Help with feelings of indifference

I know this is long and I hope I'm not adding noise to the forum but I would really appreciate any help you all may be able to offer.

When I first began to learn how our world truly operates via reading the material available from the Cassiopaea, QFG, and SOTT sites, my initial reaction was one of shock but also of happiness. Feeling shocked isn’t surprising as my perspective of the world was more or less turned upside down with this newly found knowledge. My feeling of happiness probably stemmed from the fact that I had found something that helped me make sense of our depressing world in which we live. In other words, it gave me a sense of closure to my desperate attempts to understand the paradox between what our reality could be and what it is actually.

However as time went on and as I delved deeper into the material, especially the works of Gurdjieff, everything I once found important became less and less so. At one point I realized that everything I once considered important for progressing in the world meant nothing at all. I had graduated with honors from the university I was attending, had become a student of medicine and was well on my way to becoming a doctor (something I had aspired to be since high school). In short, I was on a path that I thought would be an optimal way for me to best be of service to others and also be financially secure.

As time went on I read The Wave, The Cassiopaea Experiment, and Adventures with Cassiopaea in its entirety in addition to some of the works by Gurdjieff and Ouspensky and began to question my path. I repeatedly had the feeling that becoming a Doctor was not how I could best be of service to others. I had (and have) the conviction that time was running short and that the time required to understand medicine would interfere with the time required to understand The Work. I felt The Work to be very important and had the thought that in its understanding I would find within myself what it was/is I could do to best be of service to others and actually be able to finally do something.

Throughout the year in medical school I became more and more internally conflicted. I read SOTT and its forum virtually everyday and tried my best to put into practice what I have learned from my readings about The Work. From my readings of maerial provided by SotT I became more knowledgeable about the corrupt intimate relationship between pharmaceutical companies and our health care system. I eventually decided to withdraw from the program to determine a different path.

The more I read about The Work and the more I tried to apply this knowledge in a practical way I really began to realize how selfish the behavior of others are actually.
I began to help all who ask and it may sound silly but I did so without judgment. After some time of implementing this concept it seemed I was becoming a sort of an attractor to those in need. People I have not spoken to in ages would call and ask for help, strangers would ask for food or money and I gave all I could and helped the best I knew how (without suspicion/judgment). Maybe it sounds naïve on my part but at one point I had zero dollars in the bank because I had given my very last dollar to a friend. I felt that maybe she needed it more than I and who was I to judge? I did all of this without hesitation and/or expectation.

One of my motivations was to understand what Ra meant when Ra said, “'The best way of service to others is the constant attempt to seek to share the love of the Creator as it is known to the inner self. This involves self knowledge and the ability to open the self to the other-self without hesitation. This involves, shall we say, radiating that which is the essence or the heart of the mind/body/ spirit complex……the best way for each seeker in third density to be of service to others is unique to that mind/body/spirit complex. This means that the mind/body/ spirit complex must then seek within itself the intelligence of its own discernment as to the way it may best serve other-selves. This will be different for each.”, and also what the Cassiopaeans meant when they said, “Life is religion. Life experiences reflect how one interacts with God. Those who are asleep are those of little faith in terms of their interaction with the creation. Some people think that the world exists for them to overcome or ignore or shut out. For those individuals, the worlds will cease. They will become exactly what they give to life. They will become merely a dream in the 'past.' People who pay strict attention to objective reality right and left, become the reality of the 'Future.'”

Since I had zero dollars in the bank it wasn’t long before I needed money for food and drinks etc…As the need for food arose a friend would call and invite me over for dinner. If the need for money came it seemed without fail that I would find a check laying around from a friend and/or a bank that I had forgotten to cash or a friend would happen to be around and would happen to pay for whatever was needed. It seemed in my attempts to understand the concept of service to others any potential problems seemed to disappear at the last second though I didn’t know how this would ever come about.

It may sound silly, but it was at this point that I began to feel what I thought was Love for the universe. Everyday was an exciting adventure! Serving others in this way was exciting! It was a great way to learn how my actions might actually be interacting with reality! I finally felt like I was doing something in the sense that my actions were consistently coinciding with experiencing the unexpected in a positive way. I was giving to live and living to give and asking for nothing and giving to all who asked.

