Historical Events Database - History

Voyageur

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This is not really an event marker, yet may offer some background for thought.

Had a look finally at the book on the writing of Theophrastus of Eresus, 'Winds and the Weather Signs' - this was brought up in the "Was Gurdjieff a Stoic?" thread here. The book is on Scrib and had quickly reviewed it there without downloading - http://www.scribd.com/doc/69107363/Theophrastus-on-Winds-and-Weather-Signs-1894#logout

The authors of this translation make a number of remarks, remarks based on things such as the differences in charts/names/directions of other observers and writers. You can clearly see who after this writing utilized the same charts without correction - They discussed Homer and his four winds; their names and their directions, Hesiod had three winds, while Theophrastus adds more, and the terms of the anomalies between observers is slightly, or altogether different - there seems to have been many talks during those times with many known Greeks in attendance - and coping down the same or altered information through the ages - which again comes up in the names/terms used.

The writings section called 'On Winds' is the more comprehensive, with the authors saying that on weather signs it almost seems that Theophrastus was taking notes in a class, so it's incomplete. There are instances where sentences are not finished, lost words from the original copy.

Was looking for references to comets, and other things, And as far a I can tell, Theophrastus only makes one mention of comets in relation to winds. He makes one interesting comment on the hills of Ida and ancient history there (see what he is getting at in the quote below). He discuses the import of weather predictions with both the sun and moon influence, yet adds in many lessor (of import) observations of animal and plants - some are obvious and some are interesting ones, too.


Winds and the Weather Signs


On Winds


13

If, then, it is true (as some and particularly the dwellers in Crete say) that the winters are more severe, and more snow falls than formally-(as proof of which they allege that formally the hills were inhabited and produced both corn and fruit, the land having been planted and cultivated for that purpose; that there are in fact on the hills of the Ida range and on others, plateaus of considerable extent of which now-a-days they cultivate not one, because they are unproductive,; which formally, as was said they not only cultivated them, but also dwelt upon them so that the Island had a large population; and at the time showers occurred, but much snow and storm did not)-if, I repeat, this is true which they allege, it follows that the monsoon also has greater duration [now than formally].

I though this alone was an interesting as he acknowledges that people knew (passed down as verbal memories) of much different weather and conditions in the area, however, not exactly when that was or even proof.

On comets:

Comets generally indicate winds. If there are many they indicate drought also.

On shooting stars:

When many stars shoot from one quarter, it shows that there will be winds from that quarter.

Various mixed examples - there are a great many of these:

If the scarlet-oak be full of berries, there will be very many storms

Mercury, when seen in winter, indicates cold; in summer, heat.
 

Laura

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Voyageur

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Came across this paper (pdf abstract): https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1010/1010.0801.pdf

Journal for Astronomical History & Heritage

Comets in Australian Aboriginal Astronomy
Duane W. Hamacher and Ray P. Norris
Department of Indigenous Studies, Macquarie University, NSW, 2109, Australia

Sorry, it's one of these pdf's that is not easily copied for quotes, so I'll have to leave it at that (17 pages). It does give acounts of what the various tribes saw and what they thought about them - essentially, they were filled with fear and terror at what they would bring to them; not unlike other peoples around the world. Some of the description are interesting (and there are some good plate depictions). Each tribe had different names and descriptors for them; “star with trails ”called Kallowa Anggnal Kude and one is said to have caused a great flood, yet this is speculated as being a comet that hit the Indian Ocean (NW) of Western Australia, and is depicted on 'Comet Rock' near Kalumburu.
 

mkrnhr

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A little off topic here but the stories from Australian tribes are fascinating although difficult to date.
Here is a paper on the stories about sea level elevations: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00049182.2015.1077539 where they kept tradition about specific events from thousands of years (between 11120 BC and 5300 BC according to the text).

Secondly, storytelling among contemporary Aboriginal people can involve the deliberate tracking of teaching responsibilities. For example, a man teaches the stories of his country to his children. His son has his knowledge of those stories judged by his sister's children—for certain kin are explicitly tasked with ensuring that those stories are learned and recounted properly—and people take those responsibilities seriously. Of course it is important to be cautious about using aspects of contemporary Aboriginal narrative culture and assuming that they have relevance at deep time depths. Yet this kind of system, often labelled in Aboriginal English as the ‘owner-manager' relationship, requiring a story to be discussed explicitly across three generations of a patriline, constitutes a cross-generational mechanism which may be particularly successful at maximising precision in replication of a story across successive generations.

