olive Leaf Extract. I'm trying my best to stick with Basmati rice, cayenne pepper (lots!), omega 3 eggs, fresh organic veggies from the garden, fresh made Hummus, and green tea for the past few days. I drink lots of water. I've had to give up smoking because it makes me cough now.

P.S.S. I feel better every few hours, then it comes back like a storm for another few hours. Right now I feel fairly decent except when I go to pick up a kid and my rib throbs.

Sorry so long!!

Thanks again.

edit: more info
 
Hi Dawn. I'm really sorry you're going through such a difficult time with your health. You mention that you're loaded up on Vitamin C. What dose are you taking? You might like to have a look at this thread about Vitamin C/ascorbic acid, which discusses the use of mega-doses of ascorbic acid to treat all kinds of conditions. If you can't tolerate the acidity of ascorbic acid (and it is very acidic) you can try sodium ascorbate, or one of the other mineral ascorbates. Hope this helps.
 
Hi Dawn,

It sounds as if you are doing the right thing as far as your diet and supplements.
Dawn said:
Cold chills, fever of 102, coughing spells from my lungs (green stuff) and still a runny nose.
Click to expand...

These are signs that your body is getting rid of its toxic material. Let it. Any hospital treatment you get -- cough suppressants, antibiotics, fever reducers, etc. -- serve to stop your body's cleansing mechanisms. While these treatments may make you feel better in the short run, in the long run they set you up for more intense or chronic disease processes in the future, IMHO.

Relax, take it easy and rest as much as possible. Let your body heal itself. It sounds as if you are getting better.

P.S. Have you considered seeing a Naturopath or a Homeopath?
 
Thanks everyone. I sure hope I'm doing the right thing. It's maddening with three kids. At least I'm resting lots at night. Also it didn't help sweeping out the garage a few days ago...

I'm recently single and got off the boos so that I could raise my kids properly. It was only a week because I had already started weaning myself a few days previous, plus I wasn't a 'full blown' addict. After much research I've found I have allergies to wheat, and just so happens, Canadian Whiskey (my former drink of choice) is wheat based. Now I avoid all wheat.

Hmmm that's a idea, I hope a homeopath doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I think the worse problem is coughing with this injured rib. I have to get down on one leg and counter pressure it hard in order to cough productively.

Mada85: I'm currently taking around 120 grams of absorbic acid/vit C. I can't afford anymore for several weeks, when I get paid again.

Thanks for the link and thanks for caring! Any more suggestions welcome!



chachachick said:
Hi Dawn,

It sounds as if you are doing the right thing as far as your diet and supplements.
Dawn said:
Cold chills, fever of 102, coughing spells from my lungs (green stuff) and still a runny nose.
Click to expand...

These are signs that your body is getting rid of its toxic material. Let it. Any hospital treatment you get -- cough suppressants, antibiotics, fever reducers, etc. -- serve to stop your body's cleansing mechanisms. While these treatments may make you feel better in the short run, in the long run they set you up for more intense or chronic disease processes in the future, IMHO.

Relax, take it easy and rest as much as possible. Let your body heal itself. It sounds as if you are getting better.

P.S. Have you considered seeing a Naturopath or a Homeopath?
Click to expand...
 
In the hospital we would advise the patients to hold a pillow firmly to their midsections when they needed to cough. Cuts down on the discomfort but still allows you to get the gunk out.

Congrats on stopping the booze!
 
Dawn, what you have sounds a bit more then walking pneumonia. My daughter had it and I would never know, as she never had a fever, only coughed at night and was just a bit more tired then usual. Only because I knew she was exposed to it (a friend was diagnosed a couple of weeks earlier), I took her in and sure enough, that's what she had.

I would be concerned about the bona fide pneumonia or severe bronchitis. IMO this is the kind of a situation when that needs to be addressed, possible with antibiotics, even if you justifiable feel iffy about them. Can you go to urgent care or your doctor's office (avoiding the mainstream hospital setting) and get an x-ray of your lungs and rib? The latter can indeed be cracked from intense coughing, my mother had that happen to her.

Supplements and dietary changes are great for long-term lifestyle and health goals, and for certain infections. Pneumonia though IMO calls for more serious measures. In the pre-antibiotic times, pneumonia was a major cause of morbidity and mortality. An acquaintance's teen daughter had an undiagnosed pneumonia and died suddenly from a ruptured pulmonary abscess; for me that has been a powerful reminder of what such infections can do.