It was at this point that my feelings started to take an unexpected turn. I felt so much love for all those around me that I started to feel deeply saddened for virtually everyone. I wanted so much for them to experience this feeling of selfless love, the feeling of the universe loving you in return. Sadly, nobody would ask and since nobody would ask a question in such a way that I would be able to share with them the material on this site I couldn’t tell them! Though I felt connected to a higher form of reality and in that sense was not alone, I felt utterly alone. I felt both joy and deep sadness simultaneously. I found myself consistently thinking about all of those people that are living in ignorance of this higher reality. I would cry almost uncontrollably while driving. In social situations I had to fight back tears and would eventually excuse myself to the bathroom to wipe away my tears.

Even though I decided to withdraw from medical school, I waited until after the year was finished to do so. It was during the latter part of the second semester that my feelings started to take a turn for the worse. My feelings of Joy with sadness turned to pity for myself because I wanted so much for there to be someone physical in my life with whom I could share these feelings. I felt I may have been interacting in some way with 4th and possibly 6th density because of subtle coincidences, unexpected last minute events that caused problems to melt away, dreams that coincided with future events, and the way strangers seemed pulled towards me. All of this was so subtle and non-physical. I had these feelings of Love for a part of the universe that I couldn’t physically touch. I had been asking for nothing and giving to all who asked and though I seemed to be given things in return as the need arose none of this could change this feeling of loneliness.

It was during this time that I started to become more selfish and consistently asked, as if in prayer, to meet my other half. I’m a little embarrassed to say so but I tried as hard as possible to phrase the question such that it wasn’t a command but an actual question. And then after months of asking I finally met a girl that I felt could possibly be the answer. We started to date and it seemed as though someone had laid out a coincidental rug for us to walk on. Her name was Laura and since I had felt this Love for the non-physical her name resonated with me. She represented the air that I once couldn’t touch in physical form. I suppose I was naïve because I interpreted the multitude of coincidences as hinting to me that I was (we were) on the right path.

I know it may be naïve but I felt the creation had given a part of itself to me. So I wanted nothing more than to express my Love to her as I had expressed it for both the physical and non-physical parts of creation. In short, I tried my best to give everything while respecting her freewill in the same way I felt creation had respected mine.

Unfortunately, it was not long before I realized that the result of all my giving and helping was being lied to, taken advantage of, and total disregard of my own freewill. For some reason I had the thought that if I continued with this expression of Love maybe her conscience would cause her to want to change for the better but despite all my efforts it seemed to be all in vain.

Though I learned much from my experience with her, I fell into a deep depression. I felt somewhat betrayed by the creation I had once felt so much love for. I then realized that I had been neglecting the presence of the higher 4D STS reality.

After thinking back on everything I have begun to think that maybe all of these experiences were the result of some type of 4D STS manipulation. Maybe I had been duped into feeling Love for the higher STS side of reality thinking that it had been STO (though it was probably both). [Note: As I typed the previous sentence my ear began to ring]

Currently, where I once felt Love for creation when I experienced coincidences, receiving unexpected things in return, etc….I feel like I am being tricked and am constantly suspicious to the point of not trusting anyone or anything, not even my own thoughts. Since this feeling of Love is now absent I am starting to feel more and more indifferent to the world. I once was on a path to being a Doctor wanting to help others. Now I am feeling more and more indifferent to the world everyday and over a hundred thousands dollars in debt. Interesting how not paying strict attention to OBJECTIVE reality puts you in the ruts eh?

I was hoping someone here may be able to help put things in perspective for me and help me reverse this feeling of indifference.
 
Hi SeekingtheTruth,

When I was reading the first part of your post, I wanted to shout out: Stop, go back... There are so many red flags in what you wrote, in your thoughts and actions. How could you give to others when you couldn't determine whether they are truly asking and what is asked for? How could you help others when you couldn't properly take care of yourself? How could you love Creation when all you see are love and light, when you are denying half of Creation?

