"Egregores: The Occult Entities That Watch Over Human Destiny" by Mark Stavish

[Laura]

I clicked the link to the translation and there was nothing but a list of things. Can we have the translation pasted in a post?

 

[Maat]

I clicked the link to the translation and there was nothing but a list of things. Can we have the translation pasted in a post?

Strange, here it is then :

• The egregore between Bible, occultism, surrealism and freemasonry
• Philippe Bayle
• In The chain of union 2013/1 (N° 63) , pages 77 to 87

I t is not uncommon to hear in the lodge phrases such as: “We must tend towards the egregore” or “we have achieved the egregore”; as a goal and as a state the “egregore” appears desirable… It commonly designates a particular moment generally marked by a powerful collective emotion or even a state of satisfaction imbued with general serenity, the fraternal union which brings together the members of a lodge, when it is not more flatly a quasi-synonym of “good atmosphere”…


1

2Until the first third of the 20th century , there is no mention of the word egregore in Masonic literature; it appears only recently and remains an exclusively French or French-speaking affair.

3Today the best study on egregores is that of Raymond Devis  [1] . One of the great merits of this text is to retrace in detail the history of the concept and its transmission to Masonry by a chain of authors starting with Eliphas Lévi and ending with Jules Boucher. It is moreover from La Symbolique Masonique by Jules Boucher that we will borrow this first definition as a necessary reminder:

4

“We call egregore an entity, a collective being, resulting from an assembly; any assembly of individuals forms an egregore. There is an egregore for each religion and this egregore is powerful with all the strength of the faithful accumulated over the centuries; Similarly, for the FM, each lodge has its own egregore; each obedience has its own and the meeting of all these egregores forms the great Masonic egregore”.

Why this strange name?​

5Egrégore comes from the Greek égrêgoros, plural égrêgoroi, which simply means watchman, and the verb égrêgorein translates logically to watch, to be awake. But who watches what?

6The term egregoros-watchman would designate in the Greek versions of the Old and New Testament writings of the angels, "those who do not sleep and who guard the throne of his glory" or those " who are always awake in the service of God ".

7The special fortune of this word comes from the book of Enoch, a pseudepigraphic writing of the Old Testament attributed to Enoch, great-grandfather of Noah. Its composition is estimated at the III rdcentury BC. The original Aramaic version was considered lost until parts of it were found at Qumran in 1947 among the Dead Sea Scrolls. It will be translated into Greek, Latin, Slavonic and Ethiopian. Rejected by the Jews and officially removed from the canonical books around 364 during the Council of Laodicea (canon 60), it has since been considered apocryphal by the other Christian Churches. But it is part of the Old Testament canon of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church and it was the Scotsman James Bruce who brought three copies from Ethiopia to Britain in 1773, and to this day the Ethiopian version is the most complete.

8Some passages in Greek were published in 1606, (fragments preserved by George Syncellus in the 9th century ), but it is above all Cedrenus in the 11th century which gives the name of egregores, as a proper name, without translating it into Latin by “vigili” in its Latin version of the Greek text, to the angels who descend on Mount Hermon to unite with the daughters of men whom they found beautiful… But who are these egregores?

9Nothing less than fallen angels, two hundred in number and under the leadership of Azazel or Semiaza depending on the version and who, not content to unite with women who will have children who will become the Giants, teach all kinds of knowledge harmful to humans.

There is no filiation between the biblical legend and Masonry​

10So much for the word and its biblical context, but what about Masonry? In fact, nothing, and the idea of such “Faustian” and “Prome-Thean” sponsorship of the Masonic egregore must be abandoned, which some will no doubt regret, but one can imagine what a Taxil would have extrapolated from such a legendary filiation… If the 19th century is that of industry, of the railway, the century of Darwin and Marx, that of the figure of the inventor and the scientist as demiurge and priest of progress is also that of romanticism, spiritualism, Madame Blavatsky and the occult...

11It is in this context that the egregores reappear and it will be in the works of Eliphas Lévi (1810-1875), whose real name is Alphonse-louis Constant, who has been described as “renovator of occultism” and to which we even attribute the paternity of this neologism.

12It is in a posthumous work, written around 1869-1870, “The Book of Splendours” that he writes: “Now the book of Enoch tells us that there were Egregores, that is to say geniuses who never sleep” .

13

“What in our previous works we have called larvae and vampires, coagulations and unhealthy projections of the astral light, would in reality, according to the book of Enoch, be hybrid and monstrous souls formed from the commerce of the Egregores with the prostitutes of the old world; the souls of the giants exterminated by the deluge, from the morbid exhalations of the earth and the drool of the serpent Python”.



14Then in “Le Grand Arcane”, published in 1898: (…)

15

“The Arabs, poetic conservatives of the Primitive traditions of the East, still believe in these gigantic geniuses. There are whites and blacks, the blacks are evil and are called the Afrites. Mahomet kept these geniuses and made them into angels so big that the wind from their wings sweeps the worlds in space. We confess that we do not like this infinite multitude of intermediary beings who hide God from us and seem to make him useless… We have billions of gods to overcome or bend without ever being able to arrive at freedom and peace. This is why we definitely reject the egregore mythology. Here we breathe deeply and we wipe our foreheads like a man after a painful dream”.



16Further on he ends: “The real eggregores, that is to say the night watchmen, in whom we like to believe, are the stars of the sky with their ever-sparkling eyes… We also like to think that each people has its protective angel or his genius … All this is. possible though doubtful and may serve the hypotheses of astrology or the fictions of the epic…”

17“If it were necessary to admit their existence…”, “possible although doubtful” are formulas which betray a very skeptical magician, but above all nothing which can come close to any collective entity in the sense given by Jules Boucher; and note the rejection of “intermediaries” between God and man, Lévi always wanted to be faithful to the Catholic faith.

