Imagining the tenth dimension

I think its strange to say that its "stored somewhere". If its stored somewhere, then where is the storage stored?

What I mean is - what if nothing ever changed, or changes, except the perception of living beings? In other words, only changing (or travelling to) perception requires calculation, and everything, even different perceptions, have always existed, and will always exist. Perhaps even seeing a computer take a long time to calculate something, is just another part of the universe which was already there?

When we see something unfold, maybe its like having a key to a door - the contents are already in the room behind the door, they don't need to be calculated when you open the door.
 
Russ said:
ark said:
Of course the "true" fractal has an infinite depth (infinitely many details, and infinite zoom possibility). In the graph above I choose only a certain, rather low, level (lavel=3) of details.
To get more details I would need run my computer VERY long (hours, days, years, etc.) So, the 1 million dollar question is: how is Nature computing ALL THAT, in no time at all?
What if it doesn't have to compute it, or its all been "pre-computed"? Is that a possibility?
Maybe it doesn't need to compute, just 'run program'. The program was always there (always was?) It's just the 'running' that takes time and that is from our (time limited) perspective.

I thought that cube looked a little like an illustration of something that was able to be 'in two places at once'.
 
Ruth said:
Maybe it doesn't need to compute, just 'run program'. The program was always there (always was?) It's just the 'running' that takes time and that is from our (time limited) perspective.
The problem is that a program requires time to run, and so, if time is a program, then a program that needs to run wouldn't be the one that is responsible for time. Then again, maybe it is :D

Ruth said:
I thought that cube looked a little like an illustration of something that was able to be 'in two places at once'.
This is off topic, but I was thinking that if there is only one observer, and all that changes is what is observed, then the observer is always in infinite different places at once (its everywhere). It just reacts differently according to what is observed. The observations then come from different instances of itself, in infinite different places at once, each place different to the other, and with different observations to the other. I find it so interesting, its ultimate simplicity and complexity all at once. Actually its the most interesting idea I have ever had in my mind. Maybe that doesn't say much about my mind though, lol :D :D
 
Russ said:
Ruth said:
Maybe it doesn't need to compute, just 'run program'. The program was always there (always was?) It's just the 'running' that takes time and that is from our (time limited) perspective.
The problem is that a program requires time to run, and so, if time is a program, then a program that needs to run wouldn't be the one that is responsible for time. Then again, maybe it is :D
A program requires time to run? I guess it does in this density, but in others, who knows?

Maybe there is a 'program' for time as well... obviously the one we haven't 'cracked' yet! :D Seeing as those 4th density beings know how to fiddle-faddle with it, and we don't.
 
What if a program runs in time which is the cause of time? ;)

We don't know if anything ever happened, all we know is that something is "here". So, time is kind of strange... it can't be proven to exist. But programs do appear to require time, here, at least. But I don't think its not a matter of something happening first, and then something else happening later. Its more like everything is the cause of everything. Even a grain of salt is the cause of everything, and everything is the cause of a grain of salt. Like, time is the cause of programs and programs are the cause of time, which seems to cancel the posibilitly of time out - ie, time is impossible, and so are programs - because, for the statement to be true, time cannot exist.

Ok... maybe my logic is flawed, but it makes sense to me. But I will admit that I'm not 100% on it ;D
 
Well my comment was more a joke then an actual suggestion. If you watch the flash animation linked above it would be the next logical suggestion of the author. I bet he mentions it in his book.
 
Let me try to follow this logically and see if I get anywhere:

To compute an infinite number of details would require either an infinite amount of time, or an infinitely powerful computer. If you have neither, you can only compute a finite amount of details. So if a true fractal DOES have an infinite amount of details (which it must by definition), the universe would need at least one (or both) of the above to compute the entire fractal into "existance" all at once.

