Great Big Thank You

[syldan]

I know I can be a pain, and all that!
I want to say thank you for putting up with my endless hair splitting! I have always only understood anything by voicing it out, (that is why I became poet) so as I speak my mind out loud, or by writing it, that is where my thinking takes place, as the language flows through me... That is as close as I can explain it!
I have been going it alone, seriously alone for a decade, nearly to the day now, and I have become a little bit ''sauvage''. That is the way of the hermit.
Thank you for helping a Hermit smooth out the edges...
Through the fire we all will raise again!
dg

 

[Laura]

I know I can be a pain, and all that!
I want to say thank you for putting up with my endless hair splitting!

The problem is, you do not "split hairs," but rather strain at gnats and swallow camels.

[quote author=guimondaniel ] I have always only understood anything by voicing it out, (that is why I became poet) so as I speak my mind out loud, or by writing it, that is where my thinking takes place, as the language flows through me... That is as close as I can explain it! [/quote]

Since it appears that you are only interested in understanding what YOU are saying, perhaps you should talk to yourself instead of producing noise in this forum?

[quote author=guimondaniel ] I have been going it alone, seriously alone for a decade, nearly to the day now, and I have become a little bit ''sauvage''. That is the way of the hermit. [/quote]

That is the way of subjectivity and wishful thinking - very bad habits that are extremely difficult to break.

[quote author=guimondaniel ]
Thank you for helping a Hermit smooth out the edges...
Through the fire we all will raise again!
dg
[/quote]

So far, I don't notice any edges being smoothed out. And, as noted above, it's not rough edges that are the problem, it is a core issue.

 

[syldan]

Thank you for that, Laura!
That really helps!(hurts!)
I guess anybody who dosn't instantly see the absolute truth in this judgement call, has nothing to contribute?

Do camel swallowers, instantly recognize other camel swallowers, I would think so!!!
There is an air of superiority in all of this, that does not suit the quality people involved... Or that has grown out of proportion somehwere down the line?
dg
And there is no need to BAN me, I will certainly refrain from here on in... What would be the point of this exercise, if the only posts accepted are those from people who simply kneel in front of the leader?
When in Amerika act like the 'mercans, : Yes mam, I'M you YES MAN!!!
Thankx but no thanks...

 

[Laura]

Thank you for that, Laura!
That really helps!(hurts!)

It was intended to shock you in the hopes that you might wake up momentarily.

[quote author=guimondaniel]
I guess anybody who dosn't instantly see the absolute truth in this judgement call, has nothing to contribute? [/quote]

If you didn't see some truth in that, after mentally reviewing your posting activity, then obviously you are on an entirely different wave-length.

[quote author=guimondaniel ]
Do camel swallowers, instantly recognize other camel swallowers, I would think so!!!
[/quote]

I'm sure they do. But for the rest of us, it takes years of being victimized by camel swallowers and gnat strainers to learn the lingo.

[quote author=guimondaniel ]
There is an air of superiority in all of this, that does not suit the quality people involved... Or that has grown out of proportion somehwere down the line? [/quote]

That is your perception because you seem to know little to nothing about our work and seem to not have taken the time or trouble to get "up to speed" before jumping in with a thud.

Let me ask you, if there was a sign on a building that said: "Chess Club meets Every Tuesday for Intermediate Games" would you go and expect to be welcomed if you did not know how to play chess and, instead, demanded that everyone play checkers with you?

Same thing.

[quote author=guimondaniel]
And there is no need to BAN me, I will certainly refrain from here on in... What would be the point of this exercise, if the only posts accepted are those from people who simply kneel in front of the leader?
When in Amerika act like the 'mercans, : Yes mam, I'M you YES MAN!!!
Thankx but no thanks...
[/quote]

Up until you wrote this, you were still categorized as just someone on a "different frequency." The last remarks have put you in a different category altogether. As Gurdjieff wrote:

"It often happens that, having stopped before some barrier, usually the smallest and the most simple, people turn against the work, against the teacher, and against other members of the group, and accuse them of the very thing that is becoming revealed to them in themselves.

"Sometimes they repent later and blame themselves, then they again blame others, then they repent once more, and so on. But there is nothing that shows up a man better than his attitude towards the work and the teacher after he has left it.

