Is Paypal collapsing?

dantem

dantem

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Hi,

I live in Italy and I buy a lot of stuff online, by now mainly books and detox supplements.

Last week I wanted to make a purchase from an US seller and on their website the best payment method is through paypal. So I've chosen the items and put them on the basket, but after a few clicks i stumbled on paypal's site and it was down. It went down from Thursday 20 to Saturday 22, then I was able to make the payment on Sunday.

Then an issue came up with the item I've bought and the seller decided to refund me. Now the refund has arrived, but again, from Wednesday and on the paypal site is unreachable. Nothing, paypal.com and paypal.it, .ca, .co.uk won't work, there's a void after the login page.

Is this a local issue confined to Italy perhaps? The site being blocked from this area only?

I've just perused a dozen of IT sites here, but apart a couple of them, they refers to past histories of paypal's server down. No updates.

I'm going crazy with that! ... :shock:
 
I've just checked my Paypal account and it works fine from eastern side of Adriatic. I'm gonna buy some CS in next few days and if I encounter difficulties I'm gonna report it.
 
Just checked it and it's always down here. Do they block IP's perhaps?

Thanks for the quick reply Regulattor!
 
There can be problems with some sites being "down" from time to time if your ISP has dodgy DNS. You could try searching for OpenDNS and/or OpenNIC and use one of them instead (following the instructions for configuring one of them for use instead of the default, your ISP's DNS). If this fixes the problem, then there you go. If not, there might still be a small speed benefit to be had. (also, OpenNIC adds support for some new kinds of domain names used by an independent registrar and a few obscure sites using it)
 
I had a PayPal transaction on Saturday (22 Nov) and had no problems. I have been using PayPal for a couple of years for my online business and every now and then it is down for maintenance, but I have not noticed it being down for days at a time. How very strange. Have you written to them?
 
FireShadow said:
I had a PayPal transaction on Saturday (22 Nov) and had no problems. I have been using PayPal for a couple of years for my online business and every now and then it is down for maintenance, but I have not noticed it being down for days at a time. How very strange. Have you written to them?
Click to expand...

Damned thing I've ever seen... now after 20 minutes after midnight it started working again. So it seems that it went down 3 days last week and another 3 days this week. Last week it was from Thursday to Sunday, and this one it was from Wednesday to Friday, and always after a money transaction. First time from me to the seller and then from the seller to my account. That's odd.

Cannot write to them, but heck I was about to ask for a contact somewhere, just because I cannot see the site entirely.

Now I'm reading into websites like paypalsucks, paypalwarning dot com and the Italian Ebay forum that it seems they are blocking randomly accounts for a number of days to keep the money on their own account and profit from interests.

Only coincidence is that this time just prior to being able to log on paypal I've played a bit with the Ethernet cable here to to be sure it wasn't some odd network glitch. It's improbable as an explanation for the issue I had, as last week I didn't switched anything, I had just to wait till that Sunday, and I've surfed on at least 100+ websites, logging in and out with no problem (paypal apart!)

Do they got me -randomly- this time?!? :curse:
 
dantem said:
Cannot write to them, but heck I was about to ask for a contact somewhere, just because I cannot see the site entirely.
Click to expand...

there is a call center, i think in France (manned by people who speak very bad English) - I called them once when I had problems with my password and they were very helpful. Other then that i never had any problems.
Just in case you didn't write it down and cannot access their site again - here is the number and working hours:
00353 1 436 9111

6:00 to 16:00 Monday to Friday
8:00 to 16:00 Saturday
9:00 to 16:00 Sunday

But you raised interesting question - I was always wondering how does Pay Pal profit from this service.

The explanation about deliberate blocking of the accounts doesn't make much sense. In order to significantly profit from the interests they would need to block large number of accounts. At least this is how it seems to me, but I am not an expert in internet transactions and finances.
Maybe someone with more insight can explain this better.
 
PayPal charges a fee for each transaction - on the part of the person receiving the money. This is how they profit and they profit very, very well.
 
You might want to take a quick look at: http://www.paypalsucks.com/ Even though the name might be a bit juvenile its packed with lawsuits, Terms of Service analysis.
Many users post their horror stories about canceled accounts, lost money and so on.

Here are a few highlights:

1. According to PayPal accepting their ToS (Terms of Service) in effect means you waive your rights to credit card consumer protection laws if you want to use their service, and that you may not issue a chargeback for unauthorized use of your credit card and PayPal account, or if you do, then they have the right to limit your account. Is this legal? We don't know. But it's how Paypal operates.

3. Their terms of service are not completely disclosed upon signup and some key "conditions" are not disclosed. They fail to mention their total lack of security to prevent your account from being compromised by phishing & spoof sites. That if your account is accessed by a criminal using one of these methods, PayPal will hold YOU monetarily & legally responsible! Also, no place do they openly tell potential members that their money is 100% at risk. That PayPal can, will, and has in the past, completely cleaned out customers' accounts, (including your checking or savings account) with no appeals process available. Instead they bury in the fine print of 37 pages of their "Terms of Service" (ToS) where they disclose to you that PayPal can close your account for any reason what-so-ever, or no reason, and then you have to wait 180 days to get your money.


5. If you are a bona fide, up-standing individual with hundreds of successful transactions, but someone pays you with a stolen credit card, your account (by PayPal's own admission) is immediately flagged as being "criminal behavior" and any money in that account is confiscated. If a customer "disputes" the charge, same thing happens. (See email above.) PayPal claims that they will fight chargebacks, but read this before you fall for that one.

Im sure there are more stuff worth checking but even a little knowledge protects.


edit: Paypal works for me and I have not had any problems with them.
 
