German kindergartens set up spaces where children can engage in sex play

[Alejo]

I came across this news item tonight and I was left speechless that this is going on.

German kindergartens set up spaces where children can engage in sex play

In the field of sex education, two kindergartens in a German state introduce special rooms where children can "physically satisfy themselves" and explore each other's naked bodies.

Some kindergartens in Germany are considering or have already implemented spaces where children can engage in sexual play, masturbate and explore the naked bodies of other children, Die Welt reports.

Two kindergartens in the German state of North Rhine-Westphalia, in the field of sex education, have already started to create special rooms for children to "discover and physically satisfy themselves." Thus, the management of one of them, located in Kerpen, is convinced that children should be able to "lock themselves in a protected space" to "try out their child sexuality," arguing that "allowing masturbation in kindergartens is of great importance."

Another kindergarten, located in the city of Rheinberg, has rooms where children can play doctor while exploring each other's bodies. It is noted that the children choose one of them whose body they would like to examine. The management states that "it is explained to the children that no objects are inserted into the body orifices (e.g., genitals)."

For its part, the Children's Ministry of North Rhine-Westphalia, asked about this, stated that it has no intention of contacting the two kindergartens, stressing that "the sexual behavior of children cannot be prevented."

At the same time, parents have the right to vote on the practice of sex education in kindergartens and schools. Thus, according to the state's educational principles for the 11,000 kindergartens, "the subject of the body and sexuality must be discussed with the participation of parents" due to different "cultural, religious and family ideas."

Furthermore, although the North Rhine-Westphalia Children's Ministry does not want to do anything about kindergartens that organize such rooms for sexual exploration, it has made it clear that the state youth welfare offices would not allow the introduction of such rooms in the state. In this regard, Die Welt points out that such ideas about sex education may appear in concepts, but not in reality.

This is the Die Welt link: Schule und Kita: Wo Männer Babys gebären und „Mann und Frau“ tabu sind - WELT

I am hoping that a German speaker can possibly deny/correct the above.

With the above, I truly think that the only comment that any sane human being would make is "What the **** is wrong with you?!"

What twisted person decides that children have a sexuality that they need to explore while in their care, away from home, and explore it with each other. Children HAVE NO sexuality! this is clearly some twisted creature setting up a feeding ground for itself.

Am I misunderstanding anything from the article? Kindergarten is for infants and toddlers right?

 

[Mililea]

At least I haven't heard anything about it yet. That's terrible... and just doesn't sound right!
And yes, kindergarden is for toddlers from 3-6 (7), depending on at which age the child goes to school.
Unfortunately, I can't access the first article you linked and the one below can only be read in full with payment.

 

[nicklebleu]

Unfortunately the article is behind a paywall - but I think you are probably spot on … unfortunately.
As you implied - the world has gone mad.

 

[Anamarija]

It seems that this practice is banned, at least so it says in the article from July 6, 2023.

‘Body exploration rooms’ banned at German nurseries

A chain of German kindergartens has been banned from setting up “body exploration rooms” for young children to undress and play games.

The “doctor game”, in which children under the age of six examine or touch each other’s naked body parts, has been formally regulated in a growing number of nurseries around the country over the past decade.
Some German childcare professionals and psychologists argue that if children are taught to play the game within certain boundaries they will have a healthier relationship with their bodies in later life.
However, the phenomenon has prompted a wave of moral outrage in recent weeks after at least two kindergartens were revealed to have created dedicated spaces for pre-schoolers to “explore their physicality”.
First the Queen Maria Catholic nursery in the southwest German village of Tennenbronn told parents it was setting up a “safe room” for children to embark on a “journey to their bodies” under adult supervision, subject to parental consent.

So, if I understood this correctly this happens for decade.

