China and Russia plan build a Moon Station to rivals NASA’s planned Gateway.

China and Russia unveil joint plan for lunar space station (by the guardian)

The station is envisioned as a "complex of experimental research facilities created on the surface and/or in the orbit of the moon," according to a statement from Roscosmos (Russian Space Agency).

NASA stepped up its push to return astronauts on the Moon under the Trump administration through its Artemis program. Part of that push involved spearheading a multilateral pact called the Artemis Accords, an effort to set standards of behavior in space. Nine other countries have signed the Artemis Accords so far, but Russia is not among them, after the US sought to exclude Moscow from early talks on the Accords last year.

NASA secured agreements with the European Space Agency, Japan, and Canada for work on its Lunar Gateway, the planned space station orbiting the Moon.

NASA did ask Russia to be a part of building that station, but Moscow decided that NASA’s request for Russia to provide an airlock for Gateway was “impractical”.

Russia soon pivoted its attentions to China’s lunar ambitions. Cooperating with China became one of Russia’s “top priorities” last year.
 

MJF

Dagobah Resident
Border Dog: I was going to respond to your post on the Atlantis thread but stumbled on to this new thread first. You may recall that I mentioned a book by the American remote viewer Ingo Swan. I offered to post it on the Atlantis forum if you wanted to read it. However, since you seem to have an interest in lunar developments, I thought I would post it here as Swan's book 'Penetration' has a lot to do with the Moon. You will see that, if what he saw during his remote viewing session was for real, the Americans, Russians and Chinese will not be the first to establish lunar bases. Someone else is already there.​
 

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You will see that, if what he saw during his remote viewing session was for real, the Americans, Russians and Chinese will not be the first to establish lunar bases. Someone else is already there.​

Hi MJF, thank you for the book, I didn't read yet, but I'll do it to know the contents.

I'm some sceptical with that annouced plan, because of Secret Space Program (SSP) working on solar system, and Solar Warden that works out of solar system, an So, I wonder the sense of relevance of that Russia-China of moon plan, while we know and can manage "other" powerful subttil options of Cosmos Exploration, whitout that "dense material" tech apparatus.

I opened this topic thinking in possible end of US hegemony, which some sources of information have said it will be (military and industry) supplanted by the two East Big countries.

-----
about US CIA Remote View, I can offer a interesting declassified document from 1984 suggesting the Agency may have observed ancient life on Mars via astral projection, which means that someone was intentionally have an out-of-body experience in order to witness a specific point in time, in case on the planet Mars.

the titled "Mars Exploration: May 22, 1984", documents an interview in which an unnamed 'Subject' speaks to an also-anonymous 'Monitor'. It suggests that the subject can see images of ancient life on Mars.

The Monitor then tells them: "Go back to a period of time where they are there," suggesting that the subject is moving through various time and space co-ordinates.

on the document contents, It reads:

The planet Mars.
Time of interest approximately
1 million years B.C.

very interesting -- MARS EXPLORATION

I guess the book may tell about related things on others places.
 

MJF

Dagobah Resident
Hi MJF, thank you for the book, I didn't read yet, but I'll do it to know the contents.

I'm some sceptical with that annouced plan, because of Secret Space Program (SSP) working on solar system, and Solar Warden that works out of solar system, an So, I wonder the sense of relevance of that Russia-China of moon plan, while we know and can manage "other" powerful subttil options of Cosmos Exploration, whitout that "dense material" tech apparatus.

I opened this topic thinking in possible end of US hegemony, which some sources of information have said it will be (military and industry) supplanted by the two East Big countries.

-----
about US CIA Remote View, I can offer a interesting declassified document from 1984 suggesting the Agency may have observed ancient life on Mars via astral projection, which means that someone was intentionally have an out-of-body experience in order to witness a specific point in time, in case on the planet Mars.

the titled "Mars Exploration: May 22, 1984", documents an interview in which an unnamed 'Subject' speaks to an also-anonymous 'Monitor'. It suggests that the subject can see images of ancient life on Mars.