"Sometimes such tests are arranged intentionally. A man is placed in such a position that he is obliged to leave and he is fully justified in having a grievance either against the teacher or against some other person. And then he is watched to see how he will behave. A decent man will behave decently even if he thinks that he has been treated unjustly or wrongly. But many people in such circumstances show a side of their nature which otherwise they would never show. And at times it is a necessary means for exposing a man's nature. So long as you are good to a man he is good to you. But what will he be like if you scratch him a little?

"But this is not the chief thing; the chief thing is his own personal attitude, his own valuation of the ideas which he receives or has received, and his keeping or losing this valuation. A man may think for a long time and quite sincerely that he wants to work and even make great efforts, and then he may throw up everything and even definitely go against the work; justify himself, invent various fabrications, deliberately ascribe a wrong meaning to what he has heard, and so on."

"What happens to them for this?" asked one of the audience.

"Nothing—what could happen to them?" said G. "They are their own punishment. And what punishment could be worse?

 

[Al Today]

I am bothered about something and need to ask what y'all think.
One question I am now asking is when (how) can one discern if their instincts are true? Seeing people stomping out here, standing on the proverbial soap-box, and start preaching sometimes really bugs me. The moderators are an exceptional bunch of people and are quite adept at keeping the "bullies", (for lack of words), at bay. I must let them know they are outstanding and professional (even if they do DO this for free). I often say that I was prompted to comment, or something to that effect where I just can't hold my tongue, BUT I have a real problem with being wrong, appearing arrogant when actually ignorant, and be just another bully. Especially when I have so much respect for the people here and sometimes feel "less" than able to be here, hold my own so to speak. I do not wanna point something out to someone and be wrong and therefor probably offensive. What I trying to say is that I don't mind being shown where I was/am wrong, and I do not wanna be offensive nor abrasive. Instead, I just go out, start a new thread in "What's On Your Mind" for example, and "speak" in generalities and stay safe. I do not know why or what is motivating me to post this, but I guess I could use some feedback to gain some clues to the full range of mixed emotions I'm feeling here.
For example, below is a thread I started instead if possibly offending guimondaniel :/ :/ :/

I'm glad to see new seekers coming in to network to learn and share. I've been around a while, but I feel new also. I've gotta lotta work to do myself. Mostly, I dig up stuff, and throw my thoughts out to the forum to see what others think. If your sincere, you'll probably, eventually, get mad at someone. I did, and probably will again. Sacred cows can be painful when discovered. But don't fret, these are great people who DO care. But, I gotta say something. This happens sometimes at work, when I'm in a meeting and have a question, someone usually says "That's a good idea. Why don't you go find out and report back". Please don't get me wrong, everyone askes questions, and there is sooo dang much to read and think about. Nobody can do this alone But think about this, the benefits from self discovery is much greater and deeper felt than someone just giving an answer.


And that glow font/thingy is cool...

 

[christx11]

Thank you for that, Laura!
That really helps!(hurts!)
I guess anybody who dosn't instantly see the absolute truth in this judgement call, has nothing to contribute?

Can you not see your triggers of self-importance and superiority? Your posts fly back and forth between indignation on the one hand and thank you, thank you on the other. And not just this post, but all of them.

Examine just this statement by you above -

"I guess anybody who dosn't instantly see the absolute truth in this judgement call, has nothing to contribute?"

You are projecting from your own self-centeredness what Laura's intent was. You are assuming that this is precisely what she is saying - Laura is judging me useless and I have nothing to contribute. How dare her. Who does she think she is that she thinks she is better than me? Well she can just go to blankety blank, harumph!!!

Assumption, self-centeredness, not willing to learn a thing. Can you not look at yourself? Is it not possible that what Laura is saying is true? If you were able to respond responsibly, if you were able to reason reasonably, you might hold an observation of another as possibly true.

A lot of what we do here is learn about ourselves and others and why we act and respond just as you are doing right Now. Other posts you have participated in tried to make this point to you also when you re-acted un-reasonably (unable to reason).

There is tons of reading you can do that helps a person to come around to seeing themselves as the greatest impediment to their own learning. There are psychological materials, esoteric materials, and scientific materials recommended here.

It seems you have some very deep narcissistic wounding going on but you do not have much if any grasp on what that even means and rather than trying to find out, you want to let that part of you that is small rule who you are and what you do. It is your choice.

