disapointed with website
- Thread starter mugatea
- Start date
I don't really think that a website that is designed to draw customers and bring money for a particular service should really be considered "art" in the sense you have expressed it: personal pleasure for the creator. That's the problem here. You are identified with the website rather than understanding that it is just an experiment subject to tweaking. You have forgotten the goal.mugatea said:
You complain "its all about selling out, no longer pleasing yourself and instead pleasing an unforgiving faceless consumer" and you forget entirely that consumer is the one you are creating the website FOR!
And it is not so much "unforgiving and faceless" as it is external considering: the fact that other people are busy, are living their lives and there are thousands of other purveyors of services who know that and try to help them by taking as little time out of their lives as possible, while still delivering the goods.
Who did you create the website for? Yourself?
Hi Jamie:
I closed the site after about 5 secs. I think, it is because download volume equals money. Sure, 4MB is not much, but you don't know what you get for it. Impatient, I know, but that's the way it is today!
For most websites, I would say that only CONTENT counts. But there are also luxury shops (which I guess is your uncles business), where the IMAGE counts. So, I would say, it is totally ok to have such a website, because it is not for the mass market. Clients who are willing to buy, visit the site anyhow, no matter which appearance.
I programmed an amateur website for a local group of people myself. I used simple (strict) html with css, writing in plain MS Notepad! What a program!
Compared to Flash programming, it is certainly the other extreme.
But in simple html it IS possible to develop an extremely professional looking site, only with a few hundred kilobytes for the basic framework!
Personally, I avoid sites with music. Often, I get a shock because I forget to turn my sound level low after listening to music. Music preferences of people are so multifaceted, so that you hardly hit one's taste.
There is a saying:
I closed the site after about 5 secs. I think, it is because download volume equals money. Sure, 4MB is not much, but you don't know what you get for it. Impatient, I know, but that's the way it is today!
For most websites, I would say that only CONTENT counts. But there are also luxury shops (which I guess is your uncles business), where the IMAGE counts. So, I would say, it is totally ok to have such a website, because it is not for the mass market. Clients who are willing to buy, visit the site anyhow, no matter which appearance.
I programmed an amateur website for a local group of people myself. I used simple (strict) html with css, writing in plain MS Notepad! What a program!
Compared to Flash programming, it is certainly the other extreme.But in simple html it IS possible to develop an extremely professional looking site, only with a few hundred kilobytes for the basic framework!
Personally, I avoid sites with music. Often, I get a shock because I forget to turn my sound level low after listening to music. Music preferences of people are so multifaceted, so that you hardly hit one's taste.
There is a saying:
But anyhow, these are just my thoughts.
I loved the gray text !Laura said:
Danny
Jedi
I would like to add that absolutely NOTHING on the internet is what I would consider art.Unless you consider making money for yourself an art form.Even the most beautifully constructed sites with magnificent stuff for you to feast your eyes on will have something for sale.The closest facsimile I can come up with for the internet is the Ultimate home shopping channel.And also in this day and age most people have less of an attention span than the keyboard I am typing on.So in other words , if you keep it short and sweet,they will come.
Barry
Padawan Learner
Hi Jamie
I have a few thoughts that may be of interest to you.
1. The preload sequence is pretty bland - if people have to wait for 4mb to download, maybe you could throw a couple of product pictures in there, just to give them something to look at while they are waiting.
2. Why dont you try staggering the preload? Instead of scripting for the entire site downloading before the user can go anywhere - so your actionscript initially preloads say 30/50% of the site. Then the intro starts etc, but the site is still loading. Its handy to utilise the seconds where people cant do any browsing as they are watching the elements appear on the screen, because the flash still downloads as that happens. Also any subsections of the site can have their own preloader too. People might be more amenable to waiting, for example, for eight subsections to preload at 500k each as they navigate the site, than an initial 4mb.
4mb isnt a lot these days but when designing a site you need to have in mind that not everyone has broadband, and most people are impatient as hell!
3. It might be worth looking at increasing the framerate a little, it would remove the jerkiness of the animation in some sections.
I hope the above makes sense.
Overall its quite an elegant looking site, well done!
Barry
I have a few thoughts that may be of interest to you.
1. The preload sequence is pretty bland - if people have to wait for 4mb to download, maybe you could throw a couple of product pictures in there, just to give them something to look at while they are waiting.