The Monitor then tells them: "Go back to a period of time where they are there," suggesting that the subject is moving through various time and space co-ordinates.

on the document contents, It reads:

The planet Mars.
Time of interest approximately
1 million years B.C.

very interesting -- MARS EXPLORATION

I guess the book may tell about related things on others places.
Border Dog: Thank you for posting 'Mars Exploration'. I had a quick skim through it and I think it may be the same account I read a few years ago. It is worth warning you that one of the people who may have been involved in that remote viewing program was Courtney Brown. He wrote a book called 'Cosmic Voyage', which supposedly provided an account of the Mars remote viewing sessions (indeed it could overlap with what is contained in Mars Exploration). The C's outed him as a disinformation agent. Although he can remote view, what he talked about in his book was really the inner earth aryans (Nation of the Third Eye), not Martians. I am not convinced that what the CIA remote viewers saw on Mars, the so called 'Monuments of Mars', dated back to 1 million years B.C. We know the Atlantians were on Mars tens of thousands of years ago and they built those monuments, not ancient Martians. Indeed, the C's seemed to suggest that the only native hominids on Mars were the Yeti or Bigfoot, who are very primitive creatures in comparison to humans.

I agree that the current chemical rocket projects to send humans back to the Moon and to explore Mars seem terribly outdated and is just for public consumption. If what Gary McKinnon saw when he hacked NASA and the Pentagon's computer systems is true, then they have space vehicles far in advance of what the major powers put on show for us today. I know the American Navy continued to develop atomic powered rockets well into the 1970's in breach of Space Treaties with the USSR. They must have more exotic propulsion systems by now surely?

There is also the possibility of another player in the mix and that is the Nazis, who continued their space research after the War in Antartica, South America and possibly Tibet. There were numerous UFO sightings in South America and in China from the late 1940's onwards. David Childress Hatcher's recent book 'Antartica and The Secret Space Program' covers the subject in depth. Perhaps a version of his book may be published in your language. It is worth investigating.

 
On topic,
I found two related bits of info, which worth to "look"

-----
China wants a long-term presence on the Moon in the 2030s.

China has previously disclosed its ambitions to build an international lunar station at the South Pole of the Moon, beginning with robotic missions and followed by short-term human missions in the early 2030s. The country plans to establish a long-term human presence at the South Pole—which is believed to contain vast reserves of water ice—during the period of 2036 to 2045.

Previously, the European Space Agency has also expressed interest in partnering with China on future missions to the Moon.

This most recent announcement comes after the United States, under new President Joe Biden, has confirmed that it will continue with the Artemis plan to return NASA astronauts, and those from partner agencies, to the Moon sometime in the 2020s. NASA, too, would like to establish a lunar base and assess the viability of the water resources at the South Pole.

-----
The International Space Station's end will mix up space geopolitics

The end of the program will force nations collaborating on the station, along with China and others new to the human spaceflight scene, to recalibrate. They could also turn their attention to cooperating — or competing — on the Moon instead.

The U.S. could end its support of the space station at the end of 2024, but NASA and its partners are considering extending its life until 2028.

Another wrinkle in the post-ISS geopolitical landscape is China's ambition to build its own station orbiting Earth, which is expected to come online around the time the ISS ends.

Not all attention will turn to the Moon at the end of the space station, however. NASA is hoping to make use of private space stations under development as a proving ground for missions to deeper space.

Geopolitics are shifting in space as the ISS winds down and nations start to look to the Moon as a place for collaboration.
 

MJF

Dagobah Resident
On topic,
I found two related bits of info, which worth to "look"

-----
China wants a long-term presence on the Moon in the 2030s.

China has previously disclosed its ambitions to build an international lunar station at the South Pole of the Moon, beginning with robotic missions and followed by short-term human missions in the early 2030s. The country plans to establish a long-term human presence at the South Pole—which is believed to contain vast reserves of water ice—during the period of 2036 to 2045.

Previously, the European Space Agency has also expressed interest in partnering with China on future missions to the Moon.

This most recent announcement comes after the United States, under new President Joe Biden, has confirmed that it will continue with the Artemis plan to return NASA astronauts, and those from partner agencies, to the Moon sometime in the 2020s. NASA, too, would like to establish a lunar base and assess the viability of the water resources at the South Pole.

-----
The International Space Station's end will mix up space geopolitics

The end of the program will force nations collaborating on the station, along with China and others new to the human spaceflight scene, to recalibrate. They could also turn their attention to cooperating — or competing — on the Moon instead.