My first question is: How do we know that the universe has to compute the entire infinite fractal? What if it computes only as much as it "needs" at any one time and no more? What I mean is, if you look at a fractal, the fractal is computed only to the extent that you can perceive it (the resolution of the computation is only as high as the resolution of your perception), and no more? And if you increase the resolution of your perception, the universe will increase the resolution it computes "reality" to. I mean technically, as long as the computation is not INFINITE, it does not require infinite time NOR infinite computational power, so it just needs to be powerful ENOUGH to fool human perception, or the perception of anyone that happens to be observing. Of course, there would be a big problem if an entity ever reached "infinite perception", that would crash the universe just like a computer program would crash if you divide by zero. Cuz when you divide by zero the answer is really "infinity" since there are infinity 0's in any number - so an infinite perception would force a processor that is incapable of infinite computation to compute to infinity - in other words, crash! Can you crash the universe? lol

But what if the universe does compute itself infinitely? Well, then it needs either infinite time or infinite computational power. There are some theories as to how it might have those put forth by the C's.

The C's said that the universe goes forward and backwards in time simultaneously: anti-matter (one half of existance) goes backwards, matter (the other half) goes forwards, so when you add it together it cancels each other out and so the total "time" of existance is always 0. So maybe one way to achieve "infinite time" is to do something like that, so you can achieve infinity in exactly "0 time" and so an infinite computation takes no "time" at all, literally!

If the universe has infinite time, then computational power no longer matters at all - as long as there exists more than 0 (none) computatinal power, it is sufficient to compute infinity of existance given infinite time.

However, an infinitely powerful processor, on the other hand, would not need any time to compute infinity - it would take exactly 0 time to do so. But strangely, the 2 ideas above (infinite processor vs infinite time) seem to be one and the same - a finite processor that has an infinite amount of time is really an "infinite processor" anyway, especially considering the idea that the infinite amount of time might happen in "0 time" as the C's have suggested.

I think the universe most probably has infinite "time", but it is not linear at all, and so all things can somehow be accomplished simultaneously in "0 time". This would explain why the C's constantly say that everything that could possibly exist, did, does, and will, all simultaneously. And of course "everything" is infinite, because "everything" includes things like fractals that are infinite etc.

One way to maybe grasp how time could be infinite is to consider that something could never have come out of nothing. So if absolute nothingness ever "existed", then forevermore nothing would exist. If something exists, that means something always existed. "Always" means forever, but because you can never reach infinity, there cannot be "infinity of time" in our past. If there is "infinity of time" behind us in the past (which there MUST be if there was no beginning so our past is infinite), then we crossed infinity to get to the "present". But you cannot "cross infinity" since it takes FOREVER to cross, you'd never get to infinity linearly! The only way the "present" could exist is if the past is not infinite, which means, to get to the present we didn't do the impossible - we didn't have to cross infinity. But this would imply that there was a BEGINNING to all things, which is also impossible because that means something had to come out of total nothingness.

So it seems to me that linear time simply cannot possibly exist, and the reality of "time" is in NO WAY linear - that there is no past/present/future except through an illusory/linear/finite perspective as we now have.

I must admit this almost gives me a headache thinking about it, but it does makes perfect sense when I am able to partially grok it, and that's on a good day.

Must end this with a joke I read somewhere:

Black holes are when God divided by 0. :D

But seriously, can you imagine having to debug and then recompile the universe? Do you have to send an "estimated downtime" notice to all the users? :D
 
After Scio wrote his last post there was a big flash of light and poof he was gone to 4th density. At long last the mystery of time was cracked from 3d density.
One of the last things he said was to his cat, "I'm going to write a Ruby on Rails front-end for this universe debugger".

LOL.

Thanks for the insightful post.
 
Naw, Scio-you just put all the updates into a Service Pack and send 'em out-and issue "patches" if your debugging gums up the works... :)
 
If you used an M$ system where you did your debugging, just press "reset".
Should work after that.
 
You know if you put your hand onto the side of your head, and it disspappears, where does it go? Its really kind of spooky. I mean, people accept it, and say "well, you just can't see it". But what is that... nothingness? Maybe its better if you put your hand under your chin, and try and look at the border where your hand goes into this nothingness. Lots of multicoloured sparkles are there. Is this a border between matter and antimatter, time and anti-time?

I mean, I think its just more strange than we think. I don't know where else this border can be seen except with vision. With hearing and feeling etc it would be really hard to "see" the border.

