Orka

Alana

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I was reading Ben's Symbols post and it reminded me of a dream i had early last spring, which still lingers vivid in my memory:

I am in a big 2 story big yet simple house, from another era. I am on the top floor with people I perceive as my family, and we are there to see an relative, grandfather or something. I go downstairs and I see that unlike upstairs, it's much brighter here, the light pouring in from the windows blonde gold. I go outside walk on the sand and I am next to the beach. I enter the water (despite the people who pass by and think that it's too cold for the beach) and I start swimming. When I am deep, an Orka comes near me and we seem to "recognize" each other. I sit on her back and there's so much love, affection and connection between us. She rides me fast and far out into the ocean and I feel completely free. Then I get off her back and I dive in the water where all is dark, and I can't see anything. But a shiny little fish appears in front of me and I follow it deep in the waters.

I woke up as if ...new and fresh! I'd appreciate any feedback.

Irini
 
Pretty straightforward dream in my opinion.

The house with relatives represents the vehicle of your bloodline, the upper portions being the conscious aspects, which the grandfather and the old style of the house representing ancestry. The downstairs is a deeper more unconscious level, and the fact that the light is gold and shines there, indicates that it is light of deep genetic activation.

The others perceiving the water as being cold reveals they cannot enter it, as warmth comes from the golden light of activation, and they do not have this. The water itself is the "dreamtime" or interdimensional medium connected to your blood, which is the portal to it.

The Orca is another aspect of self, rather interdimensional and not individual self. It's more than just a psychological construct, in other words. The connection with the Orca is indicative of self-recognition and kinship between interdimensional aspects encountering each other. This strong self native to this dreamtime medium takes you into the unknown where you could have never gone alone, and that dynamic of beiong carried is a function of genetic activation providing protection for entering the unknown.

It is in this unknown where the shiney fish appears, and this is the real treasure of activation, to lead you to the next step. You can reference the Rider-Wait Tarot deck for a similar image in the Page of Cups, the story of the Fisherman and his Wife regarding the talking fish that gives wishes, and even the Christian symbol of Ichthys (ΙΧΘΥΣ) to understand this better.
 
I thank you for your reply EsoQuest.

EQ: The house with relatives represents the vehicle of your bloodline, the upper portions being the conscious aspects, which the grandfather and the old style of the house representing ancestry. The downstairs is a deeper more unconscious level, and the fact that the light is gold and shines there, indicates that it is light of deep genetic activation.

I: i too felt that the upper and lower level of the house represent the conscious and unconscious parts of me respectively, but i never thought of the genetic/bloodline aspects you refer to. But because i don't understand what it means either, for now i'll just store it in my memory! And only last night i read Gurdjieff saying that you can't make gold (in alchemy) unless you already have a bit of it first. Does this mean i have gold? Which would mean, i could make gold! Well, after a long and arduous process of course! but i could make gold! :)

EQ: The Orca is another aspect of self, rather interdimensional and not individual self. It's more than just a psychological construct, in other words. The connection with the Orca is indicative of self-recognition and kinship between interdimensional aspects encountering each other. This strong self native to this dreamtime medium takes you into the unknown where you could have never gone alone, and that dynamic of beiong carried is a function of genetic activation providing protection for entering the unknown.

I: I felt too that the Orka is an interdimentional aspect of my self, but i was rather worried that she is a killer whale, who is truly from the dolfin family, but feeds on dolfins occasionally too (i learned once through a national geographic program)! The protection i felt it too in the dream, because i felt i could trust her to take me anywhere! But i wonder if she is an aspect of me i should be trusting. I am a bit paranoid regarding physical and hyperdimentional realities lately. :/ And now that the unknown becomes a bit known to me is more scary than when it was still unknown...