One local newspaper columnist denounced the concept as a “paradise for paedophiles” and other critics said it amounted to sexualising children, before the kindergarten beat a hasty retreat. Then another daycare centre run by the Workers’ Welfare Association in Hanover announced a similar scheme.
In a letter to parents it said the children were naturally playing the doctor game in bathrooms or “bushes” anyway, and it would be more sensible to encourage them to play it with adult guidance and fixed rules.
Such rules include that “boys and girls will only stroke or examine one another as much as they themselves and the other children are comfortable with” and “no child will put any object in another child’s bodily orifices”.
The youth office for the surrounding state of Lower Saxony swiftly prohibited the practice, which it said posed a danger to child welfare. It is reviewing training manuals distributed to daycare centres by ProFamilia, one of Germany’s largest sex education charities.
ProFamilia’s representatives have been promoting the concept since at least as far back as 2013, when two of its counsellors told a national newspaper that small children were already “sexual creatures” and carefully supervised “body exploration games” with clear rules were a healthy part of child development.
The organisation went further in a detailed report published the following year, which was endorsed by theminister for labour and social affairs in the southwest state of Baden-Württemberg.
It set a template for rules, which appear to have been adopted almost word for word by the two nurseries facing criticism now. ProFamilia advised against policing too strictly: “You can’t set the boundaries on the doctor game so narrowly that no child can cross them. Otherwise the effect would be a total restriction of [the child’s] pleasure experience and curious exploration.”

 

[Anamarija]

Here's more about it with a list of rules:

GERMANY: Sex Education Group Recommends Daycares Create “Sexual Games” and Nude “Exploration Rooms”

Germany’s leading professional association on sexuality and partnership, Pro Familia, is under fire after issuing a recommendation that daycares implement “body exploration rooms” and “sexual games” for young children.

The issue first came to light when news outlet BILD revealed that parents were sent an e-mail from an Arbeiterwohlfahrt (AWO) daycare center in the Hanover region which presented a list of ten rules explaining how children in the “body exploration room” would be encouraged to “pet and examine” themselves and other children.

“All children, especially preschoolers, are aware of the places in the facility where nudity and body exploration can take place,” reads the message. “Each child decides for themselves whether and with whom they want to play physical and sexual games. Girls and boys pet and examine each other only as much as is comfortable for themselves and other children.”

Other rules outlined in the communication stipulate that the children must be within the same age group with a gap of no more than two years, and that at no time should a child “stick anything into another child’s body openings.”

One shocked father told BILD, “My daughter is five years old. I don’t want boys groping her. I have another child in another daycare center [where] there is no such thing [as an exploration room].”

Another father responded, “I’m devastated. We were told that this was determined by the Ministry of Education. As parents we were intimidated. What options do you have if you don’t want this?”

The Ministry of Education in Lower Saxony responded to the concerned parents by terminating the program before it was put into effect. A representative told BILD that, at the end of May, “the state youth welfare office reported to the Ministry of Education that the pedagogical concept of the physical exploration rooms in the daycare centers cannot last, and that this puts the well-being of the child at risk.”

However, Dirk von der Osten, Chairman of the Board of the AWO Region in Hannover, disagreed. “Exploring one’s own body is part of child development, during which they also learn to recognize their own limits, to express them clearly and to develop shame,” von der Osten said. “Children also play role-playing games in their group rooms. We do not see any child welfare endangerment in this.”

This is not the first time a policy recommended by Pro Familia has been called into question. In 2013, Deutsche Welle asserted that “Pro Familia is stuck in the pedophilia swamp,” and emphasized how the sexual education organization has repeatedly published the works of pro-pedophile lobbyists.

The Berlin newspaper Tagesspiegel investigated articles published by Pro Familia Magazine and found that pro-pedophile views were represented in works released in the 1980s and 1990s. An article by the psychologist and educator Wolf Vogel, dating back to 1987, for example, reflects “without prejudice” on the causes of pedophile lust.

Pro Familia has also platformed Rüdiger Lautmann, a sociologist and gay rights advocate who has a lengthy history of normalizing pedophilia. Lautmann authored a book titled The Lust for Children: A Portrait of Pedophiles. The book is based on his interviews with 60 men who admitted to sexually abusing young children, primarily boys.

“They really love the children, read their every wish, organize trips, buy toys and are only comfortable around children,” Lautmann says of the 60 pedophiles he interviewed.

 

[Alejo]

So, it has been stopped. There's a reddit thread that discusses it. I wonder if it stopped on July why it pooped at the end of August, probably a delay in reporting.