Also, I have been meditating on how my immediate memory joins with matter in the outside world. Like a flashing cursor - when the cursor dissappears, where does the cursor go? How do I know that the cursor is flashing - how do I know that the cursor "was" there when it isn't? I don't know! What I do know, is that I am seeing an empty space, which is connected with the memory of a cursor, and I don't know what the memory of the cursor is, I call it a memory, but I don't know what it is.

Like, in whatever moment I am in, I can say that I don't know what happened before it - or even if there ever WAS a "before". All of the memories and matter and thoughts are just there, and if I am really honest, I have no idea what is going on at all. Whenever I think that something has changed, thats all there is, the memory that things were different.

What is this? Its like a new reality is opening up, one where its based purely on knowledge. I don't know how to describe it, other than its like pure honesty. Its like, I am peeling my identification as human away, and something else is behind it, that I didn't even consider. Its not even overwhelming, it just feels natural. Its completely weird but its not scary at all. Its really incredible, that this exists, its like a doorway. Its not like I am imagining it either, its more like anti-imagination.

I really feel that this has been kept away from us, that we have been encouraged to ignore this. Like everything in the world is there to distract us away from it. Its like having so many assumptions and beliefs rammed down your throat that you literally are hypnotised to be completely blind to it. And its such an amazing way of looking at things. Its a source of strength, of protection from control. You just don't care anymore once you have seen this, because things are too inexplicable to act on illusions and assumptions.

I'm not saying I have it perfect... it takes a lot to purge the illusions I have built up over "time". They have become "default". But the choice is made, and they are being replaced by what really is. And what really is, is better anyway - its the best. The truth is good! People say, "the truth hurts", well, the truth heals, and healing hurts. But after a while it stops hurting.

I mean, I don't even know how many people on this forum know about this. This forum discusses the METHOD a lot, but the effects aren't spoken of as often, osit. Not many people are saying that, by comparison, its like an alien reality is opening up. Its not "human" like most people on the planet think that word means, its like turning into an alien. I am starting to feel like an alien... but not a nasty one :>
 
Russ said:
Also, I have been meditating on how my immediate memory joins with matter in the outside world. Like a flashing cursor - when the cursor dissappears, where does the cursor go? How do I know that the cursor is flashing - how do I know that the cursor "was" there when it isn't? I don't know! What I do know, is that I am seeing an empty space, which is connected with the memory of a cursor, and I don't know what the memory of the cursor is, I call it a memory, but I don't know what it is.

Like, in whatever moment I am in, I can say that I don't know what happened before it - or even if there ever WAS a "before". All of the memories and matter and thoughts are just there, and if I am really honest, I have no idea what is going on at all. Whenever I think that something has changed, thats all there is, the memory that things were different.
Well you know what "they" say, it's who you are and what you SEE that matters.

But I've thought about that before too, the idea that we know nothing about our past except what is currently in our memory banks, or what is written on some piece of paper etc - we have no way of knowing if any of that data is legitimate. We don't know if it is really a "record" or something else. Our memories are subjective, they are often influenced/distorted/filtered/vague and so we have to infer the objective events/reality from this vague mess called a memory. Some are more clear and precise than others, but none are like a tape recorder, there's always some subjectivity. And in dreams we can see our memories of things in the "past" but often molded with other things, and so the memory becomes something else entirely, something it never was. For example I often dream about a house I lived in when I was a young child back in Russia, but somehow in the dream I would be surrounded by all Americans and so basically the current world is molded with the old world in the weirdest ways, creating all sorts of freaky realities. The place could be real but all the events happening in the place could be something absolutely made up - like I might be fighting in a war back in that house, etc. Or the opposite, the events are real but the place is fake. So I might dream that I'm living with my current family just as I always do, but the house we live in is totally different and the place is totally different, and we just accept this in the dream as "normal". I only realise that it was all "wrong" when I wake up.

