Next Nearest Alternative

[TheSpoon]

That is the first thing we each have to admit. Any idea or thought that we can improve anyone or anything else is nonsense. Any act we undertake is almost certainly going to have repercussions that we cannot foresee.

I take your point, Henry. It's frustrating though, doing exactly what the PTB want us to do - change nothing while people with no conscience attempt to change everything.

Here's the Cassiopaea Glossary entry on "Self Calming"

Thanks for that PepperFritz. I had assu-me-d that the Cassiopedia was a revamp of the Glossary, but I see from another tread you've contributed to that it's still missing pages.

What I'm doing in Self Soothing isn't quite like Self Calming as described in the Glossary, it's more to do with acknowledging feelings, but it could still share elements of avoidance. I found this reference online that was similar: _http://www.borderlinepersonality.ca/borderselfsoothe.htm

That article helpfully says:

The core of self-soothing really sits in your desire, willingness and ability to face and feel your pain. It is the facing, feeling, grieving, and letting go (in healthy appropriate ways) of that pain that is the road to not only self-soothing, but healing.

...but then unhelpfully lists watching TV as one way to do this. Sheesh!

My take on self-soothing (wife and therapist assisted) is to acknowledge that the pain I'm feeling is related to pre-verbal childhood events such as abandonment (and having heard my own son cry when he is put to bed, I know that you don't need to actually abandon a child to make them feel abandoned!). Recognise that I'm feeling overwhelmed because I'm relating to current events as a child, but instead of activating early defence mechanisms - in this case looking for affection wherever I can get it - bring some adult understanding to the inner child.

So I might say to myself "It's OK, So-and-so is upset with you and yes that's not making you feel very good, but she's got a right to express how she's feeling and she does still love you" and then I'll imagine a big invisible pair of arms giving me a big hug. Or maybe the adult-me is hugging the child-me. Anyway, it stops me storming off and over-reacting, ending the relationship, etc.

Kel - thanks for your story warning of the dangers of sending Reiki when it's not been asked for. My current teacher says that sending Reiki to a "situation" rather than the person directly is permissible...I wonder if she's mistaken about that, sounds like a work-around to me.

Laurel (name change not kicked in yet?) - good luck with your court battle. How much easier it was when we were teenagers and you could end a relationship just by asking to.

Nice to read your posts above...you're so supportive of each other.

Aragorn - I smiled at your story. I can imagine your visitor being extremely annoying! I know a few people who say they see ghosts, auras, etc. I don't know if they do or not, I don't know that there's any real way to tell. I suppose the question would be: are the experiences consistent and are they helpful? I mean, if seeing an aura can tip you off to something that you can subsequently confirm, then that would seem to be a useful experience. I've never seen a thing out of the ordinary myself - even when I took a bit of a funny turn last year it was more a case of putting a different interpretation on what other people saw, rather than seeing or hearing anything that other people did not see.

 

[Oxajil]

fwiw:

TheSpoon:
It just seems so unfair that STS gets to change/control/manipulate to their hearts contents, but STO is expected to sit back and not interfere.

Why is that ''unfair''? I could say that it is unfair that STO sits back and doesn't interfere to their hearts contents, while STS changes/controls/manipulates to their hearts contents. I think 'fair' and 'unfair' is just a 3d concept.

TheSpoon:
Why is exposing psychopathic behaviour an STO activity, but reversing the damage they're doing seen as "control" and STS? If it IS possible to effect change by sending "Love" then why not do so?

Why do you want to ''change''?

TheSpoon:
I agree that trying to change others is an infringement of free will, but the idea of doing nothing is just really hitting up against my intuition and it's making me question the C's nature.

Like henry already said:

"Work on yourself first, foremost, and every day. Believe me, that isn't "doing nothing". It is more than most people will ever be able to do."

