'Brexit' wins, UK to leave the EU?

Paul Krugman, who won a Nobel Prize in economics for his work on trade theory, seems the kind of person who might have a credible view on the various scenarios depicted by the very political Mark Carney’s report to the Treasury Committee. Krugman made some points on Twitter last night;
  • The Bank of England just released some very dire scenarios.
  • But their bad-case losses from a no-deal Brexit look extremely high. I mean, 8% of GDP was the kind of estimate we used to make for countries with 150 percent effective rates of protection.
  • I don’t understand how you can get that kind of cost without making some big ad hoc assumptions about productivity or something. And I have worried in all this about motivated reasoning on the part of people who oppose Brexit for the best of reasons.
  • As best I can tell, the big results depend on assumed relations between trade/FDI flows and productivity. It’s really important to understand that this channel does not follow from basic trade theory and comparative advantage; it’s a black-box story.
  • What we have are correlations between trade and investment flows and productivity that don’t really follow from standard models. Are these causal? There is surely room for skepticism. Yet that seems to be the big driver of the whole thing. So I’m worried.
  • Again, I’m anti-Brexit, and have no doubt that it will make Britain poorer. And the BoE could be right about the magnitude. But they’ve really gone pretty far out on a limb here.
Krugman is right, the UK is a globalised world class advanced industrial economy, not a third world small economy easily buffeted by adverse changes. The Treasury and the Bank of England were completely wrong in 2016 – predicting a recession and massive unemployment that never came. They are wrong this time too.


The UK Treasury has published another set of estimates of the impact of Brexit on the UK economy, claiming that in a ‘no deal’ scenario, UK GDP will be around 8% lower in the long term than it would have been if the UK remained in the EU.

If this looks to the casual observer like a big number, that is because it is. But can it be taken seriously? Simply put, no. It is a figure that fails to pass the most elementary ‘sniff test’. Below we show just how silly this projection is with reference to the UK’s experience in the Great Depression of the 1930s.

The 1930s depression was the most severe shock to hit the UK economy in the last century, featuring:
  • A huge demand shock to exports: world trade volume fell by 30% from 1929-32. UK export volume fell 40% from 1929-32.
  • A huge rise in trade costs: protectionist actions drove up the average world tariff by seven percentage points from 1929-31 to over 20% (this would have applied to around half of UK exports at the time). This understates the degree of protectionism because many countries brought in import quotas and restricted access to foreign currency (to buy imports with) too.
  • A massive financial shock: the UK stock market fell by 40% from 1929-32
  • A bad policy response: the UK authorities initially reacted to the slump by tightening fiscal policy and raising interest rates. Real interest rates (interest rates minus inflation) rose from 5% in 1928 to an eye-watering 10% by 1931.
d95c27e10fa1aa4ed9cdb5ce19461778.png

How big an effect did this shock have on long-term UK GDP, e.g. by 1938? To answer this, we need to guess what GDP ‘might have’ been in 1938 by projecting GDP in 1929 (before the shock) forwards using plausible ‘no depression’ growth rates. We choose three possible growth rates to do this projection –
  • Average UK growth from 1922-29 (2.9% per year)
  • Average UK growth from 1900-29 excluding WWI and the period just after it (2.2% per year)
  • Average UK growth for all years from 1900-29 (1.1% per year)
The results are visible in Chart 1. If you compare actual UK GDP in 1938 with the projected values using these growth rates, you can get an estimate of what the long-term effect of the depression was on UK GDP.

If we assume UK growth would have been 2.9% per year from 1929-38, then UK actual GDP in 1938 was around 8% below the ‘projected’ level. If we instead assume UK growth would have been 2.2% per year in a ‘no depression’ world, then actual UK GDP in 1938 was around 3% below the ‘projected’ level. Finally, if we assume UK growth would have been 1.1% per year in 1929-38 without the depression then actual UK GDP growth was actually about 8% higher than the projected level (see Chart 2).

