Events in Russia

What I don't understand

is how did the murderers think that they would get away with the terror act, in a large city like Moscow !? What I mean how do people tick in their brains... not only to do such beyond horrible actions - but also thinking they would survive it - in freedom ? They must have know at some level, that the mission was one with a dead end. Or is it a psychopathy in which the persons in question, simply don't care ? Or did they know (before they took on the mission) that their lives were already dead ? Something like dead sentenced prisoners ?

I totally agree with aragorn, that the guys where totally unskilled. That was plain visible in the videos.
 
fifty_five said:
Yes, it is an interesting, and contradictory aspect of Russian legalism. There is simultaneously the romantic version of the gentleman's war of the Geneva Convention, and the practical reality. I personally know a spetsnaz sniper from Transnistria who fought for Russia in Chechnya, and skinning enemies alive was the practice. The thing in me, first-world academic bourgeois aroused infinite vomit at the time. But in time, even if the infinite vomit continues, you realize where appearances stop.
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There are psychopaths in every branches, especially special ones.
 
youlik said:
The burned-down concert hall in Crocus is named after the famous singer Muslim Magomayev. During the action, the song "Cranes" was broadcast, dedicated to those who died during World War II, and for some reason they said that it was Magomayev who performed it. That's not so. At the event, the song was performed by Joseph Kobzon. I will give Magomayev's recording of this song.

У «Крокус Сити Холла» стартовала акция памяти «Летят журавли»


Сгоревший концертный зал в Крокусе назван в честь известного певца Муслима Магомаева. Во время акции транслировали песню "Журавли", посвященную погибшим во время Второй Мировой войны и почему то заявили, что исполняет ее именно Магомаев. Это не так. На акции песня была в исполнении Иосифа Кобзона. Я приведу запись Магомаева с этой песней.
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Anyway, the original, written and sang during the war is still the best:

 
XPan said:
is how did the murderers think that they would get away with the terror act, in a large city like Moscow !? What I mean how do people tick in their brains... not only to do such beyond horrible actions - but also thinking they would survive it - in freedom ? They must have know at some level, that the mission was one with a dead end. Or is it a psychopathy in which the persons in question, simply don't care ? Or did they know (before they took on the mission) that their lives were already dead ? Something like dead sentenced prisoners ?
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It is just plain stupidity mixed with naivety because of money.
 
Nević Nenad said:
Anyway, the original, written and sang during the war is still the best:
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I absolutely agree. By the way, in the video that I brought Magomayev before the performance of the song also talks about this.

Абсолютно согласен. Кстати в видео, которое я привел Магомаев перед исполнением песни тоже говорит об этом.
 
XPan said:
Do you really think it is that simple ? (I am asking kindly).
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There is probably wishful thinking and greed involved because of money, stupidity because they thought they would get away, if they did would probably be killed because dead man tell no tales and lack of conscience that is main point to do something like that and religious programming. I work with people daily and stupidity has no limits, especially with that kind of "people".
 
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Corvus said:
It is just plain stupidity mixed with naivety because of money.
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I would say in addition that the skill of the "breeder" is also important here, but of course stupidity and greed are at the core.

Я бы сказал в дополнение, что тут еще важно мастерство "разводящего", но в основе конечно глупость и жадность.
 
Does anyone know if there were any security guards on duty at the Crocus City Hall?

Given awareness Russia had about impending events which were so considerately illuminated by the US (because we know the US really really care about Russia so deeply! ;-D) one would think there would at least be plain clothes security at such a big event. I have not seen any discussion about this and a search gave me no results online. Just curious about this if anyone is aware of standard procedure at an event like this in general, and any potential ramping up security, given the alert issued.

At first I thought if there were security there uniformed or not, they were potentially killed at the outset but surely if there were security, there would be multiple armed individuals located strategically throughout the building. In testimonies I have read I have seen no mention of security officers present, only the immense bravery of individuals who did what they could to overpower the individuals tasked with this suicidal role.

If there was no security, I am curious about why that would be; does not seem logical.

I also wondered if explosives used might have been placed there earlier?
That was some full on destruction - clearly designed to strike at the heart and psyche of Russia.
 
forest_light said:
Does anyone know if there were any security guards on duty at the Crocus City Hall?

Given awareness Russia had about impending events which were so considerately illuminated by the US (because we know the US really really care about Russia so deeply! ;-D) one would think there would at least be plain clothes security at such a big event. I have not seen any discussion about this and a search gave me no results online. Just curious about this if anyone is aware of standard procedure at an event like this in general, and any potential ramping up security, given the alert issued.

At first I thought if there were security there uniformed or not, they were potentially killed at the outset but surely if there were security, there would be multiple armed individuals located strategically throughout the building. In testimonies I have read I have seen no mention of security officers present, only the immense bravery of individuals who did what they could to overpower the individuals tasked with this suicidal role.

If there was no security, I am curious about why that would be; does not seem logical.