It's so shocking to think how such a practice can make it as official policy of two locations, I can perhaps sit there and ponder one individual, or a group of individuals having twisted characters, but for them to be able to turn it into official policy of professionals whose job is to keep these kids safe, that is truly shocking. Imagine how many people you have to convince to make it policy, from owners, directors, teachers, care takers... everyone.

Another comment I wanted to add on this:

It is reviewing training manuals distributed to daycare centres by ProFamilia, one of Germany’s largest sex education charities.
ProFamilia’s representatives have been promoting the concept since at least as far back as 2013, when two of its counsellors told a national newspaper that small children were already “sexual creatures” and carefully supervised “body exploration games” with clear rules were a healthy part of child development.

It's a completely pathological statement, and I do not only mean that as a value judgement, it truly is pathological for a human adult to not have that "component" that prevents one from seeing children in any sexualized manner. To imply that children, because they are born with sexual organs are "sexual creatures" which to them means ready for it as an adult is, is very telling, the very word creatures is extremely telling, it's the reduction of the act to mere parts and components, justified pathological drives.

Pedophiles exist, and they're a pathological component of our society, that bit of knowledge is the one that needs to be normalized. It suddenly struck me that this whole woke madness is truly aimed at normalizing pathology, because no one else objects to an adult doing whatever that adult wants in private, but they're sneaking this into the entire mess.

Thanks everyone for digging through the story!

 

[Ben]

So, it has been stopped. There's a reddit thread that discusses it. I wonder if it stopped on July why it pooped at the end of August, probably a delay in reporting.

It's so shocking to think how such a practice can make it as official policy of two locations, I can perhaps sit there and ponder one individual, or a group of individuals having twisted characters, but for them to be able to turn it into official policy of professionals whose job is to keep these kids safe, that is truly shocking. Imagine how many people you have to convince to make it policy, from owners, directors, teachers, care takers... everyone.

Yeah, it's incredible considering how obviously deviant the whole idea is, especially when you consider how often people err towards the over-reactive when it comes to anything suggestive of paedophilia. It's probably kind of a Stanford Prison Experiment (or better still a Milgram experiment) sort of situation. A lesson in how normal people will go along with all kinds of madness in a certain set of circumstances driven by pathological authority figures. If people have knowledge of this, including the courage to act on that knowledge, then there's hope that things can be stopped before the situation gets too far. The problem is that in some ways we're in an experiment that includes almost our whole society, in certain countries anyway.

 

[maiko]

Sad as it is, as a German, I must say it didn't come totally surprising. I can only speak from a German perspective, but I gather from comparisons with other countries, Germany has a very specific history of sex education. Digging into this a little bit after reading this thread I was astonished (it shouldn't have been surprising) how of course sex education is highly political, today more than ever, and every excursion into its history has to be taken with a grain of salt. I thought I give a short summary. The end of the 19th century was influenced by Sigmund Freud's work, and persons like Magnus Hirschfeld, who was a pioneer in trying to decriminalize gay sex. He also was co-organizer of the first international conference for sexual reforms. He was himself gay and is still popular today as a leader in the field of sexual science in his time.

Another reaction to the proclaimed oppressive prudishness of the 19th century was the whole naturist movement around the beginning of the 20th century. It was part of a whole reform movement that also promoted vegetarianism, and wanted to ban tobacco, alcohol, and drugs. Nudism was promoted as a more natural, harmonious way of life as compared to moral norms of the late 19th century. But as with many ideas stemming from that point in time, where we see so many (interesting) ideas, concepts, and belief systems come to light, things get convoluted, and there were also eugenic voices/elements in the naturist movement. Sound familiar already? Of course, these disruptive changes in “lifestyle” found an echo in the arts, and in politics, apparently many followers or members of the nudist movement were politically related to the social democrats or communists. As for the broader public, nudism was tolerated as long as it denied every sexual or hedonistic reference. One famous head personality of the nudist movement was the teacher Adolf Koch, who went as far as to have girls, and boys participate together in naked gym classes in 1923/1924, with the permission of, and in the presence of the parents (so 2023, right?). Fun fact: above mentioned Hirschfeld acted as an expert witness to one of these gym classes. But don’t get fooled, this was still a niche movement, but a very visually heavy one. There were moral backlash and protest.