Do camel swallowers, instantly recognize other camel swallowers, I would think so!!!

More self importance.

Well Laura, "I'm rubber and you're glue, whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you."
Only a dufiss can recognize a dufiss so you must be one too, ha ha!!

How astute guimondaniel. Look at yourself. Do you really want to live like this? Is this the sum total of a lifetime of learning? Naa-na-Naa-na-do! That's it?

There is an air of superiority in all of this, that does not suit the quality people involved... Or that has grown out of proportion somehwere down the line?
dg

You are projecting your world view on what the intent was and it is dead wrong. If you can even slightly imagine that as a possibility, you may be able to see how screwed up you are and every single person on the planet.

Learning a little from the suggested materials you may see that this is a projection of your own superiority being challenged (ego, programs, narcissistic wounding) and it needs to be dislodged. You may even be able to describe it as an entity in residence. Is this who you are?

"There is an air of superiority in all of this"

You think you are detecting in the above. But you aren't. You are projecting your own subjective reality.

And here (below) is a psychological technique employed by manipulators -

"that does not suit the quality people involved..."

Flatter someone in a backhanded manner, projecting how low they are because they are held so highly and performed so lowly in your eyes as judge and decider of all and everything. The offender could gain back that high position in your eyes if they would behave as your subjective projection demands.

If you could accept for a moment how messed up you are, you might turn around and want to try and figure out why it is you behave this way and why it is that you can seemingly find no way out of this endless loop.

And there is no need to BAN me, I will certainly refrain from here on in...

I will just go eat worms. Are you happy now Laura? See what you have done. Pity, pity, pity. I'll just be the bigger person and go play on my own!!

Do you see another psychological manipulation here? Another little mechanical response? That's all part of what we work on here.

What would be the point of this exercise, if the only posts accepted are those from people who simply kneel in front of the leader?

Now you are just being a total and absolute jerk. You are so full of yourself, no one can question the great and honorable OZ that is YOU?

You haven't a clue.

dg deserves to be treated better! dg demands to be treated better! dg knows better than all!

Assumptions, Projection, mechanical indignation.

dg is a slave to the predator and dg hasn't even got a clue as to what that really means. The predator is hungry and needs to be fed.

guimondaniel, if at some later time you can look back on this post and understand what it means when I say this entire post of yours is all Predator, all mechanical reaction, all narcissistic wounding and lashing out, then Maybe, then Maybe, you can start taking the first step.

Learning to see what it is that you are doing right now in this post is one of the major points of all of this. Do you get that? It is the point; to clean out the mechanical reactions, to heal the wounds, to clear out the stupid garbage so that what is possibly real and true can start to act through the channel that is you, instead of this stupid trap we are in.

When in Amerika act like the 'mercans, : Yes mam, I'M you YES MAN!!!
Thankx but no thanks...

You do not belong here. At least not now and maybe never with this kind of behavior. Maybe if you go and read all the psychological materials on narcissism and psychopathy and start to get a clue at what a mess we are in and can start to see those things in yourself, then maybe you can find a way to crawl out of the loop and trap that is your own private little prison. Put the C's transcripts away, get a grasp on the psychological material.

It seems as if you have shown your hand - Some 'Mercans can see, many 'Mercans can't.

 

[spyraal]

All in all, us, the simple members of this forum should not forget that we are only "guests in other's home". We are here only by our own will, and as long as we choose to stay we should respect the hosts as well as the "house" especially when we find that we disagree or feel unconfortable with something. In my opinon, any possible complaints or objections to whatever is said here should take into account this fact. Otherwise they are just noise, or even worst, they constitute an attack. No one is forced to participate in this forum, and most us get a lot more than we actually give in this "relationship". At the end, the only thing here that can fail us is our own expectations.
We should also bear in mind that what we post becomes part of this "house" and for that reason we should take extra care so as not to be "messy" and throw our "dirt" here and there. And this is not -only- a matter of following rules as it is a gesture of thoughtfullness and external considering of a guest towards his hosts. In any other case, as we say in my places, "the door is open and the dogs are lashed down". And i post all these words first as a reminder to myself. Guimondaniel, none of us is really important to the continuity and the goals of this forum apart from the ones who are awake.