The U.S. could end its support of the space station at the end of 2024, but NASA and its partners are considering extending its life until 2028.

Another wrinkle in the post-ISS geopolitical landscape is China's ambition to build its own station orbiting Earth, which is expected to come online around the time the ISS ends.

Not all attention will turn to the Moon at the end of the space station, however. NASA is hoping to make use of private space stations under development as a proving ground for missions to deeper space.

Geopolitics are shifting in space as the ISS winds down and nations start to look to the Moon as a place for collaboration.
Border Dog: You have hit on a good point here. There is a new space race shaping up. I am a big fan of the American author Dr. Joseph P. Farrell. He has his own website The Giza Community | Home of Dr. Joseph P. Farrell, which always has very informative articles. He writes on a very wide spectrum of subjects. I appreciate that English is not your first language but perhaps his books are published in your language. It would be worth checking them out. But I warn you, he is an academic, so even in English his books are a tough read (sometimes the footnotes are longer than the page itself).

One of the themes Farrell has promoted in his works is that the coming space race could well be a rerun of how the major European powers opened up the New World in the 15th and 16th Centuries. Many writers now feel that certain people or groups already had prior knowledge of the New World even before Christopher Columbus' famous voyages of discovery starting in 1492, which would lead to the exploration and colonisation of the Americas. These groups included the Knights Templar Order. Columbus may well have been a templar himself even though the famous military order had been forcibly disbanded in 1312. He certainly sailed under the auspices of the Portugese Knights of Christ, who were a spin off order from the Templars. It is possible that he had in his possession maps of the New World passed on by the Templars. You only have to think of the famous 'Piri Reis' Map to see how this could have been possible.

Farrell thinks that what was true of the New World may also be true now of the Solar System. The Americans through NASA, and to some extent the Russians, have been exploring the Solar System since the 1950's with their space probes and landers. They no doubt have already amassed a great deal of knowledge about what is out there, not all of which they have shared with the public. They, therefore, have an appreciable head start on their rivals such as China, India, Japan and even the Europeans (ESA). This includes knowledge of prior colonisation of some of these worlds by the Atlanteans, as confirmed by the C's. Indeed, people like Mike Bara think the NASA moon missions of the late 1960's and early 1970's were, amongst many other things, technology retrieval missions.
See Ancient Aliens On The Moon: Amazon.co.uk: Mike Bara: 9781935487852: Books

Hence, the new space race to grab the riches of the cosmos could in due course become as heated as the rivalry over the New World was for the European powers of the late middle ages. The only fly in the ointment is that some of these worlds (e.g., the Moon and Mars) are already occupied by 4th Density STS entities. Will they therefore permit human exploitation of what they consider their turf?
 
I appreciate that English is not your first language but perhaps his books are published in your language.

Thank you, I'm somewhat proficient in Latin foreign languages, and allways have contact with tech english, reading, writing, on books, articles, manuals, that of course is not "coloquial" native mode, so my way of communication is rudimentar. Even on portuguese, I usually speech as tech, concise. I'm aware that whitout english I loose the main source of infos.

Well, about "new space race" I don't think that mankind (homo sapiens) are appropriated to live well out of Earth Environment, at least not with the 3D (physicall) body, because It is very limited on many aspects to stay out of Earth gravity and electro-magnetic fields .. the mass material, either physic or psych (aether or astral) belongs to the mother place, like any other animal who live here. I don't think it's impossible, but It's no easy to sustain 3D life for long out of planetary resources.

By the principle "As Above, So Bellow", space races can not live for long beside human race, so that they disappear quickly or don't even appear, probably because here must be dangerous for them (As Above, So Bellow).

I don't know what you think, but our 3D body live only with 4~5% of perception able to work on a dense environment, very adverse of space (cosmos) conditions.

----

About Moon Station,

I wonder if that plan (object) couldn't be already there, and Russia-China are using the info to make propaganda, as you said .. "send humans back to the Moon and to explore Mars seem terribly outdated and is just for public consumption"

so please, take a look on that infos:

UFO Recorded Near the Moon Baffles Ufologists and Conspiracy Theorists

1-ufo-2.png


Alien city discovered on dark side of the Moon

alien-1275853.jpg


NASA images seem to show squared shaped blocks, which conspiracy theorists claim is proof there was an ancient alien civilisation

0_NASA.jpg
 

MJF

Dagobah Resident
Thank you, I'm somewhat proficient in Latin foreign languages, and allways have contact with tech english, reading, writing, on books, articles, manuals, that of course is not "coloquial" native mode, so my way of communication is rudimentar. Even on portuguese, I usually speech as tech, concise. I'm aware that whitout english I loose the main source of infos.