Even the Nazis kept some elements/health-related aspects of the naturist movement but introduced heredity, racial science, racial hygiene, genealogy, and population policy to the curriculum in biology classes. instead of sex ecucation the youth was learning everything about raising a healthy Aryan family. From Adolf Koch’s perspective, this was seen as a step back into the 19th century. After seemingly moving from one extreme to the other, the years after the war, the fifties were dominated by sexual conservatism and moral conformism (how the wokists must hate that time) until the 1960s entered the stage to set the course for what we are seeing now. For my generation our parents were young adults, partaking, absorbing, or watching what was happening in the wake of that mystical year of 1968. It was also the year that opened the door to making sexual education part of the official curriculum in schools. It would take them some years to agree on what to teach future generations. Interestingly one of the main points of the divide was the question, how far should sexual education go? Are we talking about biological basics or is it part of the school’s educational mission to include the social and ethical implications? One goal, that was often mentioned, was to overcome antiquated ideas and prejudices. That was also the time of famous sex educator German and filmmaker Oswald Kolle and the 1970s saw the introduction of the book “Sexfront”, a book on sexual education specifically addressing unmarried young people. It was very popular in leftist circles. The last edition was published in 1989. The 70s and '80s were also the times that saw the pedophilia debate in West Germany. The new social movements, heirs to the 1968 movements, academia, and several political parties discussed for example exemption from punishment for pedophile acts and an abolition of the sexual criminal law. There was a public outcry against these positions, but some media such as “Die Zeit”, “Neue juristische Wochenschrift”, “Der Spiegel” or “taz” published pro-pedophile pieces uncommented. Among the political parties, were the Green Party, the youth segment of the liberal party and the youth movement of the Left Party, which supported some of the positions discussed in the debate. Some Politicians such as Dagmar Döring (from the liberal party), not only supported pedophile positions, she even published an essay in the 80s in the book “pedophilia today”, she even talked about her own sexual experiences with minors. She had to resign from her position in the German Bundestag in 2013 in the wake of a new pedophilia debate, initiated by a team of researchers at the University of Göttingen, who dug up old articles outing prominent members of the German public – particularly politicians – as having supported pedophilia. And guess who was also actively publishing pro-pedophilia in the 1980s and 90s? German family planning group pro familia, which, by the way, is part of the same international organization as Planned Parenthood from the US.

Fast forward to 2023 we see new agents pushing old ideas. Making the most vulnerable, the children, victims of an overpoliticization of the most intimate aspects of our lives.

I hope that wasn't leading too far from the topic discussed here, but while reading through the material, I thought it might be useful to very briefly summarize the history and malpractices in sexual education in Germany in the 20th century.

 

[Mari]

Thank you very much @maiko for this extensive post!!!

And guess who was also actively publishing pro-pedophilia in the 1980s and 90s? German family planning group pro familia, which, by the way, is part of the same international organization as Planned Parenthood from the US.

Do you have a link to an article/story in German about pro-familia pushing pedophilia? They are still very active in schools and come every year to teach sexual education to 7th graders....

 

[maiko]

@Mari here is one interesting article in German from 2013, it was published in the "Spiegel" at the time. It is similar to the material @Anamarija quoted.

There are a few more current articles in German newspapers behind paywalls, criticizing pro familia on other subjects or referring to the scandals in the 90s, And of course, articles related to the Kindergarten scandal, and as mentioned in the articles linked and quoted by others, theKIndergarten incorporated pro familia material into its concept for the exploration rooms. They still are the "experts" on everything concerning sexual education. Here is an example of what they offer in terms of educational training ( in German). And even if it doesn't shady at first glance it left me with a bad feeling. Sexuality in childhood is a topic that educators, teachers, and so on must be aware of, and there are problems that need to be addressed in that context. But this reads like a gleeful over-sexualization of children, pushing them, with these educational programs, beyond what the children might feel comfortable with. Plus, they are sometimes referring to women as persons with a uterus... It is the same as in the US, leaving these topics to external third parties is dangerous.

