I don't know if this is too personal a topic for the forum, but I have no one else to speak to about this. I am literally on the cusp of ending an 8 year relationship/family unit...and my heart is breaking. All I want is a secure family for my children. My partner isn't happy, she wants "something better." Then, she'll say she doesn't know WHAT she wants. Then she says she wants a future with me. I am so close to ending it, but I feel pain and severe panic at the thought. Why? I want what's best for the kids. I don't know what is best - sticking it out or ending it. And I love the girl. I wish I could employ the detatched sobriety that Don Juan speaks of, but my emotions are too strong. I just needed to speak this to someone else, and I know this forum can give me insight. Thank you.
On The Cusp
- Thread starter Ominous
- Start date
anart
A Disturbance in the Force
Hi Ominous,
I think you need to pay attention to the fact that your emotions are too strong for you to see the situation clearly. What this means, ultimately, is that you will (for now) see things how you want them to be instead of how they are.
You are going through an incredibly difficult time right now and I would never, ever, presume to fully understand the details nor to 'tell you' what to do. Since you've asked for input, all I can really say is that, no matter how young the children are - they too have their own life lesson plans - meaning that their little 'souls' are in this situation for a reason. This does not absolve you of responsibility for your own actions, but it may release some of the pressure that 'everything' depends on what you do. At least, this is my understanding.
From what you've shared about the relationship, it certainly seems that your wife has some serious issues that you cannot even begin to address or to change. Perhaps - just perhaps - allowing things to end and allowing an opportunity to spare the children the strife and confusion of growing up in a house of conflict might not be such a bad idea?
I certainly cannot say for certain - but it seems imperative that you understand at this point, that your emotions are likely influencing your understanding of what might be best for your kids. I do wish you were not having to deal with this and that things were 'different' - but - it is as it is and if 'all there is is lessons' - then perhaps looking for what your lesson is in all of this might help? I do wish I could offer more - but it seems there are no easy answers in such a situation.
I think you need to pay attention to the fact that your emotions are too strong for you to see the situation clearly. What this means, ultimately, is that you will (for now) see things how you want them to be instead of how they are.
You are going through an incredibly difficult time right now and I would never, ever, presume to fully understand the details nor to 'tell you' what to do. Since you've asked for input, all I can really say is that, no matter how young the children are - they too have their own life lesson plans - meaning that their little 'souls' are in this situation for a reason. This does not absolve you of responsibility for your own actions, but it may release some of the pressure that 'everything' depends on what you do. At least, this is my understanding.
From what you've shared about the relationship, it certainly seems that your wife has some serious issues that you cannot even begin to address or to change. Perhaps - just perhaps - allowing things to end and allowing an opportunity to spare the children the strife and confusion of growing up in a house of conflict might not be such a bad idea?
I certainly cannot say for certain - but it seems imperative that you understand at this point, that your emotions are likely influencing your understanding of what might be best for your kids. I do wish you were not having to deal with this and that things were 'different' - but - it is as it is and if 'all there is is lessons' - then perhaps looking for what your lesson is in all of this might help? I do wish I could offer more - but it seems there are no easy answers in such a situation.
Hi Ominous,
I'm not sure what I could add that could be helpful. I think the link peche included could be very worthwhile to read through. It's tough because these experiences and afflictions we go through really are our own. To take that away by saying to do this or that seems to rob us of a piece of our humanity. At the same time I think support from friends can be helpful and I'm not sure that you're even looking to be told what to do. I think what Anart suggested, to find the lesson in this could help. This may help to get some of your emotions back on track too - truth seems to have that effect. It could be useful to take some time to fully recognize and accept that you really do not have the answers at the moment - the pressure that 'things need to be resolved as soon as possible' isn't really a helpful one (if you're experiencing that). Any beliefs about what should or should not be done and why can be useful to question. I think feeling psychic pain can sometimes be our mind's natural defense telling us we've accepted a lie, so I see no harm in questioning everything we've held sacred to root out the lies and learn from them.
I'm not sure what I could add that could be helpful. I think the link peche included could be very worthwhile to read through. It's tough because these experiences and afflictions we go through really are our own. To take that away by saying to do this or that seems to rob us of a piece of our humanity. At the same time I think support from friends can be helpful and I'm not sure that you're even looking to be told what to do. I think what Anart suggested, to find the lesson in this could help. This may help to get some of your emotions back on track too - truth seems to have that effect. It could be useful to take some time to fully recognize and accept that you really do not have the answers at the moment - the pressure that 'things need to be resolved as soon as possible' isn't really a helpful one (if you're experiencing that). Any beliefs about what should or should not be done and why can be useful to question. I think feeling psychic pain can sometimes be our mind's natural defense telling us we've accepted a lie, so I see no harm in questioning everything we've held sacred to root out the lies and learn from them.