2. Why dont you try staggering the preload? Instead of scripting for the entire site downloading before the user can go anywhere - so your actionscript initially preloads say 30/50% of the site. Then the intro starts etc, but the site is still loading. Its handy to utilise the seconds where people cant do any browsing as they are watching the elements appear on the screen, because the flash still downloads as that happens. Also any subsections of the site can have their own preloader too. People might be more amenable to waiting, for example, for eight subsections to preload at 500k each as they navigate the site, than an initial 4mb.
4mb isnt a lot these days but when designing a site you need to have in mind that not everyone has broadband, and most people are impatient as hell!
3. It might be worth looking at increasing the framerate a little, it would remove the jerkiness of the animation in some sections.
I hope the above makes sense.
Overall its quite an elegant looking site, well done!
Barry
Ruth
The Living Force
Lol, no, its like trying to get served at a shop or in a restaurant and walking off or going somewhere when you are ignored or 'service' is slow or non-existant. People don't like to wait for anything. This is because there are too many other things they could be spending their money (and most especially, time) on.mugatea said:
Even the Signs page takes a while to load, but there is something there.... a link 'for those that are in a hurry'. Perhaps they even had the same problem once?
mugatea
Jedi Master
Thanks for the replies. It will load quick and get straight to the point once I've finished it, but that'll be a few days.
Thanks Barry, I will try to increase the frame rate. Anyway, it will be bare bones soon, so I dont think it will matter too much. I'm quite content for it to be simple.
Cheers
Jamie
I did to a point, yeah and also for my uncle. For example the music I thought would please him. We both liked the website but thats cause I made it and it was his site, I didnt consider that people werent so attatched to the site, they were just interested in the content. I've learned that now. I've only ever been creative for myself. But I regret saying that it was for the unforgiving and faceless cause the website had probs that I had been happy to overlook and I'm glad that I'm aware of them now cause I can improve the site, which is after all, all I want to do.
Dont you think if it's done to a very high standard it can be classed art? Oh, I'm not suggesting mine is, cause its not but the internet is surely more that a shopping channel. Plumbing is form of art if its done good enough, yeah? I'm straying here.Danny said:
Thanks Barry, I will try to increase the frame rate. Anyway, it will be bare bones soon, so I dont think it will matter too much. I'm quite content for it to be simple.
Cheers
Jamie
D
Darren
Guest
I like the website, but I agree with what's been said already about waiting/loading times.
If the content remains largely static, meaning return visits by a user won't be too frequent, I don't think a few bells and whistles are a bad thing if it helps to make things more interesting. Keeping the updated sections quick and easy to access will also help. FWIW.
If the content remains largely static, meaning return visits by a user won't be too frequent, I don't think a few bells and whistles are a bad thing if it helps to make things more interesting. Keeping the updated sections quick and easy to access will also help. FWIW.
I might be misunderstanding what you're saying, but isn't the internet simply a vehicle/tool for many things including information, communication, art, technology, control, programming etc?Danny said:
mugatea
Jedi Master
Well, I've had a good think today about it. Thanks for all the replies I definately feel that I've benifited from them.
I've cut it down, but am wanting to change things further over the next few days.
here's the link to the cut down one.
http://www.tailoratdrum.co.uk/slimline/index.html
If anyone has the time can they give there opinions on load time? Is it still too slow? It's now 1.6mb, so thats a big drop from 4mb.
thanks
Jamie
I've cut it down, but am wanting to change things further over the next few days.
here's the link to the cut down one.
http://www.tailoratdrum.co.uk/slimline/index.html
If anyone has the time can they give there opinions on load time? Is it still too slow? It's now 1.6mb, so thats a big drop from 4mb.
thanks
Jamie
Mugatea, some thougths.
As some others mentioned, I'm also not a fan of "forced" music on websites. It interferes with any music I may have playing already, and it also "forces" a mood/atmosphere that I may not want. Plus, many people simply don't like that music at all. I usually don't bother looking for a stop button somewhere on the page if I hear music, I just turn off the page right away and go elsewhere.