If the stories about rainbow serpents shaping mountains have been transmitted with same accuracies, these traditions bear witness to some spectacular cataclysmic events in the near past.
 

Vulcan59

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FWIW a paper published in October 2015 by Mike Baille and Jonny McAneney - Source.
Why we shouldn’t ignore the mid-24th century BC when discussing the 2200-2000 BC climate anomaly

Abstract

Much evidence exists for the major climate anomaly c2200-2000 BC. In this paper, we demonstrate that precisely dated Irish bog oaks record this climatic event, which appears to begin abruptly in 2206 BC and last until around 1900 BC. However, it might be unwise to ignore the precisely dated, abrupt environmental downturn that occurs some 150 years earlier. Irish and English oak tree rings draw attention to a notable decade-long growth downturn spanning 2354 BC to 2345 BC with hints of inundation. Interest in this apparently localized inundation led to the discovery that traditions from around the world specify dated stories within 10 years of 2350 BC. These stories involve the Chinese emperor Yao (traditional date 2357 BC), who presided over a series of catastrophes, including floods, in 2346 BC; Archbishop Ussher who used the dates 2349-2348 BC for the biblical Flood; and the ‘birth’ of three Mayan deities, GI, GII and GIII in the year 2360 BC.

Why, one might ask, should people around the northern hemisphere have generated stories that appear to hark back to a two decade window between 2360 BC and 2340 BC? Furthermore, a smoothed growth response for North European trees suggests the existence of a 37 year cycle of reduced growth, hinting that the events around 2350 BC and 2200-2000 BC may be related. One possible scenario to account for these various observations is that something happened in the sky around this time with memorable consequences for those on the ground; a scenario highly compatible with controversial evidence for an anomalous dust deposition event observed at Tell Leilan in Syria. Overall, this unusual accumulation of evidence, including similarities in stories from widely separated areas, suggests that the scenario be treated seriously as a basis for further research.
 

Voyageur

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In this tread, "Warning of several decades of crushing cold temperatures and global famine" from 2009, this is the first and possibly the only mention of a U.S. Navy Nuclear Physicist and Engineer, James A. Marusek. A little looking, which might be useful here or not, is a paper he wrote called 'A Chronological Listing of Early Weather Events' - it's on the Anthony Watts site https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/weather1.pdf and is a good 580 pages long. Marusek states that although he has data from near 1800 BC, he did not include it (due to difference in calendars etc.) and instead focused on the year 6 AD forward.

In scanning this paper, there are some very interesting individual dates, so perhaps this would be useful for cross referencing, at least from 6 AD.

snip said:
1254 A.D.

In England, the frost was severe between the 1st of January to the 14th of March. In England, there was a severe cold winter until the Feast of Saint Gregory in March. There was so great a murrain and death of sheep, that in many places above half had died. The winds came from the north for about three months continuous. They did great harm to the flowers and fruits. On 1 July, there fell such a storm of hail and rain as had not been known in England. The force of the rain and hailstones broke tiles covering the houses, and the boughs of the trees. This storm was incessant downpour for an hour. In England and France, there was a great plague on horses called “the evil of the tongue”.
 

Eboard10

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Took me a while to get this done but I was finally able to create a user-friendly excel file (attached) that makes it easier to look at historical data of ice core samples and tree ring records. As an analyst and a keen reader of historical research, I would get very frustrated when trying to analyse a chart since I had to manually adjust it every time I wanted to look at different periods or compare it with another set. The file size is relatively high (5MB) but I did my best to optimise it.

To the left of the chart, you can select between the following:
  • Type of Record (Ice Core/Tree Ring)
  • Location by Region (Greenland/Antarctica for Ice Cores and Europe/Asia for Tree Rings)
  • Data Set (the fdifferent compounds for Ice Cores and location by country for Tree Rings)
  • Timespan (start year and end year - use minus sign for BC years where available)
  • Chart Type (Bar/Line chart - recommend using Line chart for Tree Ring and Bar chart for Ice Core)
Both charts contain the same datasets, making it easier to compare between records.

