Islam, Mohamed

DianaRose94

Jedi Master
Hello everyone!!

I have questions about islam, as we all know most of the so called holy books are made of false or half truth. And I was wondering why muslim and jewish don't have the right to eat pork. What is behing it?
Also I was wondering what was Mohamed true story. Was he truly a prophet ?

I wonder if he was a : an impostor
b : a good guy but was tricked by 4th STS being
c : That what we know from him is false or half truth

Because it is said that angel communicated with him and I wonder if these angel weren't merely 4th STS being who wanted to achieve more control of planet Earth and decided to use him.

Also, my familly (haidara) is supposed to be a descendant of mohamed, I was wondering if this was true. Basically everybody in the muslim community believe it to be true.

Thanks for your answers
 
As far as I know, the prohibition on pork was a health issue related to the arab racial group having less resistance to some disease or parasite carried by pigs.

Edit: Ok, here is the relevant quote:

Q: The next thing is the dietary restrictions. Many cultures eat rabbits and pigs, in specific, those of Aryan extraction. The rabbit was sacred to Athena, and the Celts ate a LOT of pork. Yet, here these items are restricted from the diet of the Jews. Is there any relation between the diet as outlined here, and the Aryan genetic tendencies to conquest and domination?
A: Trichinosis used to be nonexistent in Aryan types... But, mixing of genetic factors eliminated this.

Q: So, the Jews were susceptible to trichonosis, and the Aryans were not?
A: Originally.

Q: So, it was necessary for the Jews not to eat the pork, but not for the Aryans, and the mixing caused susceptibility. In a general sense, are strong Aryan genetics indicative of the necessity for the consumption of meat?
A: In a sense, but pescadorial features substitute semi-adequately.

from the kantek thread: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=13982.0 but I have no idea of the session date.
 
Well,
I don't remember much from Islam :)
Anyway,

Islam is mainly Judaism, and that's why the prohibition of eating pork has been maintained (with no explanation) as suggested by mechanimated.

Nothing is really known about Mohamed apart the Islamic legends. As always, he who kills all the others can tell anything he wants and record it as history and we have only the official legend.

Without entering to the Koranic nonsense and its multilevel contradictions (this is funny because Muslims are told that there is no contradiction in the Koran, so they CANNOT see contradictions, a hypnosis thing).
Mohamed story is an interresting one. When he went to the cave of Hera to meditate, a guy appeared to him and ordered him "read!". The first contact is not really a freewill contact isn't it?
When Mohamed went home he was under shock and his wife had to cover him because he was trembling with all his body. It was only his brother in law, the mysterious scribe waraqa-ibn-newfel, who assured him that the guy was a thing from god and from there all started.
When you follow the history of Mohamed you see a decent fellow being ponerized little by little (during 23 years) by his visitations. One of the stories that shocked me when i was a kid is when during a battle he made some prisoners and the "angel" ordered him to execute them, pretexting that god knows better than him. Mohamed cried because he didn't want to, but submitted (Islam means submission) and executed the prisoners.
He may have existed, or he is just a legend to support the actions of a group of individuals. Who knows? In any case, the mode of interaction, as well as the doctrine, is clearly STS in nature.

As for being a descendant of Mohamed, everybody claims to descend from Mohammed's daughter (According to the official legend all his male children died), to have some power. Nobody can prove nor disprove that. The Bani Hachem tribe in Arabia claims that and they have nothing, the British gave the kingdom to the Al-Saoud instead. That's just politics IMHO.
 
Thank You mkrnhr and mechanimated for your answers. It gives me much explanation.
This is why I always had a problem with Islam even through I am born into a muslim familly. When I read the Koran one of the first thing said is you must submit to Allah if not you'll be burnt or something like that. After reading this I immediately put down the book and I couldn't understand how people could be so much into the religion.
 
But, it is interesting because of the command to read. Muslims became bearers of knowledge from ancient Greece and the near east and through their conquest they had a lot of effects on the world as it one of those being laying the seeds of the Renaissance (Moors),
 
bngenoh said:
But, it is interesting because of the command to read. Muslims became bearers of knowledge from ancient Greece and the near east and through their conquest they had a lot of effects on the world as it one of those being laying the seeds of the Renaissance (Moors),

Yes, but the devil in the details. When Mohamed encountered the strange guy in the Hera cave, the guy told him "read!", and Mohamed replied "I'm not a reader". When i was a kid i was puzzled by this answer. A logical answer would be "i read what you idiot? don't you see we are in a cave in the middle of the night?" :)

Well, the conversation repeated a few times: the guy "read!" Mohamed "I'm not a reader", until the guy started to read the first verses "read in he name of your lord who created man from a clot, read in the name of your lord the bountiful who taught the man with the the pen that what the man doesn't know". Note that this god did not create man from nothingness but from a clot of blood, and taught him not from divine inspiration through the heart but through physical means. Anyway. Muslims believe that Mohamed did that answer because he did not know to read, but there was nothing to read! They say that he was analphabet (Ummi).