A being that evokes the Golem​

18It is to another outstanding personality of occultism, Saint-Yves d'Alveydre (1842-1909) that he will write this in his “Mission of the Jews”:

19

" Once man has impregnated with his will certain elements of the invisible order, when he has conceived, willed, created not only a visible power, but without knowing it a potential, occult, evoked Being, manifesting himself by Institutions, the latter does not die without having lived, and, if it is instinctive and passionate, it lives by destroying. It fights and devours, in the invisible order as well as in the visible, the other collective beings of this earth; he drinks blood, he feeds on the flesh of their limbs (…). Now if it is relatively easy to create or to arouse instinctive powers, destructive dominations, it is almost impossible to erase them from the biology of the earth and from its primitive substance, unless there is a deluge”.



20We have here the idea of a creation “in the invisible” by man of a being, moreover, quite problematic in its behavior which evokes that of the golem, but Saint-Yves does not give it any name.

21It was finally Stanislas de Guaïta (1861-1897), the founder of the Kabbalistic Order of the Rose-Croix, friend of Barrès, Papus (who considered Saint-Yves as his “intellectual master”) and Péladan, who published in “ The Key to Black Magic” (1897) the following passages which will take up the ideas of Saint-Yves d'Alveydre, in a less obscure form, and where the word egregore finally appears in its new meaning:

22

“ It should be enough for us to sketch here what often fortuitous combinations giving rise to collective beings, more or less ephemeral or durable, - kinds of living syntheses, results of the grouping of several individuals, under the required conditions” .
“It is thus that, in the political or social or religious order, millions of men, hierarchically organized, for so many centuries, under the level of an inflexible rule, have been able to create – conscious or not of their work in the invisible – virtual beings, collective entities, in a word, prosperous or harmful Dominations, of an equally incalculable power and duration”. (…)
“The magic chain is a sure way to create collective potentials that nothing can resist”. (…)
“We recall for memory the sovereignty deployed by collective beings , which we have qualified as egregores”.

It was Oswald Wirth who transmitted to Freemasonry the concept​

23Oswald Wirth, (1865-1943) who was a famous mason, author in particular of the "Books of the Apprentice", "of the Companion" and "of the Master", was in his youth the secretary and the disciple of Stanislas de Guaïta and remained his friend until his death. Occultist, creator of a tarot deck and magnetizer, he is the first specifically Masonic link in the chain which transmitted to French Freemasonry the concept of egregore. Thus in “the book of the Master”:

24

“Should we trace back to the Logos of Plato, to his Great Architect or Demiurge, the Light which gradually enlightens the initiated? More modestly we can stop at the one that the Masons call their Master Hiram. But how do we represent this mysterious entity?
“Far from being a character, he is a personification. But from whom? Of initiatory Thought, of this set of ideas which survive, even though no brain is any longer capable of vibrating under their influence. What is precious does not die and subsists as if in a latent state, until the day when the possibilities of manifestation are offered”. (…)
“… The pentacular virtue resides in the idea, the feelings of energy or the state of mind that the image evokes… But what about an invisible pentacle, traced by a lifetime of effort put in the service of a higher ideal? It is no longer a question here of childishness and grimoire, but of the reinforcement of the secret power of the Initiates… ” (…)
“The true Initiate tends to concentrate on himself the diffuse energies of a vast environment; he thus disposes in a very real way, of an unlimited power, coming from the gods, in the initiatory sense of the word. The Mason, who has devoted himself with all his intelligence and with all his heart to the execution of the plan of the Supreme Architect, can accomplish a work far superior to his personal means: he is not alone, for with all the energies stimulated by the same good will unite with him. The Chain of Union is effective for any sincere adept, who, having achieved balance, receives insofar as he gives, benefiting from the current he has been able to establish by transmitting it”.



25Let us note in passing that the Chain of union appears as the rite allowing, in a way, to “connect” to the egregore… Even if Wirth does not use the word, he describes it as current, which is undoubtedly normal for a magnetizer practicing the laying on of hands.

Jules Boucher ensured the dissuasion of the concept in French masonry​

26Symbolist, occultist and Freemason, disciple of Oswald Wirth and continuator of the work of his master, Marius Lepage (1901-1972) was, more or less, for Oswald Wirth what the latter was for Stanislas de Guaita, whose he will also ensure the edition of his unfinished manuscript and completed by Wirth, “The problem of Evil”…

27It was during the year 1935 that the first Masonic article appeared in the magazine “Le symbolisme” in which the word égrégore was associated with the concept of collective entity and it is from this article that Jules Boucher (1902- 1955) for writing his note on the egregore cited above. The successive reissues of “Masonic Symbolism” which was a classic for a long time, it was commonly said “the Butcher”, undoubtedly played a major role in the massive diffusion of the egregore in the “vernacular” vocabulary of French Masonry.

28For the one who was Grand Master of Memphis-Misraïm and who prefaced the first edition (1942) of Jules Boucher's "Manual of Practical Magic", the occultist Robert Ambelain (1907-1997), the egregore is described in his Practical Kabbalah as “A force generated by a powerful spiritual current and then fed at regular intervals, according to a rhythm in harmony with the universal Life of the Cosmos, or to a meeting of entities united by a common character. In the invisible outside the physical perception of man, exist artificial beings, engendered by devotion, enthusiasm, fanaticism, which are called egregores”.

29After the innoculation of such a viral agent, “rationalist” reactions were to follow, but paradoxically the name was kept and this is how Edmond Gloton wrote in his “Masonic Instructions to Companions” published in 1948:

30

“The meeting of masons in their temple, assembled for a common purpose, creates an esprit de corps…The favorable, propitious state which reigns over masonry work is in no way supernatural, it is entirely due to our methods, to our symbolism, to our freely consented discipline, and to the tolerance which we have been taught…”. “We do not appeal, we do not seek the assistance of any extra-human form, we do not invoke any spirit, we do not resort to any act of magic”.



31At this stage it is good to quote the definition given by the “Grand Dictionnaire Encyclopédique” Larousse (1983):

32

EGREGORE: - male name - (in occultism) angels present on Mount Hermon. (Egregores were introduced into occultism by Stanislas de Guaita to personify non-supernatural physical or psychophysical forces into forms of collective beings).



33This definition (which does not cite masonry as the natural environment of egregores) puts its finger on the thorny question of their problematic nature: “physical, psychophysical, and not supernatural…”.

