Are you a Jerk and oblivious to the fact?

Laura

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This is what Gurdjieff was saying years ago; this is what we've been talking about here on this forum for a very long time; fixing this is what The Work is about (to a great extent). So, here's yet another study and another angle on it:

Are you seen as jerk at work? A new study reveals that many people are oblivious to how they come across to counterparts and colleagues

http://www.sott.net/article/281166-Are-you-seen-as-jerk-at-work-A-new-study-reveals-that-many-people-are-oblivious-to-how-they-come-across-to-counterparts-and-colleagues

Jill Abramson was recently ousted from her position as the executive editor of The New York Times for being, among other things, too "pushy." But did Abramson - who has also been described by the media as "polarizing" and "brusque" - know during the course of her tenure that others viewed her as being overly assertive? A new study from the Columbia Business School suggests that there's a great chance she didn't.

"Finding the middle ground between being pushy and being a pushover is a basic challenge in social life and the workplace. We've now found that the challenge is compounded by the fact that people often don't know how others see their assertiveness," said Daniel Ames, professor of management at Columbia Business School and co - author of the new study. "In the language of Goldilocks, many people are serving up porridge that others see as too hot or too cold, but they mistakenly think the temperature comes across as just right - that their assertiveness is seen as appropriate. To our surprise, we also found that many people whose porridge was actually seen as just right mistakenly thought their porridge came off as too hot. That is, they were asserting themselves appropriately in the eyes of others, but they incorrectly thought they were pushing too hard."

Based in part on research previously conducted by Ames and former Columbia Business School Professor Frank Flynn, the new study is called, "Pushing in the Dark: Causes and Consequences of Limited Self-Awareness for Interpersonal Assertiveness" and will be published in Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin this month. In short, the research shows that many people seen by others as under - assertive or over - assertive think they're appropriately assertive. The study also reveals that people seen as getting assertiveness right often mistakenly think they've gotten it wrong.

The Research

Ames and fellow researcher Abbie Wazlawek - a doctoral student at Columbia Business School - conducted four studies to test their hypotheses about the connection between assertiveness and self - awareness. Three of the four studies involved participants who were MBA students enrolled in negotiation courses at Columbia Business School, and one study involved an online survey of 500 US adults.

The MBA student studies paired up developing professionals for mock negotiations over issues such as licensing rights. After the deal - making, each person answered questions about their own assertiveness and their counterpart's assertiveness. The negotiators were then asked to guess what their counterpart said about them. A key question for the researchers was whether people knew what their counterparts thought of them.

The Results

The studies found that, generally speaking, negotiators have a lot of work to do in the self - awareness department. For example, one study found that:

57 percent of people actually seen by their counterpart as under - assertive thought they had come across as appropriately assertive or even over - assertive.
56 percent of people actually seen by their counterpart as over - assertive thought they had come across as appropriately assertive or even under - assertive.
Together, these results suggest that people seen as getting assertiveness wrong in the eyes of others had about a coin - flip's chance of recognizing how they were seen.

"Most people can think of someone who is a jerk or a pushover and largely clueless about how they're seen," said Ames. "Sadly, our results suggest that, often enough, that clueless jerk or pushover is us."

The researchers were surprised to discover another pattern in their results. Ames and Wazlawek found that many people getting assertiveness right mistakenly thought they were seen as pushing too hard. In multiple studies, Ames and Wazlawek observed a good share of people displaying what they called the "line crossing illusion." These people believed that they came across as being too assertive - or had crossed a line - during negotiations, when in fact their counterparts saw them as being appropriately assertive.

While the "line crossing illusion" might seem like a harmless or even endearing mistake, Ames and Wazlawek showed that it can be costly. Those who mistakenly thought they had over - asserted themselves were more likely to try to repair relationships with their partners, sometimes agreeing to a less valuable subsequent deal just to smooth things over. As the researchers put it, these negotiators were attempting costly repairs for something that wasn't broken. The result was that both sides frequently lost out on what could have been a better deal.
 
Thanks for posting this, Laura, quite interesting.

I wonder though, why this is the way it is - why do we get the assessment of our own assertiveness so wrong? Does it just tie in with the general picture of what is going on around us, that the majority "doesn't get what's going on in the world"? Or are specific factors at play here? Were there any gender differences?

It will be interesting to read the study once it's published.
 