And I'd like to add something to that:

Gurdjieff said:

"The fact is that the enormous majority of people do not want any knowledge whatever; they refuse their share of it and do not even take the ration allotted to them, in the general distribution, for the purposes of life. [...]
"There is nothing unjust in this, because those who receive knowledge take nothing that belongs to others, deprive others of nothing; they take only what others have rejected as useless and what would in any case be lost if they did not take it.
"The collecting of knowledge by some depends upon the rejection of knowledge by others.

[...]

But the acquisition or transmission of true knowledge demands great labor and great effort both of him who receives and of him who gives. And those who possess this knowledge are doing everything they can to transmit and communicate it to the greatest possible number of people, to facilitate people's approach to it and enable them to prepare themselves to receive the truth. But knowledge cannot be given by force to anyone and, as I have already said, an unprejudiced survey of the average man's life, of what fills his day and of the things he is interested in, will at once show whether it is possible to accuse men who possess knowledge of concealing it, of not wishing to give it to people, or of not wishing to teach people what they know themselves.

"He who wants knowledge must himself make the initial efforts to find the source of knowledge and to approach it, taking advantage of the help and indications which are given to all, but which people, as a rule, do not want to see or recognize. Knowledge cannot come to people without effort on their own part. They understand this very well in connection with ordinary knowledge, but in the case of great knowledge, when they admit the possibility of its existence, they find it possible to expect something different.

[...]

At the same time it is essential to understand that man's independent efforts to attain anything in this direction can also give no results. A man can only attain knowledge with the help of those who possess it. This must be understood from the very beginning. One must learn from him who knows"

[...]

The best formulation of those that have been put forward is the wish to be one's own master. Without this nothing else is possible and without this nothing else will have any value.

[...]

"It was said, for instance, that somebody wanted to help people. In order to be able to help people one must first learn to help oneself. A great number of people become absorbed in thoughts and feelings about helping others simply out of laziness. They are too lazy to work on themselves; and at the same time it is very pleasant for them to think that they are able to help others. This is being false and insincere with oneself. If a man looks at himself as he really is, he will not begin to think of helping other people: he will be ashamed to think about it.

I myself have also tried to help others or to spread the word or discuss/debate some of the things that are discussed here in the hopes of showing others the 'other side of the world' so to say. I realised, later, that I was doing nothing but wasting my time and effort. I actually think that 'laziness' is the right, sneaky, word to describe why I did it. But then again, it was also a good training for self-observation.
They will see you as a 'know-it-all', they debunk anything you say, simply because it doesn't sound 'good' in their ears, simply because it's just a 'doom-and-gloom' image, whether they are facts or not. And this is exactly what reminded me of Gurdjieff writings, that people do not want 'knowledge'. That effort should also come from them.

In this thread, Anart said:

You see - the 'discuss', 'alter' and 'hand out' all speak to you looking out, needing to 'change' those around you, when, really - the only one you can change is you - so all the rest basically boils down to 'determining the needs of another' - odd how that works, really.

I really couldn't agree more. That is what I've seen, the only one who changed was me, the only one who could change was me! So I basically stopped fooling myself and started to see precisely what I was doing. So really, if we're gonna use words such as 'fair' and 'unfair', I'd say that it's unfair to violate other's free will's, just because you think what you're doing is right and just because you think what you know is the 'truth'. (Just like Ark and the C's themselves said once: "It's a natural process, and let it be so natural.")

What you're actually doing, is determining the needs of another.
But, if you choose to ' ''help'' others' and if this is what you see as 'doing something' then perhaps that is what you 'should' do and maybe you will notice the same as I have or as others have. Or maybe not.

 

[PepperFritz]

What I'm doing in Self Soothing isn't quite like Self Calming as described in the Glossary, it's more to do with acknowledging feelings, but it could still share elements of avoidance.

Well, to me, the core element of "Self Calming" is avoidance/denial. It seems to me what you call "Self Soothing" is something quite different. If you're acknowledging feelings and issues, even in a "gentle", self-compassionate way, you're not running away from them.

