Historical Geological-Climate Changes

I don't know if this topic is elsewhere, but I thought it would be a good place put it. One of the things that I found was extremely interesting about ancient history, is the fact that ancient geology was very different. This fact is not talked about very much and I think it could really make sense of a lot of ancient myths and legends.

Here's an example, I was surprised to learn about the existence of Doggerland.

From Wikipedia: _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerland
Doggerland is a name given by archaeologists and geologists to a former landmass in the southern North Sea that connected the island of Great Britain to mainland Europe during and after the last Ice Age, surviving until about 6,500 or 6,200 BCE and then gradually being flooded by rising sea levels. Geological surveys have suggested that Doggerland was a large area of dry land that stretched from Britain's east coast across to the present coast of the Netherlands and the western coasts of Germany and Denmark.[2] Doggerland was probably a rich habitat with human habitation in the Mesolithic period.[3]

The archaeological potential of the area had first been discussed in the early 20th century, but interest intensified in 1931 when a commercial trawler operating between the sandbanks and shipping hazards of the Leman Bank and Ower Bank east of the Wash dragged up a barbed antler point that dated to a time when the area was tundra. Later vessels have dragged up mammoth and lion remains, among other remains of land animals, and small numbers of prehistoric tools and weapons that were used by the region's inhabitants.

I'm not sure if anyone else has heard of this before, but to me this information is not very common. What kind of impact does this have on myths and legends. I could be wrong, I will have to check, but I think a flood was reported in the Oera Linda Book. Doggerland would be in the area that that book was written about.


The info can be read here _http://paleogeo.org/flood_en.html

What this is is a flood caused by glacial melt the expanded the Caspian Sea and connected it to the Black Sea.

Under "Flood" we understand the epoch of the Late Glacial inundation within the Ponto-Caspian basin at ~17 to 10 ka BP (with the maximum at 17-14 ka BP).

From Cléirigh, Micheál Ó, Robert Alexander Stewart Macalister, and Eoin Mac Neil. Leabhar Gabhála: The Book of Conquest of Ireland. (Dublin: Hodges, Figgis, 1916)

Three men and fifty maidens went in that ship with Cesair. On Tuesday, so far as regards the day of the week, they went therein. Then they rowed from Meroe Island, a-fleeing from the flood, to the Tyrrhene Sea. Eighteen days they had on the Caspian Sea. Twenty days thence till they reached the Cimmerian Sea. One day till they reached Asia Minor, between Syria and the Tyrrhene Sea. Twenty days they had thence to the Alps. Eighteen days from the Alps to Spain. Nine days from Spain to Ireland. A Saturday they reached Ireland, in the fifteenth day of the moon; and the place where they took harbour was at Dun na mBarc in Corco Duibhne.

The name of the heroine in this story is Cesair, which is also the Irish word for Caesar, which is similar to Khazar, which was what the Turkic people called the Caspian Sea, the Khazar Sea, which was also called Daryā-i Xazar by the Persians, which was named for the Caspi (Khazar) peoples who occupied the Caspian Sea region.

Normally, under current geography, it would seem ridiculous to say that a group rowed from the Caspian Sea, to the Cimmerian Sea (possibly a name for the Black Sea) to the Mediterranean (The Tyrrhenian Sea is near Italy) in a boat. But it makes more sense when you realize that all those bodies of water were connected at one time.

Another thing I didn't know about was that there was once a Pannonian Sea in what is now the Pannonian Plain in Central Europe. The Wikipedia article [_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannonian_Sea] says that "Its last remains disappeared in the middle of Pleistocene Epoch, about 600,000 years ago." However, this article says that it remained as a lake at the end of the Upper Pleistocene.

Here is the article: _http://geolib.geo.auth.gr/digeo/index.php/sasg/article/viewFile/7588/7345