I remember when I was told I was a jerk (not exactly the term that was used). It was a comment on my overall behavior towards family and close friends over time. It was very difficult to hear, but what was worse was realizing how true it was. I had to do some serious searching to figure out why I treated the people closest to me the worst. I was totally oblivious to how I was coming across to others. My perception of myself was so different from how others perceived me. It truly was a shock to hear it, but it ended up being a gift, since my lack of awareness meant I had no idea I was a jerk to those close to me.
 
nicklebleu said:
Thanks for posting this, Laura, quite interesting.

I wonder though, why this is the way it is - why do we get the assessment of our own assertiveness so wrong? Does it just tie in with the general picture of what is going on around us, that the majority "doesn't get what's going on in the world"? Or are specific factors at play here? Were there any gender differences?

It will be interesting to read the study once it's published.

It occurred to me, after reading the bolded question above, that due to the scrambled situation of the centers in an "average joe", just as G taught, this is the case. In my experience observing other humans, 'introspection' is a rare attribute. People just don't seem to have a thorough knowledge of themselves, or the desire to aquire it, which would naturally include awareness of others' perception of them, OSIT.

Kris
 
obyvatel said:

Indeed. And related in another way:
https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,35267.0.html

and: https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,19024.0.html

Then, there's Timothy Wilson's book "Strangers to Ourselves" and Kahnemann's "Thinking: Fast and Slow" and Gladwell's "Blink".

With all the research coming along that can help us to understand some of Gurdjieff's ideas better and with scientific backing, it is still surprising to see people who are engaged in "The Work", or so they say, falling into these errors.
 
I am cringing each time I recall being a jerk to someone.
It took me a long time to realize that what I thought was a normal way of interacting with people was in fact completely wrong. Then I was really wondering why that person did not like me for example.
I guess if I had really apologized things would have been different but I wasn't able to see myself clearly or just even think for a moment how the other person could feel because of my behavior.
I guess it takes time to un-jerk yourself.
 
Tigersoap said:
I guess if I had really apologized things would have been different but I wasn't able to see myself clearly or just even think for a moment how the other person could feel because of my behavior.

The bolded part, put together, is what this link is about: https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,35267.0.html . It seems that we are programmed to be jerks in all sorts of ways, to believe our own lies about ourselves, to think that we can really see and think. It really is a huge blind-spot in the mind.

Tigersoap said:
I guess it takes time to un-jerk yourself.

It's not just that it takes time, what it really takes is being able to fully, viscerally, acknowledge this way the mind works. The minute you do, it will sort of make you feel frantic: "What?! I can't SEE things as they really are?! I can't trust my own mind, thoughts, perceptions, opinions?!" That is a terrible moment. It's horrifying that you have to realize that you have been so programmed and conditioned by your upbringing that you literally are blind to a lot of reality.

So, getting there is the first step.

Mme. De Salzmann's essay about the first initiation is about encouraging a person to just accept this and try to see it, but I'm not sure that a person can do that unless and until they have some sort of bankruptcy moment and realize that, yet again, people are criticizing them, rejecting them, hurting them, etc etc, and they just don't know why. They may say inside "why is this always happening to me? Not again!" and the agonized System 1 will demand that System 2 make a narrative to explain it, to get them off the hook, to make sure that the blame is someone else's. Gurdjieff's discussion of External considering versus Internal considering is exactly about this.
 
I am a jerk. My 12 step program is in progress.

Seriously however, I find what helps me is the old ethic of reciprocity, "do unto others as you would have others do unto you."

I try very, very hard to be aware of the needs of those around me, and to mold my behaviour to be supportive and positive. Of course, being in a management position it's that much more prevalent, but even in everyday life I find it a worthwhile endeavor.

For me sometimes it's as simple as looking people in the eyes when they're talking, instead of typing an email or watching TV or .... it's a real force of will to STOP and just pay attention to someone!

And the strange thing for me is the more I try to behave that way (I'm sure there are lapses I don't even notice) the more I notice other people NOT behaving that way; so many people are wrapped up in their own problems and situations that they have no consideration for those around them. It's perhaps not even intentional: The person who cuts someone else off in traffic because they're in a hurry, the person who leaves their cart in the middle of the aisle blocking everyone else because they just have to grab that one thing off the shelf...you get the idea.

I also find it's improved my moods substantially. I used to get very angry, now I tend to be much more zen about things. Arguments could be made about what caused what, but the end result is still the same.