I also wondered if explosives used might have been placed there earlier?
That was some full on destruction - clearly designed to strike at the heart and psyche of Russia.
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Yes, of course there were guards there and they even had guns, but... As it always happens in such cases, the weapons were locked in a special room, they carried out the service with batons and tasers. By us have already written that the prosecutor's office checked the actions of the guards and found no formal claims. The guards who got in the way of the terrorists from the entrance to the hall were simply killed, like many others.
They also checked the fire extinguishing system and also found no complaints. Experts say that the system failed to extinguish due to the power of the fire. Simply put, the system is not designed for such deliberate arson.
From what happened in advance, it seems that someone from the guard claims that one of the terrorists inspected the hall a few days before the attack.
I'll try to find the links later.

Да, конечно там присутствовала охрана и у них даже было оружие, но... Как это бывает всегда в таких случаях, оружие было закрыто в специальной комнате, службу они несли с дубинками и электрошокерами. У нас уже написали, что прокуратура проверила действия охраны и не нашла формальных претензий. Охранники, попавшиеся на пути террористов от входа до зала были просто убиты, как и многие другие.
Также проверили систему пожаротушения и тоже не нашли претензий. Специалисты заявляют, что система не справилась с тушением из-за мощности возгорания. Попросту говоря система не рассчитана на такой намеренный поджог.
Из того, что произошло заранее, вроде бы кто то из охраны утверждает, что кто то из террористов осматривал холл за несколько дней до атаки.
Я постараюсь найти ссылки чуть позже.
 
forest_light said:
I also wondered if explosives used might have been placed there earlier?
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On this subject, it seems that it wasn't explosives, at least what they say (from Tass) :

Chief investigator says terrorists used gasoline to set concert venue on fire​

They brought in plastic bottles and set the hall on fire, said Chairman of the Russian Investigative Committee Alexander Bastrykin

MOSCOW, March 25. /TASS/. Terrorists set fire to the Crocus City Hall concert venue using gasoline, Chairman of the Russian Investigative Committee Alexander Bastrykin told a meeting on the situation around Friday's terrorist attack.
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XPan said:
What I don't understand

is how did the murderers think that they would get away with the terror act, in a large city like Moscow !? What I mean how do people tick in their brains... not only to do such beyond horrible actions - but also thinking they would survive it - in freedom ? They must have know at some level, that the mission was one with a dead end. Or is it a psychopathy in which the persons in question, simply don't care ? Or did they know (before they took on the mission) that their lives were already dead ? Something like dead sentenced prisoners ?

I totally agree with aragorn, that the guys where totally unskilled. That was plain visible in the videos.
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Maybe they really thought they will survive, with a lot of money, they will be famous, and they were drugged.
 
youlik said:
Yes, of course there were guards there and they even had guns, but...
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We have an interesting story with weapons. Security companies that have weapons are armed not with military weapons, but with special, somewhat weakened, or traumatic, non-lethal ones. Civilians can only own hunting weapons, these are either smoothbore rifles or carbines that fire bullets, but without the ability to conduct automatic fire. At the same time, civilians carrying their own weapons somewhere should carry them disassembled and, in any case, not loaded in any way. This applies to firearms, traumatic or gas weapons can be carried loaded, but no one has the right to bring weapons to mass events like the same concert in Crocus. No weapons.
Only representatives of special services such as the police, the Russian Guard, the FSB, the FSO, etc. are armed with military weapons.
Such are our laws, and given all this, as I wrote above, it is impossible to defend against such attacks in existing conditions. Laws and regulations need to be changed.
By the way, Daniil Bessonov gave out interesting information here the other day. According to the laws of the DPR, according to which they existed for 8 years, civilians had the right to own combat weapons and not just combat, but also automatic and caliber up to 12.7mm, i.e. an ordinary person could legally have, for example, a Utes machine gun, and this is a very powerful weapon. Now the laws of Russia are coming into force in these territories and people are obliged to hand over all these weapons.

С оружием у нас получается интересная история. Охранные предприятия, которые имеют оружие, вооружены не боевым оружием, а специальным, несколько ослабленным, либо травматическим, не летальным. Гражданские лица могут владеть только охотничьим оружием, это либо гладкоствольные ружья, либо карабины, стреляющие пулями, но без возможности вести автоматический огонь. При этом, гражданские лица, переносящие куда то свое собственное оружие, должны переносить его в разобранном виде и уж во всяком случае никак не заряженным. Это относится к огнестрельному оружию, травматическое или газовое оружие можно носить заряженным, но на массовые мероприятия, как тот же концерт в Крокусе никто не имеет права приносить оружие. Никакое оружие.
Боевым оружием вооружены только представители спецслужб типа полиции, рос гвардии, ФСБ, ФСО и т.д.
Такие вот у нас законы и вот учитывая все это, как я уже выше написал, от подобных атак в существующих условиях защититься нельзя. Надо менять законы и правила.
Кстати, тут на днях интересную информацию выдал Даниил Бессонов. По законам ДНР, по которым они существовали 8 лет, гражданские лица имели право владеть боевым оружием и не просто боевым, но и автоматическим и калибром до 12,7мм, т.е. обычный человек мог законно иметь, например, пулемет Утес, а это очень мощное оружие. Сейчас на этих территориях вступают в силу законы России и все это оружие люди обязаны сдать.
 
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