Most records go back to the 1st century AD with a few ice core samples going back to 500 BC and one of the Sweden tree ring records as far back as 5400 BC. One thing to note, the ice core sets with a (D), for detailed, contain multiple data points per year so the chart will only be able to cover about 100 years worth of data at a time. For the others, you should be able to see the whole time range.

Also, the ice core data uses the revised timescale that Sigl et al (2015) determined by looking at anomalous spikes in 775 and 994 CE, following the initial studies published by Baillie who identified a 7 year discrepancy between ice core and tree ring records in the first millennium CE. I have referenced the authors in the 'Reference' tab where you can also find the definitions of the abbreviations used and locations of ice core samples. I would also not modify the other tabs (Raw Data and the Chat Data tabs) unless you want to copy the data itself.

When I have some time, I will try make a couple of posts on some of the signals observed in the data.

Btw, feel free to provide any feedback on improvements that could be made or questions you might have. I haven't tested it on the older versions of excel but it should in theory work fine.


TvFTJY3.png
 

Attachments

  • Historical Records Dataset.xlsx
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thorbiorn

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Eboard10 said:
[...]

When I have some time, I will try make a couple of posts on some of the signals observed in the data.

Btw, feel free to provide any feedback on improvements that could be made or questions you might have. I haven't tested it on the older versions of excel but it should in theory work fine.

TvFTJY3.png
Thank you Eboard, that is a good job. I tried to adjust the time span and found that if the timespan is reduced it is easier to read. I was trying to find out if there was anything that could be related to the migration from Jutland in Denmark of the Cimbri around 120-112 B.C. but could not find anything. About the reasons for the move there is:

_http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/KingListsEurope/BarbarianTeutones.htm said:
A large-scale incursion of the sea into Jutland around the period between 120-114 BC is known as the Cimbrian Flood. It permanently altered the shape of the coastline and drastically affected the way people live in the region. It was probably this event (which is ascribed by some scholars to 307-306 BC) which affected the Germanic Teutones (Teutons) in the centre of the peninsula and their northern neighbours, the Cimbri, enough to force them to migrate southwards in large numbers.
The idea of a catastrophe was negated even in Roman times, but in refuting the oppostition indications were left behind.
Strabo VII 2, 1-2: For since this phenomenon occurs twice every day, it is of course improbable that the Cimbri did not so much as once perceive that the reflux was natural and harmless, and that it occurred, not in their country alone, but in every country that was on the ocean. Neither is Cleitarchus right; for he says that the horsemen, on seeing the onset of the sea, rode away, and cut off by the water. Now we know, in the first place, that the invasion of the tides does not rush on with such speed as that, but that the sea advances imperceptibly; and secondly, that what takes place daily and is audible to all who are about to draw near it, even before they behold it, would not have been likely to prompt in them such terror that they would take to flight, as if it had occurred unexpectedly. Poseidonius is right in censuring the historians for these assertions. ... (Tr. H. L. Jones)
But there are other sources that indicate what may have happened:

_http://www.dandebat.dk/eng-dk-historie10.htm said:
However, it appears that there really occurred an unusual climatic event precisely at that time. By analyzing layers of turf in the bogs can be shown that while the lower, and thus older layer is dark, firm and hard and very chemically converted, there is - over a sudden and sharply defined boundary - a loose almost unkonverted mass of light brown peat, popularly called "dog meat". It consists almost entirely of peat, which must have plenty of moisture to grow. In other areas representing the same time, the bogs were covered with a layer of sand, gravel and clay ("Denmark: Introduction - Prehistory" - 1981 - Royal Danish Ministry of Foreign Affairs).

It sounds a lot like a flood or other disaster with torrential rains that may have motivated large parts of the Iron Age people to take to the south.

Some researchers have pointed to the problems of a growing population and depleted soils as the actual triggering causes of the exodus. Others suggest cattle diseases.
There does not have to be a single cause.

In the last quote, there is a reference to layers of the peat being covered by soil and changes in the layers, but I can't find the orginal source. It is possible that it was tsunami, which certainly can travel faster than horses and such would not necessarily leave traces in the icecore or in the tree rings, unless it was causes by something serious.