Color
Jedi Council Member
Hi Omnius,Ominous said:
the most important thing to know is that you're not alone. As proved before, people in this forum
are great in support and advices. If nothing else, being aware how there's someone out there
willing to listen carefully - means a world of difference, when it comes to times like this.
I had my share in going through a painful separation, when my baby was only 4 months old.
And no matter what I've experienced before in my life, and all the painful experiences
which followed after - I still find that period as the hardest of it all. And what made it so
painful was the fact how it was not just about me, but about my child's future at stake.
It's impossible and it would be very dangerous to advise you to go a certain way about this,
cause, as said before, none of us here have all the informations needed for such conclusions.
And even if we did have those, still, it's up to you to decide how you want to live your life.
I know it's difficult to confront yourself with dying of many dreams one had, about how your life
and life of your kids, your whole family - will be. Facing the opposite and having to choose
between paths you never wished for, for any of you... It is hard and painfull and may seem like a mission impossible.
I know I was devastated and completely lost within my effort to predict what's the best way to go, for my kid, for my husband and for me.
It was killing me and tearing me apart, just like it breaks your heart. You're not alone in that, many of us experienced that
and have a pretty good guess of what you're going through now. Try and take some comfort in that.
Also try to understand how most of the pain comes from letting go of illusions.
I have one suggestion and would really like you to think about it seriously: find some good therapist, which can help you in dealing with all this.
I came to the very bottom before realized how I won't be able to solve the whole thing on my own.
And, I'm not saying you're not able to deal with it, but stating how you have no one to talk to,
and being overwhelmed with emotions - talking to somebody qualified to help you with all this,
if nothing else, to explore and resolve the chaos of your emotions - it could help you a lot.
I'll never forget what my therapist said to me back then: ' I won't tell you what to do,
I'm not gonna influence your decisions of leaving or staying in this marriage. It is not my job to do that.
But I will help you to get better and to stand on your own two feet, so that you can decide then,
what it is that You want to do about it all. '
And it was exactly like that. When I regained my strength and a clear head - the decision was natural and easy.
Cause I could think straight, about it all.
So, take care of yourself and ... whatever you decide, remember - you're not alone ;)
Ivana
webglider
Dagobah Resident
{quote]I want what's best for the kids. I don't know what is best - sticking it out or ending it. And I love the girl.[/quote}
Perhaps at this point you don't know what is best, but there is one thing that you do know and that is that you want what's best for your kids. In whatever situation you find yourself in, single or together, you can anchor your emotions in the intent that you want what's best for your children.
That aim can provide an a course of action that you can focus on right now. Their needs are really clear. They need a place to live, food to eat, clothes to wear. They need routines. They need to know that you won't abandon them, that you love them, that you will be there for them. They need to get an education, and if you send them to school, they need for you to know if they need support in any of their subjects and help them get it if they do.
In other words they have very basic, physical, material needs that can be addressed, and in the addressing of those needs, some of the emotions may begin to work themselves out.
Separate from that are adult relationships which are harder to navigate because they are not as clearly defined.
I received an excellent response on this forum when I asked about if it's possible to do this work (waking up) while being a parent. The thread was "Escaping General Law". The response was very perceptive and apt to my situation as a single parent. Somehow Pepperfritz intuited that when he wrote in answer to the issues I raised:
Pepper Fritz Wrote:
"But I think being aware of the pitfall of treating your child
as an adult (and thereby bringing your own needs before hers)
is important to keep at the front of your mind when you feel the "
urgency" to "share" something with your daughter. Is what you are
about to share with her genuinely in her best interest, or is it more
about relieving your anxieties and meeting your own needs?"
As I said, Pepperfritz was really astute in pointing this out to me. My daughter needs her childhood, not my adult worries that are beyond her life experience to understand. This need of children to not take on the burden of their parents is much subtler to detect than the need for food, shelter and clothing.
That's why it is really important to seek out another adult with whom to share your adult concerns now, so that you can be a parent to your children.
I wish that this had been pointed out to me much earlier.
Perhaps at this point you don't know what is best, but there is one thing that you do know and that is that you want what's best for your kids. In whatever situation you find yourself in, single or together, you can anchor your emotions in the intent that you want what's best for your children.