EQ: It is in this unknown where the shiney fish appears, and this is the real treasure of activation, to lead you to the next step. You can reference the Rider-Wait Tarot deck for a similar image in the Page of Cups, the story of the Fisherman and his Wife regarding the talking fish that gives wishes, and even the Christian symbol of Ichthys (ΙΧΘΥΣ) to understand this better.

I: regarding the first sentence of the above, i am afraid i don't understand it, but it must be because i don't know the talking fish story. I own a Tarot deck by Lady Harris, which i got because i liked the pictures, but then trying to read a bit of Aliester Crowley, it produced that dizziness and confusion that i associate with STS influenced individuals, so i just put both the book and the deck away! But i remember that it's the two of cups in this deck that contains two fish, the card representing Love.

Is this the talking fish story btw?

http://www.armeniapedia.org/index.php?title=Hovhannes_Tumanian:_The_Talking_Fish
 
Irene said:
i too felt that the upper and lower level of the house represent the conscious and unconscious parts of me respectively, but i never thought of the genetic/bloodline aspects you refer to. But because i don't understand what it means either, for now i'll just store it in my memory!
Well, the lower unconscious level simply has its root in the body conscoiusness, and that is based directly on our cellular and genetic energies. So, the upper level is conscious awareness, and the lower level is cellular awareness, the foundation of the upper (unless there is a basement level to this house as well). My assessment was based on combining all the symbols of the dream, which seem to support it, IMO.

Irene said:
But i wonder if she is an aspect of me i should be trusting. I am a bit paranoid regarding physical and hyperdimentional realities lately. And now that the unknown becomes a bit known to me is more scary than when it was still unknown...
It seems to fit, that the strength of the Orca is a guarantee that you are protected in the unknown. Of course, the Orca (and any powerful animal for that matter), is frightening when turned against us. But when we are afraid, and move through a dream layer that apparently corresponds to deep instinctual nature, the only thing of that realm that can protect us is something representing the power of that realm within us.

So you may just be afraid of your own strength, which is always a double bladed edge. Orcas can be viscious, but so is any meat eater. And Orcas are actually very intelligent and can also be gentle. Actually, the ones eating dolphins are ususually packs of adolescent males (like Orca versions of street gangs). In multi-gender packs, hunting seals and dophins is not common (I also saw a few documentaries ;) ).

Irene said:
I: regarding the first sentence of the above, i am afraid i don't understand it, but it must be because i don't know the talking fish story.
I guess that story you linked is one version. That fish gave information. The version I had in mind, however, is this one.

http://www.fln.vcu.edu/grimm/fischer_e.html

And the Tarot symbol is not prevalent in the Crowley Deck. I had one, BTW, and gave it away. Anyway, the fish is a symbol of organic wisdom in many esoteric teachings. It is the wisdom of evolution, and the gifts it conceals. The gifts of the blood line in some people.
 
JUst to add to EQ's comments - it may interest you to know that an Orca is the largest species of dolphin, not a whale as its common name suggests. To me therefore they would represent something similar to a 'normal' dolphin, but maybe with a 'dark side'. Also it may be related to this that their colours are black and white.
 
Thanks Ben! I knew Orka is from the dolfin family, but i never thought about the dark/light compared to it's colours.

EsoQuest, this is an interesting story which speaks to me right now, but how does it relate to my dream, i don't understand :|
 
It just shows the power and wisdom of the fish, as does the story to which you linked.
 
Irini,

I made a few notes through what you have written............


"I was reading Ben's Symbols post and it reminded me of a dream i had early last spring, which still lingers vivid in my memory:

I am in a big 2 story big yet simple house, from another era. A TWO STORY HOUSE MAY REPRESENT YOU! ... THE BOTTOM FLOOR BEING YOUR SUBCONSCIOUS ... THE SECOND FLOOR BEING YOUR CONSCIOUS SPIRIT NOW, WHO JUST WROTE THIS E-MAIL. HOW WAS THE ROOF? PERHAPS YOU MAY HAVE HAD NO ROOF- SIMPLY BECAUSE THE SUPERCONSCIOUS SPIRIT CAN NOT BE CONTAINED WITHIN THIS OBJECTIVE LEVEL... IT WOULD BE WRONG TO TRY AND CONTAIN THAT ENERGY!