From Jutland, there was another major migration a few hundred years later, not by the Cimbri, the Ambrones and the Teutones: _https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbri but by the people that replaced them, the Jutes _http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/KingListsEurope/ScandinaviaJutes.htm along with the Angles _http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/KingListsEurope/ScandinaviaAngeln.htm apparently from around 440 A.D. and onwards although the Saxons [_http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/KingListsEurope/GermanySaxons.htm#Early%20Dukes%20of%20Saxony] had been on the move before that.
 

Eboard10

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Glad to know that you have been using the file. Was planning on making a number of follow-up posts about it but never got around to doing it. I wasn't aware of floods hitting the Jutland coast during that time so thanks for sharing these articles as I learned something new. I think the problem here is that you are trying to reconcile historical events with chronological dating based on geological records.

We know from the writings of the ancient Romans, primarily through Strabo, that following a supposed large-scale flooding of Jutland known as the Cymbrian Flood, the Cimbri descended into Europe during the period 120-101 AD, just before Julius Caesar's birth in 100 AD, and scored a number of victories against the Romans before suffering a severe loss at the Battle of Vercellae in 101 AD at the hands of Gaius Marius.

The problem is that, as has been already discussed in this thread and in some of the Cs sessions, historical dating during the first millennium is possibly off by a few centuries, with years having been added at different times rather than in one block. This makes it a lot harder to reconcile these historical accounts with the chronology determined by tree-ring widths and ice-core records.


Laura said:
Session Date: July 12th 2014

[...]

(Perceval) In terms of our timeline, from the fall of Rome back to Caesar's death... from the cosmic disaster, those 500 years or whatever it is...

A: There were years added so often that it will take some hard work to sort it out!

Q: (L) Am I right in my idea that we can date the segments of the timeline by Halley's Comet? Is Halley's Comet regular enough back into those times that it can be relied on?

A: Yes

Q: (L) So, when they have Halley's Comet coming at these vastly expanded periods, then those are the periods where years have been added?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) And in some cases they're added, and in some cases they're subtracted. It's very strange. Like they can add 10, and then subtract 5. Overall there's a definite, I think that... I think that enough has been added that we're off by 200 or...

(Pierre) Maybe you can ask this question. Caesar was born roughly 2,114 years ago according to our official calendars. In reality, how many years ago was Caesar born?

A: 1635. {Difference of 479 years}

If we are to take this number at face value, that would put Caesar's birth at around 379 AD in the chronology and we would need to look at the 2 decades prior to this date for any signals in the records that could be reconciled to a flooding on the Danish coast and a subsequent mass migration of the local population.

To give an example, one of the major events that historians and scientists have used to anchor the historical timeline to the geological timescale has been the eruption of the Vesuvius. Yet, as shown by both Baillie and Sigl, there is no evidence of a major volcanic eruption having occurred in 79 AD. This makes it all the harder when trying to link historical events to these signals. I'll try make a (long-due) post later to resume the issue behind the dating of the Vesuvius eruption.
 

Eboard10

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Bridging Timescales: Anchoring Points and the Vesuvius Dilemma

One of the main issues related to chronological dating lies in the differences seen between ice-core records and tree-ring widths. Mike Billie has done extensive work in trying to bridge the gap between these timescales which is markedly visible in the first millennium AD. He published a paper together with McAneney where he convincingly showed that the ice-core dating was approximately 7 years too old compared to tree-ring records during that period.

One of the major “pain points” linked to this issue is the dating of the Vesuvius eruption to 79 AD. In Volcanoes, ice-cores and tree-rings: one-story or two?, Baillie explains how an acid layer had been identified and was dated to 80 AD according to the, now erroneous, Dye-3 layer counting used by Clausen et al. (1997) on the basis of Hammer (1984). Clausen identified major ice acidities in the years 50 BC, 515 AD and 529 AD. He also found another layer in between these signals which fell around 80 AD and was therefore linked to the historical dating of the Vesuvius eruption and used as an anchoring point for the timescale:

Baillie said:
It is important because in Clausen et al. (1997), in the same Dye-3 date list we find an acid layer at AD 80. This means that this apparent ‘Vesuvius’ acid was fixed at AD 80 purely on the basis of the Dye-3 layer counting way back in 1984.