Abstract: The new studies on the southeastern part of the Pannonian Depression confirm our idea con- cerning the existence in this basin of a lake with its shores around +100 m in the Uppermost Pleistocene (the Relict Pannonian Lake, Belgrade – 2006). A morphologic peculiarity placed in the Cazanele Mici area seems to have been permitted the maintaining of the shores for some time at this elevation. The Relict Pannonian Lake could be the direct successor of the Middle Pleistocene Lake made evident as a paleogeographical reality by the Serbian scientists (Beograde, 2006) in the southeastern part of the Pan- nonian Basin. The severe restriction of the surface of this lake has taken place at the beginning of the Holocene, as a result of the mega-floods, which mark the boundary between the Pleistocene and the Holocene. Therefore, a successor of the Relict Pannonian Lake seems to have maintained for some time in the Lower Holocene with its shore around the +85 m elevation. This perspective confirms the idea of some geomorphology researchers, which accepted a gradual retirement of the Pannonian Lake in Qua- ternary, associated with a succession of shorelines. In this case, the finalization of the stream system of the Danube, as a unitary river, has very recently happened (in Upper Holocene). In addition a possible connection between a stream system tributary to the Black Sea and another one tributary to the Panno- nian area along the actual Danube Gorge could be realized only in the Greben zone (most probably dur- ing the Pasadenian phase). The existence of the Relict Pannonian Lake at the end of the Upper Pleisto- cene seems to be confirmed by the altitude of the all pre-historical sites in the Pannonian area. In addi- tion, important data of mythical paleogeography are consistent with all these possible paleogeographical realities of the Pannonian area.

Could this be a possible explaination of the "northern islands of Greece" from the Leabhar Gabhála: The Book of Conquest of Ireland.

These are the lands whither they went: Semeon with his nine to the lands of Greece; lobath son of Beothach with his people to the northern islands of Greece—he had gone after the death of his father to Ireland; Briotan and his father Ferghus Redside to Mon Conain in Wales.

In current geography, there are no northern islands of Greece, there are southern islands and the northern mainland, but if there was a Pannonian Lake, at that time, with islands, then those would be islands in the north of Greece. But they also maybe talking about a different Greece than the Meditereannian Greece. The Irish tales also mention "Greeks of Scythia".

I don't know, but I haven't heard of these things before and they are not commonly talked about. Its like I found an artifact and I don't know what it is, but I know its gotta be important to someone.
In the transcript of 'Session 31 May 1997' found at:


the Cs say that the Celts/Kantekkians took up residence in the British Isles about 10,000 B.C., which is at the end of the Ice Age and also near the cometary event which killed off the mega-fauna: saber-tooth tigers, mammoths, etc., which Laura discusses in her book "Comets and the Horns of Moses", which can be found here:


Q: When did the Celts or Kantekkians first take up residence in the British Isles?

A: Same. 12,000 years ago.

If that is the case, then it seems like the landmass of the British Isles could have likely been more like a peninsula extending from the continent with areas of the North Sea actually above sea level. In any case, I think it is reasonable to suspect that the geographical features of the area was different from what it is today.

That being said, I had an idea that I would like to share. What if some of the myths and legends of the Irish actually extend from the 10,000 B.C. time period and include, or even took place on the British mainland. Specifically, any legends that might possibly include a description of Stonehenge, Atlantis, or Troy. They are kind of big deals.

I think I have found a possible Irish story that may, or may not, be a telling of a tale that relates to all three.

The tale is found in the "Leabhar gabhála" (the Book of conquests of Ireland) by Micheál Ó Cléirigh, which can be read/downloaded in pdf form here:


I will include the entire tale instead of just the parts that I found indicative of Stonehenge, Atlantis, or Troy, so that the reader will have a greater context. Its a little lengthy, but it is an interesting story nonetheless. So if you have the time and are interested, just get a cup of tea and enjoy the tale:

51. Now there was a great oppression on the children of Neimhedh after that, since their champions and their chieftains were destroyed in the aforesaid battles, and since Neimhedh died with the number we have mentioned. Those at whose hands they suffered that oppression were Conainn son of Faebar of the Fomoire, and More son of Dele the other chief. The fortress-house of Conainn at that time was at Tor Conainn, which is called Toirinis Ceittne, to the North-West of Ireland. A sheep-land was made of Ireland by them, so that not a venture was made to let smoke be seen by day from a house that was in it, except with the consent of the Fomhoire. Two-thirds of their corn, their milk, and their children, with other intolerable burdens, as they used to demand, this is what was given to them; and the men of Ireland had to deliver every item to them always on Samhain eve at Magh Cetne. For this reason is it called Magh Cetne, for the frequency they had to pay the heavy tax there to the Fomhoire; and the men of Ireland had a by-word at that time, asking one another, "Is it to the same plain (magi cetna) the tax will be brought on this occasion?" So that thence was the plain named.