"I am on the top floor with people I perceive as my family" THIS MAY BE YOUR CELESTIAL FAMILY .... YOUR TRUE BROTHERS AND SISTERS! HOWEVER THIS YOU WOULD NOT PERCEIVE ... YOU WOULD SIMPLY "KNOW."

"..., and we are there to see an relative, grandfather or something". YES, A GRANDFATHER & GRANDMOTHER(?) ... the male and feminine energy ... your "TIME PARENTS", who are there to guide, nuture and protect you. They we're there when you were born ... they will be there when you die or to help you through your ressurection(sp?) ... there to help you WALK BETWEEN WORLDS ... as we are all doing now!


"I go downstairs and I see that unlike upstairs, it's much brighter here, the light pouring in from the windows blonde gold." NO ... THE LIGHT WILL ALWAYS BE BRIGHTER UPSTAIRS ... THE HIGHER THE FREQUENCY ...THE BRIGHTER THE LIGHT! you are being led away IN THIS EXAMPLE ... ALWAYS GO TO THE LIGHT ... ALLOW NO DISTRATIONS .... "EVER" .... "EVER" ....."EVER" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


Orka comes near me and we seem to "recognize" each other. I sit on her back and there's so much love, affection and connection between us. She rides me fast and far out into the ocean and I feel completely free.
THE FOURTH DIMENSION IS NOW UPON US! I HAVE MET PEOPLE FROM THE FOURTH DIMENSION OR AT LEAST SOME WITH SPIRITS WHO HAVE JUST "WALKED-IN" TO THAT INDIVIDUALS BODY! SOME ARE TRULY BEAUTIFUL.... orka / whale energy can be beautiful. HOWEVER BE CAREFULL FOR THE 4TH DIMENSION IS FULL OF ALL KINDS OF CHARACTERS..., FOR THEY CAN APPEAR EXACTLY AS YOU WISH TO SEE ... SOME ARE TRICKSTERS. THEY TRICKED US BEFORE! ASK YOUR "TIME PARENTS", with the "energy of "CHRIST" or the "CELESTIAL MESSIAH OF LIGHT" TO HELP YOU DISTINGUISH THE RIGHT FROM THE WRONG... THIS IS THE WESTERN SHAMANISTIC WAY! Perhaps we are finding the path between the "tree of life" and the 'tree of death' with Earth as the balancing point.

"But a shiny little fish appears in front of me and I follow it deep in the waters.
I woke up as if ...new and fresh"!

WHY WOULD THE FISH WISH TO LEAD YOU INTO DARKNESS? THE DARKNESS HATES THE LIGHT! FREE, NEW & FRESH ... good ways to feel, BUT there are a few issues you need to resolve yourself, as well as the rest of humanity!

peace & love,
Jehanni
 
Well Jehanni, thanks for your comments, though i begun to realize that ONLY I can decipher the symbols in my dreams, and the only way an outside person can help me is by ASKING me questions that will probe me into finding the meanings from within myself.

Jehanni said:
"I go downstairs and I see that unlike upstairs, it's much brighter here, the light pouring in from the windows blonde gold." NO ... THE LIGHT WILL ALWAYS BE BRIGHTER UPSTAIRS ... THE HIGHER THE FREQUENCY ...THE BRIGHTER THE LIGHT! you are being led away IN THIS EXAMPLE ... ALWAYS GO TO THE LIGHT ... ALLOW NO DISTRATIONS .... "EVER" .... "EVER" ....."EVER" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
You can't say NO to MY dream actually. I was there and saw it, and i have a very good memory and i assure you that upstairs it was darker than it was downstairs. Whatever this might mean.