However, no such signals were seen in tree rings. Tree-ring chronologies tend to be more accurate than ice-core records, where the timescale has to be estimated based on the depth of the ice-core sample and to specific acid layers that can be “anchored” to known historical events or other verified markers, making this dating mechanism much less reliable.

In fact, frost rings are visible at 43 BC, 522 AD and 536 AD respectively, a clear difference of 7 years compared to the Dye-3 layer counting method. The relative interval between the tree-ring records matches the same interval seen in the ice-core signals, which means that the acid layer that was attributed to the Vesuvius eruption in 79 AD would also have to be moved forward by the same number of years. Moreover, while there was a claim that tephra from the Vesuvius had been found, no evidence has ever been shown of that being the case as pointed out by Baillie and later by Sigl et al (2015):

Timing and climate forcing of volcanic eruptions for the past 2,500 years

[…]

In NS1-2011 we did not attribute acid layers to the historical eruptions Vesuvius 79 and Hekla 1104, due to a lack of corroborative tephra at these depths in this and a previous study63. Possible Vesuvian tephra was reported from the Greenland Ice Sheet Project (GRIP) ice core at 429.3 m depth64, but in view of the new annual- layer dating results (Extended Data Fig. 3), we concluded that this layer dates to 87/88 CE. Furthermore, volcanic sulfate deposition values for the corresponding event show a strong spatial gradient over Greenland with highest values in north- west Greenland16 and lowest in central and south Greenland65, favouring the attribution of a volcanic source from the high latitudes. Documentary sources (Supplementary Data 2) also suggest that the main vector of ash transport following the Vesuvius 79 CE eruption was towards the eastern Mediterranean66.

Sigl has been able to measure a more accurate timescale for the first millennium AD thanks to new records of atmospheric loading measured from a number of different ice-cores and using distinctive age markers arising from major bursts of radiation that stroke Earth in 775 and 994 AD which act as reliable time markers. This new timescale confirms Baillie’s work regarding the inaccurate layer-counting previously used, making the ice-core records up to that point some 7 years too old during the first millennium.

Thanks to the latest advancements in the fields of ice-core dating, there is no evidence of a major eruption occurring in 79 AD, and the layer dated to 87/88 CE favours a higher latitude eruption. We have to therefore question the validity of the historical dating of the Vesuvius eruption to 79 AD.


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stellar

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I watched a documentary on YT a few days ago titled "Skeletons in the Cupboard; Under the Carpet" which was about the true history of New Zealand natives and their origin and hidden and destroyed history. It completely negates the school taught '800 years they came on boats from so and so and that's all there is to it'. It's a 2 part doco narrated by author Gabi Plumm whom I'd never heard of but have since found that her blog, website and FB no longer exist according to google, no surprise. Her views in the documentary are clearly controversial enough to be blocked.
Anyhow there are some books that are mentioned during the series that I wouldn't mind getting a hold of and particularly one titled '1421' which is a written record of the Chinese explorers back in the day describing a cometary bombardment over the area of NZ and Australia. Not so long ago really. Well worth a look and I'll see if the books are as useful.
 

Endura

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I just read Emmett Scott ‘s « A Guide to the Phantom Dark Age ».
I quote a sentence of the foreword :

« The astonishing thing is that not a single solar eclipse reported by the ancient authors can be confirmed by modern retrocalculations ! One or two come reasonably near, within half a decade or so, but the vast majority show no correlation whatsoever between the ancient report and the modern calculation. »

A table of 30 sun and moon eclipses from 309 BC to 590 AD is given in pages 159 and 160, checked by H.-E. Korth (_http://www.jahr1000wen.de/index.html) :
https://imgur.com/pz2THGd
https://imgur.com/OBL0JbF

What’s stunning is that with a time shift around 300 years we can find an eclipse that fits.
15 eclipses have a retrocalculated deviation of 300 years. Among them 12 have a deviation of exactly 300 years minus 46 days !