34Indeed, many occultists of the Guaïta-Papus group also wanted to be scientific in spirit and aspired to uncover the occult. Their era is also that of the experiences of exteriorization of sensitivity conducted by Colonel de Rochas in the laboratories of the Ecole Polytechnique.

35For them it is not a question of spiritual entities like angels but rather of “forces”, of “currents” of “energies” certainly hidden but coming under physics more than metaphysics. It can be subtle states of matter, like particles or rays, vibrations. We may be in magic, surely in parapsychology, but we do not rise in the empyrean, and especially not beyond. Nevertheless, accepting the occultist idea of the egregore amounts to concretely considering thought as a kind of “fluid” secreted by the brain. Everything would happen as if it were formed of real substance animated by a movement of its own but which could be directed, for only in this way could it be considered as an acting force outside of the person issuing it.

Guénon saw in the egregore a confusion of the psychic and the spiritual.​

36We readily admit that there is at the very least cause for confusion, or outright rejection.

37And this is what was to motivate the reaction of René Guénon (1886-1952) who published in 1947 in “ Traditional Studies ” an article entitled “ Spiritual and Egregore Influences ”. Guénon saw in the egregore an opportunity to confuse the psychic and the spiritual. He also rejects the word as a " fantasy " of occultism and in passing executes the so-called Latin etymology "ex-gregis", without denying the existence of the collective entities to which he wishes to assign what he considers to be their true place:

38

“We can look at each community as having a subtle force of order constituted in some way by the contributions of all its past and present members, and which, consequently, is all the more considerable and likely to produce effects of all the more intense as the collectivity is older and is made up of a greater number of members (…). We will recall, moreover, in this connection, that the collective, in all that constitutes it, psychically as well as bodily, is nothing other than a simple extension of the individual, and that, consequently, it does not there is absolutely nothing transcendent compared to this one,
“The initiatory attachment should therefore not be conceived as the attachment to an “egregore” or to a collective psychic entity, because this is in any case only a completely accidental aspect, and by which the initiatic organizations no different from exoteric organizations; what essentially constitutes the “chain” is, let us repeat it again, the uninterrupted transmission of the spiritual influence through the successive generations [of initiate]” .



39Analogous conceptions regarding the power of thought are evoked by Alexandra David-Néel (1868-1969) in Initiations lamaïques :

40

“The beings evoked by the doubpapo [the practitioner of the rite] are not just any creations of his imagination but always well-known personalities from the world of gods or demons, who have been venerated or propitiated for centuries by millions of believers ”. (…)
“According to the Tibetan occultists, these beings have acquired a kind of real existence due to the innumerable thoughts that have been concentrated on them.” (…) By identifying with them, the doubpapo puts himself in communication with an accumulation of energy far superior to that which he could generate by his own means” (…)
“Although existing in a state of latent force, the god created and nourished by the imagination of the crowds has no action except on those who put themselves in contact with him; A wire is necessary for the electricity dormant in an accumulator to cause the light to spring into the lamp. This comparison applies quite exactly to the idea of the Thibetians”.



41And, we will add, to that of the French occultists… Be that as it may, the fact remains that this strange notion appears as the shadow cast in the troubled and disturbing domain of occultism by a social concern which appeared in the 19th century. th century and which continued throughout the 20th century until today. Two centuries which, starting from the industrial revolution, were those of the great human masses, in the growing cities, in the factories, in the crowds of emigrants for America, the colonies, in the revolutions and the national struggles, in dantesque conflicts and mass massacres… or in mass distractions relayed by what will be called the mass media.

42It was normal that other than occultists should come to be interested in collectivities and their life as conscious or unconscious collectivities, and their dynamics...

Le Bon defines the notion of organized crowd, or psychological crowd​

43The notion of collective consciousness refers to beliefs and behaviors shared in a community and functioning as a separate and generally dominant force in relation to individual consciousness. The expression was first used by the sociologist Émile Durkheim (1858-1917) in several of his works, including The Rules of the Sociological Method .

44In The Psychology of Crowds (1895) Gustave Le Bon defines the crowd by these terms: “A meeting of any individuals, whatever their nationality, their profession or their sex, whatever the chances that bring them together”. Le Bon then says that when these individuals come together, “a collective soul is formed, transitory no doubt, but presenting very clear characteristics. The collectivity then becomes what, for lack of a better expression, I will call an organized crowd, or, if you prefer, a psychological crowd. It forms a single being and is subject to the law of the mental unity of crowds”.

45The egregore would undoubtedly have irritated Freud (1856-1939), who criticized the expression of a "soul of the crowd" in "The analysis of the self and the psychology of crowds", and asserted that the unconscious is individual, and that the formation of crowds could be explained by psychoanalysis, without having to distinguish it from a collective psychology.

46

47The legal theorist Hans Kelsen (1881-1973) reiterated this criticism, including the Hegelian notion of Volkgeist (Spirit of the people) in “ The notion of the State and the psychology of crowds” by asserting that it was about 'a hypostasis of inter-individual relations, the terms of his criticism are interesting when it comes to us:

48

“It is as if, in addition to the singular soul, we wanted to take into account a collective soul filling the interval between individuals, encompassing all individuals (…) thought in its ultimate consequences – of the fact that a soul without a body is empirically impossible – this representation necessarily leads to imagining in turn a collective body just as different from the individual bodies, in which we place the collective soul. It is through this bias that psychological sociology is led to the hypostasis which characterizes the theory of so-called organic society, a hypostasis which borders on the mythological.



49Kelsen turns out to be a positivist in his criticism of social psychology, but one can admit that a “hypostasis bordering on the mythological” would be a fairly good alternative definition of the egregore…

50Closer to home, we will borrow from the book by René Kaës The group and the subject of the group a quote from the psychoanalyst Didier Anzieu:

51

“A group is an envelope that holds individuals together; As long as this envelope is not constituted, there can be a human aggregate, there is no group.
What is this envelope? Sociologists who have studied groups, the administrators who have managed them, the founders who have created them, emphasize the network of implicit or explicit regulations, established customs, rites, acts and facts having value of jurisprudence, on the assignments of place within the group, on the particularities of the language spoken between the members and known only to them. (…) Reduced to its frame, the group envelope is a system of rules, the one that operates for example in any seminary, religious or psycho-sociological. From this point of view, all group life is caught up in a symbolic framework: it is this that makes it last. This, however, is a necessary but not sufficient condition. A group where the psychic life is dead can also survive. From its envelope,Certainly “the group envelope” concerns any well-structured group, and does not describe the essence of an initiatory order, Guénon would write that one does not leave the domain of the psychic, but this text clearly describes the difference between a “crowd ” à la Le Bon and a “group” inscribed in a continuity.