I am a lousy dream interpretator. But i am the only one who can navigate my unconscious grounds.
 
"You can't say NO to MY dream actually. I was there and saw it, and i have a very good memory and i assure you that upstairs it was darker than it was downstairs. Whatever this might mean".

"I am a lousy dream interpretator. But i am the only one who can navigate my unconscious grounds."

My dear friend Irini,

YES ... IRINI ... YOU ARE SO ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. I CAN ONLY SHARE WITH YOU WHAT I MYSELF HAVE EXPERIENCED. I THEREFORE WILL APPOLOGIZE FOR VENTING MY FEELINGS. I COULD TELL YOU ABOUT HOW I LAY IN A COMMA FOR I MONTH ON A MACHINE BREATHING FOR ME... with my ankles bust up, my ribs broken, my lungs punctured, broken collar bone, severe brain damage .... everything I "had' and "knew" had completely changed in a fraction of a second! WHEN I AWOKE FROM THE COMMA THEY HAD TO STRAP ME TO MY BED TO KEEP ME FROM CAUSING MYSELF DAMAGE! THERE WE"RE GREAT WARS GOING ON! Over the ten years of recovery I had to learn to speak, walk, and do everything of the 37 years I had to learn in my previous life, before the accident, in order to operate in this reality again. WHEN I AWOKE FROM MY COMMA, I THEN HAD THE LIGHT APPEAR ... HOWEVER MY GUIDING SPIRIT CAUSED ME NOT TO TRUST THIS LIGHT.... SO I DIDN'T .... all I can say is the "true light (Christ energy)" showed up, along with the knowledge "knowing" of the "HOLY SPIRIT" .... I can only say I can not describe with words the feelings of the FULLFILLMENT of 'peace' and the 'love' that I felt. This WAS THE "TRUE LIGHT". THE FIRST "LIGHT" WAS A LESSER LIGHT. Please for those who read this ... this was MY EXPERIENCE, so that I could distinguish the difference! This was "for me" to learn ... it does not really apply to and for anyone else... I however will state that this was very obvious to me, based on my ancesteral experience that had been summoned up. Discretion is of the utmost importance! Irini therefore, you are absolutely RIGHT ... I CAN NOT JUDGE YOUR EXPERIENCE,... even though I did.... NOR SHOULD YOU JUDGE MINE ...SO I GUESS THAT WE"RE EVEN EH? :0) I have now shared my experience with you, so use it as you will! Everything comes down to choices doesn't it. The higher and more-ascended (not a word, but it should be) a person gets, then the more choices they will have to make! Even deciding not to make a choice ... is in fact a choice. I believe all light is good ... however, I feel that their are graduations of light. Maybe this graduation will determine the dimension that you "fall out" too, as we ascend as a community! There are degrees of "VIBRATION" along a line. However in this case it would be degrees of graduation in a sphere. In the 4th dimension it would involve yet another dimension of experience. When defining the correct light, I have no words, nor no feelings with which to share with you for ONE can not describe that light in this objective level... YOU SIMPLY MUST EXPERIENCE IT.

If you or anybody can describe it, well then it wasn't the "TRUE LIGHT"

levels of learning ... again are:
1) knowledge
2) Understanding
3) Wisdom
4) Experience ... experience is the best way to learn, so I simply above shared my experience with you. Yours may be a completely different experience, if you work outside of the "Christ energy (agglomeration of the planets messiah's)" ... so Yes I humbly appologize for my ego. After all this is the "thing" that causes many to stay at the understanding level. You can not call yourself wise, which I have learned not to do ... I simply state "be careful"! And yes, have the faith that YOU WILL MAKE IT OVER the abyss... IF you feel that is nesessary?!