Now that you have found out you've been lied to, you've been tricked, used and abandoned after you've got nothing more to "give," what are you going to do about it? Are you going to lie down quietly, beaten, defeated, or are you going to do something about it? Do you feel angry at all? That anger, if you can properly utilize it, is the fuel you need to get back on your feet.

You weren't betrayed by Creation, you were just given a lesson. The important thing now is whether you have learned it or not.
 
Hi SeekingtheTruth,

This article may help a bit:

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/mouravieff.htm

SeekingtheTruth said:
Her name was Laura and since I had felt this Love for the non-physical her name resonated with me. She represented the air that I once couldn’t touch in physical form. I suppose I was naïve because I interpreted the multitude of coincidences as hinting to me that I was (we were) on the right path.
Be careful of coincidences, They can and often do spring from STS. STO forces would stress knowledge.
 
Bobo08 said:
The important thing now is whether you have learned it or not.
It looks like he has. That's how he came to:

Seekingthetruth said:
this feeling of indifference.
What comes next is a clear-eyed search for meaning, of the depths of things where there seems to be nothing.

At this stage, it looks like a desert at first, second, third glance. You see the idle movement of people, the (subjugated) behavioral automatism. This isn't new to the 21rst century. The new methods only exploit an age old affliction.

Keep looking. There's lots more to see, and if what you describe above is accurate and I'm reading you right, you are in a position removed from the "drama" of everyday life to observe better.

Keep seeking: there are treasures to be found when you don't even know what you are looking for.

[Post edit]: You must, however, be engaged in whatever manner, in this World. Having a clear view for observation does not in any way mean that you must retreat or remove yourself from the "functioning" World. Quite the contrary: you will see more in the "little cracks" of situations while engaged than if you retreat to contemplate. It's a rougher, faster road, but much richer, even if you feel at some stage to be duplicitous. The latter feeling dissipates as you become more real and shed the programmed World "as it is sold".
 
Currently, where I once felt Love for creation when I experienced coincidences, receiving unexpected things in return, etc….I feel like I am being tricked and am constantly suspicious to the point of not trusting anyone or anything, not even my own thoughts. Since this feeling of Love is now absent I am starting to feel more and more indifferent to the world. I once was on a path to being a Doctor wanting to help others. Now I am feeling more and more indifferent to the world everyday and over a hundred thousands dollars in debt. Interesting how not paying strict attention to OBJECTIVE reality puts you in the ruts eh?
You are always on your own (there is help, but it is always up to you to seek and ask for it and to reject that which does not help), and in this here STS world, random things that seem "good" and "bad" happen without there being any "special" meaning to it, or at the very least the meaning you'd imagine at first. They might even (often!) be deliberately misleading.

For sure, you have reason to be careful and suspicious. Seen from the plain, materialistic viewpoint, the world is a bunch of stuff not giving a toss about anyone or anything, simply following along in its chains of reaction, and if you aren't watchful, you might go squish in the process. Seen from the esoteric viewpoint, it is even worse than that, for on top of that very "real" (for we are still here) physical reality, the world with its STS and STO dynamics here dominated by STS, is actively trying to neutralize or get rid of those who stray from the fold, ie. us and those of a similar orientation.

Don't expect a STS world to "love" you back. It won't. But can you love the objective reality, and what would that mean? For one thing, it doesn't mean gushing with happy chemicals, as that does nothing but blind you. It means - or so I think - to simply acknowledge its existence, to know it, to recognize each part for what it is, and to allow all of its parts, STS and STO alike, to be themselves. To do what is natural to you and to act for your own destiny (thus perhaps changing what seems to be "natural") while allowing everything and everyone else to do the same with no blame.

I was hoping someone here may be able to help put things in perspective for me and help me reverse this feeling of indifference.
Given my own indifference to the world at large, perhaps I am not the best to advise on this, but I'll try. First of all, why would one care? Because one finds it meaningful. And as it happens, most of the time that we find something meaningful, we have absolutely no reason to, and are simply fooling ourselves with mechanical reactions and lies. And it seems you had an uncritical relationship of unidirectional "love" (that is, emotion, not understanding) with the world, wherein you felt good, and it is typically so that feeling good is a ludicrously efficient motivator; imagining things to be perfectly spiffy (well, in a sense, all is as it should be, but that does not mean "good" in the sense of being nice) with the world and when engaging in "love" towards it finding yourself feeling very well (something that makes part of the brain insist on doing it again) - could that be the reason you cared? (and while it seems plausible, it might be incorrect - I make no assumption) If so, no wonder you no longer do now that the bubble has popped.