That aim can provide an a course of action that you can focus on right now. Their needs are really clear. They need a place to live, food to eat, clothes to wear. They need routines. They need to know that you won't abandon them, that you love them, that you will be there for them. They need to get an education, and if you send them to school, they need for you to know if they need support in any of their subjects and help them get it if they do.
In other words they have very basic, physical, material needs that can be addressed, and in the addressing of those needs, some of the emotions may begin to work themselves out.
Separate from that are adult relationships which are harder to navigate because they are not as clearly defined.
I received an excellent response on this forum when I asked about if it's possible to do this work (waking up) while being a parent. The thread was "Escaping General Law". The response was very perceptive and apt to my situation as a single parent. Somehow Pepperfritz intuited that when he wrote in answer to the issues I raised:
Pepper Fritz Wrote:
"But I think being aware of the pitfall of treating your child
as an adult (and thereby bringing your own needs before hers)
is important to keep at the front of your mind when you feel the "
urgency" to "share" something with your daughter. Is what you are
about to share with her genuinely in her best interest, or is it more
about relieving your anxieties and meeting your own needs?"
As I said, Pepperfritz was really astute in pointing this out to me. My daughter needs her childhood, not my adult worries that are beyond her life experience to understand. This need of children to not take on the burden of their parents is much subtler to detect than the need for food, shelter and clothing.
That's why it is really important to seek out another adult with whom to share your adult concerns now, so that you can be a parent to your children.
I wish that this had been pointed out to me much earlier.
PepperFritz
The Cosmic Force
It's interesting that this issue should come up on the forum right now, as a friend and I had a long conversation just the other day about our own experiences with that phrase "what's best for the kids", in relation to marital troubles.Ominous said:
The subject came up as we were watching a panel discussion about the Spitzer "scandal", where the participants were discussing why Mrs. Spitzer chose to "stand by her man" in such a situation. One of the panel members -- another politician's wife who had done the same when her husband was facing a sex scandal -- said something to the effect: "Well, she's thinking about her children, what's best for them, just as I did." My friend and I shook our heads in non-comprehension, wondering aloud "How would the children benefit from their mother humiliating herself in that way? What message does that send to them?" We agreed that these political wifes have their own "agendas" when they choose to "stand by their men" that have more to do with their own emotional needs or social/political ambitions than what is really "best for their children". This led us to talk about our own experiences with the use of that phrase:
My friend talked about her own marriage break-up many years ago when her children were small. Her husband had been abusive towards her, though always a good father to the children. Her husband and her own parents urged her to stay "for the sake of the children". Instead, she chose to be a single mother who kept her self-respect and pursued her own happiness. She bent over backwards to ensure that her children had a consistent and active relationship with their father, free of any animosity between their parents. Her children grew up to be happy, successful, well-adjusted adults who have never faulted their mother for her decision. She realized, wisely, that what her children "needed" most was to be deeply loved and supported by both their parents, and to live in a stable environment, but that she and her husband did not need to live in the same house in order to do that.
My friend also talked about her brother, who has stayed in an unhappy marriage for more than 20 years, full of constant bickering and strife. She once heard her nephew say to his father: "Dad, don't stay for our sakes. Because we won't thank you when we're older." And, sure enough, they have grown up to be troubled adults who resent their parents for an unhappy home environment.
I talked about my own mother, a narcissist who had a long marriage to an abusive man. She had her own twisted emotional reasons for staying with him, including an inability to be alone, and a deep attachment to the material benefits she would lose in a divorce (nice house, car, clothes, trips, etc). Throughout our childhood, she always told people that she stayed with him "for the sake of the children", while we kids constantly begged her to leave. We all grew up bearing the guilt of being "responsible" for our mother's unhappiness, since she stayed with him "for us".
These are extreme situations, but they raise a common issue: When a parent chooses to stay in an unhappy marriage "for the sake of the kids", are they really thinking honestly about their children's needs, or is it a convenient "cover" for their own inability to face difficult and painful issues and decisions? When you choose to stay in an unhealthy and humiliating situation (an abusive or cheating husband, a wife who no longer loves you, etc), to say you are doing so "for the children" let's you convince yourself you're a hero, a martyr -- rather than a "failure" who can't face being alone and starting all over again.