We are the coming messiahs :0)

peace & love,
Jehanni

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Thanks for the "be careful" advice. I always try to keep it in mind, thus my answer. I'll start with that:

Jehanni said:
We are the coming messiahs :0)
Wow... That's too much, even for my ego. Though i understand the responsibility of each individual who is seeking (based on an individual free will choice) to find and BE and DO and those who truly KNOW to spread the word (which for them is not felt as responsibility but apart of their Being) i don't think i want to become a messiah! I just want to be Master of Myself if i am ever to do anything else
(in the Gurdjieff/Mouravieff way)

Of what i understand (after some google and dictionary search) Messiah means the anointed by God one, the bringer of peace in the world, the savior.

If you are correct, and we are the coming messiah's, then what are we waiting for? The world is in it's worst condition right now since the beggining of written history. Or should we wait until things get even worst, so we can make a grand entrance? I just finished reading today's SOTT. Have you done it?

Regarding your experience, which truly is Yours, and i have no way of knowing what it's like, yet i'd like to ask you, what if you are enamored with an illusion? I don't know, i am just asking. I have my own experiences that i'd like to understand, while i try not to be led astray by. Did you read Secret History of the World? Chapter 2 deals with the so called experiences and how they are produced. I found it very helpful. Unfortunately i don't have the book here with me now to quote from.

These are some thoughts of mine on what you wrote. I didn't think you were judging my dream. I don't now judge your experience.

Irini
 
Jehanni wrote:
We are the coming messiahs :0)

Irini wrote:
"Wow... That's too much, even for my ego.
If you are correct, and we are the coming messiah's, then what are we waiting for"?

:0)

It's all about graduation of your 3 minds ... 9 bodies. Spirit grants you the gifts, as you progress. However, you do not wish to become a "messiah", which few do! .... However the possibly exists, as we move towards our graduation! So, I certainly do not wish to confuse you about it at this present moment. However ... it is still a case about the story of the "Hatefield's and McCoy's".
This disagreement has gone on for a long time.

As Gandalf wrote: "There never was much hope. Just a fool's hope..."

I'll be forever the FOOL, hoping myself and the Human Race graduates! You however, with your keen interest, may enjoy reading the archives section of http://hoovillecanada.spaces.live.com/ ... for "Illusion" is covered in a poem given. I've included this article so you can decide if you wish to read the HooVille page I've listed. One can not go back to the archives to change anything so this new portion of various pieces of it, is current. There are stories added monthly, but not last month... with many more to be added where it will eventually make sense to the readers.

Irini wrote:

"The world is in its worst condition right now since the beginning of written history".

If you're referring to the last 26,000 years or so, you're right!

.... However, unlike the Jerusalem Bible it does not include the story of Elisha raising a young child from death. This healing event was surely focused into the realm of Yeshuah (Jesus) and his disciples; however Jesus was just a man (unihipili [sub-conscious mind] and uhane [superconscious mind]). His Aumakua (high self, guardian spirit) was the God Essence... A very gifted and courageous man. In Hebrew: Melchizedek, Metatron and the 72 name of God (also Golden Dawn teachings) form a more encompassing collection of consciousness, which ultimately defines the absolute Universal mind and heart. He lived as a human to show the "path" of how we could all graduate our spiritual levels up to his state ... if we so choose too. As noted in the "Tree of Life" writings there is awareness that an individual can gain merit with, that is also based in earlier Aramaic, Hebrew writings. A lot of this material however was carried through the Alpha - Omega times of magnetic, electrical, and sociological collapse by groups that we're not advanced in writing techniques. It should be noted that in the last 26,000-year cycle (appox.) a lot of the languages have been forgotten (for example in Mesopotamia times). They simply passed the teachings down to their children through the Alpha / Omega times by "word of mouth", as used in the aboriginal teachings. Certain individuals, through amassing the correct paths simply acquired the information to carry out the messianic task. Eventually Jesus became one with his High Self! The "Christ" spirit, which he acquired to be put into the consciousness of everyone in this 26,000 year cycle he found in the Tiphareth of the "Tree of Life" teachings (a path to get there). The "Son of God (he always referred to himself as the Son of Man)" wanted us all to evolve the teachings of the son of man, so that this would take us to become the son and daughter of the God and the Goddess. The gifts of the ascension processes are waiting to become part of all of us. It's already there in us and around us. It is now up to the individual to bring his subconscious and conscious aspects together. In the process of bringing the two parts together one can go through many frightening choices when the subconscious mind (old ideas that the subconscious won't let go of) does not always agree with the current teachings of the conscious mind (new ideas your personality is currently forming or currently finally believing). In "Gnostic", "Christen", "Mystery school", "Oriental" , native, aboriginal, Huna, etc. etc., teachings is a main point that "a thought indeed is a thing". So if internal guilt, wrath, or whatever negative thought elects a like emotional response, then surely "strife" will be manifested. NOW, what we think (eg. hate & fear or peace & love) will manifest itself in your life much, much, quicker than it did ... say a year ago! This process will surely increase at an exponential rate until we pass! We simply just need to "let go of" old thoughts that remain in our subconscious mind thereby harmonizing the communication between the subconscious and conscious mind. We are being fed FEAR daily, so one needs to, as you already stated Irini - "I just want to be Master of Myself if I am ever to do anything else", is to know themselves better. Thank this web site for allowing this to happen - For to truly know ones self a "relationship" with another person or other people is definitely better (one to two ... to three ... to five ... to seven ...).