The one thing that still seems truly meaningful would be to keep learning and thus progress, and to strive for something different (because we are not there yet) - STO. In doing so, it follows naturally to help those who truly ask - not demand, beg, plead, or otherwise manipulate or command - for help. It does not follow to "help" those who do not "ask" (for that is not helping, but rather manipulating), nor to accept dubious "help" that you did not ask for. (and if you manipulate/command as you tried to do with the universe, expect "help" rather than help)
 
SeekingtheTruth said:
It was during this time that I started to become more selfish and consistently asked, as if in prayer, to meet my other half.
LOL Be careful what you ask for. Creation gave you a great gift, a liar and a thief to hold up the mirror. I really enjoyed your fine post of the awakening from sleep. I could see the vampires around me for a long time, and while reading Barbara Hort's Unholy Hungers:Encountering the Psychic Vampire in Ourselves and Others I awoke
one night in a cold sweat. I saw without a doubt that I was a vampire too. The search for knowledge while we
struggle produces unexpected insight.

SeekingtheTruth said:
I know it may be naïve but I felt the creation had given a part of itself to me. So I wanted nothing more than to express my Love to her as I had expressed it for both the physical and non-physical parts of creation. In short, I tried my best to give everything while respecting her freewill in the same way I felt creation had respected mine.
Creation gave you a great gift. Maybe this is what Jesus meant when he said to love our enemies. They wake us up.

SeekingtheTruth said:
Unfortunately, it was not long before I realized that the result of all my giving and helping was being lied to, taken advantage of, and total disregard of my own freewill. For some reason I had the thought that if I continued with this expression of Love maybe her conscience would cause her to want to change for the better but despite all my efforts it seemed to be all in vain.
Do you see the contradiction inherent in "expression of Love" and "cause her to change....."? This is a lie to self.
I found so many lies when I started keeping notes, I have very little to say. I felt this silence as indifference. It seems strange as if looking through a window, somedays. I can see a lot of indifference is I DONT KNOW, what to think or say. Gurdjieff says we should do nothing until we understand.

SeekingtheTruth said:
Though I learned much from my experience with her, I fell into a deep depression. I felt somewhat betrayed by the creation I had once felt so much love for. I then realized that I had been neglecting the presence of the higher 4D STS reality.
I too experienced depression at the first revelation that presence of the Fourth Density Predator was
closer than I thought. The Predator had given me its mind as Castanada presents. It was a shock, and the shock propelled me into reading and rereading the WAVE. The depression lasted about six months in my case and disappeared as suddenly as it appeared. I was no longer the same man. The persistent self observation in relationship and the search for knowledge combined with a little suffering began to grow a soul. It takes time, I have a long way to go, but the journey has become its own reward.

Welcome to spiritual WORK, SeekingtheTruth.
 
SeekingtheTruth said:
Currently, where I once felt Love for creation when I experienced coincidences, receiving unexpected things in return, etc….I feel like I am being tricked and am constantly suspicious to the point of not trusting anyone or anything, not even my own thoughts.
That may have been the case, but because you 'liked' this situation you may have stayed in it and lived it, to the point of it becoming detrimental.

SeekingtheTruth said:
Since this feeling of Love is now absent I am starting to feel more and more indifferent to the world. I once was on a path to being a Doctor wanting to help others. Now I am feeling more and more indifferent to the world everyday and over a hundred thousands dollars in debt. Interesting how not paying strict attention to OBJECTIVE reality puts you in the ruts eh?