 

[Mari]

Thank you soo much @maiko !!!!

Last year I had an extensive talk with the teacher about what exactly will they present to the kids in sexual education classes -pro-familia was also involved in this curriculum. Also, my son told me that there was nothing weird, I talked to him about it.
I´m expecting the same classes next year with my second son, so now I´m better prepared in case something new comes up.

Thank you!

 

[Alejo]

I hope that wasn't leading too far from the topic discussed here, but while reading through the material, I thought it might be useful to very briefly summarize the history and malpractices in sexual education in Germany in the 20th century.

This is actually very interesting, I am not a German and have had only a small interaction with German nationals, but I do know that there's a cliche of German people being very efficient, engineering, methodical and calculating, it strikes me that perhaps it's a very left brain approach to life, I mean this is true in general of all the west, but Germany has always had that fame of sorts.

But it is interesting because, that is the only way one could make the claim that children are sexual creatures, just because they're born with sexual organs, the morality of sex, ideas of love, and creative lovemaking are all lost on someone for whom the sexual act is merely a biological function.

I think it terms of biological drives, not just sex, one would ignore them or attempt to shut them down at one's peril, but it's with the, lets call it, lateralization of the idea that one makes it something greater than the sum of its parts, where morality enter the picture. This cold materialistic and quite frankly evil view of the so called sexuality of children, is pathological even if one were to look at how the mind of these individuals process information.

Another thought that occurred to me, since you mentioned the history of Germany, was that of Luther and lutheranism, which has been discussed in the forum before, so perhaps some of the seeds of what you describe, go even further back? This isn't to say that countries where catholicism was maintained as their religion are doing any better, I mean Spain is another one of those constantly insane situations. What I mean was more like, if at the core of what brought people together in their church, was a dogma that severed the connection with the divine and brought it down to scripture, then generations will follow who will live on a severed state. Does that make sense?

 

[maiko]

Thank you @Alejo, you got me thinking. This label of efficiency and methodical strength is valid, to an extent. Until recently, Germany was indeed a country known for its engineering and innovations. Sadly, this is currently all going down the drain. I mean, you can give it to the leading political parties in Germany, at least they are efficient in destroying an economy.

But back to the point, before we were home to German engineering, Germany was known as “Das Land der Dichter und Denker” (the country of poets and thinkers), a phrase coined in the early 19th century. You know your basic old white man cultural stuff like Goethe, Schopenhauer, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, or the artists of Romanticism in the 18th century like Caspar David Friedrich, Robert Schumann, Franz Schubert… and so many more. Works of art, literature, and music that still resonate today with those who haven’t tuned into leftist brainwashing. Real beauty and an expression of what is the other half of the German soul, the yearning and the curiosity to explore mysticism, and spirituality and to relate them to the world around us or to emerging fields in the sciences.

I found a beautiful quote, that gives a glimpse into how Germans thought about themselves, it is by Wolfgang Menzel, a literary historian from the early 19th century.

„Die Deutschen thun nicht viel, aber sie schreiben desto mehr. Wenn dereinst ein Bürger der kommenden Jahrhunderte auf den gegenwärtigen Zeitpunkt der deutschen Geschichte zurückblickt, so werden ihm mehr Bücher als Menschen vorkommen. […] Er wird sagen, wir haben geschlafen und in Büchern geträumt. […] Das sinnige deutsche Volk liebt es zu denken und zu dichten, und zum Schreiben hat es immer Zeit.“

"The Germans do not do much, but they write all the more. One day, when a citizen of the coming centuries looks back on the present moment in German history, he will see more books than people. [...] He will say that we were asleep and dreaming in books. [...] The sensible German people love to think and to write poetry, and they always have time to write.”

Where are those Germans? That is why I wouldn’t go back to Luther to look at the foundations for what is happening today. (by the way talking about these subjects in German to Germans would make me sound like a total right-wing nationalist, which is a pity, I always loved the 18th and 19th century in Germany during my studies at University.)