The successful "natural" treatment for pneumonia and bronchitis long time ago included full bed rest for a long time, and sounds like you aren't doing that either -- which is understandable given that you are so busy and have so much responsibility, and there's nobody to take care of YOU while you are taking care of everybody else.

I can very much relate to the feeling of being the only one taking care of the kids, and the kids depending on me fully. Were I in your shoes, the fear of not being able to do it -- of not being there for them -- would have outweighed my fear of antibiotics.

I would definitely go back and get an antibiotic. In a low-probability event that this infection is antibiotic-resistant, I would have then tried something different. In a mean time I would have continued with a natural regiment (minus olive leaf extract, as it interferes with antibiotic function) to assist my healing and later to continue cleansing my body gently.

whatever you choose, good health to you,
 
Hildegarda said:
I would be concerned about the bona fide pneumonia or severe bronchitis. IMO this is the kind of a situation when that needs to be addressed, possible with antibiotics, even if you justifiable feel iffy about them. Can you go to urgent care or your doctor's office (avoiding the mainstream hospital setting) and get an x-ray of your lungs and rib? The latter can indeed be cracked from intense coughing, my mother had that happen to her.
Click to expand...

Sound advice there, Hildegarda.
 
You do make a good point. There is an urgent care a few miles a way. I don't have any health insurance, but better to pay a lot than actually die. I hadn't been to the doctor for over 13 years. I had my children at home. Haven't ever been this sick in my life.

In 'high mortality rate' it's around 18% of my age group (early 30s). Not sure how accurate these stats are. I suppose that should be enough to scare me either way. Thanks for the opposite view. I'm going to go one more night, and if I'm feeling the same or worse, I'll make an appointment in the morning and let my babysitter take care of the kids while I'm gone.

Until then, I'll keep trying to rest as much as possible (during the hour naps the kids get).

Thanks all. Thoughts are all appreciated.

Hildegarda said:
Dawn, what you have sounds a bit more then walking pneumonia. My daughter had it and I would never know, as she never had a fever, only coughed at night and was just a bit more tired then usual. Only because I knew she was exposed to it (a friend was diagnosed a couple of weeks earlier), I took her in and sure enough, that's what she had.

I would be concerned about the bona fide pneumonia or severe bronchitis. IMO this is the kind of a situation when that needs to be addressed, possible with antibiotics, even if you justifiable feel iffy about them. Can you go to urgent care or your doctor's office (avoiding the mainstream hospital setting) and get an x-ray of your lungs and rib? The latter can indeed be cracked from intense coughing, my mother had that happen to her.

Supplements and dietary changes are great for long-term lifestyle and health goals, and for certain infections. Pneumonia though IMO calls for more serious measures. In the pre-antibiotic times, pneumonia was a major cause of morbidity and mortality. An acquaintance's teen daughter had an undiagnosed pneumonia and died suddenly from a ruptured pulmonary abscess; for me that has been a powerful reminder of what such infections can do.

The successful "natural" treatment for pneumonia and bronchitis long time ago included full bed rest for a long time, and sounds like you aren't doing that either -- which is understandable given that you are so busy and have so much responsibility, and there's nobody to take care of YOU while you are taking care of everybody else.

I can very much relate to the feeling of being the only one taking care of the kids, and the kids depending on me fully. Were I in your shoes, the fear of not being able to do it -- of not being there for them -- would have outweighed my fear of antibiotics.

I would definitely go back and get an antibiotic. In a low-probability event that this infection is antibiotic-resistant, I would have then tried something different. In a mean time I would have continued with a natural regiment (minus olive leaf extract, as it interferes with antibiotic function) to assist my healing and later to continue cleansing my body gently.

whatever you choose, good health to you,
Click to expand...
 
Dawn said:
You do make a good point. There is an urgent care a few miles a way. I don't have any health insurance, but better to pay a lot than actually die. I hadn't been to the doctor for over 13 years. I had my children at home. Haven't ever been this sick in my life.
Click to expand...

gosh, that's hard. Ok, here's what else to consider.