Well, about "new space race" I don't think that mankind (homo sapiens) are appropriated to live well out of Earth Environment, at least not with the 3D (physicall) body, because It is very limited on many aspects to stay out of Earth gravity and electro-magnetic fields .. the mass material, either physic or psych (aether or astral) belongs to the mother place, like any other animal who live here. I don't think it's impossible, but It's no easy to sustain 3D life for long out of planetary resources.

By the principle "As Above, So Bellow", space races can not live for long beside human race, so that they disappear quickly or don't even appear, probably because here must be dangerous for them (As Above, So Bellow).

I don't know what you think, but our 3D body live only with 4~5% of perception able to work on a dense environment, very adverse of space (cosmos) conditions.

----

About Moon Station,

I wonder if that plan (object) couldn't be already there, and Russia-China are using the info to make propaganda, as you said .. "send humans back to the Moon and to explore Mars seem terribly outdated and is just for public consumption"

so please, take a look on that infos:

UFO Recorded Near the Moon Baffles Ufologists and Conspiracy Theorists

1-ufo-2.png


Alien city discovered on dark side of the Moon

alien-1275853.jpg


NASA images seem to show squared shaped blocks, which conspiracy theorists claim is proof there was an ancient alien civilisation

0_NASA.jpg
Border Dog: Sadly it is true that a lot of the best source material on alien bases on the Moon etc. are written in English. I would particularly direct you to chapters 4 and 5 of Ingo Swan's book though since it there that he refers to observing an alien base on the far side of the Moon with both aryan human and alien humanoid types in attendance.

The article and photos are very interesting thanks. Please note though that the C's have confirmed in the transcripts that the greys are using the Moon as a base but some of the ruined buildings seen in NASA photographs of the Moon are the remnants of former Atlantian colonies. Mike Bara has a website at MIKE BARA.com, which does have a few photos that bear this out, although many seem to have been taken down presumably because of copyright infringement. I even have a copy somewhere of a structure on the Moon that is in the shape of a Nazi swastika, which has led some to believe the Nazis may haveestablished a base on the Moon. Indeed, Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin were supposed to have told Mission Control at Houston, on a non-public radio link, that they had seen very large spaceships observing them from the rim of a crater when they first set foot on the Moon.

"I don't know what you think, but our 3D body live only with 4~5% of perception able to work on a dense environment, very adverse of space (cosmos) conditions."

I think this is basically correct but that does not mean that undertaking manned space voyages to other planets in the Solar System is out of the question. The main issue of living in zero gravity has probably been solved, given that the C's have confirmed that, contrary to public knowledge, they have artificial gravity on the ISS. Shielding astronauts from the harmful effects of radiation can also be solved by using deflectors on space ships as in Star Trek. I read a few years ago that scientists were making breakthroughs in this regard. It is true that humans are geared to the Schumann resonance or natural frequency of the Earth but the Americans conquered this with the early Mercury and Gemini space missions by creating that frequency in the space capsules.

I would also refer to Morris Jessup's book 'The Case for the UFO' (the Varo version) that has been discussed in the transcripts and on the Forum. The so called 'gypises' who added annotated comments in the margins referred to human sailors being abducted by aliens as they made good crewmen for long space voyages, being used to journeying far from home for months at a time.
 
Shielding astronauts from the harmful effects of radiation can also be solved by using deflectors on space ships as in Star Trek.

at this point I would like to note the difference between tech advances and evolutionary steps, because a tech advance not means being a evolutionary step.

although tech advance can support life under adverse "natural" conditions, a evolutionary life can overcome the natural adversities to preserve the next generations whitout tech apparatus.

tech advance usually "freeze" life evolution in favour to obsolescence, while life evolution melt the obsolescences either created by natural or by non natural advances.
 