8240902563431531f936211d37d63c40.png

So, in the first scenario we get a similar negative effect on UK GDP as the Treasury is now forecasting for a no deal Brexit. But this scenario used a very unrealistic estimate of what UK GDP growth would have looked like in the 1930s without the depression – the 1922-29 period was not only a global boom period but also saw the UK recovering from a deep recession after World War 1. The middle scenario, which yields a 3% long-term GDP loss by 1938, is far more realistic.

Moreover, the scale of the economic shock suffered by the UK in the 1930s was much bigger than any plausible Brexit-related shock could be. The depression tariff shock alone was double the equivalent shock the UK would suffer from moving to trading with the EU on WTO terms.

So, the Treasury’s 8% GDP loss for a ‘no deal’ Brexit is equivalent to the worst estimate you can make for long-term UK GDP losses after the worst financial and economic shock of the last century, and more than double more realistic estimates of the long-term GDP loss the UK suffered in the 1930s. It is very silly indeed. Many will think that it is worse than silly: that it is a deliberate attempt to mislead and alarm.
 
With May having won her no confidence vote, the pretend Brexit caravan will trundle on for another few years until, they hope, something bigger happens to make people forget all about it.

British politicians are, by definition, consumed with their own image as "politicians". They are, for the most part, leeches on the body public. Overpaid and under worked puppets who exist to create the impression of representative democracy, when no such thing actually exists in the Western world today. They therefore need lots of raw material that allows them to give the impression to the public that they are needed/useful/actually doing anything meaningful/not a bunch of freeloaders. That raw material is 'politics', drama, stuff happening in society that needs 'strong and stable' leadership, apparently. Otherwise, the House of Commons would quickly start to look like the House of Lords.

In that respect, 'Brexit' was, is and will continue to be, a godsend for UK politicians. From the beginning, not ONE of them actually thought it was implementable, but why look a gift horse in the mouth? 2.5 years of incessant disingenuous punditry, speculation, hand-wringing and dire warnings, not to mention first time TV appearances for many that would never have otherwise gotten a look in.

And now? Theresa May and the establishment party lives to fight another day (or rather, another 2 years of the 'transition period' plus a hefty extension on that). Tonight's pathetic deliberations in the House of Commons resulted in her winning the no confidence vote for one reason only - the only thing the Conservative establishment cares about - keeping Jeremy Corbyn out of 10 Downing street.

Brexit my ass.

Will of the people? You're 'avin a bleedin' laf!
 
Brexit my ass.

Will of the people? You're 'avin a bleedin' laf!

Another thing (speaking from the other side of the channel) is that Brexit created a whole cottage industry of Brexit experts/consultants and departments, producing studies, documents, media etc. Lots of money thrown at it. I mean, with nonsense like this, how can the West survive? There's still some strong things going for the Western economy, but the more this pathocratic, incompetent rule manifests, the more it will seal its fate. The end is nigh... With China, Russia and other upcoming nations not giving a flick about all that crap and just doing their thing pragmatically, they are bound to take over the world I guess. Everyone is still kind of pretending to take all that pretending seriously, but IMO, things are about to change, and perhaps dramatically so, once everyone had enough and stops pretending...
 
Another thing (speaking from the other side of the channel) is that Brexit created a whole cottage industry of Brexit experts/consultants and departments, producing studies, documents, media etc. Lots of money thrown at it.


Precisely, I work for an IT consultancy and there are more and more requirements for Brexit Project Managers, like this one: Brexit Project Manager - London - 06/12/2018 15:13:40

Most Project Manager contract roles pay within £400-550 bracket. This one pays £650 per day.

Not only are there more and more of those roles coming up, many of them require previous experience in managing Brexit projects. Sweet heaven. :rolleyes:
 
In that respect, 'Brexit' was, is and will continue to be, a godsend for UK politicians. From the beginning, not ONE of them actually thought it was implementable, but why look a gift horse in the mouth? 2.5 years of incessant disingenuous punditry, speculation, hand-wringing and dire warnings, not to mention first time TV appearances for many that would never have otherwise gotten a look in.

And now? Theresa May and the establishment party lives to fight another day (or rather, another 2 years of the 'transition period' plus a hefty extension on that).