I was hoping someone here may be able to help put things in perspective for me and help me reverse this feeling of indifference.
People who are depressed might describe this feeling. The world just look so colourless and grey? You have managed to put yourself into a position of povety spiritually, financially and emotionally. Getting out of it is going to be very difficult. Acknowledging that you may feel depressed (which you describe as indifference) may help because not acknowledging obviously makes the process more difficult. Ask yourself what you really want to do? And then, how are you going to achieve it? One things for sure, the 'way out' is not simply going to 'happen' or be handed to you on a plate. You actually have to work at it. If you realise this, you're halfway to changing your life around. Don't expect it to be easy.

Funnily enough, I've begun to associate ringing in the ears as STS interference. Like they're 'tuning in' to see whats going on. I always tell them in pretty forceful terms to 'get lost'. Even if it doesn't work immediately, at least they know I know they're there! Haven't found a way of blocking them yet.
 
SeekingTheTruth:

This is what I see in your post:

You indicate, on the one hand, that you went through a period of "giving" to others "selflessly", during which you had "no expectations" of receiving anything in return. On the other hand, you talk about all of the "gifts" that would magically materialize in your life, with the obvious implication that they were "rewards" for all your selflessness. Clearly, you believed (consciously or unconsciously) that there was some "cause and effect" relationship at work between yourself and the universe, that if you "gave" selflessly, the universe, in turn, would "give" to you. So, contrary to having "no expectations", you really believed that there was a tacit give-and-take arrangement in place, and as long as there was good flow going both ways, everything was cool. Then you indicate that you got to the point where you felt that you had given so much to others that you "deserved" having a significant-other in your life to relieve your loneliness -- to the point that you began to negotiate with the universe to raise your earnings (so to speak). Clearly, you felt the negotiation had been successful, because when you met "Laura" you automatically assumed that she was the "reward" that you had requested.

You go on to say that once you received the gift of Laura, you "wanted nothing more than to express my Love to her", in the same manner that you believed you had already been "loving" the universe and others in your life -- selflessly, asking and expecting nothing in return. Except that you obviously DID expect something in return! Because once you realized that "the result of all my giving and helping" was going to net you a big fat ZERO on the "give and take" ledger, you realized that Laura wasn't playing by the rules, and this threw you into a depression. Except you were more than depressed, you were ANGRY. You realized that you were going to get NOTHING in return for all you invested in Laura.. You felt BETRAYED that the tacit give-and-take agreement that you assumed was in place between you and the universe, and between you and Laura, had not been honoured. This led you to immediately withdraw your services. If your self-less LOVE was going to net you a big fat ZERO, what was the point of participating in this "love" business anymore? What was the point of wasting your LOVE anymore? Henceforth you would no longer LOVE, and would only feel INDIFFERENCE.

OKAY. NOW STOP AND THINK ABOUT IT: Why would you end up feeling so BETRAYED if you genuinely expected nothing in return for your selfless love? Answer: Because you really did have expectations of return, pretty big ones. By adopting the pretense that you did not, you were lying to yourself, lying to the universe, and lying to Laura. Have you really acknowledged those lies yet? I don't think so. With much self-pity, you admit "I was naive", when it fact it would be more accurate to say "I deluded myself and others". Rather than taking responsibility for your OWN beliefs, lies, and actions, you seem determined to see the situation as somehow engineered by forces outside of yourself ("some type of 4D STS manipulation"). At one point you object that there had been "total disregard of my own freewill". I fail to see how your freewill was violated, as you acted quite freely and independently. Clearly you are still seeing yourself as some kind of VICTIM, and not taking responsibility for how you may have victimized others. More importantly, you are blind to the LESSON that the universe set for you to learn.

I suggest that the first step in "reversing this feeling of indifference" is to recognize that you are not so much "indifferent" as ANGRY. Recognize that you are not justified in feeling angry; face up to the fact that what you believed to be true was in fact self-delusion on your part. No one "duped" you. You duped yourself. You convinced yourself that you were capable of loving "selflessly", expecting nothing in return, that you could be completely STO in your behaviour towards others. You deluded yourself that you could become a "saint" without doing the spiritual Work. In actuality, your behaviour was just another form of STS feeding -- in that you really believed that you would be, and SHOULD be, rewarded for your acts of "love". In reality, you are just as STS as the rest of us third-density beings.