 

[Al Today]

All in all, us, the simple members of this forum should not forget that we are only "guests in other's home".

This statement speaks volumes. Manners and external consideration should be a fact of life. :)

 

[Bobo08]

The moderators are an exceptional bunch of people and are quite adept at keeping the "bullies", (for lack of words), at bay. I must let them know they are outstanding and professional (even if they do DO this for free).

I doubt that all of them do this for free.

I do not wanna point something out to someone and be wrong and therefor probably offensive.

I think that if someone cannot stand a sincere comment from another member on this forum, he or she is not meant to be here. And we are better off without them

 

[Buddy]

...I want to say thank you for putting up with my endless hair splitting!

I understand the overall emotional expression in your post, but a comment I heard today which I interpreted as "research REQUIRES application", reminded me of the importance of a balanced approach in getting to the goal of esoteric studies such as what is done here.
What is the point of spending time on this forum engaging in dialog with others (splitting hairs or not), if the efforts don't lead us closer to the 'real I' and increase ability to 'DO' that which can bring about the positive changes that are so desperately needed? Sometimes our questions are answered by asking 'why don't I understand?', 'What is my blind spot?' 'What is my position and why do I think that way?', etc.,etc. For that process, I personally have to take a 'time out' once in awhile.

 

[Laura]

I doubt that all of them do this for free.

What do you mean?

 

[Bobo08]

I doubt that all of them do this for free.

What do you mean?

I thought Al Today said that the "bullies" did it for free. So I meant that some of them are paid to disrupt here. But on re-reading it, I see that he meant the moderators. My apology for having misunderstood

 

[Mike]

I do not know why or what is motivating me to post this, but I guess I could use some feedback to gain some clues to the full range of mixed emotions I'm feeling here.

Maybe you feel "mixed emotions" or uncomfortable because of the mirror given to gd and you saw some part of yourself in it. Perhaps you sympathize with where he's coming from because of the place you started at in the past and don't want to see him go based on your own path and experience.

 

[christx11]

I do not know why or what is motivating me to post this, but I guess I could use some feedback to gain some clues to the full range of mixed emotions I'm feeling here.

Maybe you feel "mixed emotions" or uncomfortable because of the mirror given to gd and you saw some part of yourself in it.  Perhaps you sympathize with where he's coming from because of the place you started at in the past and don't want to see him go based on your own path and experience.

I think from the context of "Al Today"'s post that what you stated above is not the case. If I understand Al Today correctly it sounds more like a good thing going on. Al is at the point where he/she is seeing the nonsense and programs of some of the posts, yet Al does not feel comfortable in pointing that out as Laura has done in the above with gd. Basically Al is asking 'How do you tell if what you think you are discerning is correct or not?'

Well I think if you are at that point where you are starting to even see such things then you've made a step forward in seeing programs, things that perhaps you would never have noticed before making the efforts to figure all this stuff out.

In answering Al, I would say that you don't know for sure. Not trusting your own machine is a start, but at some point when you see it (the programs in others and or self) you start to speak up and yes you can be wrong, there is context and our own messed up perceptions to deal with. That is also where it is imperative to have a Group, to act as a sounding board for your own perceptions, are you seeing properly.

It comes along. I think everyone who is working on themselves deals with this and to some point it is always there.

I don't want to recommend this as a be all end all, but there is also a new feature on the board - 'Report to moderator'.
If you see something that is really wacked out and do not see anyone acting on it, let a Moderator know of your concerns.

Otherwise know that the discernment comes, but the doubt is also a part of it and it will diminish with practice and doing and the building of those new circuits.

[Update] Wanted to mention that Bear's observation is also very likely a part of the scenario - remembering that you were once there also struggling as it were, and seeing someone else flailing about programs firing left and right ....

 

[T.C.]

Perhaps you sympathize with where he's coming from because of the place you started at in the past and don't want to see him go based on your own path and experience.

Well, I know I feel this way.

When I see this kind of thing happen, I want to give input on such automatic, fear and self importance motivated reactions. But then I think "what's the point?" I don't know if that's the right or wrong attitude but you can't make someone see the things that you see. If someone can't get past the first steps of thinking they may be wrong and taking a long, hard look in the mirror to see what they really are, then it's better they move on.

They're obviously not here for the right reasons.

OSIT

T.C.