Brexit - the most useful kayfabe story arc for the British government since the 'War on Terror' and 'Putin killed my baby'
 
Brexit continues to be a farce and Theresa May's proposal has been rejected. Tonight's vote was a topic of many conversations during the day. I yawned a lot. This is worse than a cheap grade C drama on Netflix.

Theresa May’s Brexit plan rejected by British parliament

The Brexit deal, painstakingly agreed upon with the EU by PM Theresa May last year, has ultimately flopped, as MPs said a firm no. The failure brings even more uncertainty to the fate of May’s cabinet and the whole Brexit process.

UK parliament voted down May’s Brexit plan on Tuesday by 432 votes to 202 – a margin of 230 – following lengthy debates on the matter. The vote was originally set to be held in mid-December, but was postponed amid fears that MPs would reject the unpopular deal between May and Brussels.

The delay failed to prompt any meaningful changes to aid the PM's cause, as it was ultimately rejected by parliament. The development comes just 10 weeks before the UK is set to leave the EU, bringing even more uncertainty to the already turbulent Brexit process.

Responding to the resounding defeat, May promised that her government "respects the will of the House" but said that it was her "duty to deliver" Brexit for British citizens who voted to leave the EU in 2016.

Every day that passes without a deal, May said, means "more uncertainty, more bitterness and more rancour." She said it was not her government's strategy to "run down the clock" to March 29, when the UK is scheduled to leave the EU, adding that she believes the best way to move forward is in an "orderly way."

May had earlier warned that a no-deal scenario made the prospect of a united Ireland, independent Scotland and ultimate breakup of the UK more likely. She called a no-deal scenario "the real threat to our union."

May admitted that it was now necessary to confirm if the House still has confidence in the government and said that if a motion of no confidence was tabled, it would be debated in parliament on Wednesday.

Standing to speak directly after May, Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn said the prime minister had suffered a “catastrophic defeat” and immediately tabled that motion of no confidence in her leadership.

Shortly after the vote, a spokesman for May said the government would be in contact with Brussels officials over the coming days and confirmed Downing Street had not ruled out a 'no deal' Brexit.

Shortly after the vote, a spokesman for May said the government would be in contact with Brussels officials over the coming days and confirmed Downing Street had not ruled out a 'no deal' Brexit.


Corbyn tables no confidence vote in May's Tory govt

Theresa May's Tory government is to face a vote of no confidence after the Labour Party, led by Jeremy Corbyn, tabled the motion following the PM's Brexit deal being voted down by parliament on Tuesday evening.
If May's government are defeated, which requires a majority of one in the house of commons, the UK prime minister will have 14 days to stay in office. A second confidence vote will then take place – failure to win such a vote would automatically trigger a general election.

Tabling the motion, Corbyn said that May had faced a "catastrophic defeat."
"Delay and denial has reached the end of the line,”
he said.

Corbyn said May had repeatedly failed the British people and failed to deliver on her promise to secure a good Brexit deal.
“She cannot seriously believe that after two years of failure, she is capable of negotiating a good deal for the people of this country," he said, adding that the "most important issue" facing the country is that the government has lost the confidence "of this House and this country."

May had earlier lashed out at Corbyn, accusing him of being "long on criticism and short on coherence."
It is expected that the vote of no confidence will take place at 7pm on Wednesday.

The main sticking point for May on the Brexit deal has been the contentious Irish backstop — a guarantee Dublin sought and won from Brussels that there will be no ‘hard’ border imposed on the island of Ireland when the UK leaves the EU. May had attempted to gain concessions from Brussels to assuage the fears of pro-Brexit Tories and Northern Irish DUP MPs who were unhappy with the backstop deal, but did not secure any legal changes.

After May’s deal was defeated on Tuesday evening, DUP MPs said they would still support her government in the no confidence vote on Wednesday, saying they never sought a change of government, but urged May once again to return to Brussels to get a better deal.
Scotland's first minister Nicola Sturgeon said that the Scottish National Party supported Corbyn's tabling of a no confidence motion, describing the vote as "a defeat of historic proportions" for May. Sturgeon accused the prime minister of wasting "valuable time" by delaying the vote in December when it was clear she did not have the support needed.