52. Now wrath and rage seizes the Children of Neimhedh for the heaviness of their distress and the injuriousness of their tax; so that the three chieftains whom they had plotted to cause their people throughout Ireland to collect and assemble, so that they should arrive at one place. They act accordingly; and having reached one spot, they resolve on one counsel, to proceed to Conainn's Tower to demand alleviation of their oppression from the Fomhoire, or to fight with them.

53. These were their chieftains; Ferghus Redside son of Neimhedh, Semeon son of larbonel son of Neimhedh, and Erglan son of Beoan son of Stam son of Neimhedh. There were other princes and nobles in that assembly besides, with Artur the Great, son of Neimhedh, and Alma Onetooth, son of Neimhedh, etc. Thirty thousand on sea, and the same number on land, was the tale of the Children of Neimhedh who went to that destruction, besides foreigners, wastrels, and a rabble, which they brought to increase their muster against the oppression of the Fomhoire.

54. After they reached the shore of Toirinis they make booths and huts about the borders of the bay. Then they resolve on the counsel to send Alma Onetooth to Conainn, to ask a respite in the matter of the tax to the end of three years. Alma went and reached the fortress of Conainn. When he heard his speech, Conainn was enraged with the martial prince, so that he got no good of his journey. Here turns to his people and tells them the words of the chief. Downcast were they at hearing them, and they induce Alma to go back again, to ask respite of one year of Conainn, to show him their poverty and need, to bear witness to their inability to produce there the heavy tax of that year, and that it should come to him in its fulness in the end of that time. They said to him further, unless he should obtain the remission he was asking, to proclaim battle against Conainn; for they well-nigh preferred to fall together in one place, men, women, boys, and girls, than to be under the great distress in which they were any longer.

55. Alma goes forward to Conainn and tells him the words of the Children of Neimhedh in his presence. "They will get the grace," said Conainn, "on condition that they neither separate nor scatter from one another till the end of that year, so that I and the Fomhoire get them in one place, for their destruction, unless they pay the tax in its fullness at the end of the grace."

56. Alma returns to his brethren and tells them his news. They then accept that, in hopes that they should send messengers to their brethren and their original stock to Greece, to ask the help of an army from them against the Fomhoire. For Relbeo, daughter of the king of Greece, was mother of two of those children of Neimhedh, Ferghus Redside and Alma Onetooth. Smol, son of Esmol, was king of Greece at that time.

57. When the messengers from his brethren reached him, he caused the nobles of Greece to come and assemble together in common, so that he brought together an immense host of the choice of warriors, of druids and druidesses, of wolves and venomous animals throughout the coasts. He sends them before to the Children of Neimhedh, and himself joins them afterwards with the full muster of the Greeks. The progress of that warrior-voyage is not related till they took harbour at Conainn's Tower.

58. Welcoming were the Children of Neimhedh to them; and this was agreed by them after their arrival, to declare war on Conainn unless he yielded them their freedom. They send messengers to him about this. Conainn is enraged with them after hearing their speech, so that he agreed to give battle. The messengers went back to their people. Conainn sends for More, son of Dele, the other prince of the Fomhoire, to him. Notwithstanding, he thought it inglorious to delay answering the battle at once, for he felt sure that the Children of Neimhedh were not ready to undertake battle with him, on account of the multitude and valour of his host.

59. Then the men of Ireland sent a spy to the castle of Conainn, namely, Relbeo, daughter of the king of Greece, who came in the host of her children. A druidess was she, and she went in the form of the concubine of Conainn to the castle, so that she was in lover's wise with him for a while, through the confusion of his mind. A battle was joined first between their druids, and another between their druidesses, so that it went against the Fomhoire. But in short, every battle which they set for a while after that, against the Fomhoire were they won, so that their people were destroyed to a great extent.

60. A wall strong and hard to pull down is made by the Children of Neimhedh near the castle after that, at the advice of their spy; and they sent the hurtful animals the Greeks had brought to their assistance to the tower after that, so that they breached together every quarter and every side of it before them; so that the attacking party went on their trail through the ways they had made, forward to the castle. The mighty men of the castle endured not to remain within it, because of the strength and venom of the hurtful strange animals mingled with them on that occasion.

61. Conainn with his war-squadrons fled at once, and he thought it ignoble not to attack the hosts face to face. For he considered it easier to give them battle, than to wait in the castle for the wild venomous beasts who came through the walls after they had disintegrated them. The attacking host after that yoke them, both hounds and venomous swine, after its warriors had left the castle. They leave a guard over it afterwards, and proceed to the combat. Each of them takes his battle-duties upon him on this side and that.