Pierre Mabille codifies the surrealist contribution, synthesis of Marx and psychoanalysis​

52We know the taste of the surrealists for the occult, and especially alchemy, as much as for Marx and psychoanalysis. Some have succeeded in synthesis as in transmutation. It was up to Pierre Mabille (1904-1952) to write a book unique in its subject matter, in its clear and elegant prose which serves up a tight but luminous discourse. Egregores or the life of civilizations appeared in 1938, and the ethnologist Luc de Heusch in his youth had made it his bedside book.

53

He writes: “ This [my position] is entirely realistic in the old sense of the word. Against the complicated, negative, agnostic doctrines of contemporary philosophy, I have chosen the simplest altitude. I hold thought as part of the general cosmic reality, our representation as the testimony of objects, ideas as existing in things. The brain is for me the agent destined to laboriously extract ideas from images in the same way as other parts of the body transform water, air, food into our living flesh which cooperates in the universal movement of evolution of things .
Consequently, social structures, although they cannot be perceived directly, seem to me not creations of our mind but existing entities, which does not prejudge their duration or their possible transformation”. (…)
“I call egregore, a word used in the past by the hermeticists, [We have seen what was the case with the “old” hermeticists] the human group endowed with a personality different from that of the individuals who form it. Although studies on this subject have always been either confused or kept secret, I believe it is possible to know the circumstances necessary for their formation. I immediately indicate that the indispensable condition, although insufficient, resides in a powerful emotional shock. To use the chemical vocabulary, I say that synthesis requires an intense energetic action. The simplest egregore is created between a man and a woman. Certainly these two beings can only mingle and keep their personal lives intact)” (…)
“Anatomy, physiology, the psychological novel taken in isolation do not exhaust the reality of man any more than partial sociological analyzes are satisfactory. Describing the importance of complex economic relationships or the value of sentimental motives are necessary tasks, but even more essential is the perception of the living unity that constitutes the social group. Among these multiple egregores, those which have the longest duration are civilizations”.



54We will let the poet Max Jacob conclude this panorama with these appropriate verses:

55

“The egregores are beings from the sky or elsewhere, more material than the gestures of dreams and more immaterial than the protozoa ”  [2]

Ratings​

• [1]
  Raymond Devise. A curious enigma: Biblical egregores and Masonic egregores. Works of the Villard de Honnecourt Lodge, Volumes XII and Volume XIV, Dervy, Paris, 1974 and 1978.
• [2]
  “The three egregores” in “Poems in verse”.

 

[Jefferson]

I have almost completed the pdf book and followed this thread and agree with the many comments here, particularly the ones about definitions and Stavish’s use of words. For some reason when he talks about “stories of individuation” when talking about the destruction of symbols and analogies and hence susceptibility to manipulation, I wondered what does this “individuation” mean using our cosmology? Would it have to do with the tuning of our individual reading instruments or something like that?

Stavish mentions how only the right person needs to be influenced and it is not only about controlling, but distracting people. We do see a multitude of distractions in our world.

However, I would like to add to what Perlou alluded to, which is I did not see this concept of ‘egregore’ as only negative, or only as some kind of warning to keep vigilant in terms of psychic hygiene and hyperdimensional attacks, but also as a positive and creative force. Something like using the imaginal to tap into a creative, positive hyperdimensional power. For example, hypothetically speaking, if a group of people with the same Aim met regularly to visualize another reality, which could potentially help and protect the group and others, would that be categorized as an ‘egregore’?

 

[Keit]

I am still not fully done with the book, but here are the thoughts I have so far.

• The concept of egregors as described in the book is important in the sense of understanding and remembering that everything we do, think and believe has a mark on the reality on various levels.
• Egregor is the mechanism of a mechanical control - emanations, as was described by Gurdgieff, in the 3D world.
• We may fall in confluence with an egregor.
• Egregor may act as a karmic mechanism, for lessons.
• Importance of psychic hygiene also has to do with what egregor one associates with. Remember names of God.
• Sitting between stools, strength of group, alignment with egregor and its created greater effect. As long as one isn't making a choice, it leads to a heightened level of chaos events in one's life.
• Spiders, eclipsing of realities. Laura's experience as described in "Amazing Grace". Previous or potential alignments come in opposition with a current choice.
• Not sure about them having a real physical bodies. Certainly not in all the cases. Sounds more accurate for them to be thought centers, acting through those who believe in them. "Real physical bodies" egregors are probably 4d STS.
• Hyperdimentional or higher influence sounds more like it when it comes to egregor's influence. But there could be various manifestations and variations according to a personal vibration level, like a specific part of the information field, focusing on a specific emanation and aligning with its principles. Also has to do with levels of being.
• When he talked about location specific egregors it reminded me of the saying "We are Russians and God is with us". Could it be the manifestation of a geographic egregor mentioned in the sessions?
• Another note worth mentioning that we can choose what egregor to align ourselves with and from which egregor to disconnect.
• All members of the group accept and feel group egregor's effect.
• Falling in confluence with a specific egregor can be used to deal with specific carmic levels and lessons. As was mentioned before.
• Example of not belonging to a local egregor. I lived in Israel for 20 years but never felt at home or resonated with it's nationalistic messages, it was foreign to me. I resonate more with the Russian idealist message. It reinforces the role of free will or choice.
• There could be well meaning people with little awareness of higher influences who resonate with the destructive or creative messages, They could be following a particular geographic egregor (set program and set fate) and are willing to play the role in order to fulfill the carmic lesson.
• In this respect I think it's possible to consciously choose where to reincarnate if one is aware of the possible future developments. It also means that one is is aware on some aware of the forces (egregors, et) acting on the region at large.
• Idea of the mind being able to create a “thoughtform,” an idea that can gain a certain amount of functional vitality and longevity for a specific purpose.
• Degree of free will and awareness influence relation with the thoughtform.
• Tulkus and Tulpas: astral body like Gurdgieff said. If enough internal work is being done, there is a possibility to retain an astral body after death.
• The difference is either to control the egregor for personal needs or there is an acceptance of the influence and being open to see what the Universe will do or respond. This appears to be the key point. One is tryling to determine the needs of the conduit, the other is willing to be the conduit to the creative energy.
• I have a personal experience that I can share. Some time ago I did some body work. The practitioner also looked at the information field She asked me if I had any conduits created or initiated, I replied that I had a Reki initiation. She replied that there was indeed a strong conduit that was created and that she could modify it for it to act in accordance to my own requirements and needs. That I could modify the "agreement" to make it "on my terms". I stopped her and told her that that the conduit remain as it is, without any conditions. This appears to be the blind spot of many practitioners, that some conduits (egregors) are being created by choice and "as they should be".
• To them these kind of conduits look like something that can cause unpredictable and not necessary positive changes in one's life. But if we accept the Work, we see it as a necessary tool to work on ourselves, and whatever events will transpire, they will act as a teaching or even a carmic tool. We are here to learn from our mistakes.
• There could be an influence by an egregor, and there is a clear human cosmic connection when it comes to historic events.
• Strength or influence of the ancestors and bloodline = generational trauma or fate. group lesson profile and reincarnation plays a role.
• When we ask for guidence and get answers, who answers? Higher self or group access to the information field?
• Limbic resonance within the group is like access to the group egregor.