The explanation about deliberate blocking of the accounts doesn't make much sense. In order to significantly profit from the interests they would need to block large number of accounts. At least this is how it seems to me, but I am not an expert in internet transactions and finances.
Maybe someone with more insight can explain this better.
Click to expand...

Whatever the case may be, it's standard operating procedure in Italy to delay payment for precisely that reason, and yes, lots of businesses do it on a grand scale.
 
Yeah, paypal sucks in many ways but maybe I was a bit in a hurry for this one. Anyway the set of coincidences just made my jaw drop.

It happened that I had also an issue with the lan here at home that I wasn't aware of, or so it seemed. First of all I noticed that one of my Ethernet adapters wasn't communicating well with the router, but it wasn't affecting the overall Internet surfing: it came out it was a switch of the firewall software that was set too high in protection.

After removing this one the problem persisted! So I checked the router with another PC and it was working fine too, but still no paypal. Then noticed that inside the router configuration the firewall hardware was turned on on a remote menu... switched it off and paypal worked also on the main PC! Gosh, in the meanwhile I had the Ethernet card replaced with a new one, quite a lot of handy work and Sunday's shopping far away from my town.

The mystery still persist. How it was that I was able to enter any pw protected sites, from blogs to internet banking with that hardware firewall turned on by default, but paypal? What's about this hw firewall switch that only paypal do not like?
There's no way to dig inside this hw firewall setting, it has none. Just a on and off small button.

Hope that this rocambolesque adventure may be of help to someone else. Thanks so far to All, it drove me nuts for an entire week :shock:
 
FWIW and knock on wood, I had no issue with Paypal recently. I used it just the other day. Earlier in the fall, I had a transaction dispute with a non-paying eBay bidder, and it went smoothly too.

That being said, it's perhaps a good idea to keep as little balance on it as possible, and also not link it to your main bank account and\or main credit card.

GRiM, thank you for the information, will certainly keep it in mind.
 
I've been researching ways to make money online and stumbled across these anti-Paypal websites (paypalsucks.com, paypalwarning.com, and aboutpaypal.org). My family currently has Paypal linked to our bank account, and I'm a bit concerned about this. We don't usually keep much in that account, but the thought that they could at any time of their choosing empty our bank account or freeze the paypal account so that we can't do any transactions is very concerning.

One thing I notice is that the three sites mentioned above all link to one another and seem to share the same discussion forum, and they all recommend merchantinc.com as a paypal alternative. I'm still not sure what to think, but I wonder what exactly the relationship is between these anti-Paypal sites and merchantinc is. On the other hand, if I manage to get a business going for myself and use paypal, I certainly won't be able to afford having my paypal account frozen for 6 months!

I found this comment about paypalsucks.com, but no references given. I think by "this company" he means merchantinc.com
_http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/paypalsuckscom-c413750.html
This website, although useful for people venting about their frustrations with PayPal, has to be a scam site that targets these vulnerable people. I was dissatisfied with PayPal to and started searching for a new merchant account to handle my credit card trans and found this site. The more and more I think about it, it's set up by this company called National Merchant Bancard. They probably have about 20 different sites that all list the same content. I've read scam stories about this co too! The terms of service and contract or full listings of rates are not fully disclosed, they just want you to sign up. Funnel your hatred and sign up with us and don't think twice? I didn't so I don't know for sure but common sense will say that this co is far from professional and what I would want from a Merchant working with me.
Click to expand...

A Whois search verified that those three sites are all run by the same person or group, but have different info from merchantinc.com.
 
From my understanding, Paypal either can't withdraw funds from your checking account without your express permission first, or can't do so IF you haven't used instant transfer to pay someone from your bank account--I'm not sure if paying via instant transfer empowers them to withdraw funds from your bank account or not, though I personally don't use the function.

However, they can freeze your account at any time for any reason and for any length of time (I think for any length of time--they aren't regulated the same as a bank, for certain, and so don't have many of the legal requirements that banks do). For that reason, I recommend transferring your money to bank account immediately upon receipt when possible.

As for the paypalsucks.com et al sites, I wouldn't be surprised if they were created by competitors, though I still personally use paypal and see it as a risk that I try to manage. An alternative that is good would be nice, but it's the same issue of all times--for it to be useful, it needs the userbase and to get the userbase, it needs to be useful (the standard catch-22). Any competitors that emerge that become viable will probably have the same essential issues as paypal, I imagine.

A personal story--I had someone open a dispute against me in paypal once. I had already withdrawn the money to my bank account, so I had a negative balance (the dispute put the funds in "escrow", in a way). They seemed unable to withdraw the funds from my checking account but said that any transfers I paid or recived would have to first cover the negative balance before being sent--in other words, I had to pay the balance first if I wanted to continue using paypal. It ended up getting cleared up (as the dispute was baseless), but I closed that account and opened one under another email just to avoid the individual who opened the dispute. It's never happened again since.

FWIW.
 
Dantem,

Have you tried using a web anonymizer service, which blocks your true IP adress? An example (which I use) is WiTopia. It basically creates an encrypted VPN tunnel to one of their many servers worldwide (which you can choose) and all PayPal can see is their IP adress.

Now this might not work in this case if they block your account based on other data then your IP adress (however this is a common method and is very easy technically), but I think that if you already have such a service up and running it might be worth trying to use it, if blockage occurs again.

I myself have used PayPal a lot and have never had any problems so far.

Just as an aside, it is a good idea to use such a service anyway, if you use your computer in public spaces, like Wi-Fi hotspots etc. Though I don't have the illusion that it might help prevent government snooping, but at least it keeps the "ordinary petty criminal" who's trying to snoop Wi-Fi traffic at bay.
 
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