Perception or Premonition?

A

a.saccus

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Has anyone had an experience like this? It has happened to me twice in the past six months.

I make my living as a home healthcare aide, and, as many of my clients are elderly, their passing away is a sad but not totally unexpected outcome I must deal with on occasion.

Last Monday, a gentleman in his early 90's that I had cared for two days a week for the past four months passed away. I had cared for him and last saw him on the day before he died, and he seemed fine: he walked well, had a good appetite, spoke and thought clearly, and was in good spirits.

After breakfast, he lay down on the sofa and took a little nap. I sat in a chair nearby reading. He lived alone in a trailer in a peaceful part of a wooded area. The sky was overcast but there were no artificial lights on in the room. I chanced to look up from my reading one time as I was turning a page and then paused to look over at him. He was resting peacefully, breathing quietly. I was myself calm and at ease.

What I'm going to try to describe now is something that I class as a sensation or a perception, not a figment of my imagination or expectation of my own, or my own sensory malfunction:

His face suddenly looked "different" for an instant. There was a brief sense almost of a "double-exposure" over his face. And then it "settled down"back onto his face, and his face looked "different" afterwards, but I would be very hard pressed to say in what way. It was only his face that was affected.

That's the only way I can think to describe it: a very distinct perceptual change had come over his face for a moment. It wasn't a physical movement, for he was perfectly still. It wasn't a change in the lighting in the room. It wasn't that he turned flush or pale; it was a three-dimensional semi-transparent phenomenon.

Later in the morning he had a visitor, and he seemed his old self. The next day was my day off, and he passed away.

I might have written this all off as my imagination, except for three reasons.

One, it was clearly of the nature of a perception. It was a distinct event. I had no thought in my mind of his immanent passing and was not worried about his health.

Two, I had the same type of experience with another gentleman that I took care of for almost a year. He died a week after I had the experience, and in his case also, his health was quite robust and I had no expectation of him passing anytime in the near future.

Three, I have never had the experience with anyone else -- whether they died or not. Thus I can't see it as a reliable sign or pre-knowledge of someone's death. But in the two cases where I did see something, the person passed.

Any ideas what this might be, or has anyone heard of something like it?
 
I had a slightly different experience. This happened a couple of years ago. I had gone for my regular haircut and arriving at the salon, I observed a very old gentlemen waiting with, I had assumed, his son, for a haircut. He hardly had any hair to talk about and I thought he was well into his eighties. He looked very fragile but seem to be in good health and smiling. I returned his smile and sort of nodded at him. For the rest of the day, I couldn't get him off my mind. The next morning, I saw his picture in the obituary in the local newspaper. Seems like he somehow knew. I have always wondered why I couln't get him off my mind. Premonition maybe?
 
Your post seems to catch the same,odd elusiveness of the experience.

Can you remember, after all this time, any specific visual experience connected with it?

Vulcan59 said:
For the rest of the day, I couldn't get him off my mind.
Can you remember exactly what it was you couldn't get off your mind? Was it an image, or a thought, or what?

Thanks. C
 
Well, it has been a while ago, but I distinctly remember the image of him. Somehow that serene look, his smile and generally his movements, slow and steady but with a purpose. I can still picture it clearly in my mind like as if it was just yesterday that I saw him!!
 
My Dad told me about this a couple of times. Once it was him who saw it, and then someone else told him about it - seeing "death" on someones face. In both cases the people they saw died within a week. I don't know much more about it, it was described very similar to how you desribed it Saccus - kind of "it was just different". Maybe its possible that on some kind of subconscious level people know when they are near death (even if it isn't natural causes)?
 
In Symbols and the Interpretation of dreams said:
I particularly remember the case of a man who was himself a psychiatrist. He brought me a handwritten booklet he had received as a Christmas present from his ten-year-old daughter. It contained a whole series of dreams she had had when she was eight years old. It was the weirdest series I had ever seen, and I could well understand why her father was more than puzzled by the dreams.
To summarize, her dreams have such themes as destruction and restoration, heaven and hell, the origins of the world and mankind.

When I first read the dreams, I had the uncanny feeling that they foreboded disaster. The reason I felt like that was the peculiar nature of the compensation that I deduced from the symbolism. It was the opposite of what one would expect to find in the consciousness of a girl of that age. These dreams open up a new and rather terrifying vision of life and death, such as one might expect in someone who looks back upon life rather than forward to its natural continuation.
And as happened she died of an infectious disease about a year after that Christmas. So this little girl had a foreshadowing of some kind.