XPan

The Living Force

May I suggest...

from a viewpoint of a photographer - the image showing the moon is a lot out of focus. And so does the speck above, which appears to me like a planet or bright star - also out of focus.

It has a slight ring-formed appearance (bokeh ring) - which stars/planets (and other dot like highlights) often do, when being outside the zone of sharpness.


“Alien city on the moon”

one weakness in the second photo - that sticks out in my eyes, is that the “above city” has an unreal threshold / transition between black (shadow) and white (illuminated area). It looks photoshopped in the very transition area. Like a dark paint brush going over the white area.

I get this effect when i retouch black & white scans from negatives, in which i want to make a white detail much darker - but it rarely looks 100% authentic.

The “lower city” does not exhibit that, albeit it too, lies near the transition zone between light and shadow. (By the way: it looks like groups of bacterium which has been inverted in order to look white).

But this is just a suggested viewpoint of mine as a photographer since 35 years who has and is doing “everything” (analog/digitalt/darkroom).

Note: This is not a guarantee that I can’t make mistakes or errors in judgement. But the years have added heightened sensitivity about many small nuances and appereances in the area of photography, people do not often pay attention to). And it is not so easy to distinguish something, when you are not familiar with the characteristics.

I would not be surprised to find artifacts on both Moon and Mars. In cases they do exist - i am sure that real images would be more real in their appereance - compared to the first two shown photos.

The other issue is the nature of 3D vs 4D. The materialistic view of 3D often excludes the elusive and for us strange unknown nature of 4D - including the whereabouts of entities who act within that higher realm, into ours. (Bleed though)
 

MJF

Dagobah Resident
at this point I would like to note the difference between tech advances and evolutionary steps, because a tech advance not means being a evolutionary step.

although tech advance can support life under adverse "natural" conditions, a evolutionary life can overcome the natural adversities to preserve the next generations whitout tech apparatus.

tech advance usually "freeze" life evolution in favour to obsolescence, while life evolution melt the obsolescences either created by natural or by non natural advances.
Border Dog the issue you raise is a huge one where long term space exploration is concerned. I remember watching an Ancient Aliens episode not so long ago where they discussed this matter. It is quite evident to scientists that human physiology, as it is at the moment, is not ideal for long term space voyages. One answer may be transhumanism where the human body can be augmented by cybernetics. This would not be natural evolution though and the ultimate end might see a creature having more in common with Star Trek's the Borg (if you are familiar with the TV show) than with present humanity. This then raises the fundamental question of what it is to be human? What trade-offs will you need to make to become a space faring race?

One solution might be to use androids or robots to conduct deep space exploration. There are huge advances being made in robotics at the moment. I have seen a NASA robot that looks basically humanoid in shape, which is intended to be used on the ISS, if it isn't already. Obviously, robots can go into environments that would be deadly to humans and function normally.

Scientists also believe that human beings will adapt to new environments should we ever establish colonies on other worlds such as Mars. Given that some of these planets/moons will have lower gravities than here on Earth, what will happen to the human physique over many generations. Will people grow much taller, for example, on such worlds? Will lungs and blood pressure adapt to different atmospheres and atmospheric pressures? We already know that runners who live and run at higher altitudes have an advantage over those who don't when it comes to long distance running.

Who is to say though that we would not overcome many of these concerns by moving to 4th Density as the C's have suggested in our near future.
 

Nienna

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
The main issue of living in zero gravity has probably been solved, given that the C's have confirmed that, contrary to public knowledge, they have artificial gravity on the ISS.
Can someone show where the Cs have said this? I am unable to find it and don't remember it.
 

MJF

Dagobah Resident
May I suggest...

from a viewpoint of a photographer - the image showing the moon is a lot out of focus. And so does the speck above, which appears to me like a planet or bright star - also out of focus.

It has a slight ring-formed appearance (bokeh ring) - which stars/planets (and other dot like highlights) often do, when being outside the zone of sharpness.


“Alien city on the moon”

one weakness in the second photo - that sticks out in my eyes, is that the “above city” has an unreal threshold / transition between black (shadow) and white (illuminated area). It looks photoshopped in the very transition area. Like a dark paint brush going over the white area.

I get this effect when i retouch black & white scans from negatives, in which i want to make a white detail much darker - but it rarely looks 100% authentic.