Are you prepared to give up your predetermined expectations of the spiritual life, and get on with learning what STO really means? Are you ready to start the difficult and often painful Work of getting to know the workings of your Machine and automatically programmed behaviour? I suspect that there is an old Program that got "transferred" to your "spiritual life" when you left university -- one involving expectations of being recognized as a "good person" and having your needs taken care of, in return for hard work and discipline. Launching yourself into a life of "selfless service" without becoming familiar with such Programs first meant that you were bound to repeat the same patterns within a new context. I think that is why Gurdjieff insists that the Work is to be undertaken within the context of "ordinary life", and not a "drop out" state -- because WHERE you are or WHAT you're doing is not as important as WHO YOU ARE.
 
SeekingTheTruth said:
However as time went on and as I delved deeper into the material, especially the works of Gurdjieff, everything I once found important became less and less so. At one point I realized that everything I once considered important for progressing in the world meant nothing at all. I had graduated with honors from the university I was attending, had become a student of medicine and was well on my way to becoming a doctor (something I had aspired to be since high school). In short, I was on a path that I thought would be an optimal way for me to best be of service to others and also be financially secure.
There is a part in "In Search Of The Miraculous" where Gurdjieff speaks about the importance of being a good householder, of being able to provide for oneself. You seemed to have started out on this path which is the foundation for future Work.

SeekingThe Truth said:
As time went on I read The Wave, The Cassiopaea Experiment, and Adventures with Cassiopaea in its entirety in addition to some of the works by Gurdjieff and Ouspensky and began to question my path. I repeatedly had the feeling that becoming a Doctor was not how I could best be of service to others. I had (and have) the conviction that time was running short and that the time required to understand medicine would interfere with the time required to understand The Work. I felt The Work to be very important and had the thought that in its understanding I would find within myself what it was/is I could do to best be of service to others and actually be able to finally do something.
The degree of discipline needed for medical school, internship, and residency would be resonate with the discipline needed for the Work.

SeekingTheTruth said:
Throughout the year in medical school I became more and more internally conflicted. I read SOTT and its forum virtually everyday and tried my best to put into practice what I have learned from my readings about The Work. From my readings of maerial provided by SotT I became more knowledgeable about the corrupt intimate relationship between pharmaceutical companies and our health care system. I eventually decided to withdraw from the program to determine a different path.
I agree that the relationship between the pharmaceutical companies and health care system is corrupt. However, there are other types of doctors than those who practice allopathic medicine. You can still explore those. In any case, to be completely practical, how are you going to make a living? Now that you've learned your lesson, you need to start from the beginning again and raise yourself to the level of a good householder. One precept that a good householder may follow is to give from the interest, not from the principal.

You seem to have given way too much from your principal, and as a result, the interest dried up. In other words, you gave too much of your energy, and left no reserve for yourself.
 
I would like to thank everyone for their replies. I jut wanted to say that I am in the process of replying. What all of of you have said has given me cause to think a great deal. Thus, it will take some time to complete my thoughts before responding to what you have offered. Thank you.
 
Didn't read the whole post, or the replies for lack of time, but here's what I saw:

ST said:
As time went on I read The Wave, The Cassiopaea Experiment, and Adventures with Cassiopaea in its entirety in addition to some of the works by Gurdjieff and Ouspensky and began to question my path. I repeatedly had the feeling that becoming a Doctor was not how I could best be of service to others. I had (and have) the conviction that time was running short and that the time required to understand medicine would interfere with the time required to understand The Work. I felt The Work to be very important and had the thought that in its understanding I would find within myself what it was/is I could do to best be of service to others and actually be able to finally do something.
G's said that when we find the work we are in the best possible place to learn it. Typically this means you should by no means start altering your life plans simply because you've found this system. You should in fact, realize your inability to DO and simply observe your current trajectory. This will take awhile. As you progress in your ability to observe changes may come naturally, since certain processes cannot function in the light of observation, just as in plants, certain reactions require darkness. G also stresses that before beginning the Work, one must be a Good Obyvatel - which basically means, you need to be a stable, functioning, responsible sleeper.
 
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