The 4 meg size is huge for a splash page, plus the really long/slow animations slows the whole site down even more, so even if I am on broaband, the animation that loads each page makes it feel like slow dialup. You have good taste for design and I love the look, but functionally it has serious flaws. Also, you gotta consider your "target audience". That music and the pictures of your uncle and and the long loading times all cater to the older crowd. Younger crowd are generally annoyed by forced music, have no patience for any loading time above 1 second, and aren't exactly "sold" by a suit that they see modeled only by older men. But the older crowd are slow adapters of the latest and fastest hardware and software, including broadband connections, "fancy" browser enhancements like flash (which is your whole website), and fast computers that can handle all of that. So your site has serious turn-offs for any age group, whether it is due to music, the 4 meg size, the sluggish operation of the site, etc.
So my suggestion. Very nice design, props on that. Feel free to keep that design if you want, but I'd say get rid of the flash. Get rid of the music, or if you must, have just an "intro" sound as your site starts up but no more than that. Make the site responsive and fast. You can still have special effects, just quick ones. And when you say the customer is "faceless and unforgiving" - why should you expect the customer to "forgive" anything anyway? Forgiving implies that they have been inconvenienced/annoyed somehow in the first place (otherwise what is there to forgive?), but for what purpose would you be inconveniencing/annoying them? Seriously, you can do amazingly creative and beautiful things but still have them fast, small in download size, functional, elegant, and easy to use.
Oh and, if you could get your uncle to smile it would be nice. He seems like he's annoyed. Having a "serious look" is good of course, but I dunno how well the angry look sells the suits, no offense. If possible, you could find some well-built kid (a friend, or just somebody you know, or some random person), offer him like $50 so he can model some of those suits, and take some nice pictures with good resolution and color depth etc, and add those to the collection. I'm sure you could find somebody. K that's all I got :)
Edit: Even with the flash remaining, I like the cut down one much better, good job :D
As some others mentioned, I'm also not a fan of "forced" music on websites. It interferes with any music I may have playing already, and it also "forces" a mood/atmosphere that I may not want. Plus, many people simply don't like that music at all. I usually don't bother looking for a stop button somewhere on the page if I hear music, I just turn off the page right away and go elsewhere.
The 4 meg size is huge for a splash page, plus the really long/slow animations slows the whole site down even more, so even if I am on broaband, the animation that loads each page makes it feel like slow dialup. You have good taste for design and I love the look, but functionally it has serious flaws. Also, you gotta consider your "target audience". That music and the pictures of your uncle and and the long loading times all cater to the older crowd. Younger crowd are generally annoyed by forced music, have no patience for any loading time above 1 second, and aren't exactly "sold" by a suit that they see modeled only by older men. But the older crowd are slow adapters of the latest and fastest hardware and software, including broadband connections, "fancy" browser enhancements like flash (which is your whole website), and fast computers that can handle all of that. So your site has serious turn-offs for any age group, whether it is due to music, the 4 meg size, the sluggish operation of the site, etc.
So my suggestion. Very nice design, props on that. Feel free to keep that design if you want, but I'd say get rid of the flash. Get rid of the music, or if you must, have just an "intro" sound as your site starts up but no more than that. Make the site responsive and fast. You can still have special effects, just quick ones. And when you say the customer is "faceless and unforgiving" - why should you expect the customer to "forgive" anything anyway? Forgiving implies that they have been inconvenienced/annoyed somehow in the first place (otherwise what is there to forgive?), but for what purpose would you be inconveniencing/annoying them? Seriously, you can do amazingly creative and beautiful things but still have them fast, small in download size, functional, elegant, and easy to use.
Oh and, if you could get your uncle to smile it would be nice. He seems like he's annoyed. Having a "serious look" is good of course, but I dunno how well the angry look sells the suits, no offense. If possible, you could find some well-built kid (a friend, or just somebody you know, or some random person), offer him like $50 so he can model some of those suits, and take some nice pictures with good resolution and color depth etc, and add those to the collection. I'm sure you could find somebody. K that's all I got :)
Edit: Even with the flash remaining, I like the cut down one much better, good job :D
mugatea
Jedi Master
He's not annoyed, it's a look that says he's from the streets. It's gangsta.ScioAgapeOmnis said:
Thanks for you post. His customers are all old apart from the odd one. So, I try to be general in appeal. Anyway, were hoping soon to replace those pics, but at the mo they look to be staying in for just now.
thanks again
JAmie
I was loading very slowly for me and I have a cable modem with a decent downstream bandwith (I am across the big pond so there are many hops but still). I just reloaded and I am getting 1%/second which is almost unbearable.mugatea said:
Once the swf file is loaded then things are snappy going from one navigation menu item to the other.