There are also some quotes that I found note worth mentioning:

Today we witness the destruction of symbols and analogies by an unprecedented reification of them, in the wake of which we ourselves become reduced to manipulatable things that have no individuality of their own. Stories of individuation . . . may come as a timely reminder of looking deeper and farther ahead into the being-ness of our Being.

Gurdjieff said that the moment you step on the ladder, you can't stop. If you cease, you will degenerate quickly. Disconnection from egregor? The more knowledge and awareness you have, and connection with the network, the more strength egregor has and provides more protection.

The STS part can be manipulation to serve personal needs. Intent to use and manipulate, while egregors are probably very natural and part of the reality structure.

In the article Butler goes on to point out, as have previous authorities, that the fundamental nature of the egregore consists of collective emotions and that the thoughtform itself is amoral, taking its directions from those connected to it.

From the inner point of view, we may see it as a composite thought-form charged with emotional energy. This energy is evoked from all those who are linked with the thought-form and, if there are those in the group who know something of the psychic mechanism involved, it can be directed upon any chosen target. It is obvious that such energy can be used for good or evil purposes, the intention of those who manipulate the energy within the collective thought-form determining the way it is directed.

Sadhu asserts the existence of positive egregores, but for Tomberg all egregores are ultimately “demonic.” While Sadhu uses the twenty-two cards of the tarot’s Major Arcana as the basis for his presentation of Hermetic philosophy (primarily through the eyes of Martinism), he also includes an extensive amount of practical occult advice in each chapter.

My thought and speculation on the above is that it has to do with the intent of the person when he or she tries to create this kind of connection or tuning in. The more conditions, rules, rituals there are (that restrict the flow), the higher the chances that the connection will be done with the "demonic" egregor, creating a codependent, "using for their own purposes" situation.

Overall, there was a kind of psychic pall that hung over the place, and friends who came to visit me during that time remarked in one way or another about the extremely oppressive feeling of the place. . . . Almost as soon as my book was completed, the whole array of phenomena vanished almost at once. . . . I remained for another eight months or so, [and] they never reappeared.”15

Masters states that he believes this was a “clear-cut, complex, and powerful example of mind—and possibly soul as well—interacting with nature.”

Comment to the above: play with dirt, you will get dirty.

Individuals can lose their freedom to an entity that they or others have generated—an entity that is an artificial being whose creator becomes its slave.

Very important to keep in mind.

If we pause for a moment we find something a little deeper here. It is not just one person who is being distracted from the search for inner spiritual awakening or Truth. No, it is everyone who reads or comes into contact with a book of such banalities. We also see that evil does not need to control everyone, it just needs to influence the right one, and through this influence not even control people—simply keep them distracted.

Despite having the understanding above, many who dabble in magik believe that THEY have enough will and awareness to avoid pitfalls of interacting with forces far beyond their own understanding and abilities to control. It's the ultimate hubris.

So far I have an impression that all the groups, like Golden Dawn and others, often approach their interaction with various forces in the mechanical way that is akin to the research by the mainstream scientists. They base their findings on the research of other accepted and respected "esoteric experts", and then also put a great emphasis on the "evidence based esoterics" that is based on wrong or limited premises. Something that leaves them blind to various higher influences and manipulations while maintaining the belief that they are on top of it.

As the result their experiences are either colored by this faulty information, or they willingly give away their will to the forces who don't have their best interests at heart.

 

[heinrich]

I am still not fully done with the book, but here are the thoughts I have so far.