The word "Chrism" means "oil" or "anointing" in Greek. The word "Chrism" directly relates to the anointing of Jesus (the Chrism one = the anointed one). He wished all of us to be the "anointed ones"... the messiah, if we "choose to" with our spirit graduating to his level. "Messiah" is an old Hebrew term defining a title where one has acquired the "Christ Consciousness." Jesus the Christ, Jesus the Messiah, Jesus the President, Jesus the Savoir ... they all represent the same thing.

"Chrism" corresponds to the fiery avatar of the Holy Ghost, seen as meteorites that fell over the heads of the apostles during Pentecost. It imparts Charisma ("grace"), the gift of abundance and healing powers. This article suggests that this "avatar" of the spirit represents the "Christ" itself! Lightening itself results from the electromagnetic completion of the electromagnetic polarities, which exist between heaven (+) and earth (-). Lightening is the end manifestation or connection - completion of the polarity that exists between heaven and earth. We went through a huge intense electric storm last night, as many of us around this planet are becoming VERY AWARE of! There is a reason for these happenings!

"The meaning of the Holy Ghost's Charisma is given by Paul in 1 Cor.12-14. These passages in the bible seem to correlate to M.F. Long's description of the hand and fingers. "For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For by one spirit we are all baptized into one body - Jews or Greeks, slaves or free - and all were made to drink of one Spirit. For the body does not consist of one member but of many. If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," that would not make it any less a part of the body."