62. After they had been thus fighting together for a while, this was in short what happened; Conainn fell by the hand of Ferghus Redside, son of Neimhedh, in fair fight. The Fomhoire had two valiant knightly warriors after that, Giolcas, son of Faebhar, and Orcifanat; and the Fomhoire close around them after losing their leader. They take to raising high their war-like efforts and their deeds of valour, till the Children of Neimhidh remembered their hostility and their cruelty to them up till then. So Semeon, son of Starn, and Giolcas, son of Faebhar, were mated, as well as larbanel and Orcifanat. This was the end of it, that the Fomhoire were beheaded by the hands of those warriors, who happened to be matched against them.

63. The battle at last goes against the tribe of the Fomhoire, and they took to encircling and surrounding them, so that not a fugitive escaped from them. The hosts proceed to the castle after that, so that they took out of it its treasures, its gold, its silver, and all its valuables in general. They put fires at every quarter of it after that, so that not higher was its smoke than its flame. Its women and females, its boys and girls were burnt, so that not a fugitive escaped from it.

64. The Children of Neimhedh share the booty of the castle among the nobles and great men of the Greeks before parting from them, and they were grateful one towards the other. Now the Children of Neimhedh stay in the place of the conflict, after the departure of the Greeks from among them, burying those of their nobles who were slain.

65. Not long were they thus, till they saw a full-great fleet approaching them; three-score ships was its tale, teeming with a choice of warriors, led by More, son of Dele, the other chief of the Fomhoire, coming to help Conainn; so they landed in their presence. The children of Neimhedh go against them to contend the harbour against them, although they were worn out; for this was their resolve, not to suffer the Fomhoire any longer to frequent Ireland.

66. Howbeit, although great was the respite and hatred of More, son of Dele, against the Children of Neimhedh before that, it was far the greatest on that occasion; and he took to inciting the people against them, to revenge this great spite upon them. A hot desperate battle is fought between them on every side. Such was the intensity of the fighting, and the greatness of the mutual hostility, that they did not perceive the gigantic wave of springtide filling up on every side around them, for there was not any heed in their minds but for their battle-feats alone; so that the majority were drowned and annihilated, except the people of one ship of the Fomhoire and one group of thirty men of the Children of Neimhedh. The crew of that ship arrived back and they tell their news to the people, and they were downcast at hearing it.

67. As for the thirty warriors who escaped of the Children of Neimhedh from that destruction, the three chieftains that were over them divided Ireland into three parts between them after that. These are the chieftains: Beothach son of larbanel son of Neimhedh Semeon son of Erglan son of Beoan son of Starn son of Neimhedh, and Briotan son of Fergus Redside son of Neimhedh. The third of Beothach first, from Toirinis to the Boyne; the third of Semeon from the Boyne to Belach Conglais; the third of Briotan from Belach Conglais to Toirinis Ceitne.

68. However they did not long abide by that division, without separating and scattering into other countries over sea; for they stood in fear of the Fomhoire lest what remained of them should wreak their resentment upon them after the battles that were fought between them. Another cause; that themselves were not friendly or heartloving one to the other; and then in addition, they were terrified of the plagues by which troops of their chieftains and of their men had died, before the storming [of the Tower]. So that for these causes they separated one from the other. These are the lands whither they went: Semeon with his nine to the lands of Greece; lobath son of Beothach with his people to the northern islands of Greece—he had gone after the death of his father to Ireland; Briotan and his father Ferghus Redside to Mon Conain in Wales.

69. The names of the thirty champions who escaped from the destruction of the Tower of Conainn— Matach, lartach, Beoan, Bethach, Briotan, Baad, Ibad, Bethach, Bronal, Pal, Gortigern, German, Glasan, Ceran, Gobran, Gotiam, Gam, Dam, Ding, Dial, Semeon, Forthach, Goscen, Griman, Guillec, Taman, Turruc, Glas, Feb, and Feran.

I hope the tale was enjoyable.

I would like to quote Laura's book Comets and the Horns of Moses, where it is pointed out that the Irish myth of Cúchulainn is a probable description of a comet(s), keeping in mind that his name translates as "Culann's Hound". Also keep in mind the use of "wolves and venomous animals" by the Greeks in the above story, which I suspect are mythologies of cometary/plasma activities. Notice the correlation of 'Hound' and 'wolves and venomous animals', which may originate from an aspact, or analogy that we are not aware of. Yet.