I think that this an-alphabetism has been invented later to imply that he did not invent the Koran himself. However, he was a successful merchant from a noble and rich town family (he had contempt for those Bedouins of the desert) and he traveled a lot between the multicultural Mecca to the multicultural fertil crescent. During his travels he is even said to have lived with monks. One possibility for this word "ummi" is that is has been used later by the "Omayyad" dynasty who took over the Muslim word after having assassinated Uthman, the fourth Calif (from whom the official Koran has been compiled, burning all other versions from Mohamed disciples and family). One other possibility is that "Ummi" means "from mother" (mother = "umm" in Arabic) as he maybe was a goddess follower (the cave where he was meditating is named "Hera") since we know from the Koran itself that there was also some Greek mythological influence alongside Judaism and christianism, for instance where the famous verses where the cranes (the birds) are mentioned.

Some have suggested that "I'm not a reader" which transcribes in Arabic into "qari'" meant that he was not from the karaites, who were the rabbis who were able to read from the Torah. And maybe the "Ummi" thing is just to say that he didn't know the Torah because he wasn't allowed to read from it (to imply that what he says about Abraham, Moises and Joseph comes from god, not from his own knowledge).

When he returned from the cave he was in deep shock and trembling. It is his brother-in-law, the mysterious Waraqa-ibn-Newfel, a Jewish scribe and poet who convinced him that the guy he saw in the cave was an angel from god, and from that it all started according to the legend.

Having interpreted the "read!" comment by the next generation Muslims as a command to seek knowledge is indeed fortunate. Most of these Muslims were under threat from the religious zealots who saw badly their flirting with astrology and philosophy. They were most of the time under the protection of the Prince of the time. Most of these scientists were from Persia and i suspect that they used the fluid interpretation of some unclear Koranic references as a protection to work independently, as do the Sufis mystics. Maybe strategic enclosure :)
 
Read this thread also: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=17790.0 and especially the linked paper.
 
DianaRose94 said:
And I was wondering why muslim and jewish don't have the right to eat pork. What is behing it?

The Holy Quran has mentioned the forbiddance of the swine meat in four verses: -

1-Allah (SWT) says what means in the Holy Qu'ran : {He has forbidden you only the Maitah (dead animals ), and blood and the meat of swine and that, which is slaughtered as a sacrifice for others than Allah (or has been slaughtered for idols on which Allah’s Name has not been mentioned while slaughtering). But if one is forced by necessity without willful disobedience nor transgressing due limits, then there is no sin on him. Truly, Allah is Oft Forgiving, Most Merciful} Al-Baqarah 173

2-And Allah (SWT) says what means in the Holy Quran : {Forbidden to you (for food) are: Al-Maitah (the dead animals – cattle-beast not slaughtered). Blood, the meat of swine, and that on which Allah’s Name has not been mentioned while slaughtering (that which has been slaughtered as a sacrifice for others than Allah, or has been slaughtered for idols) and that which has been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a heading fall, or by the goring of horn- and that which has been (partly) eaten by a wild animal- unless you are able to slaughter it (before its death)- and that which is sacrificed (slaughtered) on An-Nusub (stone- altars)(Forbidden) also is to use arrows seeking luck or decision : (all) that is Fisqun( disobedience of Allah and sin).This day, those who disbelieved have given up all hope of Your religion: so fear them not, but fear Me. This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But as for him who is forced by severe hunger, with no inclination to sin (such can eat these above mentioned meats), then surely, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful} Al-Ma’idah: 3

3-And Allah (SWT ) says what means in the Holy Quran {Say (Oh Mohammed -PBUH -) “ I found not in that which has been revealed to me anything forbidden to be eaten by one who wishes to eat it, unless it be Maitah (a dead animal) or blood poured forth (by slaughtering or the like), or the meat of swine (pork); for that, is impure or impious (unlawful) meat (of an animal) which is slaughtered as a sacrifice for others than Allah (or has been slaughtered for idols, or in which Allah’s Name has not being mentioned while (slaughtering).But Whosoever is forced by necessity without willful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits;( for him) certainly, your lord is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful } Al-An’ am 145

4- Also Allah (SWT) says what means in the Holy Quran {He has forbidden you only Al-Maitah (meat of dead animal), blood, the meat of swine, and any animal which is slaughtered as a sacrifice for others than Allah (or has been slaughtered for idols or on which Allah’s Name has not been mentioned while slaughtering). But if one is forced by necessity, without willful disobedience, and not transgressing, then, Allah is Oft- forgiving, most Merciful} An-Nahl 115


_http://www.quran-m.com/firas/en1/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=148:the-forbiddance-of-the-swine-meat-as-ordained-in-the-holy-quran-&catid=36:life-sciences&Itemid=92
Pork is the most filthy and dirty creature in the animal kingdom, it's reponsible for hundreds of diseases like tapeworms and others.