H.-E. Korth has enhanced his table on his website. Now there are 70 eclipses : _http://www.jahr1000wen.de/jtw/Eklipsen-Hist.html
10 eclipses have a deviation of 354 years minus 13 days.

NASA’s data for sun eclipses is here : _https://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEcat5/SEcatalog.html
 

Voyageur

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Was reviewing the Frenchman, Robert Argod's (1920 - 2000) book, his thinking, whereby he introduces a couple of things dealing with historical earth changes in old writings (at some point - perhaps the beginning of what is known in these very hymns/memories passed down) with mention of Homer's hymns and also of Aeschylus.

Here is the French background for Argod.

It states in his book that Argot was appointed professor (navigation) in Marseilles, with a particular focus on Polynesian migration and shipbuilding. He features many drawing and maps in his book - his book is called Out of Antarctica (the premise being that at some point in time there was shift in our planets axis and also the migration of what we know today of the Polynesian's from down South near Antarctica, as strange as that seems).

Argod cites Aeschylus and the Bible through to Velikovsky and Wolf (Naissance du Monde) in his work.

So, thought to add here what he cites of these two men of old in time - and this might not be the place/thread, yet as said, it is near the beginning of written words that are known and somewhat dated.

Homer

I begin to sing of Pallas Athena, the glorious goddess, bright-eyed, inventive, unbending of heart, pure virgin, saviour of cities, courageous, Tritogeneia. Wise Zeus himself bare her from his awful head, arrayed in warlike arms of flashing gold, and awe seized all the gods as they gazed. But Athena sprang quickly from the immortal head and stood before Zeus who holds the aegis, shaking a sharp spear: great Olympus began to reel horribly at the might of the bright-eyed goddess, and earth round about cried fearfully, and the sea was moved and tossed with dark waves, while foam burst forth suddenly: the bright Son of Hyperion stopped his swift-footed horses a long while, until the maiden Pallas Athena had stripped the heavenly armour from her immortal shoulders.
- Hymn 28 to Athena

Argod said:
Homer is clearly alluding to a major upheaval, with the seas being hurled against the land, as well as the sun being halted in its normal course.
The Odyssey also narrates this event that was so powerful that “vast Olybpus was shaken by it.” Homer situates a major event of this kind at the time of the Trojan War, around the 13th century BC.
Dazzling flames make “the lovely waters” of the river start to “bubble and boil […] as does the fat of a carefully reared pig […] The Xanthus refused to flow any more […] suspended its course,” laid low by the “the fire’s violence.”
There is no doubt that, in Hesiod as in Homer, a cataclysmic even of this kind occurred very suddenly, even if it seemed to last an eternity to those who lived through it.
The actions starts very abruptly and violently with “this day,” and everything ends just as suddenly with the words “Then, the combat waned.”
In Odyssey, it is Hephaistos, the god of fire, who puts an end to the conflagration. “He extinguished the fire that the gods had caused to flame up.” The surge of the Xanthus was tamed. “The rivers calmed down” for Hera restrained them.
To date this cataclysm, we need to know that time was measured in lunar months, as in Egypt.

[…] tell of the long-winged Moon. […] bright Selene having bathed her lovely body in the waters of Ocean, and donned her far-gleaming raiment, and yoked her strong-necked, shining team, drives on her long-maned horses at full speed, at eventime in the mid-month: then her great orbit is full and then her beams shine brightest as she increases. So she is a sure token and a sign to mortal men.
- Hymn to Selene in Homeric Hymns and Homerica, op.cit.

Aeschylus

The order of the sky, apparently immutable for centuries, was suddenly transformed. The changes in the sky allowed several historical epochs to be distinguished, under the successive reigns of Ouranos and Chronos, and finally Zeus.
Aeschylus thought that the thirds epoch, in which we still live, would soon be driven away by a new sky. The order, he says, “which rules at present, is one which I will soon see being ignominiously driven away too.”