• The concept of egregors as described in the book is important in the sense of understanding and remembering that everything we do, think and believe has a mark on the reality on various levels.
• Egregor is the mechanism of a mechanical control - emanations, as was described by Gurdgieff, in the 3D world.
• We may fall in confluence with an egregor.
• Egregor may act as a karmic mechanism, for lessons.
• Importance of psychic hygiene also has to do with what egregor one associates with. Remember names of god.
• Sitting between stools, strength of group, alignment with egregor and its created greater effect. As long as one isn't making a choice, it leads to heightened level of chaos events in ones life.
• Spiders, eclipsing of realities. Laura's experience as described in "Amazing Grace". Previous or potential alignments come in opposition with a current choice.
• Not sure about them having a real physical bodies. Certainly not in all the cases. Sounds more accurate for them to be thought centers, acting through those who believe in them. "Real physical bodies" egregors are probably 4d STS.
• Hyperdimentional or higher influence sounds more like it when it comes to egregor's influence. But there could be various manifestations and variations according to a personal vibration level, like a specific part of the information field, focusing on a specific emanation and aligning with its principles. Also has to do with levels f being.
• When he talked about location specific egregors it reminded me of the saying "We are Russians and God is with us". Could it be the manifestation of a geographic egrego mentioned in the session?
• Another note worth mentioning that we can choose what egregor to align ourselves with and from which egregor to disconnect.
• All members of the group accept and feel group egregor's effect.
• Falling in confluence with a specific egregor can be used to deal with specific carmic levels and lessons. As was mentioned before.
• Example of not belonging to a local egregor. I lived in Israel for 20 years but never felt at home or resonated with it's nationalistic messages it was foreign to me. I resonate more with the Russian idealist message. It reinforces the role of free will or choice.
• There could be well meaning people with little awareness of higher influences who resonate with the destructive message, They could be following a particular geographic egregor (set program and set fate) and are willing to play the role in order to fulfill the carmic lesson.
• In this respect I think it's possible to consciously choose where to reincarnate if one is aware of the possible future developments. It also means that one is is aware on some aware of the forces (egregors, et) acting on the region at large.
• Idea of the mind being able to create a “thoughtform,” an idea that can gain a certain amount of functional vitality and longevity for a specific purpose.
• Degree of free will and awareness influence relation with the thoughtform.
• Tulkus and Tulpas: astral bosy like Gurdgieff said. If enough internal work is being done, there is a possibility to retain an astral body after death.
• The difference is either to control the egregor for personal needs or there is an acceptance of the influence and being open to see what the Universe will do or respond. This appears to be the key point. One is tryling to determine the needs of the conduit, the other is willing to be the conduit to the creative energy.
• I have a personal experience that I can share. Some time ago I did some body work. The practitioner also looked at the information field She asked me if I had any conduits created or initiated, I replied that I had a Reki initiation. She replied that there was indeed a strong conduit that was created and that she could modify it for it to act in accordance to my own requirements and needs. That I could modify the "agreement" to make it "on my turms". I stopped her and told her that that the conduit remain as it is, without any conditions. This appears to be the blind spot of many practitioners, that some conduits (egregors) are being created by choice and "as they should be".
• To them these kind of conduits look like something that can cause unpredictable and not necessary positive changes in ones lives. But of we accept the Work, we see it as a necessary tool to work on ourselves, and whatever events will transpire, they will act as a teaching or even a caric tool. We are here to learn from our mistakes.
• There could be engence by egregor and there is a clear human cosmic connection when it comes to historic events.
• Strength or influence of the ancestors and bloodline = generational trauma or fate. group lesson profile and reincarnation playes a role.
• When we ask to receive guidence and get answers, who answers? Higher self or group access to the information field?
• Limbic resonance with the group is like access to the group egregor.

There are also some quotes that I found note worth mentioning:


Gurdjieff said that the moment you step on the ladder, you can't stop. If you cease, you will degenerate quickly. Disconnection from egregor? The more knowledge and awareness you have, and connection with the network, the more strength egregor has and provides more protection.

The STS part can be manipulation to serve personal needs. Intent to use and manipulate, while egregors are probably very natural and part of the reality structure.




My thought and speculation on the above is that it has to do with the intent of the person when he or she tries to create this kind of connection or tuning in. The more conditions, rules, rituals there are (that restrict the flow), the higher the chances that the connection will be done with the "demonic" egregor, creating a codependent, "using for their own purposes" situation.



Comment to the above: play with dirt, you will get dirty.

individuals can lose their freedom to an entity that they or others have generated—an entity that is an artificial being whose creator becomes its slave.



Very important to keep in mind.



Despite having the understanding above, many who dabble in magik believe that THEY have enough will and awareness to avoid pitfalls of interacting with forces far beyond their own understanding and abilities to control. It's the ultimate hubris.

So far I have an impression that all the groups, like Golden Dawn and others, often approach their interaction with various forces in the mechanical way that is akin to the research by the mainstream scientists. They base their findings on the research of other accepted and respected "esoteric experts", and then also put a great emphasis on the "evidence based esoterics" that is based on wrong or limited premises. Something that leaves them blind to various higher influences and manipulations while maintaining the belief that they are on top of it.

As the result their experiences are either colored by this faulty information, or they willingly give away their will to the forces who don't have their best interests at heart.

thank you

 

[heinrich]

I grabbed the book on Kindle after seeing the recommendation to do so right before leaving for work on Friday. During a short break, I read through the introduction and was kind of blown away by this idea that Rome had fallen as a result of having lost it's egregore of Polytheism. We had read the first three volumes of Gibbon's 'The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire' in a local meetup I attend. Gibbons points the finger at Christianity as playing a substantial role in Rome's demise. I had come to the conclusion that he was likely right because the Church quickly became an institution in itself with it's own authorities and ideas of what was important which diluted the power of the State. Certainly, there were other factors as well but this idea of a powerful egregore that was at the core of Roman culture having been lost was an idea I hadn't considered. It certainly got my attention.

I also thought of Pendulums though I couldn't remember the term. So now we have two sources describing something similar but both are taking it, or at least seems to be, in an STS mode. I guess I can see the temptation of trying to harness forces that run groups of people like puppeteers for one's own advantage, even if I disagree which such an idea.

Prior to this I have been exposed to the term egregores from other sources in the last few weeks as if there's an egregore of the the term itself. I also noticed that some seem to imply that all phenomena is a result of the collective unconscious of masses of people. One guy was saying that the UFO phenomena itself was an egregore, but then later states; "this doesn't mean UFO's aren't real."

When we study the the various ways 4DSTS interacts with our world, we do see quite plainly a correlation between the expectations of a given culture and how that phenomena manifests itself. So it seems clear that there is a connection between the two.

Then there's the session about the planes at the bottom of the ocean that appeared and disappeared as a result of, or having as a strong factor, the expectations of masses of people.

So I think it's safe to say we have something powerful and real that can effect our reality in ways we don't fully understand. What can we piece together and possibly have some good questions for the C's? The C's have also given us the idea of becoming a "super organism" as a collective if we connect chakras, Which I take as meaning a unification of understanding and intent. Does this relate in any way to the power of egregores?

the effect of a multitude of people has been described in the book of pierre and laura, of which the title now escapes me...