 

[PepperFritz]

"It was said, for instance, that somebody wanted to help people. In order to be able to help people one must first learn to help oneself. A great number of people become absorbed in thoughts and feelings about helping others simply out of laziness. They are too lazy to work on themselves; and at the same time it is very pleasant for them to think that they are able to help others. This is being false and insincere with oneself. If a man looks at himself as he really is, he will not begin to think of helping other people: he will be ashamed to think about it.

Oxajil: Thanks for those very relevant quotes from Gurdjieff. The one above particularly makes me wince at my past behaviour. I never suffered from the arrogance of thinking that I could "help" others by imposing my spiritual beliefs on them (thank goodness), but for many years I compulsively "helped" people in other ways -- whether they wanted it or not! -- and never thought twice about "determining another's needs". I sincerely thought that the high of "good feelings" it gave me was simple a nice side effect of being so "good" and "selfless". It never occurred to me that my actions were completely selfish in nature. I convinced myself that I just "enjoyed" helping others and that I expected nothing in return, but in fact I was an addict who needed that "helping high" and would quite frequently feel hurt and resentful when others didn't "appreciate" my efforts. Keeping myself thus occupied also helped me to avoid dealing with my own issues, which would have required a great deal more "real" effort. Though I believed that I "worked hard" for others, in fact it was a lazy, easy way out. And, as Gurdjieff says, once I saw myself for what I really was, I was ashamed. Deeply ashamed.

 

[mamadrama]

"It was said, for instance, that somebody wanted to help people. In order to be able to help people one must first learn to help oneself. A great number of people become absorbed in thoughts and feelings about helping others simply out of laziness. They are too lazy to work on themselves; and at the same time it is very pleasant for them to think that they are able to help others. This is being false and insincere with oneself. If a man looks at himself as he really is, he will not begin to think of helping other people: he will be ashamed to think about it.

So with this idea in mind, I'm interested in what y'all think about my desire to start a support group for women or men who are healing from a psychopathic relationship.

 

[PepperFritz]

So with this idea in mind, I'm interested in what y'all think about my desire to start a support group for women or men who are healing from a psychopathic relationship.

Well, I think it all comes down to what is genuinely driving/motivating you to start such a group, what your true INTENT is. And, of course, you may not be consciously aware of all that. It might be a useful exercise to draw up three columns along the following lines:

1. How such a group would benefit my Work / personal development / spiritual growth.

2. How such a group would benefit others.

3. What I'm fearful of in the event that I do NOT start such a group.

For example, under (1) you might write that being with a group of people with such a common interest would provide important networking opportunities necessary to the Work. Under (2) you might put down that it would be an opportunity for others to learn more about psychopaths and how to avoid them. Under (3) you might find yourself thinking "I'm afraid I'll slip back into old patterns if I don't have people around to help make sure that doesn't happen"; or "I'm afraid of becoming lonely and depressed once the "psychopath drama" has passed and had better start setting up a support group now".

If you find that the second and third lists are a lot longer than the first, you'll probably want to think very carefully about whether your motivation is coming from the best place. It would be good to share your results here. Only you can tell us what you're thinking and feeling, without which useful Forum feedback might be limited.

Dunno if this makes sense, just throwing out my thoughts....

 

[mamadrama]

Well, I think it all comes down to what is genuinely driving/motivating you to start such a group, what your true INTENT is. And, of course, you may not be consciously aware of all that.

First, let me say thanks for your willingness to continuously offer feedback, PepperFritz. We may just have to put you on the payrole. :)

To be honest, I am as equally reluctant to start this group as I am willing. There is so little time as it is, and I already have a lot on my plate. That being said, I feel a sort of calling to do this.
Here are my reasons:
By networking with others, hearing their stories, I think it would help me finish my own healing which is necessary for me to proceed with the Work. It would also provide me with some excellent opportunities to self-observe which will likely uncover more programs that I am currently unaware of. All beneficial to my spiritual growth.
It would benefit others by giving them the opportunity to learn more about psychopathy and to help them with their own healing process. It may also bring about more awareness of psychopathy to the general public since this would be a free support group open to the public.