From: Knight-Jadczyk, Laura (2013-01-15). Comets and the Horns of Moses (The Secret History of the World) (pp. 164-165). Red Pill Press. Kindle Edition.
This description of Cúchulainn is not what most people read in their edited children’s versions of the myths. This one describes Cúchulainn’s ‘riastradh’ or frenzy, which Baillie calls a “warp-spasm.” The point is that Cúchulainn is being described shaking violently, covered with lumps and bumps, making terrifying sounds, his hair twisted and standing up with “vaporous clouds boiling above his head” and with “a spout of dark blood jetting from his skull”. That pretty much describes a very, very close comet interacting electrically with the atmosphere and magnetic field of the Earth.

Cúchulainn next climbs into his “thunder chariot” that was bristling with all kinds of spikes and bits of metal that are there to rip the enemy to shreds, then the chariot is “speedy as the wind … over the level plain” pulled by two horses with flowing manes. Cúchulainn starts killing people first a hundred at a blow, then two-hundred, then three-hundred, and so on. His chariot wheels sink so deeply into the earth that they tear up boulders, rocks, flagstones, gravel, creating a dyke high enough to be a fortress wall. He mowed more people down, leaving the bodies six deep. He made this “circuit of Ireland” 7 times according to this particular story and “This slaughter … is one of the three uncountable slaughters on the Táin [6] … only the chiefs have been counted. … In this great carnage on Muirtheimne Plain, Cúchulainn slew one hundred and thirty kings. Not one man in three escaped” without some injury.

I would like to examine the following quotes from the story with the Cúchulainn/comet in mind:

60. A wall strong and hard to pull down is made by the Children of Neimhedh near the castle after that, at the advice of their spy; and they sent the hurtful animals the Greeks had brought to their assistance to the tower after that, so that they breached together every quarter and every side of it before them; so that the attacking party went on their trail through the ways they had made, forward to the castle. The mighty men of the castle endured not to remain within it, because of the strength and venom of the hurtful strange animals mingled with them on that occasion.

61. Conainn with his war-squadrons fled at once, and he thought it ignoble not to attack the hosts face to face. For he considered it easier to give them battle, than to wait in the castle for the wild venomous beasts who came through the walls after they had disintegrated them. The attacking host after that yoke them, both hounds and venomous swine, after its warriors had left the castle. They leave a guard over it afterwards, and proceed to the combat. Each of them takes his battle-duties upon him on this side and that.

The text, "for the wild venomous beasts who came through the walls after they had disintegrated them" caught my eye and I remembered this in Session 19 February 2000, which I have 'bolded' to show emphasis, while leaving enough of the transcript here for greater context:


Q: What was the connection between the Hyperboreans, including the Celts of Britain, I believe, and the people of Delos?

A: Northern peoples were responsible for civilising the Meditteranean/Adriatic peoples with the encoded secrets contained within their superior extra-terrestrially based genetic arrangement. Practice of which you speak was multi-trans-generational habit.

Q: Is it the case that some of them communicated with higher density beings via Stonehenge, and that these communications they received...

A: Stonehenge used to resonate with tonal rill, teaching the other wise unteachable with wisdoms entered psychically through crown chakra transceiving system.

[Note: the word "rill" is new to me. Webster defines it as a small stream or a little brook; to flow in or like a rill.]

Q: Was Stonehenge ever complete, with all the stones there? This author suggests that it was never completed because there are missing stones...

A: Of course.

Q: What happened to the stones that are missing? The books suggests that it was never finished because the architect must have died.

A: Nonsense. Multiple shocks registered throught the ages.

Q: Was Stonehenge built in stages as this author suggests? Did it start out as a circular ditch, at the time of the so-called Aubrey holes?

A: No.

Q: Was it built all at once, complete?

A: Yes.

Q: The legend was that the god, Phoebus Apollo, danced at Stonehenge every nineteen years. What does this relate to ?

A: Symbolic. Tides, moon eclipses, that sort of thing. Think of Wiccans entubed on the information superhighway!

Q: I mean, there are stones just plain missing! Who could haul off such big pieces of rock?! . (A) You asked about these missing stones, and the answer was the multiple shocks registered. (L) Right. What about these multiple shocks. What, in particular?

A: Some were earthquakes; mini-cataclysmic in nature. Some were EM generated smashes, when terran forces clashed with outside "forces."

