Morality, and the detection of the art of lying

[Ca.]

Two great talks from TED, on Morality, and the detection of the art of lieing.

Paul Zak: Trust, morality -- and oxytocin
http://www.ted.com/talks/paul_zak_trust_morality_and_oxytocin.html

What drives our desire to behave morally? Neuroeconomist Paul Zak shows why he believes oxytocin (he calls it "the moral molecule") is responsible for trust, empathy and other feelings that help build a stable society.

Pamela Meyer: How to spot a liar
http://www.ted.com/talks/pamela_meyer_how_to_spot_a_liar.html

On any given day we're lied to from 10 to 200 times, and the clues to detect those lie can be subtle and counter-intuitive. Pamela Meyer, author of Liespotting, shows the manners and "hotspots" used by those trained to recognize deception -- and she argues honesty is a value worth preserving.

ADMIN NOTE: Corrected spelling of "lying" in subject field.

 

[Buddy]

Re: Morality, and the detection of the art of lieing

Interesting. I was wondering about the relationship you see between Zak and Meyer's talk.

One can also get Meyer's info and add a bit more to it from here: Never Be Lied To Again, by David J. Lieberman, Ph.D.,St. Martin’s Press, New York 1998, DD: 158.2, ISBN: 0-312-18634-7

If, as the Work says, we lie to ourselves and each other constantly, would it follow that the sense of morality many 'normal' people share is based on lies? What would human morality be like if people were incapable of lying - including that tendency to assert something to be so while knowing that they don't know.

 

[Ca.]

Re: Morality, and the detection of the art of lieing

Interesting. I was wondering about the relationship you see between Zak and Meyer's talk.

Hi Bud, i came across these two talks on Ted. The two subjects seem to share a parallel line, of thoughts in acquiring an even kile in fighting the negative aspects of life that would influence ones morale's

Those that can see, that morality, and lying play a crucial role in the path's one chooses in the orientation of (with freewill ) the selection of STS or STO way of life. The direction that one chooses are directly related to the influence's we all experience from birth. That the possibility's to be able to select an orientation of good, lets say (STO) from birth ( as consciousness develops infancy, to child, to teen, to adult ), may be blossomed depending on the orientation of the parents, and outside external influence's As demonstrate by Mr. Zak's opening example of being raised by his mother who was a nun.

But that does not mean one has be raised by a nun in order to become aware of morality, (or to attain a healthy respect for being morale). I think that lying unless monitored can chisel away at ones morel structure. Also it could be said that accepting other people's lies without questioning the motivation behind the lie, is no different than if one were telling the lie themself's. So one may have too guard himself against the influence's of those that hug lies, (or have a life that revolves around deception) in order to maintain moral integrity.

Miss Meyers gives excellent clues in the ability to monitor (too self analyze), and the patterns in the art of lying in others. This may help too promote honesty, to possibly achieving a more healthier morel foundation, and to maintain the STO configuration.

 

[Ca.]

How to Read Body Language to Tell Someone's Lying
http://www.ehow.com/how_4578336_body-language-tell-someones-lying.html

There are many ways liars betray themselves. Some of the signs involve spoken language and visible signs like sweat or a flushed face, but many of the most telling signs that someone isn't being truthful are found in body language. While reading body language isn't definitive proof that lies are being told, they can offer reassurance when you're already suspicious. In addition, consider how many indications are manifesting; when sevInstructionseral of the following body language signals are apparent, it is likely there is a reason.

Instructions
1-Pay particular attention to the eyes.
2-Watch for fidgeting.
3-Notice any covering of the mouth or touching of the face.
4-Look for any indication that the speaker has a dry mouth, a common side effect of lying. This can include lip licking, frequent swallowing or repetitious small sips of a beverage.
5-Pay attention to gestures.
6-Watch for folded arms and crossed legs.
7-Notice if the other person's body is pointed away from you.