Also I was wondering what was Mohamed true story. Was he truly a prophet ?

About the story, it is :) _http://falsehoodgo.webs.com/thesealednectar.htm

And he was- peace and blessings be upon him and his followers till the day of recompence .
_http://www.ismailfaruqi.com/articles/why-islam/
 
Hello MedKnight - being new to our forum, it would be great if you could post an introduction in the Newbies section and let us know how you found the forum.

I don't think quoting the Koran is really answering the question, however, though your input is interesting. The pork raised in the United States at this point is almost wholly free of all types of worms and parasites (trichinosis being the most common) and it is against the law to use antibiotics in the raising of pork, as well, from what I understand.

I love pork - it's a great source of protein and essential fatty acids! :)

When you say it is the cause of 'hundreds of diseases' - it would be great to get some data to back that statement up, since I don't think that is actually the case.
 
I worked with a Russian kid who had aspirations of being Imam. We had discussions about religion, the Koran, the Torah, possibility of higher intelligences...but whenever hard pressed for explanations, he would always revert back to, "The Koran says it is so. So it is." Then I would ask him, "What makes the Koran a valid explanation for anything?" And he would invariably reply, "It is Allah's word." And then I would ask, "How do you know this to be fact?" And he would say, "Because the Koran says it is so. So it is.' etc etc etc.

He also told me that, since he elucidated me on the word of Allah, now I could be saved. If I did not accept the Koran and Allah, then I was eternally damned. I said, "See you in hell then, my friend." He thought that was funny.
 
Bar Kochba said:
I worked with a Russian kid who had aspirations of being Imam. We had discussions about religion, the Koran, the Torah, possibility of higher intelligences...but whenever hard pressed for explanations, he would always revert back to, "The Koran says it is so. So it is." Then I would ask him, "What makes the Koran a valid explanation for anything?" And he would invariably reply, "It is Allah's word." And then I would ask, "How do you know this to be fact?" And he would say, "Because the Koran says it is so. So it is.' etc etc etc.

He also told me that, since he elucidated me on the word of Allah, now I could be saved. If I did not accept the Koran and Allah, then I was eternally damned. I said, "See you in hell then, my friend." He thought that was funny.

Ah, is that what the pitch fork is for then? :evil:
 
Bar Kochba said:
I worked with a Russian kid who had aspirations of being Imam. We had discussions about religion, the Koran, the Torah, possibility of higher intelligences...but whenever hard pressed for explanations, he would always revert back to, "The Koran says it is so. So it is." Then I would ask him, "What makes the Koran a valid explanation for anything?" And he would invariably reply, "It is Allah's word." And then I would ask, "How do you know this to be fact?" And he would say, "Because the Koran says it is so. So it is.' etc etc etc.

He also told me that, since he elucidated me on the word of Allah, now I could be saved. If I did not accept the Koran and Allah, then I was eternally damned. I said, "See you in hell then, my friend." He thought that was funny.

Muslims are being taught from very very young (indoctrinated) not to question the Holy Koran or the words of Muhammad. Muslims believes that all that is in the Koran is the absolute truth and nothing but the truth. And if one ever ventured to question or worse, defy what is written, then all condemnation will be fallen to you! You are then being regarded as "kafir" and you will be burned in hell in all eternity! Unless you take back what you said, or repent in the name of Allah! :P

So when you said what you said to your Russian kid friend, Bar Kochba, of course he finds it funny as he is never going to hell. He'll be in heaven with Allah and Muhammad!

You know what, if all in heaven are people who can't think and can't act freely, fully restricted by a book that they cannot ask questions about, heck, it sounds very much like hell to me!
 
OMG, Bar Kochba, I too had this kind of conversation with some of my muslim friends,lol. I don't know if I have mentionned it but I was born in a muslim familly, through my parents never forced the religion on us. But of course we didn't eat pork. The funny thing is that supposely I'm a descendant of Mohamed but I don't even follow islam anymore, I don't follow any religion anymore. Once I was trying to talk religion with my mother and she basically told me that having no religion is bad, I asked her why but all she could come up with was it's bad.
Today I even ate pork for the first time of my life, I wanted to see what is was like. If my parents knew, they would think I lost my sanity,lol.
 
When I was young I always questioned my religious teachers about some of the Islamic teachings (that I thought were very contradicting). Of course the answer would be, " These are God's word through Quran. Don't question it as the devils will sway your mind towards evil/hell." Even until now none of my Muslim friends want to talk about history of this religion, or discussing its content with scientific proof. Most just avoid the topic and accept it as it is.

Even my identity card has Islam printed on it. And it's not something you can change. There's a time a lady wanted to change her religion and it became a sensation. In the end, no one knows what's the outcome. Talk about free will.
 
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