Q: Are you suggesting that some of these rocks were vaporized, as it were, by some sort of particle beam weaponry?

A: EM activity.

Q: What was the purpose of the 56 Aubrey holes?

A: Ground.

Q: Why did they bury ashes of dead bodies in them?

A: That was later... fragmented suspicions.

Q: Was Stonehenge once known as the Cloister of Ambrius?

A: Yes.

Q: Who was Ambrius?

A: Druid tradition/cloak.

Q: What was it a cloak for? Who was Ambrius?

A: Not who. What.

Q: What was Ambrius?

A: They would label as a god. You might say otherwise.

I think a reader that is familiar with the Troy and Atlantis legends will see the similarities with this tale. The spy in the tale was seems to correlate with Helen. The assembling of armies correlates to both Atlantis and Troy. The names "Tor Conainn" and "Toirinis Ceittne" are similar phonetically to Troy. The destruction by a wave and drowning is in the Illiad/Odyssey/Troy/Atlantis dramas.

I have another thread that I am about to tug on but I haven't read it yet. It's a book called The Stonehenge Enigma by Robert John Langdon. The book describes, with geological evidence, that about 10,000 B.C. Britain was flooded due to massive groundwater aquifers overflowing, due to glacial melting. His research leads him to theorize that the area surrounding Stonehenge was a waterway, and the wooden holes found around the site were piers to 'ground' the boats. When I read the above transcript:

Q: What was the purpose of the 56 Aubrey holes?

A: Ground.

after reading Langdon's theory that they were used to tie the boats to, a little light went on and I said "they grounded their boats."
Here is the link to the kindle version of The Stonehenge Enigma by Robert John Langdon in case someone is interested:


I would also like to add that while I was mulling over who was Atlantean and who was Athenian culturally, linguistically, genetically and geographically, my 11 year old asked me at what point were the Americans no longer British? That caused me to ask, if it is the case, at what point were the Athenians no longer Atlantean? Just a perspective.
Here is a hypothetical landscape of the British Isles/peninsula found at:



Also check out Robert John Langdon's site:


I would recommend taking a look at the photo/maps section.
Langdon states in his book:

The River Thames is feed by many rivers including the Kennet and River Avon, both of which would needed to be 10 times larger to feed the Thames the water it needed to create the 'alluvium' our archaeologist found in the Lower Thames. This means the River Avon would go from being 65m high at Amesbury to 97m high. At this height Stonehenge would become a peninsula surrounded by groundwater and the Mesolithic post holes, found in 1966, would have been on the shoreline - for they were used to moor the boats that brought the stones from the Preseli Mountains in Wales - a simple and direct route in the Flooded Mesolithic.

I correct myself, he doesn't actually say that these mooring post are the 'Aubrey holes', but rather 'Mesolithic post holes'.
I just got the print edition of Langdon's book, although I still haven't read it yet (trying to get through with the Caesar stuff first). However, if anyone is interested in reading Prehistoric Britain: The Stonehenge Enigma by Robert John Langdon, I suggest getting the print version, because the Kindle version does not contain all the figures and tables.

Here is a link to the print edition from Amazon UK (can't find it in Amazon US):


Here is the author's blog for those who are interested:



The Living Force
Very interesting Críostóir, very interesting indeed, I was just about to start a post about guess what? Among other topics, Doggerland.

_http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2012/12/doggerland/spinney-text said:
For decades North Sea boatmen have been dragging up traces of a vanished world in their nets. Now archaeologists are asking a timely question: What happens to people as their homeland disappears beneath a rising tide?

When signs of a lost world at the bottom of the North Sea first began to appear, no one wanted to believe them. The evidence started to surface a century and a half ago, when fishermen along the Dutch coast widely adopted a technique called beam trawling. They dragged weighted nets across the seafloor and hoisted them up full of sole, plaice, and other bottom fish. But sometimes an enormous tusk would spill out and clatter onto the deck, or the remains of an aurochs, woolly rhino, or other extinct beast. The fishermen were disturbed by these hints that things were not always as they are. What they could not explain, they threw back into the sea.

Generations later a resourceful amateur paleontologist named Dick Mol persuaded the fishermen to bring him the bones and note the coordinates of where they had found them. In 1985 one captain brought Mol a beautifully preserved human jawbone, complete with worn molars. With his friend, fellow amateur Jan Glimmerveen, Mol had the bone radiocarbon-dated. It turned out to be 9,500 years old, meaning the individual lived during the Mesolithic period, which in northern Europe began at the end of the last ice age some 12,000 years ago and lasted until the advent of farming 6,000 years later.