 

[Mari]

I‘m only 30% into the book and I don’t have knowledge or have read occult literature, and just to list my first impressions.

To me, it also doesn’t fit the „Watchers“ concept, never mind the origin of the name - I suppose it was obfuscated on purpose to revert the Seeker from the real truth, as Laura already pointed out in previous post.

In the book, an egregore name is assigned to all bunch of things which has to be separated as not all of them are egregore per se.

From the book, the description of them is as follows:

„The important point is that an egregore is augmented by human belief, ritual, and especially by sacrifice. If it is sufficiently nourished by such energies, the egregore can take on a life of its own and appear to be an independent, personal divinity, with a limited power on behalf of its devotees and an unlimited appetite for further devotion.“

Personal divinity = running program?

Further:

„…it is also the home or conduit for a specific psychic intelligence of a nonhuman nature connecting the invisible dimensions with the material world in which we live.“

„Through the writings of David-Néel, the idea of the tulpa—an animated thoughtform that takes on autonomous existence—entered the vocabulary of Western esotericism and eventually that of the popular culture. Related to the word tulpa is a more common idea among schools of Tibetan Buddhism: that of tulku. Both tulpa and tulku are related to the idea of the mind being able to create a “thoughtform,” an idea that can gain a certain amount of functional vitality and longevity for a specific purpose.

…David-Néel’s writings is the idea of the tulpa’s ability to develop a mind of its own.

„…we may see it as a composite thought-form charged with emotional energy.“

To me it sounds like a “split of parts of oneself“ from Laura’s K&B videos, where we see she talks about attachments, which could be deep running programs to which energy is given, due to some strong emotion or upbringing or belief, and „developed a mind of their own“.

And, when that kind of thought loop/form is born (influenced by the Watchers/4D STS who can with no problem concentrate on a particular person and enhance negative thought patterns) we have an egregore or - as Laura put it - a conduit to 4D STS:

„…even in the astral, there is a certain amount of give and take. In algebraic terminology, “A” must go through “B” to arrive at “C.”“

Here I would say:
A-thought loop/form
B-egregore/conduit
C-4D STS

When a thought loop/form is presented on a larger scale, we have a massive feeding mechanism for 4D STS Watchers, and this part made me think of all the recent COVIDian and current wokism and transgender stuff (and can be applied to any ideology past or present):

„…unless care is taken, the power of independent thought may be reduced. For many people this is something they actually seek, they may feel inadequate in the everyday world and feel that by being linked in this way, they are protected from what they see as aggressive tendencies from other people. Or again, they may feel inadequate to deal with new ideas and situations and feel that the Group mind will do their thinking for them, and they will not be in danger of wrong thinking.“

„…Sadhu states that it is possible to attract sympathetic souls to an egregore for the purpose of vampirizing them—that is, feeding off their emotional and physical energies. Examples of this can clearly be seen in sporting events as well as political campaigns and various forms of media manipulation.“

So, egregores can hardly be a good thing, IMO, as the whole point of The Work is to deal with programs and false beliefs and cutting off the 4D STS feeding dynamic/conduit/egregore.

OSIT

 

[mkrnhr]

However, I would like to add to what Perlou alluded to, which is I did not see this concept of ‘egregore’ as only negative, or only as some kind of warning to keep vigilant in terms of psychic hygiene and hyperdimensional attacks, but also as a positive and creative force.

I don't know. This celestial cathedral business by these people smells a little. Why not a amphitheater or an apartments building? A cathedral implies a priesthood, builders (since these groups love their masonic lore) and worship. So who or what do they worship? If it's not clear or answered clearly, the unquestioning members of those groups might be in for some surprises.

 

[Jimmy Ssaz]

I do not remember the year I think that in a youtube video Laura talked about (creating reality) explained about the quantitative as it exerts a greater force and absorbs the smaller one enhancing a certain manifestation of reality. But the C's in a certain occasion I am not sure I think they said that the important thing was the QUALITY of people OSEA THE QUALITATIVE and if we relate this to the dances to the dance at 12 noon to (make it rain for example) could say that THE QUALITY INFLUENCE OVER QUANTITY and if the C's mention the TRIBAL UNITY maybe that's the way to cut the internet to the energy anchor of the elite something like the use of crystals to many people by the way I still don't have my crystal.

 

[Chaze]

I'm halfway through the book and can only agree with what has been said so far. Sure, there's probably something to what the writer is saying, but as Alana said, the hammer-and-nail analogy comes to mind. Another thing that caught my attention was a passage in which Stavish basically says that in order not to feed any evil egregores we shouldn't focus on the bad stuff – just focus on nice things. Again, there's some truth to this in that we shouldn't obsessively put all our time in observing evil and bad things, and I've noticed that if I dive too deep into some really nasty topic (e.g., pedophilia or alien abductions) it starts to "eat me up". Am I at those moments feeding an egregore, don't know. However, this talk about ignoring evil reminds me of the YCYOR schtick. Is this done on purpose?

Having said that, the first things that came to my mind as I learned about egregores was the mind boggling idiocy and synchronism of stupidity of today's European and American politicians. I wouldn't be surprised if they all are connected to the same 'egregore' who is having a heyday using them!

In Chapter 3, he mentions this regarding the methods of energetic “vampirism” utilized by egregores:

However, one need not be an official member of an egregore to be affected by it. Sadhu states that it is possible to attract sympathetic souls to an egregore for the purpose of vampirizing them—that is, feeding off their emotional and physical energies. Examples of this can clearly be seen in sporting events as well as political campaigns and various forms of media manipulation. “The operations of Ceremonial Magic do not extend only to two-plane entities, but also to incarnate ones. It is possible, under favorable conditions of course, to evoke and compel the astrosome [psychic body] of a living man or Egregore of a Chain, having incarnate representatives, and so on, to perform anything.”

Which to me describes quite well the C’s description of the “uplink” and/or “downloading” system used by 4D STS to commandeer our politicians.