Number one, as you get in, say right away that you are a cash patient and ask if they can give you a better rate. Oftentimes, in an urgent care that's affiliated with the physician practice, they will. In a walk-in clinic like Doctors Now, where they don't take insurance, I am not sure, but it's worth trying.

Number two, if funds are an issue then consider whether X-ray is really necessary. Our health insurance is so bad that we have been paying for all routine health expenses in cash too for years now. I have taken to refusing blood work and chest x-rays if me or my kids have a respiratory infection. The doctor should be able to diagnose pneumonia or bronchiolitis just by listening to your chest, everything else is bells and whistles. If I had made an educated judgment of going to the doctor, that means things are bad enough to warranty receiving the meds that only the doctor can provide. Last thing I want is having to pay three digits for blood work and chest x-ray only to be told "you have a viral infection, go home and drink plenty of fluids and come back if you feel worse". What I found is that my kids pediatrician would raise a stink about it -- they must be taking seriously the threat of over-prescribing of the antibiotics, and that's commendable, but the way it works financially for me doesn't do me any good. Whereas in urgent care, they know that if you came to them, you are sick as a dog and want to get a relief and get out fast. So there, it works. Even if they say, "well, this sounds like bronchitis, but could be pneumonia, let's do chest x-rays", I say, "you'll give me antibiotics any way, right? can we just skip it then", or I'll say, "why don't you give me\my kid an antibiotic prescription and if I\she don't get better within a couple of days, I'll fill it", and they often say OK. This way I feel prepared when I get home, and then I sometimes end up filling the prescription and sometimes don't, depending on the situation. Obviously, if they were to take a listen and say, "oh boy, that's serious", then taking X-rays may be a good idea, but just go with the situation.

With the rib, the same thing. Ask if the rib may be cracked, what they can figure out with just palpation or observing you taking a breath, or whatever. If they say it may be and want an x-ray, say "if it were cracked, what would you do? may be you can instruct me to do it either way, without an x-ray". I think they just bandage it tightly with a cloth strip and instruct you to limit activities, that's it. So these would be ways to minimize your expenses and getting most out of your doctor's visit, fwiw.

In 'high mortality rate' it's around 18% of my age group (early 30s). Not sure how accurate these stats are. I suppose that should be enough to scare me either way.
Click to expand...


that's if you assume you have one of those severe hospital-acquired pneumonias, which may not be the case anyway. Getting off alcohol, drastically changing the diet and spending time away from home in a busy, unfamiliar, and not the most comfortable place can lower a person's defenses enough to succumb to any bug. You are doing so many good things for yourself already, no harm in having more ammunition at your disposal. Hang in there and good luck!
 
Add a pinch of bicarbonate when you drink a glass of water, will balance the acidity of your body and yes, go to a doctor.
 
Hi Dawn.
I am glad to hear that you dealt with your drinking probelm.
You really need to see a doctor about your current health situation. Many hospitals have charity care. If you live in Pennsylvania, you could try to get medical assistance to cover the costs. Our local hospitals have caseworkers to help with the applications.
We all hope you feel better soon.
 
Hi Dawn,

So sorry to hear you are feeling so lousy. I do not want to discourage you from getting antibiotics and or seeing a doctor, as that may well be your best course, but I would like to offer you some more options.

No matter what other treatment you pursue. Start drinking Nettles tea ASAP. Just keep brewing it and drinking it. It will help to clear out your lungs and make your coughs more productive without trying so hard. It is pretty inexpensive and can make a dramatic difference. In addition, do not cough when you are lying on your back. [great way to bust a rib and or exasperate what may be even just a hairline fracture. Someone else mentioned getting your ribs wrapped. Good idea, weather it is fractured or not.]

Astragalus enhances immunity and increases the amount of oxygen available to the body. 500mg of standardized Astragalus extract, 3x a day and then once the acute phase passes, 500mg 4x a day for 3 weeks; helps the body to regenerate bronchial cells.

Since pneumonia can be viral, bacterial, fungal or Mycoplasma (aka 'walking pneumonia'; It is a bacteria with a missing cell-wall that has been joined to a virus. In other words, killing the bacteria alone would still leave you with the viral component.), you would need a full spectrum anti-microbial. Grapefruit Seed Extract can be pretty powerful on all of these things. 125mg 2x a day for the first 3 days, then 3x a day for 3 days, then increase the dosage if you feel it is needed, but do not go beyond 250mg per dose. It is very important to increase the dosage incrementally, as the die-off effect is going to knock you on your ptooty (the astragalus will help with the fatigue, too).