The story of that vanished land begins with the waning of the ice. Eighteen thousand years ago, the seas around northern Europe were some 400 feet lower than today. Britain was not an island but the uninhabited northwest corner of Europe, and between it and the rest of the continent stretched frozen tundra. As the world warmed and the ice receded, deer, aurochs, and wild boar headed northward and westward. The hunters followed. Coming off the uplands of what is now continental Europe, they found themselves in a vast, low-lying plain.

Archaeologists call that vanished plain Doggerland, after the North Sea sandbank and occasional shipping hazard Dogger Bank. Once thought of as a largely uninhabited land bridge between modern-day continental Europe and Britain—a place on the way to somewhere else—Doggerland is now believed to have been settled by Mesolithic people, probably in large numbers, until they were forced out of it thousands of years later by the relentlessly rising sea. A period of climatic and social upheaval ensued until, by the end of the Mesolithic, Europe had lost a substantial portion of its landmass and looked much as it does today.


Thanks to a team of landscape archaeologists at the University of Birmingham led by Vince Gaffney, we now have a good idea of what this lost country looked like. Based on seismic survey data gathered mostly by oil companies prospecting under the North Sea, Gaffney and his colleagues have digitally reconstructed nearly 18,000 square miles of the submerged landscape—an area larger than the Netherlands.

At the university’s IBM Visual and Spatial Technology Centre, which he heads, Gaffney projects images of this terra incognita onto huge, full-color screens. Just off the map, the Rhine and the Thames met and flowed south into the Channel River. Gaffney sweeps a hand across other river systems, comparably large, that we have no names for. In the climate of the day—perhaps a couple of degrees warmer than today—the contours on his screen translate into gently rolling hills, wooded valleys, lush marshes, and lagoons. “It was a paradise for hunter-gatherers,” he says.


In addition to the human jawbone, Glimmerveen has accumulated more than a hundred other artifacts—animal bones showing signs of butchery and tools made from bone and antler, among them an ax decorated with a zigzag pattern. Because he has the coordinates of these finds, and because objects on the seabed tend not to move far from where erosion liberates them, he can be confident that many come from a specific area of the southern North Sea that the Dutch call De Stekels (the Spines), characterized by steep seabed ridges. “The site or sites must have been close to a river system,” he says. “Maybe they lived on river dunes.”

Another way to understand the Doggerlanders is to excavate shallow-water or intertidal sites of similar age nearby. In the 1970s and 1980s a site called Tybrind Vig, a few hundred yards off the coast of a Danish island in the Baltic Sea, yielded evidence of a surprisingly advanced late Mesolithic fishing culture, including finely decorated canoe paddles and several long, thin canoes, one of them over 30 feet long. More recently, Harald Lübke, of the Centre for Baltic and Scandinavian Archaeology in Schleswig, Germany, and his colleagues have excavated a series of underwater settlements in Wismar Bay, on the German Baltic coast, dating between 8,800 and 5,500 years ago. The sites vividly document the people’s shift in diet from freshwater fish to marine species, as the sea rise transformed their land over centuries from inland lakes surrounded by forests, to reedy marshes, to fjords, and eventually to the open bay there now.

A similar metamorphosis took place at Goldcliff on the Severn estuary in Wales, where archaeologist Martin Bell from the University of Reading and his team have been excavating for 21 years. In the Mesolithic, a narrow, incised valley initially contained the River Severn. As the sea rose, the river spilled over the valley’s sides and spread out—perhaps within as little as a century—creating the outlines of the modern estuary. At some point the estuary would have been dotted with islands.


Finds of much larger concentrations of artifacts suggest that Mesolithic people, like later North American hunter-gatherers, came together for annual social events—possibly in the early autumn, when the seals came in and the salmon were running.


There would have been huge population shifts,” says Clive Waddington of Derbyshire-based Archaeological Research Services Ltd. “People who were living out in what is now the North Sea would have been displaced very quickly.” Some headed for Britain. At Howick in Northumberland, on the cliffs that run along Britain’s northeast coast and would therefore have been the first hills they saw, his team has found the remains of a dwelling that had been rebuilt three times in a span of 150 years. Among the earliest evidence of a settled lifestyle in Britain, the hut dates from around 7900 B.C.