Now, Jung talks about this case for four pages, and I'm nowhere near a scanner right now, but if somebody's interested in reading those four pages I can probably scan it in a few days.

On the anecdotal side, I have been close to one 2d being prior to its unexpected death, and in his few last weeks he was much more affectionate than usual, and his attitude and behavior were different. This was before I read the abovementioned book, but I had the clear idea that he had known it somehow. I, on the other hand, had not the slightest clue (consciously, at least).

Russ said:
Maybe its possible that on some kind of subconscious level people know when they are near death (even if it isn't natural causes)?
That seemed to be Jung's take:

Experience shows that the unknown approach of death casts an adumbratio, an anticipatory shadow, over the life and dreams of the victim.
 
A while before my Great-Uncle died of cancer (I think it was unexpected), my aunt said that she heard him mumbling something in his sleep about putting on a glowing orange jumper and seeing a "boundary in the distance" which if crossed wouldn't let him return.

I know also that my grandfather told my Dad not to come to hospital the following Sunday, because he said that would be the day he died. My Dad just shrugged it off and told him not to be so ridiculous. The date came, and he had to go fill the car up with petrol and he paid something like £9.15, and it turned out that was the exact time his father died. I think that's right; in any event, some number that he saw coincided with the time of death.

A few people have mentioned this about relatives suddenly having an impression about when they are going to die after suffering from a terminal illness, and then it being correct.
 
Slightly different to your interesting accounts. I used to stare at myself in the mirror for prolonged periods and whilst doing this, eventually my eyes became wrinkled and my face would become that of an old man. I thought it a projection of my mind in an environment which I had defined. Regardless of this it instintively made me feel it was me as an old man, or me in another previous incarnation. I am not really sure. Try it. It is weird, but if you lose yourself in your eyes it pretty much allways warps your face into something else.
I am going to test that theory again today--I shall report back
P.s my Grandfather died on his birthday.That is a commen phenomenon.
 
For Prayers and anyone else interested, I will probably be able to scan it early next week like monday/tuesday. My apologies for the delay - it's one of those "location" things; in any case I found it to be a real interesting case study.

If nobody minds I'll put it on this thread, as it seems to fit. :)
 
Here goes:

Jung said:
525 I particularly remember the case of a man who was himself a
psychiatrist. He brought me a handwritten booklet he had received as a Christmas present from his ten-year-old daughter. It contained a whole series of dreams she had had when she was
eight years old. It was the weirdest series I had ever seen, and I could well understand why her father was more than puzzled by the dreams. Childlike though they were, they were a bit uncanny, containing images whose origin was wholly incomprehensible to her father. Here are the salient motifs from the
dreams:2

1. The "bad animal": a snakelike monster with many horns, that
kills and devours ail other animals. But God comes from the four
corners, being really four gods, and gives rebirth to all the animals.
2. Ascent into heaven where pagan dances are being celebrated,
and descent to hell where angels are doing good deeds.
3. A horde of small animals frightens the dreamer. The animals
grow to enormous size, and one of them devours her.
4. A small mouse is penetrated by worms, snakes, fishes, and human beings. Thus the mouse becomes human. This is the origin of mankind in four stages.
5. A drop of water is looked at through a microscope: it is full of branches. This is the origin of the world.
6. A bad boy with a clod of earth. He throws bits of it at the passers-by, and they all become bad too.
7. A drunken woman falls into the water and comes out sober and renewed.
8. In America many people are rolling in an ant heap, attacked by the ants. The dreamer, in a panic, falls into a river.
9. The dreamer is in a desert on the moon. She sinks so deep into the ground that she reaches hell.
10. She touches a luminous ball seen in a vision. Vapours come out of it. Then a man comes and kills her.
11. She is dangerously ill. Suddenly birds come out of her skin and cover her completely.
12. Swarms of gnats hide the sun, moon, and stars, all except one star which then falls on the dreamer.
526 In the unabridged German original, each dream begins with the words of the fairytale: "Once upon a time . . ." With these words the little dreamer suggests that she feels as if each dream were a sort of fairytale, which she wants to tell her father as a Christmas present. Her father was unable to elucidate the dreams through their context, for there seemed to be no personal associations. Indeed, this kind of childhood dream often seems to be a "Just So Story," with very few or no spontaneous associations. The possibility that these dreams were conscious elaborations can of course be ruled out only by someone who had an intimate knowledge of the child's character and did not doubt her truthfulness. They would, however, remain a challenge to our understanding even if they were fantasies that originated in the waking state. The father was convinced that they were authentic, and I have no reason to doubt it. I knew the little girl myself, but this was before she gave the dreams to her father, and I had no chance to question her about them, for she lived far away from Switzerland and died of an infectious disease about a year after that Christmas.
527 The dreams have a decidedly peculiar character, for their leading thoughts are in a way like philosophical problems. The first dream, for instance, speaks of an evil monster killing ail other animals, but God gives rebirth to them through a kind of apocatastasis, or restitution. In the Western world this idea is known through Christian tradition. It can be found in the Acts of the Apostles 3:21: "(Christ,) whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of ail things . . ." The early Greek Fathers of the Church (Origen, for instance) particularly insisted on the idea that, at the end of time, everything will be restored by the Redeemer to its original and perfect state. Ac-cording to Matthew 17:11, there was already an old Jewish tradition that Elias "truly shall first come, and restore ail things." I Corinthians 15:22 refers to the same idea in the following words: "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