Just like antibiotics, this stuff kills off the friendly bacteria in your gut, so a good pro-biotic will still be important. Renew Life makes a good one with 10 species of friendlies and a 50 billion count per capsule. Try to take it as far away from your natural or pharmaceutical antibiotic as possible, and if possible ... on an empty stomach with plenty of nettles tea (or water).

Hope you recover soon. Keep in mind that once you do, you will be vulnerable to respiratory infections more prominently over the next 2 to 3 months, so take every precaution to stay well, avoiding sugar, alcohol and dairy at the very least.

Let me know if you have any questions.
~Lar
 
Thanks everyone. I'd respond to you all individually, however it's 8pm and I've gotta rest. Sad I have so few friends around. I asked one of my 'family friends' who is 68 what would happen if I had to go to the ER for treatment. He said to call family services. :(

Anyway enough self pity, I hope to wake up to only a fractured rib. I can't even lift my kids or pour juice right now. Arrrggg how frustrating!

Thanks guy, I'll keep you updated as to what happens tomorrow. Great advice everyone!!
 
Hello Dawn,

Pneumonia that develops within 10 days after hospitalization, is considered to be "hospital-acquired". Hopefully the measures already recommended and enough rest will pull you out of this one. But keep in mind, that in case of pneumonia, it might be then a "hard core bug".

In order to reduce the pain from your ribs (so you can breath in and out better and expel everything that accumulates in your chest), you can put a broad tape on top of the area where is more painful, longitudinally, it will help with the pain and the inflammation. Make sure that the tape covers all the surface of maximum pain and even more. You can get the tape in the pharmacy. Also, as someone already said, when you cough support your chest either by hugging a pillow or like "hugging yourself" strongly while coughing, crossing your arms in front of your sternum, with each hand holding your shoulders so as to give your bony chest the maximum support while coughing.

If you find trouble in coughing out stuff, there is always N-acetylcysteine (NAC) from the pharmacy that should be relatively cheap, it is called Mucomyst and its sold in pharmacies as an "expectorant". No need of prescription, you can take 2 envelopes of 200mg, 3 or 4 times per day. NAC has also been discussed in the forum as a powerful antioxidant that is helpful in numerous conditions.

It will take you some time to build up resistance and a healthier immune/defense system, so don't hesitate to get medical care if you don't get better with the measures recommended and taken so far. Let us know how it goes, hopefully there are other medical system tips like the ones Hildegarda suggested available. I've had worked for medical systems where everybody has a right to free health care, even when the medical system per se is collapsing from poverty. So I'm very sorry to hear about your situation, the US medical system is about the most evil medical system ever.
 
Well all, I bit the bullet and went to urgent care this afternoon. I was 'interviewed' by four different doctors at different times asking for my symptoms. They use this weird computerized clip board to select the symptoms, and I guess it gives them the possible answers, plus the possible medications they could use. I admit I haven't been to a place like Urgent Care before, but really? I want that job.

One 'main doctor' actually said (and I was prepared to argue against xrays, and cheaper rates thanks to Hildegarda's suggestions....) "I want to keep this as inexpensive as possible, so perhaps we can skip the xrays?" They didn't conclude if it is a bad case of Bronchitis with Pleurisy, or (a type of) Pneumonia, with a cracked rib. The treatment is the same for both. So I've got antibiotics, (Azithromycin 5 day dose) and some pain meds, along with a few treatments that after I've did some research this afternoon, probably won't touch with a ten foot poll!!!!

I was surprised how easy it was and how oddly (at least to me), they didn't do any tests other than use the stethoscope while I was to 'breath deep.' and take my temp. My lungs are raspy nearly always and my temp was 101.7.

Also I picked up some Pro-Biotic called Accuflora. I don't have money now that I've went to the doctor to go to the health food store.. I can say though, even with my confidence that I could have beat this myself, it would have drew it out a lot longer without the ability to rest stress free for 2-3 days. I love my kids, but they are 11 months, 3 years and 4 years. There is literally no rest. :)

(((HUGS ALL))))
 
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