7 Lies In Under 2 Minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UErR7i2onW0&feature=player_embedded

EXPLOSIVE ‘60 MINUTES’ REPORT REVEALS WIDESPREAD WASHINGTON CORRUPTION
NOVEMBER 14, 2011
http://breakthematrix.com/government/explosive-60-minutes-report-reveals-widespread-washington-corruption/

 

[Buddy]

I think all those ideas are good, but that there are two indicators that seem to be more reliable than the others.

Eyes: Unless you're dealing with a psycho or practiced liar, I believe a person will avoid direct casual eye contact while voicing the lie. After all, it's kinda hard to 'see' your vaporous mental representation under someone's direct gaze, if you're not speaking from your "knowing", OSIT. You have to be able to look at the picture you've created if you're gonna describe it, I think.

Voice: I believe normal people's vocal tone or volume drops a bit during a lie. Perhaps the liar's body-mind feels a need to prevent having the lie overheard by someone who knows better and can spank or whatever. Maybe the liar's unconsciousness of this lowering of tone is explained by the fact that he's also unconscious of the motivation for what he's doing?

Don't know for sure, but it's very interesting!

 

[anart]

You both realize that these types of 'signs' don't apply to the most common liars at all - psychopaths - right? Even people who are not psychopaths, but are merely psychopathic or very ponerized can usually lie with no external signs at all - so it's always wise to make that distinction, because, really these types of guides are inapplicable in the situations that are most likely to be most dangerous.

 

[Laura]

You both realize that these types of 'signs' don't apply to the most common liars at all - psychopaths - right? Even people who are not psychopaths, but are merely psychopathic or very ponerized can usually lie with no external signs at all - so it's always wise to make that distinction, because, really these types of guides are inapplicable in the situations that are most likely to be most dangerous.

Yup. Check out: http://www.sott.net/articles/show/236476-The-Cult-of-the-Plausible-Lie

 

[Buddy]

You both realize that these types of 'signs' don't apply to the most common liars at all - psychopaths - right? Even people who are not psychopaths, but are merely psychopathic or very ponerized can usually lie with no external signs at all - so it's always wise to make that distinction, because, really these types of guides are inapplicable in the situations that are most likely to be most dangerous.

Yup. Check out: http://www.sott.net/articles/show/236476-The-Cult-of-the-Plausible-Lie

I probably don't fully realize it if I haven't had much experience with the hard core liars. I appreciate the 'heads up'.

 

[obyvatel]

Instructions
1-Pay particular attention to the eyes.
2-Watch for fidgeting.
3-Notice any covering of the mouth or touching of the face.
4-Look for any indication that the speaker has a dry mouth, a common side effect of lying. This can include lip licking, frequent swallowing or repetitious small sips of a beverage.
5-Pay attention to gestures.
6-Watch for folded arms and crossed legs.
7-Notice if the other person's body is pointed away from you.

2,4 are typical gestures that arise out of nervousness or anxiety. Even 3 may sometimes fall into this category. A person could be nervous or anxious for very many reasons of which lying could be one. As has been already stated, practiced liars do not show any such signs.

6 is a typically a self-protective gesture - it comes from a person who may not feel safe and secure in the environment he is in.

7 is a gesture of avoidance - the person may not want to engage with you.

I think 6,7 have a tenuous connection to lying.

Voice: I believe normal people's vocal tone or volume drops a bit during a lie. Perhaps the liar's body-mind feels a need to prevent having the lie overheard by someone who knows better and can spank or whatever. Maybe the liar's unconsciousness of this lowering of tone is explained by the fact that he's also unconscious of the motivation for what he's doing?

In my experience, I have seen people raising their voices more often when they lie.

 

[Buddy]

Voice: I believe normal people's vocal tone or volume drops a bit during a lie. Perhaps the liar's body-mind feels a need to prevent having the lie overheard by someone who knows better and can spank or whatever. Maybe the liar's unconsciousness of this lowering of tone is explained by the fact that he's also unconscious of the motivation for what he's doing?

In my experience, I have seen people raising their voices more often when they lie.

Thanks for this addition! Apparently what I've noticed is only part of a picture. Maybe a better idea would be to simply notice when the voice raises AND lowers?

I'm also assuming here that there must have been something reliable about the 'lying voice' to give Gurdjieff the necessary confidence to make a demonstration to Ouspensky using O's friend.