A connection with the Christ / High Self energy will combine man's 2-fold (subconscious mind, conscious mind) lower / earthly nature with it's teacher (super conscious mind). We will meet the Elohim. In the sayings Gospel called "Q" (from the German "Quelle" or "source") is a collection of words spoken by the Historical Jesus and written down ca. 50 - 75 A.D. "God" is "Elohim". The Elohim are thought to be the archangels who are presidents of each sephiroth, contained within the Bible. However under certain beliefs, they can represent the father (Chokmah) and mother (Binah) in Kabbalistic teachings. Here these Elohim produce a child, who in this case is unconditional love (Christ consciousness), combined with the Holy Spirit (Divine truth). This "energy" in the form of vibrations is passed to the child - son or daughter. YHVH represents Father, Mother, son, and daughter. Christ consciousness is passed down to their new child, Yeshua (Jesus) and those who have chosen themselves by combining their vibration with the Tiphareth in the "Tree of Life" teachings to learn unconditional love (the Christ). In this format, Yeshuah (Jesus) also obtained the energy of the Divine Mother (Divine Shekinah, Divine Sophia etc... depends on what finger one is dealing with). The Hebrew's represent this by adding "Shin" to the equation, thus forming Yod, Hey, Shin, Vod, Hey. On the spiritual or galaxy-forming scenario, these Elohim originally were the producers of the universal blueprint for the model of Adam (humans). This model is passed down to each new galaxy or universe that is formed. This game has gone on for quite a long time :0) In the 26,000 years it takes for a complete revolution of the Earths' pole to make a complete revolution of bringing itself back to it's original starting point, is called the procession of the equinox. Under Jacobs's sons the Zodiac is divided into the twelve zodiacal signs. It would certainly be interesting to rediscover what the twelve tribes of Ishmael represent! If the circle were divided into 4 equal sections, then � spin of the wheel would take 6,500 years. At this point, there is always a struggle for a ruling energy (masculine or feminine) to take over the position, in the last cycle it obviously has been a patriarchal ruling. At certain times the feminine energy rules for a while. This time hopefully the energies will be balanced. The native Indian wheel represents a circle that reflects how a cycle operates. It takes 26,000 years (approx.) for the earth's magnetic pole to make one complete revolution, where the pole ends at the same spot it began at. This is this time where we have made a complete revolution to reach the Alpha - Omega point. There is no objective measurements or tools used to gain the proof that man needs in their objective brain. However, science and objective thinking will always prove a subjective energy that is kept in the forefront of all thoughts and thinking processes. We need subjectivity to define the room that we are currently in, in order to leave that room. These vibrational (not a word ...but should be) energies eventually manifest their self in this third dimensional objective reality marrying the physical processes. In higher planes and higher dimensions however our objectivity looses it's ground to subjective and metaphysical processes (which are objective in their manifestations of that higher matrix of energy). Again note that the forth dimension is now upon us. Please leave room for the subjective metaphysical processes that will happen... for eventually they will become objective as we settle into the surrounding energy. In fact, to read about them, to experience them is definitely ok.... "

Peace & love,
Jehanni

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Jehanni said:
There is no objective measurements or tools used to gain the proof that man needs in their objective brain. However, science and objective thinking will always prove a subjective energy that is kept in the forefront of all thoughts and thinking processes. We need subjectivity to define the room that we are currently in, in order to leave that room. These vibrational (not a word ...but should be) energies eventually manifest their self in this third dimensional objective reality marrying the physical processes.
Sorry, Jehanni, but I'm afraid you lost me in a wilderness of word salad on this one - could you, perhaps, try to explain what you're trying to say using more 'down to earth' terms? Saying that you need subjectivity to define anything is rather a contradiction in terms, is it not?
 
If by subjectivity, one means things that would fall under a heading of say Jungian psychology rather than math/physics then that's OK. One can certainly study Jungian psychology objectively but I could see someone calling Jungian psychology subjective compared with math/physics. A somewhat objective treatment (lots of math) of things brought up by Jehanni can be seen here but these links like Jehanni's post are probably easier to talk about one idea at a time.

http://www.valdostamuseum.org/hamsmith/sefTorah.html
http://www.valdostamuseum.org/hamsmith/Bardo.html
http://www.valdostamuseum.org/hamsmith/2012.html
 
Anne said:
Sorry, Jehanni, but I'm afraid you lost me in a wilderness of word salad on this one - could you, perhaps, try to explain what you're trying to say using more 'down to earth' terms? Saying that you need subjectivity to define anything is rather a contradiction in terms, is it not?
Am gonna go ahead and agree with Anne here, and John G, no, the links you provide don't help either.

Jung collected data and did research, and he always sought objectivity. Math and physics are a completely different field from psychology. Though Jung's work with Pauli introduced him into the recent physics theories of his time, he was always very careful not to come to subjective conclusions.

Jehanni, in few words, or a couple of sentences, what are you trying to say?
 
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