Migration, territoriality, conflict: stressful ways of adapting to new circumstances, but adaptations nonetheless. There came a time, however, when the sea exhausted the Doggerlanders’ capacity for survival. Some 8,200 years ago, after millennia of incrementally rising seas, a massive release of meltwater from a giant glacial lake in North America, called Lake Agassiz, caused sea levels to jump by more than two feet. By slowing the circulation of warm water in the North Atlantic, this influx of frigid water triggered a sudden plunge in temperature, causing Doggerland’s coasts—if any remained—to be battered by frigid winds. If that were not enough, around the same time, a landslide on the seafloor off the coast of Norway, called the Storegga slide, triggered a tsunami that flooded the coastlines of northern Europe.

Was the Storegga tsunami the coup de grâce, or had Doggerland already disappeared beneath the sea? Scientists can’t yet be sure. But they do know that sea-level rise slowed down after that. Then, around 6,000 years ago, a new people from the south arrived on the thickly forested shores of the British Isles. They came in boats, with sheep, cattle, and cereals. Today the living descendants of these early Neolithic farmers, equipped with vastly more sophisticated technology than their Mesolithic counterparts, once again look to a future contending with a rising sea.

Another resource for the topic of Doggerland specifically is "Europe's lost world: the rediscovery of Doggerland by Vincent Gaffney, Simon Fitch & David Smith.

Another pic:



The Living Force
Freeman's book on Caesar recommended by Laura Re: Was Julius Caesar the real Jesus Christ? Gives some relevant data at time of Caesar's conquests in Gual around 60BC. I am curious as to the real reasons why the Helvetti mass migrated south.- No small undertaking for 250,000 people. Reasons given by Freeman are their growing population unable to grow enough food and the Helvetti were tired of constant battles with the Germans (presumably these were over fertile growing regions too), - 100,000 settled in Gaul (p116). The Gaulish tribes are also mentioned considering mass emigration too, "threatening massive instability (p133). One thing that I picked up in a Discovery Channel Rome Documentary was the reason for this migration was 'climate change'. The narrator just threw that in without much further elaboration but it does seem to make sense that at that time climatic changes were wreaking havoc across the whole region.


The Living Force
Here is a detailed account of Caesar's Conquest of the Helvetii according to mainstream science: _http://www.allempires.com/article/index.php?q=conquest_helvetii

There's no mention of climate change, only of (local) overcrowding and various political intrigues on all sides.

The same goes for various Wiki entrances:



The Living Force
Palinurus said:
Here is a detailed account of Caesar's Conquest of the Helvetii according to mainstream science: _http://www.allempires.com/article/index.php?q=conquest_helvetii

There's no mention of climate change, only of (local) overcrowding and various political intrigues on all sides.

The same goes for various Wiki entrances:


Thanks Palinurus. As we know it is difficult to really know the truth of these matters after such a long period of time and the limited sources of information available. It just struck me as maybe an indication of how difficult growing food may have become in that region for the whole tribe to migrate and for no one to remain behind.


The Living Force
Pob said:
One thing that I picked up in a Discovery Channel Rome Documentary was the reason for this migration was 'climate change'. The narrator just threw that in without much further elaboration but it does seem to make sense that at that time climatic changes were wreaking havoc across the whole region.

The earth changes that have taken place in the very recent past, and are acknowledged by mainstream science, give very much food for thought as to the fate of numerous other cities and nations of old, that may have suffered greater cataclysms. For example here is a reconstruction of Alexandria, that clearly shows how much of it now lies beneath the waves.


The reconstruction was done by Franck Goddio.


The Living Force
I'm re-igniting this old thread because of the following.

Guided tour through the exhibition 'Doggerland' at the Rijksmuseum van Oudheden, Leiden​

Video 14:10 min. - Dutch spoken with English subtitles

Curator Luc Amkreutz guides you through the exhibition ‘Doggerland – Lost World in the North Sea' at the Rijksmuseum van Oudheden (Leiden, the Netherlands). He takes you on a trip through time of a million years and shows you the highlights of this exhibition.

The Doggerland exhibition presents a lost prehistoric world in the North Sea: Doggerland. You will learn about the prehistoric inhabitants of this special region, and how they survived in a landscape and climate that was constantly changing.

Related article in the Guardian (Daniel Boffey - Sun 1 Aug 2021 09.45 BST - Last modified on Mon 2 Aug):

Doggerland: Lost ‘Atlantis’ of the North Sea gives up its ancient secrets

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