Argod said:
“Therefore let the lightning’s fork curl be cast upon my head and let the sky be convulsed with thunder and wrack of savage winds; let the hurricane shake the earth from its rooted base, and let the waves of the sea mingle with their savage surge the course of the stars in heaven […] the earth rocks, the echoing thunder-peal from the depths rolls roaring past me; the fiery wreathed lightning-flashes flare forth, and whirlwinds toss the swirling dust; the blast of all the winds leap forth and set in hostile array their embattled strife; the sky is confounded with the deep. Behold, this stormy turmoil advances against me visible, sent by Zeus to frighten me."
- Aeschylus, Prometheus Bound in Aeschylus, (trans. H. Weir Smyth, HUP. 1926, line 1040-19.

Argod said:
Aeschylus’s choice of words is astonishing. A simple earthquake makes the whole earth rock and vibrate. But during a major event of the kind apparently being described here, the earth is “shaken from its rooted base,” uprooted. Could this be an ancient way of describing the brutal displacement of tectonic plates? Confusion overcomes the orbits of the stars, the sky is different. But it must be the earth itself, rather, that starts to move, amid the din of the “echoing thunder-peal” emerging from its depths.

Seems it could be difficult to say exactly in trying to understand the terms/words they would use back then to describe, let's say, an earthquake ("shaken from its rooted base") or a volcano - or it meant more? The Hymn to Selene seems rather clear in depicting a comet or swarm, or so it seems.

Hymn 28 to Athena by Homer, other than what is commonly written of Athena/Zeus etc., can provide a powerful cosmic battle scene "shaking a sharp spear" followed by "and earth round about cried fearfully" and finally "the bright Son of Hyperion stopped his swift-footed horses a long while, until the maiden Pallas Athena had stripped the heavenly armour from her immortal shoulders."

Of one Argod's maps (Pg. 188) he provides four different relative positions of the pole - Y - North Pole at Yukon from 1500 to 1250 BC., N - North Pole in Norway from 1250 to 1200 BC., H - North Pole in Hudson Bay from 1200 to 700 BC., and South Pole today. This he shows and describes in proceeding pages under the title 'The glaciations of the Quaternary era.' He shows a map (Pg. 299 Africa, 1500 - 1250 BC.) whereby the equator is marked a good 20 + degrees North of its present position, so that 17 degree N would be through the upper Mediterranean at that time. Conversely, 17 degrees S latitude would be through Africa to Yemen, south India through to Mexico. His next map is (Pg, 302 Africa, 1250 to 1200 BC.) showing the equator, roughly speaking, 20 degrees South of present - so 17 degrees S runes through Northern Australia and South South America and 17 degrees N is more current to today.

Note: 17 degrees or so comes up in past discussions with the C's as turbulent crustal areas on either side of the equator.

It also seems that other people have discussed variations along these lines, yet this was Argod's thinking.

Argod also brings up some things Darwin says (9th January 1834 to Lyell) such as "...Certainly, no fact in the long history of the world is so startling as the wide and repeated extermination of its inhabitants," which is downplayed in later works (certainly by others too) to remove the suggestion of rapid Earth changes.

Argod tries to date things, giving his navigation background, which includes sightings off stars. I've no idea if he is even half correct in his thinking yet appreciated some of his findings.
 

Martina

Jedi Master
First of all I want to apologise because I didn't read the whole thread, because it's too big( I will, don't worry) so it could be that I'm repeating something already written. I was reading this article today on Sott Enigmas of 3000 to 300 BC -- Sott.net so I wanted to explain why we have extra centuries in our history. Like C's said the Caesar was born in late 4th century. People lived on Apennine peninsula before Roman empire was found. But Roman empire is not an Early Iron Age construct. In Early Iron Age we have different burial rites, customs, that would rather belong to Etruscian era. Very famous culture in Europe was Hallstatt and it somehow doesn't make sense that Rome existed at a same time. As we know at the end of every era there is some kind of disaster, earthquake, plague, famine, weather changes... and than a new era begins. Hallstatt ends around 300BC and than we have Late Iron Age. This is most logical time for a new culture to start. Romans calculated time as they did, they didn't trick us, most likely it was Franks because they won in the end and wanted to show themselves grander as they were. One of important things to have in mind is that history we learn and remember is political.
When I return from dentist I will share with you some of ideas what influenced Christianity, and why we have overlaps in e.g. arrival of Huns and Hungarians, the one event 2 times, or the same people William the Conqueror from the battle of Hastings 1066 and William the Silent in throne since 1544.
 
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