The “lower city” does not exhibit that, albeit it too, lies near the transition zone between light and shadow. (By the way: it looks like groups of bacterium which has been inverted in order to look white).

But this is just a suggested viewpoint of mine as a photographer since 35 years who has and is doing “everything” (analog/digitalt/darkroom).

Note: This is not a guarantee that I can’t make mistakes or errors in judgement. But the years have added heightened sensitivity about many small nuances and appereances in the area of photography, people do not often pay attention to). And it is not so easy to distinguish something, when you are not familiar with the characteristics.

I would not be surprised to find artifacts on both Moon and Mars. In cases they do exist - i am sure that real images would be more real in their appereance - compared to the first two shown photos.

The other issue is the nature of 3D vs 4D. The materialistic view of 3D often excludes the elusive and for us strange unknown nature of 4D - including the whereabouts of entities who act within that higher realm, into ours. (Bleed though)
XPan: I appreciate your comments as a professional photographer. With photoshop techniques being readily available now, it is very easy for people to post photos on the internet and claim they are genuine.

I have been following photographs of the Moon and Mars, which show anomalies and artificial structures, for many years now. Most of these anomaly hunters work with original NASA or ESA photographs and some of these people have expertise in the field of studying satellite imagery. If there is any doctoring of photographs here, then it is done by NASA and ESA themselves to hide what their cameras have revealed. One man who blew the whistle on this practice was Ken Johnston a NASA employee - see Ken's Moon!: Revealing The "Dark Mission" of NASA: Johnston Sr, Ken: 9781986772914: Amazon.com: Books.

The PTB seem desperate to disparage the work of the anomaly hunters given the tone of this hit piece by Rational Wiki Lunar anomalies - RationalWiki.

However, the C's have validated what these people have claimed by confirming the existence of Atlantean ruins on the Moon and Mars and perhaps elsewhere in the Solar System. I could post hundreds of these anomalous images on the site if I wished but people should I think seek them out themselves and make their own judgment on them.

I would also point out that professional and amateur astronomers have been seeing strange lights and objects in the sky for centuries now and have been at a loss to explain them. The reason I quoted Morris Jessup's book 'The Case for the UFO' was because he was an astrophysicist who had collected hundreds of these strange astronomic observations and he used them in his book to show that there was a real issue behind UFO's that was worthy of scientific study. People should really read his book as the C's hsve said it contains a treasure trove of information. I have finished reading it for a second time only just recently. I often compare what the so called 'gypsy' commentators said in the margins to things the C's have revealed in the transcripts. Their comments can be most illuminating.

Finally, you are right where you mention "The materialistic view of 3D often excludes the elusive and for us strange unknown nature of 4D". How often people have snapped a photograph and only after developing it have they seen a UFO where their naked eye had not. I would suggest that this is because modern cameras use very high speed film, which can capture objects operating at high frequency such as those at 4D. In addition, I seem to recall that the C's once said that images of Saturn and Jupiter look surreal when viewed because they are in fact 4D worlds. Food for thought.
 
How often people have snapped a photograph and only after developing it have they seen a UFO where their naked eye had not. I would suggest that this is because modern cameras use very high speed film, which can capture objects operating at high frequency such as those at 4D.
good attempt, but the suggestion is not so good because 4D is not "dense" enough where something solid (as clotted) can be registered in a 3D photography.

For example, Kirlian photo is the record of something "Proportional to its Bioenergy", obtained through a method of capturing the image around objects exposed to a high frequency electric field, under high voltage with a photographic support.

How does Light propagate in Space on 4D ? :huh:

Regard that "energetic footage" is not an object per se, and most Lighting Balls suposed being UFOs, when one see "a footage", It probably means that the 4D source object is not more there.

BTW, To "understand" 4D, need to be aware and develop third eye (sixth chakra), otherwise one can only get subtil glimpses.
 
from a viewpoint of a photographer - the image showing the moon is a lot out of focus. And so does the speck above, which appears to me like a planet or bright star - also out of focus.

many thanks for your comments.
The point of view from an Expertise is always Welcome, indeed.

the moon image is out of focus because it's source was a home video.

If you didn't it yet, please click the link and watch the video (1m:30s),
I guess you'll see better, at least how the image was obtained. It worth!

The object seems to be near the Moon, because it moves while filmed.
 
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