One might argue that the child had met with this thought in her religious education. But she had had very little of this, as her parents (Protestants) belonged to those people, common enough in our days, who know the Bible only from hearsay. It is particularly unlikely that the idea of apocatastasis had been explained to her, and had become a matter of vital interest. Her father, at any rate, was entirely unaware of this mythical idea.
Nine of the twelve dreams are concerned with the theme of destruction and restoration. We find the same connection in I Corinthians 15:22, where Adam and Christ^ i.e., death and resurrection, are linked together. None of these dreams, however, shows anything more than superficial traces of a specifically Christian education or influence. On the contrary, they show more analogy with primitive tales. This is corroborated by the other motif-the cosmogonic myth of the creation of the world and of man, which appears in dreams 4 and 5.
The idea of Christ the Redeemer belongs to the world-wide and pre-Christian motif of the hero and rescuer who, although devoured by the monster, appears again in a miraculous way, having overcome the dragon or whale or whatever it was that swallowed him. How, when, and where such a motif originated nobody knows. We do not even know how to set about investigating the problem in a sound way. Our only certainty is that every generation, so far as we can see, bas found it as an old tradition. Thus we can safely assume that the motif "originated" at a time when man did not yet know that he possessed a hero myth-in an age, therefore, when he did not yet reflect consciously on what he was saying. The hero figure is a typical image, an archetype, which has existed since time immemorial.
531 The best examples of the spontaneous production of archetypal images are presented by individuals, particularly children, who live in a milieu where one can be sufficiently certain that any direct knowledge of the tradition is out of the question. The milieu in which our little dreamer lived was acquainted only with the Christian tradition, and very superficially at that. Christian traces may be represented in her dreams by such ideas as God, angels, heaven, hell, and evil, but the way in which they are treated points to a tradition that is entirely non-Christian.
532 Let us take the first dream, of the God who really consists of four gods, coming from the "four corners." The corners of what? There is no room mentioned in the dream. A room would not even fit in with the picture of what is obviously a cosmic event, in which the Universal Being himself intervenes. The quaternity itself is a strange idea, but one that plays a great role in Eastern religions and philosophies. In the Christian tradition it has been superseded by the Trinity, a notion that we must assume was known to the child. But who in an ordinary middle-class milieu would be likely to know of a divine quaternity? It is an idea that was once current in circles acquainted with Hermetic philosophy in the Middle Ages, but it petered out at the beginning of the eighteenth century and has been entirely obsolete for at least two hundred years. Where, then, did the little girl pick it up? From Ezekiel's vision? But there is no Christian teaching that identifies the seraphim with God.
533 The same question may be asked about the horned serpent. In the Bible, it is true, there are many horned animals, for instance in the Book of Revelation (ch. 13). But they seem to be quadrupeds, although their overlord is the dragon, which in Greek (drakori) means serpent. The horned serpent appears in Latin alchemy as the quadricornutus serpens (four-horned serpent), a symbol of Mercurius and an antagonist of the Christian Trinity. But this is an obscure reference, and, as far as I can discover, it occurs only in one author.3
534 In dream 2 a motif appears that is definitely non-Christian and a reversal of values: pagan dances by men in heaven and