I don't know if anyone else has seen it this way...?
 
After reading the article the first thing I thought about was how in my last job I was totally under the sway of an over-assertive coworker. Winning every discussion with fast-talk, and by the rule: Since I have the strongest opinions and have talked more about the subject than you, I am right.
It usually manifested itself in a sudden reaction to a problem, which had to be solved NOW by any way necessary. While I usually argued that we should think things through so we would not create more problems, later if the decision was wrong.

I of course disliked this over-assertive approach since It made me feel hijacked in every decision making. I thought a lot about how it was even possible to be such a jerk and what the motivations might lie behind the actions of the coworker, thinking, if only that person would change all would be better.

Funny thing is that I after some time saw that I would often use the exact same tactics towards friends and family, and it was all about feeling in control and in action, and whatever it was, as long as I got my way I felt active and that I participated in a great way towards the cause. Being a jerk didn`t even occur to me, I had the answer to the problem after all.

Laura said:
It's not just that it takes time, what it really takes is being able to fully, viscerally, acknowledge this way the mind works. The minute you do, it will sort of make you feel frantic: "What?! I can't SEE things as they really are?! I can't trust my own mind, thoughts, perceptions, opinions?!" That is a terrible moment. It's horrifying that you have to realize that you have been so programmed and conditioned by your upbringing that you literally are blind to a lot of reality.

So, getting there is the first step.

On the occasions when these understandings really hit my gut, another sneaky feeling or thought usually approaches: “But what about ME? Where do I fit in?”
It`s kind of comical when you read about not being your own master and still trying to place your old self in the new paradigm, osit.
 
57 percent of people actually seen by their counterpart as under - assertive thought they had come across as appropriately assertive or even over - assertive.
56 percent of people actually seen by their counterpart as over - assertive thought they had come across as appropriately assertive or even under - assertive.
Together, these results suggest that people seen as getting assertiveness wrong in the eyes of others had about a coin - flip's chance of recognizing how they were seen.

The article that commented on the research started off by mentioning Jill Abramson's recent loss of her editorship .I've known women become the subjects of totally unfair comments about their assertiveness merely for daring to be as assertive as the complaining males, and in particular two female colleagues who had to live with names like "pushy", "polarizing" and "brusque" and worse to get anything at all achieved in their work environments. The factors responsible for problems of this sort haven't really been taken into account by the researchers who seemed to be assuming 'honest' responses from their subjects.

If the aim of this research was mostly to show up how blind we are to another's perceptions of ourself then fair enough. It may be a bit flawed if it is trying to say anything about appropriate levels of assertiveness as they relied upon the assessments of assertiveness made by the other party in the negotiations. So maybe an under-assertive person sees even an appropriately assertive person as over assertive, and conversely the over assertive person has a similarly inappropriate view. This situation would give you the 50-50 split wouldn't it? The study should have had a third-person observer with some sort of check list to identify those people behaving appropriately to the needs of the situation they were in.


On a different note, I like to try quote this from "To A Louse" by Robert Burns though I fail dismally over the Scots dialect.
(Taken from the wiki at _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_a_Louse)


O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion:
What airs in dress an' gait wad lea'e us,
An' ev'n devotion!


That gave the spelling checker a fit.
More prosaically, in English:

And would some Power the small gift give us
To see ourselves as others see us!
It would from many a blunder free us,
And foolish notion:
What airs in dress and gait would leave us,
And even devotion!
 
Interesting, as a coworker yesterday had sent that same study to our team. I think that I am an under-assertive type, (which may mean that I'm assertive enough?). I usually am not direct enough and let people have the upper hand without saying what I want to say. Oh, and I'm sure I'm seen as a jerk sometimes too.

I think you have to see how people respond to you or what they implicitly think about you. At work, we all know our team and their personality. Ask yourself, "What role do I play? Am I the joker, the serious one?", etc. And even into what personal info you may know about someone. We all share our stories and get to know each other over time. I guess it's just hard for some to see the mirror even through others.
 
RflctnOfU said:
People just don't seem to have a thorough knowledge of themselves, or the desire to aquire it, which would naturally include awareness of others' perception of them, OSIT.

More than just include awareness of others' perception of us, it seems that the only really reliable way to 'see' ourselves is through the eyes of others. Of course, it is crucial to find 'others' who can be relied on to give objective feedback. That's why a network like this one is indispensable to the Work on the self.
 
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