Going through this exercise, I do not feel attached to the formation of this group. I would like to offer it and then see if there is indeed a desire for it by others. The training will take some investment of time and money on my part and there is the possibility that that will be enough to complete my healing. Ah, and so now it occurs to me that I may be using the idea of starting this group, to actually motivate myself to complete my own healing process. Hmm, I'll have to think about that some more...
Thanks!

 

[NormaRegula]

...The one above particularly makes me wince at my past behaviour. I never suffered from the arrogance of thinking that I could "help" others by imposing my spiritual beliefs on them (thank goodness), but for many years I compulsively "helped" people in other ways -- whether they wanted it or not! -- and never thought twice about "determining another's needs".

While searching for truth, I once joined a church. Members were constantly thinking up new (and what they believed were selfless) ways to help non-members in the hope that their Christian "good will" would reflect well on the church and, perhaps, snag a new convert or two in the process. If a member didn't have a helpful ministry, "well-meaning" members would make sure they found one and/or volunteered for activities through guilt or the belief that the Lord wanted them to forget their own problems in the service of others. The attitude was "hey, we're all miserable sinners, but we're saved sinners, so our job here on earth is to "help" more sinners gain salvation"...or something like that. Talk about the blind leading the blind!

I sincerely thought that the high of "good feelings" it gave me was simple a nice side effect of being so "good" and "selfless". It never occurred to me that my actions were completely selfish in nature. I convinced myself that I just "enjoyed" helping others and that I expected nothing in return, but in fact I was an addict who needed that "helping high" and would quite frequently feel hurt and resentful when others didn't "appreciate" my efforts.

Before I joined a church, I had that same attitude when I worked on political and social issues. It got to the point where I couldn't say no. I secretly wallowed in anger, frustration, self-pity, and felt drained of my energy...yet I reveled in the "high" of being a martyr to the latest cause.

Keeping myself thus occupied also helped me to avoid dealing with my own issues, which would have required a great deal more "real" effort. Though I believed that I "worked hard" for others, in fact it was a lazy, easy way out.

It took a while to come to grips with that truth. Like love, the word "help" has been distorted by numerous programs that foster selfishness and curtail any meaningful introspection into a person's "real" motives.

And, as Gurdjieff says, once I saw myself for what I really was, I was ashamed. Deeply ashamed.

No amount of that old time religious repentance or guilt can compare with the gut-wrenching, emotional depth of true self-discovery.

 

[PepperFritz]

Going through this exercise, I do not feel attached to the formation of this group.

I'd say that's probably a good sign. Whenever I feel compelled to do something, with a sense of urgency attached, I know I'm probably about to step of a cliff... hehe....

Ah, and so now it occurs to me that I may be using the idea of starting this group, to actually motivate myself to complete my own healing process. Hmm, I'll have to think about that some more....

Not necessarily anything wrong with that. You may have uncovered an "expectation" that you were not previously aware of. Next question is, what if that expectation is not met? What if, say, the group ends up impeding your healing process, by keeping you "stuck" in the past. Or what if you spend so much time trying to help others "heal", that you neglect your own needs? Will you be able to recognize that if it happens, or will you be so "invested" in the group that you will not be able to walk away from it?

I went through a period in my life where I had made so many stupid mistakes because of my own blindness, that I began to mistrust myself to do anything. I was so afraid of "screwing things up again" that I was afraid to take a step. But I eventually came to see that it's not a question of ensuring that you never again take a step in the wrong direction, it's a question of being able to trust yourself to recognize your error and get back on track, in the event you run off the rails. The key to that is self-knowledge and self-awareness.