How about removing that first landing page? It is inconsistent with the rest of the site in that you use a different template. Its nice and I like it but there is some dissonance present.
Also, since the target crowd is older, having a larger font size for the content text would be of benifit. I find the text too small myself and I am a thirty-something whipper-snapper.
Dominique.
dant
The Living Force
I have done marketing research awhile back, and when doing online business
presentations, it is very important to make your presentation very good, well
thought out, and fast page downloads, otherwise you may lose your online
customers.
Static pages and good presentation are the way to go in this case, fwiw.
Adding "bells and whistles" for the most part adds more complexity and
slows page downloads.
Adding dynamic code adds more complexity, and can cause customer distractions
because it forces your customers to move their eyes, often times away from your
business model.
Personally, I cannot tolerate dynamic advertisements, music, flashes, and I will
immediately terminate that page and to avoid it forever whenever possible especially
when I know exactly what I am looking to buy as a customer. I simply do not desire
or need distractions. It is hard enough to figure out what is on that page, how to use
it, and so on, so why add more complexity and/or confusion?
Fwiw, the worst thing you can do to your customer is to force your customers to wait
for "something to appear" and/or make them sit through a "session". You cannot know
in advance just how much waiting tolerance they have. Are you willing to risk losing
a customer?
Most customers are not going to spend a lot of money for fast download connections
and will for the most part be using slow(er) connections. If so, it takes longer to download
images - especially "large" images and/or there are a lot of them on the same page, or
large files such as swf and other similar formats.
As for your swf file, it takes too long for me waiting to see what it is even when I have
a "fast" static DSL connection (1MB/1MB) with guaranteed bandwidth in both directions.
As for cable, download rates are variable, it uses shared bandwidth, and depending on how
many people join in and start using their connection, bandwidth drops and page downloads
go from Great to Bad, or Bad to Bad, or Bad to Great, or Great but again, it is variable. There
is no way to control bandwidth usage, it is not guaranteed.
Don't take my word for it, but do some marketing research and try to gather enough data
to ensure that your online business model will be a successful one.
FWIW
presentations, it is very important to make your presentation very good, well
thought out, and fast page downloads, otherwise you may lose your online
customers.
Static pages and good presentation are the way to go in this case, fwiw.
Adding "bells and whistles" for the most part adds more complexity and
slows page downloads.
Adding dynamic code adds more complexity, and can cause customer distractions
because it forces your customers to move their eyes, often times away from your
business model.
Personally, I cannot tolerate dynamic advertisements, music, flashes, and I will
immediately terminate that page and to avoid it forever whenever possible especially
when I know exactly what I am looking to buy as a customer. I simply do not desire
or need distractions. It is hard enough to figure out what is on that page, how to use
it, and so on, so why add more complexity and/or confusion?
Fwiw, the worst thing you can do to your customer is to force your customers to wait
for "something to appear" and/or make them sit through a "session". You cannot know
in advance just how much waiting tolerance they have. Are you willing to risk losing
a customer?
Most customers are not going to spend a lot of money for fast download connections
and will for the most part be using slow(er) connections. If so, it takes longer to download
images - especially "large" images and/or there are a lot of them on the same page, or
large files such as swf and other similar formats.
As for your swf file, it takes too long for me waiting to see what it is even when I have
a "fast" static DSL connection (1MB/1MB) with guaranteed bandwidth in both directions.
As for cable, download rates are variable, it uses shared bandwidth, and depending on how
many people join in and start using their connection, bandwidth drops and page downloads
go from Great to Bad, or Bad to Bad, or Bad to Great, or Great but again, it is variable. There
is no way to control bandwidth usage, it is not guaranteed.
Don't take my word for it, but do some marketing research and try to gather enough data
to ensure that your online business model will be a successful one.
FWIW
D
Darren
Guest
Hi Jamie,
I noticed on the 'what's new' section that the choice of colour fabrics at the bottom of the page is displayed in black and white, so at a glance and without rolling over each image, I'm not able see the choice of colours on offer. A larger colour image for each menu item would be more useful I think.
I noticed on the 'what's new' section that the choice of colour fabrics at the bottom of the page is displayed in black and white, so at a glance and without rolling over each image, I'm not able see the choice of colours on offer. A larger colour image for each menu item would be more useful I think.