Something else I've noticed and confirmed IRL with fact-checking. Seems like the feeling center or gut gets provoked somehow by actually hearing a lie (IRL). Most of the time this 'provoking' is simply an ambiguous attention-getter because something sounds a bit flat somehow - like it seems to beg more questions than it answers. Hard to explain and I'm here referring to a normative context as far as I know.

 

[Ca.]

Voice: I believe normal people's vocal tone or volume drops a bit during a lie. Perhaps the liar's body-mind feels a need to prevent having the lie overheard by someone who knows better and can spank or whatever. Maybe the liar's unconsciousness of this lowering of tone is explained by the fact that he's also unconscious of the motivation for what he's doing?

In my experience, I have seen people raising their voices more often when they lie.

Hedge Funds and the Global Economic Meltdown-3 years ago: Tue, Mar 17, 2009 2:19pm
http://vimeo.com/3722293

60 Minutes - Prosecuting Wall Street Fraud At Citigroup And Countrywide - DOJ On The Defensive Part 1 - 2, Dec. 4, 2011
http://dailybail.com/home/60-minutes-prosecuting-wall-street-fraud-at-citigroup-and-co.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheDailyBail+%28The+Daily+Bail%29

NOMI PRINS: MF Global & Corzine, the Made Man - Part One and Two Nov 23, 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlSWRd8khfc&feature=relmfu

This is part one of my interview with Author and Journalist Nomi Prins. As a former Managing Director at Goldman Sachs, Nomi has first hand experience working with the criminal class, but she walked away with her soul intact. Nomi and I speak in detail about MF Global, Jon Corzine and the criminal Kleptocracy.

Inside Job clip 'Mishkin Looks Bad' - At UK Cinemas February 18th
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88Q&feature=related

This will make your blood boil!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz6r-MHiC24&feature=related

Inside Job Declaracion Goldman Sachs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1cExe8LyZ4&feature=related

You both realize that these types of 'signs' don't apply to the most common liars at all - psychopaths - right? Even people who are not psychopaths, but are merely psychopathic or very ponerized can usually lie with no external signs at all - so it's always wise to make that distinction, because, really these types of guides are inapplicable in the situations that are most likely to be most dangerous.

Yes, with the recent wide spread corruption, and collusion between Wall Street, U.S. Federal Over Site Committee's, and the federal Reserve, all consisting of former employee's of the very companies that they were suppose to monitor, and regulate, but instead enriched them 2008. This help bring to light the underlining degree's of the psyhcopthy (wielding a pen, as to knife) in pinstripe suits, with a college education.

Did not the C's indicate that this was a condition called the "pollution of the blood line", with the population of the planet divided equally consiting at this of 3.5 billion running around in some form, and varying degrees of psychotic, and psychopathic behavior. Given the current turmoil circling the globe, it would appear that this would be another hit for the C's, as things are moving fast too spiraling to hell to in a hand bag, if they have there way.

I think that general public has been continually manipulated to only consider a serial killer as the charterer of what a psychopath is, by the ability through deception to lure its pray.

But both share a common denominator in the process, with a critical line being drawn a between the degree of psychopathic, and psychotic behavior, and it all starts with a lie, for deception, and manipulation. "Conquest, Capture, Destruction"

Psychopath - [Part 1] - Psychology - Documentary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm1S_n0V5kk

Psychopath - [Part 2]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f5hUCcckjg&feature=related

Psychopath - [Part 3]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqfOaij60ss&feature=related

Psychopath - [Part 4]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBr1RFSTihk&feature=related

Psychopath - [Part 5]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt4Gwfg4Y74&feature=related

Charles Bowden -- Selections from an Interview Jul 6, 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DIrvg8RuMA

On June 30, 2011 Bowden sat down for a video interview while in San Francisco for a speaking engagement. In his responses he argues the extreme violence seen in Mexico is a sign of a deeper societal disintegration resulting from governmental corruption, failed economic policies, and the War on Drugs.

Political Ponerology
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v7PJmKKsfM&feature=player_embedded