good deeds by angels in hell. This suggests, if anything, a relativization of moral values. Where did the child hit on such a revolutionary and modem idea, worthy of Nietzsche's genius? Such an idea is not strange to the philosophical mind of the East, but where could we find it in the child's milieu, and what is its place in the mind of an eight-year-old girl?
535 This question leads to a further one: what is the compensatory meaning of the dreams, to which the little girl obviously attributed so much importance that she gave them to her father as a Christmas present?
536 If the dreamer had been a primitive medicine-man, one would not go far wrong in supposing them to be variations on the philosophical themes of death, resurrection, or restitution, the origin of the world, the creation of man, and the relativity of values (Lao-tze: "high stands on low"). One might well give up such dreams as hopeless if one tried to interpret them from a personal standpoint. But, as I have said, they undoubtedly contain representations collectives, and they are in a way analogous to the doctrines taught to young people in primitive tribes when they are initiated into manhood. At such times they learn about what God or the gods or the "founding" animals have done, how the world and man were created, what the end of the world will be, and the meaning of death. And when do we, in our Christian civilization, hand out similar instructions? At the beginning of adolescence. But many people begin to think of these things again in old age, at the approach of death.
537 Our dreamer, as it happened, was in both these situations, for she was approaching puberty and at the same time the end of her life. Little or nothing in the symbolism of the dreams points to the beginning of a normal adult life, but there are many allusions to destruction and restoration. When I first read the dreams, I had the uncanny feeling that they foreboded disaster. The reason I felt like that was the peculiar nature of the compensation that I deduced from the symbolism. It was the opposite of what one would expect to find in the consciousness of a girl of that age. These dreams open up a new and rather terrifying vision of life and death, such as one might expect in someone who looks back upon life rather than forward to its natural continuation. Their atmosphere recalls the old Roman saying, vita somnium brève (life is a short dream), rather than the joy and exuberance of life's springtime. For this child, life was a ver sacrum vovendum, a vow of a vernal sacrifice. Experience shows that the unknown approach of death casts an adumbratio, an anticipatory shadow, over the life and dreams of the victim Even the altar in our Christian churches represents, on the one hand, a tomb, and on the other a place of resurrection-the transformation of death into eternal life.
Such are the thoughts that the dreams brought home to the child. They were a preparation for death, expressed through short stories, like the instruction at primitive initiations, or the koans of Zen Buddhism. It is an instruction that does not resemble the orthodox Christian doctrine but is more like primitive thought. It seems to have originated outside the historical tradition, in the matrix that, since prehistoric times, has nourished philosophical and religious speculations about life and death.
In the case of this girl, it was as if future events were casting their shadow ahead by arousing thought-forms that, though normally dormant, are destined to describe or accompany the approach of a fatal issue. They are to be found everywhere and at all times. Although the concrete shape in which they express themselves is more or less personal, their general pattern is collective, just as animal instincts vary a good deal in different species and yet serve the same general purpose. We do not assume that each newborn animal creates its own instincts as an individual acquisition, and we cannot suppose, either, that human beings invent and produce their specifically human modes of reaction with every new birth. Like the instincts, the collective thought-patterns of the human mind are innate and inherited; and they function, when occasion arises, in more or less the same way in all of us.


* [For another analysis of this case, see Jacobi, CompkxlArchétype!Symbol (1959), Part
'!---- EDITORS.]

3 [Gérard Dorn, of Frankfurt, a i7th-century physician and alchemist.]
I left in the paragraph numbers in case someone wants to find the passage in another edition. It's two pages into the fifth chapter, "The Archetype in Dream Symbolism"
 
Hello all,

Similar things have happened to me on several occasions. First, when my mother started complaining of a bad headache (she had them regularly), I told a friend that my mom was going to die soon. There was no obvious reason for me to have said such a thing. She went to the doctor, and long story short, she had an aneurism which burst before they could do surgery. This happened six weeks after I told my friend it was going to.

Fast forward 12 years. I was living in San Francisco, 3,000 miles away from my father. I had a job downtown, and every morning I would go to a certain shop for a cup of coffee. This entailed crossing a street where I usually had to wait on the light to change. Every morning for two weeks, while waiting for the light to change, I noticed an old gentleman waiting across the street from me. He was dressed as if on his way to work, and was well groomed. Yet when the light would change, HE WOULD NEVER CROSS THE STREET. He just stood there at the crosswalk. At the end of the two weeks, I got the call that my father had passed away. I flew home to take care of things and was gone for another two weeks. When I got back into the routine, I never saw the old gentleman again. My personal belief is that he was some sort of "fetch," there to warn of my dad's unexpected passing.

Both of these instances were surrounded with other unusual happenings, like hearing music no one else could hear, or the walls appearing fluid to my vision. I guess my senses were heightened.

And there are a few other, similar stories that I won't bore you with. :)

I've read the story about the little girl that Jung told. It will make the hair on your neck stand up.

Cheers, G
 
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