Sturgeon said the "only credible option" remaining was to hold a second Brexit referendum. That was also the only option that would "allow Scotland’s democratic wish to remain in Europe to be respected," she added.


Here's a tweet by Donald Tusk, the President of the EU Council:


Well, the only positive solution would be getting rid of the Tory government and finding someone who actually wants Brexit to deliver it. No?
 
It's a curious question; what exactly is the Brexiteers main motivation for leaving the EU? I've yet to discover a satisfactory answer. I know why I want to leave the yoke of the EU, but the politicians? It's all still foggy to me....:-/
 
It's a curious question; what exactly is the Brexiteers main motivation for leaving the EU? I've yet to discover a satisfactory answer. I know why I want to leave the yoke of the EU, but the politicians? It's all still foggy to me....:-/


Hey SlipNet, if you're asking about politicians, if they wanted to leave the UK would be happily out of the EU by now. That's why we've been witnessing this unentertaining farce for the past 3 years: the politicians don't want to leave but they put on a show saying they do want to "deliver the will of the people" - while doing everything they can not to deliver it.

They went ahead with the referendum and rigged the votes towards 'stay' to give people an illusion of democracy, but it didn't work. More people than they predicted actually voted 'leave'.

The below quote from the session of 16 July 2016 should give you an idea of what happened with Brexit:


(L) Was the real result of the Brexit vote for leaving or staying?

A: Leaving by a big majority.

Q: (Niall) So they rigged it to a more narrow margin... How come they changed the result to make it seem narrower?

A: Thought they would prevail.

Q: (L) So in other words, they thought that they were switching enough votes to stay, but they didn't.

(Pierre) So maybe they moved 10%, but it wasn't enough. So, they made a big, big fumble!

(Joe) Is this a general trend here that they're just screwing things up left, right, and center because they're getting desperate?

A: Wishful thinking loses.
 
Hey SlipNet, if you're asking about politicians, if they wanted to leave the UK would be happily out of the EU by now. That's why we've been witnessing this unentertaining farce for the past 3 years: the politicians don't want to leave but they put on a show saying they do want to "deliver the will of the people" - while doing everything they can not to deliver it.

Ahhh, thanks for the reminder there. I was beginning to suspect I was getting too cynical. I thought that it was feigned incompetence, and it turned out to be true enough. Gotta love the C's, they've given us more than we will ever figure out. Or maybe just enough, actually.;-D

I wish Farage was speaking out more today. He should be all over this. Watch this space, perhaps...
 
Ahhh, thanks for the reminder there. I was beginning to suspect I was getting too cynical. I thought that it was feigned incompetence, and it turned out to be true enough. Gotta love the C's, they've given us more than we will ever figure out. Or maybe just enough, actually.;-D

I wish Farage was speaking out more today. He should be all over this. Watch this space, perhaps...


In case it helps, Joe wrote a great article on Brexit: Brexit: A Political Farce Based on a Public Lie -- Sott.net
 
Here we go... they're talking about a second referendum. Maybe "Brexit means Brexit" should be conveyed to Theresa May in an interpretative dance for more clarity, but I don't think I'd like to be exposed to her response.


Brexit: 71 UK opposition Labour party lawmakers back second referendum – media

A group of 71 Labour MPs have written to party leader Jeremy Corbyn, urging him to drop his policy of reopening talks with the EU, telling him to instead get behind a second referendum to break the Brexit impasse in parliament.
The MPs claim that more Labour MPs will come in support of a ‘people's vote’ if the no-confidence vote in the government tabled by the Labour leader fails on Wednesday evening.

“We now face a moment of national crisis, where the facts and the views of many people have changed – and are continuing to change,” the MPs wrote.

“It is now clear renegotiation is not a realistic prospect."



One of the signatories to the letter is David Lammy, MP for Tottenham, who told the BBC earlier on Wednesday that Corbyn could “take ownership of the single worst policy decision in peacetime” or “be courageous, tell the truth to the British people.”

Labour's official Brexit policy keeps the option of a second referendum on the table if the party cannot secure a general election. However, it looks as though some MPs are becoming impatient and want Corbyn to commit to a people's vote immediately.
 
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