I find that a very useful exercise now -- mentally imagining all the possible scenarios that could result from a given action/choice, and how I might deal with such scenarios. Sometimes it leads me to realize that I am probably still too susceptible to certain Programs in the event that this, that, or the other happens, and should stay away from the situation. And sometimes I feel confident enough in my progress in a certain area to know that I can recognize and handle all of the possible pitfalls.

So... bottom line... the more you know about YOURSELF (Programs, expectations, motivations, etc.) before you undertake this project -- the better.....

Because... (all together now)... KNOWLEDGE PROTECTS....

 

[PepperFritz]

No amount of that old time religious repentance or guilt can compare with the gut-wrenching, emotional depth of true self-discovery.

Amen to that, sister....

 

[mamadrama]

PepperFritz wrote:
You like the words "Love" and "Light" a lot more than "STO", because the latter seems to lack the EMOTION and SENTIMENT and WARM FEELINGS you associate with the former. And there's the rub, my friend. The C's are telling us that "Love" (i.e. STO) is not a FEELING, it is an ACTION

Intellectually I agree with you, but then this big surge of emotion comes up from my chest and disagrees. I don't know what to do with that. I think it's responding that "Love is the feeling that promotes the action".

Hi, Spoon.
Hopefully, this post will just add a little more food for thought and not get too tangled in the ether.
When I first began classes in energy healing, the sensorial aspects I felt as I worked on classmates were incredible. They were so intense in nature my teacher called them the "cosmic glitter" and cautioned against getting too attached to it. But it was very powerful and I looked forward to it everytime I worked with someone. As time passed and I learned more and worked with more people, these amazing feelings began to diminish and I thought I was losing my "abilities." My teacher assured me this was not the case, that I just didn't need the bells and whistles anymore. And what I found was that though the work was infinitely more subtle, I was able to pay much closer attention because I was not disracted by the energetic rush of all that pleasurable stimuli.
Ouspensky tells us that the human machine utilzes four functions: the intellectual, emotional, instinctive, and moving and there are different speeds of the different functions. The slowest is the intellectual function. Next come moving and instictive functions which have an qpproximately equal speed which is enormously quicker than intellectual. The emotional function generally works at about the same speed as the the instinctive function. So moving, instinctive and emotional functions are very much quicker than thought.
In a book I recently read, The Death of Religion and the Rebirth of the Spirit: A Return to the Intelligence of the Heart by Joseph Chilton Pearce, he recounts an experiment that correlates this idea that the mind is the last to know. At the Institute of HeartMath, people were wired for brainwaves (EEG) and the heart's electromagnetic (EM) spectrum (EKG). They sat in front of a viewing screen and when the biofeedback devices showed that they were calm, the viewer would then press a button and 10 seconds later, a random selector would display a photo. About 20% of the pictures were repulsive, chosen for their negative nature. The rest of the pictures were benign, chosen to elicit no negative emotional reaction. Four to seven seconds before a negative picture was randomly chosen and presented, the heart-brain feedback sytems registered a distinctive pattern response. The heart responses made to negative scenes at this early stage, before the pictures actually appeared, were markedly diferent from those heart patterns that occurred before the benign pictures were shown. Thus the study determined that the heart-brain clearly indicated knowledge of a negative event well before the event physically materialized. In this predictive function, the heart response preceded the brain shift by a fraction of a second, and after a split second, the frontal brain shifted simultaneously with the heart, indicating that heart and brain interact. What is most significant, though is the subject was not aware of his or her heart's four-to-seven second anticipatory activity or predictive function, and was only aware of the acatual appearance of the image on screen. Therefore, it seems , there is a heart-brain awareness in us that oddly precedes our mind awareness and that in the case of intuitive awareness, the mind is the last to know.
So, to me anyway, there is great benefit to pause as we observe our feelings and the various functions of our machine before we act, so that our mind and body can act in concert from a more conscious place. I hope this makes some kind of sense, it's late and I'm not sure if it is coherent or not.