You and your wife *can* successfully meet your children's needs within the context of a broken marriage, if you seriously commit yourselves to doing so. It will not be easy, but it *can* be done. The alternative is to stay in an unhappy marriage, and risk handicapping your children with a toxic home environment, as well as burdening them with the guilt of having been responsible for their parents unhappiness.
I do not know the detailed particulars of your situation, so I wouldn't presume to tell you what to do (nor would I even if I *did* know the particulars). But I do urge you to think long and hard about what will be truly "best" for your children, in the long term; and to work hard at separating your own emotional issues from theirs.
We have a 7 month old girl & a 6 yr old boy together. Thanks for all of your replies, & I'm reading the thread about colinear relationships which is also helping. I have no "friends" to talk to this about...my entire world is my little family. I realize this is my fault for not maintaining outside friendships, but I was very happy with the way things were. I have a deep distrust of therapists because of prior experiences w/ them during my 9 year narcotics addiction. I trust the ppl on this forum more than I would some1 who is paid to listen to me. This situation has been going on for 2 months, and I've posted other threads about it. From the bottom of my heart I thank everyone who has taken the time to reply.
Perhaps, if things really cannot be worked out, this would be my opportunity to put my money where my mouth is & really become serious about the Work. I could become celibate, thus shedding a large portion of 3D chains, & concentrate on 1-my children and 2-learning. Alas, I feel that I am one of those unfortunates who aren't destined to find the ONE in this lifetime. My values seem to be too old-fashioned...I'm not into 3somes, I believe in being faithful, and I believe in putting the children's interests before your own. I don't need more/better possessions, jobs, friends, etc, to make me happy or content with my 3D life. I'm ok with working my job, supporting my family, and doing the Work as I have time for it. My partner, on the other hand, has become enamored of this 3D existence. I guess you can't pick who you fall in love with, can you?
Ruth
The Living Force
Sounds like she needs her head sorting out? Doesn't know what she wants? Its a shame that such indecisiveness and lack of internal awareness can cause such stress, but you know it does. And yes, she sounds somewhat childish and selfish too, like she's 'forcing' you to make some of her descisions for her and take on some of her responsibilities too...Ominous said:
It looks like a difficult situation, where one can only employ patience and try to help her figure out exactly WHAT she does want, which she may not thank you for, either! As it will 'force' her to look at herself and she may not 'like' what she sees.
On the up side, at least you know what you want!! The only thing I can suggest is patience.
Color
Jedi Council Member
Fwiw, I disliked 'help', didn't trust it, I never experienced much help in my life, from anyone,Ominous said:
and therapists messed with me badly, during my teenage years ...
The one I found and called in a situation somewhat like urs, in a moment of despair and confronting my chaos
- refused to take any money from me, after realizing my situation through a phone talk.
Think about it and create an intent in your mind, for this emotional chaos to be solved
then do some actions about it. Right therapist still sounds like a possible good way to go about it, to me,
considering you don't have anyone near and reasonable enough to help you go through this.
There is some real help and some signs on our way, don't dismiss them instantly, after all,
they are within a name of this site ;)
All the signs are there for me to read...she has become very cold towards me. Her actions speak very loudly. Why is it so difficult for me to let go of this? I'm 36 & have been thru this more than once, but never like this & never with children involved. We have become financially dependant on each other. If I leave, I won't get to see my kids daily like I'm used to. Its so complicated...again, many thanks to those who've posted; you've been a great help to me.
To echo what has already been said, you might not be seeing the situation objectively. Food for thought: Drug abuse will make any spouse and children somewhat neurotic. I am not sure how long you have been off drugs, but that sort of life style can create a chaotic home. Maybe you both need time and a little patience? fwiw
Meg
Meg
Edit: quote & link _http://www.drugaddictiontreatment.info/effects-of-drug-addiction.htmdrugaddictiontreatment.info said:
I do realize I'm not seeing the situation objectively, and I admitted as much earlier i.e. that my emotions are controlling me. I have been clean 6 years, and have a master's degree in intraveneous drug usage and the related issues. And I don't mean to come off as a know it all; just that I was there for 9 years...lost everything. Now I've built my life back up and been blessed with 2 children, and its falling apart. I'm a bit traumitized at the moment. Suddenly last night, my partner had a moment of clarity. She was also an addict for many years, was clean when I met her, and recently relapsed. She told me she wishes to seek help, but I know that wishing & doing are 2 seperate things. I also know that drugs are powerful enough to cause a person to momentarily mess their priorities up. As suggested, I must excercise patience at this point, to see if she is serious about what she says. Or I could be grasping at any straw I can.