I have almost completed the pdf book and followed this thread and agree with the many comments here, particularly the ones about definitions and Stavish’s use of words. For some reason when he talks about “stories of individuation” when talking about the destruction of symbols and analogies and hence susceptibility to manipulation, I wondered what does this “individuation” mean using our cosmology? Would it have to do with the tuning of our individual reading instruments or something like that?

Alana pointed out his emphasis on individuality and lack of knowledge and/or understanding of Soul Groups. And not to oversimplify this, but I think it could mean just being able to “see the unseen” and basing your life decisions off of that awareness rather than just getting sucked into hive-mind reactionary behaviors that feed (or feed through) the “egregore”.

I still have a little more reading to do as well, and I’m also soaking in everything in this thread as I read.

 

[PERLOU]

"Nous sommes victimes de nos croyances"...
C'est pourquoi il est utile de surveiller ses croyances...
Pour la méditation "Sanctum Céleste" (Messages du Sancum Celeste de Raymond Bernard, si j'ai acheté ce livre c'est parce que il en est question dans le livre "Entre deux vies de Whitton et Fisher recommandé par Laura) qui est très simple vous pouvez changer avec ce que vous voulez, c'est ce que je fais, j'ai pris la Cathédrale où j'ai fait mes première communion et communion solennelle mais vous pouvez choisir une forêt ou quoi que ce soit qui vous convienne...

"We are victims of our beliefs"...
This is why it is useful to monitor your beliefs...
For the "Sanctum Céleste" meditation (Messages du Sancum Celeste by Raymond Bernard, if I bought this book it is because it is mentioned in the book "Between two lives by Whitton and Fisher recommended by Laura) which is very simple you can change with what you want, that's what I do, I took the Cathedral where I did my first communion and solemn communion but you can choose a forest or whatever you like. ..

 

[seek10]

I am almost done reading the book and like some of you, I too have wondered whether Stavish is a man with a hammer who sees everything as a nail. Kind of like the anthropogenic global warming alarmists who blame humans for cosmic factors that have affected the Earth for ages.

I wouldn't deny that the creation of "egregores" by humans doesn't happen in the ways he describes, it is probable that it does, but I don't think that it occurs to the extent he seems to believe. If he takes into account the reality of hyperdimensional beings and their control over humanity for millennia it will explain a lot of his observations. And perhaps people who delve into dark magic and occult subjects don't always create these beings but attract them instead.

In a way, he seems to support individualism while generating alarm regarding the formation of groups. What he doesn't take into account is the idea of soul groups as described in the literature regarding life after death. He also seems to lack the psychological awareness that one person on their own cannot see their blindspots let alone the reality around them as objectively as possible, and a group of people is needed to help keep each other aware and awake (as he prescribes) in order to reach as much freedom as possible from the control system into which they are enslaved.

I don't know, I still have some more to read and I am still thinking about it all, those are just my first impressions.

It is the same impressions I got, though I only read up to 50% of book. The author misses the "bigger picture" and looks he doesn't have a clue of 4D STS, their agenda, the means they have to influence the public for their detriment (media, compulsions of rulers, cults like illuminati, inherent weakness of 3D etc.). Instead they took it as all "man made" thoughts/thought forms that produces astral leaks etc.

He talked about bad/vampiric egregores and has to be measure by "its own fruits" or whether the group "dispersing" or accumulating for itself. Which is ok, still it misses the limitations of the human frailties and the attractions it produces in astral world.

 

[Ben]

I've nearly finished the book and agree with the general consensus that seems to have formed already. A lot of the examples described and identified as egregores sound more like energy dynamics which would benefit STS entities, rather than being the entities themselves. The definitions are loose and a bit confused here compared to our existing cosmology. The occult focus on ritual, which restricts possibilities and flow as the C's said, all falls into this category of STS feeding. Very few of the things in this book sound explicitly like parts of an STO dynamic but with what we already know it doesn't take much imagination to see how that could work (creating an egregore as such seems unlikely though). Collective efforts and focus with awareness and knowledge are the opposite of collective activities without those things.

The overall importance of all this seems to be a reminder of the importance of where attention, emotions and thoughts are directed and why. Is there an understanding of the aim of the individual and any group which they interact with, is there any aim or understanding at all? I can't help but wonder about the 'egregore of the Russian SMO', with all the focus and intensity of feeling on both sides, but then I still think it makes more sense to describe that as a conduit of emotional energy being harvested than a specific overseer type entity being sustained as an individuated phenomenon. Hope that makes sense.

Sorry - my message above expired while editing, can someone please delete it?

 

[Alana]

Sorry - my message above expired while editing, can someone please delete it?

Done.

 

[LQB]

Reading the posts and listening to the audio book, I was reminded of William Corliss’s compilation of scientific papers: Strange Minds – A sourcebook of unusual mental phenomena Volume P-1. Under subcategories:

• Dissociative behavior
• Delusions and hysteria (individual and collective)

He has a paper,

Epidemic Convulsions by DW Yandell published in Popular Science Monthly – 1882. I found the paper reproduced on the web here:

Popular Science Monthly/Volume 20/February 1882/Epidemic Convulsions - Wikisource, the free online library

Bizarre convulsive behavior of collective attendees of “religious” events and preachings are described.

“Many instances are given of fainting, falling, trance, numbness, outcries, and convulsions, and he relates that some of the subjects lost their reason.[4] The epidemic of Kentucky spread more widely, and persisted for a longer time, as well as in more extravagant forms. It continued to reappear for several years, and involved a district of country extending from Ohio to the mountains of Tennessee, and even into the old settlements in the Carolinas. Lorenzo Dow relates that, at a religious meeting in the court-house of Knoxville, when the Governor of Tennessee was present, he saw one hundred and fifty people "jerking" at one time. But at other places the frenzy reached a greater height. It was computed that, at a religious meeting in Kentucky, not less than three thousand persons fell in convulsions to the ground.”

The whole paper (linked above) is worth reading. I have also read accounts where rational observers of these collective convulsions physically approached the event and were involuntarily drawn into the same irrational behavior.

This phenomena may have a place in the context of Egregores (or at least a subcategory).