 

[anart]

To be honest, I am as equally reluctant to start this group as I am willing. There is so little time as it is, and I already have a lot on my plate. That being said, I feel a sort of calling to do this.
Here are my reasons:
By networking with others, hearing their stories, I think it would help me finish my own healing which is necessary for me to proceed with the Work. It would also provide me with some excellent opportunities to self-observe which will likely uncover more programs that I am currently unaware of. All beneficial to my spiritual growth.
It would benefit others by giving them the opportunity to learn more about psychopathy and to help them with their own healing process. It may also bring about more awareness of psychopathy to the general public since this would be a free support group open to the public.

Going through this exercise, I do not feel attached to the formation of this group. I would like to offer it and then see if there is indeed a desire for it by others. The training will take some investment of time and money on my part and there is the possibility that that will be enough to complete my healing. Ah, and so now it occurs to me that I may be using the idea of starting this group, to actually motivate myself to complete my own healing process. Hmm, I'll have to think about that some more...
Thanks!

For what it's worth - I would be incredibly uncomfortable with starting a 'support group' of any kind for anyone ( and I have quite an extensive amount of psychological education behind me ) - I do not yet know enough - I am still Working on myself, on my own programs and my own subjective understandings of things. I read posts that I wrote one year ago and see so many holes and so much subjectivity that I gain more clues on where to go from here.

Until I KNOW myself fully - I will work within a network only - with eyes to mirror back myself - and with minds who can contribute to what I say and ensure that I don't only say it to serve myself, my needs, my programs.

Working on oneself takes ALL of a person - this idea of 'starting a support group' needs to be deeply examined - IF one is actually interested in progressing in the Work. If one is just interested in 'wallowing' - be that wallowing in the self, or others, or whatever - then - well - all options are open. (and there is nothing objectively wrong with 'wallowing' - all there is is lessons)

There are ways to spread information about psychopathy that do not involve being the 'head' of a support group - we are surrounded by those ways, so -- perhaps -- the desire to do such is a way out of actually Working on oneself? fwiw.

As an addendum - it appears that Spoon needs to spend a LOT of time understanding his/her centers and how to utilize the power of the emotional center without allowing oneself to get carried away by those horses. There is a LOT of subjectivity in 'Spoons' latest posts - and all of the questions he/she has asked have been covered in depth on this forum and its associated web pages - so - if there is a sincere desire to learn within Spoon - then more reading is necessary - and more effort to learn and not get carried away in the feel good chemicals and dreams of sleep - one is either happy in the dream or they are not - Spoon is currently fighting quite strongly for his/her happy dream - (again - fwiw).

It should also be noted that if Spoon would like to pursue his/her dreams, then he/she has every right in the world to do so - and there are MANY forums for such things - this is simply not one of them.

 

[mamadrama]

Working on oneself takes ALL of a person - this idea of 'starting a support group' needs to be deeply examined - IF one is actually interested in progressing in the Work. If one is just interested in 'wallowing' - be that wallowing in the self, or others, or whatever - then - well - all options are open. (and there is nothing objectively wrong with 'wallowing' - all there is is lessons)

Yes, I see your point and I'm really tired of wallowing. That being said, sometimes it seems that some amount of wallowing is needed before it is actually possible to move beyond the bruising of the experience so that the lesson is truly learned on all levels. What I was after, by forming this group, was to be with others who have first hand relational experience in this particular psychopathy. To be with those, who've also had their nose bloodied, so to speak, and to be present with and share the collective journeys of this particular kind of healing. As much as I want to do the Work, sometimes, the esoteric nataure of it is just too abstract to affect the gritty reality of 3D life in the trenches, osis. At this point, anyway, it seems I won't be able to do the Work or make much progress until I finish healing and I am at peace with this experience.

There are ways to spread information about psychopathy that do not involve being the 'head' of a support group - we are surrounded by those ways, so -- perhaps -- the desire to do such is a way out of actually Working on oneself? fwiw.