Back on track: I am pretty sure if one would start to unravel this fascinating knot that is the German soul / German spirit, one of the strings that form this complex knot would lead us back to Luther, and the rise of Protestantism in Germany, but I think it would only be one string of many more. The 19th and early 20th century are maybe of more consequence to what we see happening today. Groups like the Munich Cosmic Circle (Munich Cosmic Circle - Wikipedia) originated in this time and attracted not only German intellectuals of the time, it was also the time of Rudolf Steiner, the founder of the anthroposophical movement, Homeopathy saw its beginnings in the late 18th century in Germany and German physicists like Werner Heisenberg not only were on the forefront of their scientific field, they also had united their scientific work with an spiritual understanding of the world around them. Looking back, to me this is one of the pivotal moments in (more modern) history where there were so many possibilities on the table. Just to be in parts taken over by the Nazis, and if not discarded by the Nazis afterward totally stomped out by the winning parties of the war. So efficiently that even Germans themselves easily adopted the new technocratic label of efficiency without asking, why don’t we appreciate the other, more spiritual, and creating part of the German soul? There was a cut and a compliance to be cut off these spiritual aspects. Of course, there are remnants today, anthroposophical schools are still around, homeopathy is, too (also under fire in Germany) and wokist voices blame the minds of the 19th and early 20th century for being the intellectual father of national socialism.

Back to the kindergarten scandal and the topic of sexual education in Germany, as with any movement, this must have been attractive to the wrong people early on, hijacking and perverting it. And without any links to spiritual, or moral concepts or ideas, what is left and can be traced back to our time is a totally distorted, harmful mirror of what might have started as a good idea.

Please excuse this lengthy (there is so much more to unravel) excursion, but this one scandal turned into an interesting starting point for me to string together some ideas that were floating in my head.

 

[gottathink]

I have posted in the Gender Pronoun’s and free speech thread but it’s also relevant here because it shows that this formal sexualisation of children is coming from the top. It is not just a social movement but a very organised political programme being pushed as evidence based health education.

The United Nations via the WHO have a set health curriculum which includes Comprehensive Sexuality Education (CSE). Concepts of gender fluidity are formally introduced to children when they start school and as they mature this is expanded upon to include information about how sexual feelings are expressed.

I recognise some of the wording about gender posted in the materials above as coming directly from the WHO CSE guide.

The curriculum seems to contain a lot of good health information but I feel uncomfortable with this uniform prescription being given to children everywhere and it’s creepy to think of adults other than parents educating young children about sexuality. And it sure as heck is open for various pathological interpretations as to how the programme is delivered. For example:

https://cdn.who.int/media/docs/default-source/reproductive-health/sexual-health/international-technical-guidance-on-sexuality-education.pdf?sfvrsn=10113efc_29&download=true

I’m not a parent or teacher so I’m interested in what other people think about this curriculum for the purposes of being able to have rational discussions with people about it.

I started digging into school’s health curriculum when out of the blue my nephew became transgender. He is 21 now and in a very poor way psychologically after five years of female hormones and gender transition therapy he accesssed himself through the New Zealand Healthcare and Education system.

 

[Alejo]

Looking back, to me this is one of the pivotal moments in (more modern) history where there were so many possibilities on the table. Just to be in parts taken over by the Nazis, and if not discarded by the Nazis afterward totally stomped out by the winning parties of the war. So efficiently that even Germans themselves easily adopted the new technocratic label of efficiency without asking, why don’t we appreciate the other, more spiritual, and creating part of the German soul?

This makes sense, and perhaps, speculating of course, it was a defense mechanism to cope with the trauma of what happened to Germany, or what Germans did to other germans and people of Europe, perhaps it was better to adopt a cold materialistic outlook on life in general than admit the darkness of their spirit displayed by their collective deeds. Does that make sense?

I have always found it interesting how, to use fiction as an example, the way Palpatine turned Anakin to the dark side wasn't by conviction alone, or manipulation, he tells him that he will only achieve the power he needs, to chase his obsession once he kills the younglings at the temple, to commit such a dark deed, that his coping mechanism would incarcerate him going forward. And individuals work this way, we all write narratives to explain the choices we made, or didn't make rather, and can even adopt a different paradigm if it suits us, perhaps something similar occurs at the macro social level, maybe that's why Germans were so quick to sacrifice their spirit, because facing it would be too devastating.