Very often when the C's are asked about past events, their response indicates that the past is not "set", it is just as variable as the future. So I'd say that our memories are subjective recordings of the past we perceived, but if there are any other possible pasts that could've happened that all could lead to the same present moment, then I think they all happened and are all real, and there's a version of ourselves that perceived those instead of the one we now remember. When the C's were asked about the formation of the earth and the universe, here is their response:

Q: (L) Was all the land on the planet earth formed into one vast continent at some point in earth's history?
A: Multiple history reality possibilities.
Q: (L) In this reality that we experience, was all the land joined into one vast continent?
A: Incorrect conceptualization.
Q: (L) Well, I don't know how to ask it. (J) Move on. (L) What is the source of energy generated by stars?
A: Transfer points cause friction thus producing energy.
Q: (L) Transfer points of what; from what to what?
A: Dimensions.
Q: (L) Now, this is going to be a strange question, but if you can help us out, relate this to something it would be very helpful. There are a lot of theories going around about the age of the universe. Some of the latest says that it is anywhere from 8 to 25 billion years old. I know that you have said that time is an illusion, but, in view of the fact that scientists are struggling with this one... [Much laughter] which of the figures that they have pulled out of the air, in terms of the time illusion itself, is the most correct?
A: None.
Q: (F) Does that answer the question satisfactorily? That's like saying: "Oh, that's an interesting store, what's in there?"
(L) Well, if none of the figures science has come up with is correct, what is the correct definition of the age of the universe?
A: Quasi-quantum possibilities.
Q: (L) What does that mean? [Laughter.] (J) Anybody's guess?! (L) Well, I think they are going to tell us something here.
A: Discover.
It appears that maybe the C's would see all the pasts, and so asking a question about "THE past" is silly because there is no such thing just as there is no "THE future" or even "THE present". And since there were many possible pasts that all could've led to this exact same present, all of them would be equally valid in the mind of someone who can perceive them all. And since there wasn't anyone from our current 3rd density civilization around "billions of years ago", they cannot refer to THEIR linear recording of what they perceived as a reference point to satisfy our desire for a linear answer. So if we ask them about the present, the only way they can answer it is by looking at the present WE are seeing and using our 3rd density linear perspective as a reference point for that answer, or so it seems.

Another clue to this maybe is when Laura and the group tried channeling with their eyes closed and didn't get any results, and then the C's said they cannot see the board. Could it be that they rely on our static/fixed/linear 3rd-density observation of our current present to see it? Otherwise, if we're not looking, and nobody around is looking, they might be seeing ALL realities, and so the existance of the ouija board and its configuration might also be totally variable until WE observe it and "fix" that reality into something they can work with? I guess that sounds like "quantum physics" where you might have only probability until an observer "defines" the reality by observing it. So by observing the ouija board, maybe Laura was defining her reality for the C's so they could work with it... Hmmm..

And that seems to relate to quasi-quantum possibilities they referred to earlier.
 
Its just seems like a big lie. All of what most people call evidence is not evidence at all. It really seems like a unnecessary lie. Its like - everything is the same, but we think its different. Take this very moment, or whatever moment you're in - how do you know its not all that exists... EVER? All of its there - the "convincement" that things operate in a certain way, but there isn't any proof at all. Its pretty much all a belief.

Like, I may think I have been on this planet for years, but what is a year? I don't know. I just have some "imaginary idea" on what it is. The same with nearly everything. For some reason its just accepted to "be ok" and "make sense" but really, those feelings just "exist". Any moment could exist - if its strange, strangness is in the moment, its its normal, normality is in the moment, etc etc. with all this "stuff" backing it up, as if to say "its true, its true!!!", why is it true? Theres no answer, just like someone who is telling you something that they have no proof for.

Like you say, I could have been anything, anywhere one second ago, but even that idea is part of what is here. Without any imagination at all, or, better - no attachment to imagination, there is no passage of time. What is here now is what has always been here. Something that we think has happened a second ago, is nonsense, really, isn't it? There is just the information "something happened a second ago" attached/connected to an imaginary understanding of what that means, which is attached/connected to belief that its true.

Its so easy to fall into it... its like walking on a tightrope. I could say, "I can't believe I ever believed some things I once believed", but I don't know that I ever did, so how can I say that?
 
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