Again, I think you're right, I will not be doing the Work if I form this group. The thing is, though, I may need to do it so that I am able to do the Work, I'm not sure. Anyway, you've given me good food for thought and I appreciate your input, Anart.

 

[mamadrama]

Next question is, what if that expectation is not met? What if, say, the group ends up impeding your healing process, by keeping you "stuck" in the past. Or what if you spend so much time trying to help others "heal", that you neglect your own needs? Will you be able to recognize that if it happens, or will you be so "invested" in the group that you will not be able to walk away from it?

All good questions to consider. I am by nature, an introvert, and generally prefer to spend time alone rather than in a group so I don't think there's much risk of being so "invested" in the group that I wouldn't be able to walk away from it. In truth, I worry more about the opposite problem. How long will I have to facilitate such a group once I have finished my own task of "healing? As to whether it is likely this group would impede or impel my healing process or neither, I'm not sure. Having been too long mired in the "mamadrama" of my life's circumstances, I am now much clearer with my boundaries and spend much less time and energy sacrificing for others. Do I want to be of service? Yes! Do I want to sacrifice myself in the process? No! Still, it is a syndrome I am prone to and I must keep ever vigilant about it.

I went through a period in my life where I had made so many stupid mistakes because of my own blindness, that I began to mistrust myself to do anything. I was so afraid of "screwing things up again" that I was afraid to take a step. But I eventually came to see that it's not a question of ensuring that you never again take a step in the wrong direction, it's a question of being able to trust yourself to recognize your error and get back on track, in the event you run off the rails. The key to that is self-knowledge and self-awareness.

I find that a very useful exercise now -- mentally imagining all the possible scenarios that could result from a given action/choice, and how I might deal with such scenarios. Sometimes it leads me to realize that I am probably still too susceptible to certain Programs in the event that this, that, or the other happens, and should stay away from the situation. And sometimes I feel confident enough in my progress in a certain area to know that I can recognize and handle all of the possible pitfalls.

Such good insight, thanks. And while that certainly sums up how I feel about getting involved with anyone in any sort of romantic relationship, I don't see it as a probable impediment to working out some issues with a group of this nature. This group is not intended to be formed with a co-dependant relationship of the participants as its basis, but rather to be inter-dependant, relying on the wisdom and experiences of those in the group to facilitate everyone's individual healing.

So... bottom line... the more you know about YOURSELF (Programs, expectations, motivations, etc.) before you undertake this project -- the better.....

Because... (all together now)... KNOWLEDGE PROTECTS....

And, Hallelujia, Brother!

 

[clearmiddle]

Yes, I see your point and I'm really tired of wallowing. That being said, sometimes it seems that some amount of wallowing is needed before it is actually possible to move beyond the bruising of the experience so that the lesson is truly learned on all levels. What I was after, by forming this group, was to be with others who have first hand relational experience in this particular psychopathy. To be with those, who've also had their nose bloodied, so to speak, and to be present with and share the collective journeys of this particular kind of healing. As much as I want to do the Work, sometimes, the esoteric nataure of it is just too abstract to affect the gritty reality of 3D life in the trenches, osis. At this point, anyway, it seems I won't be able to do the Work or make much progress until I finish healing and I am at peace with this experience.

There might still be something you can do with the idea, if it is something you really want to do. I don't know what that would be, but it wouldn't hurt for you to look. Do ask why, though.

For the last few years I was involved with certain support groups of a different sort, both as a participant and as one of those running the groups, and I can only affirm what others have written earlier. I did notice, though, that there were certain things I could continue to do in the way of offering information via the Web that would provide a potential benefit to others while allowing me to disentangle myself from the groups themselves. At the same time, I have been learning useful things from doing it, though it has been a lot of work. Perhaps there is something you could offer this way, without exposing yourself to the workings of support groups?