Algerian and Morrocan Descendants and Immigrant Protests/Riots in France
- Thread starter Olivierlejardinier
- Start date
That likely amplified it, and also the anti-Muslim tone set by the post-9/11 'War on Terror' in general. It was another decade before the first major 'Islamist' terror attacks in France, but in the meantime the first major eruption in France of multi-city, urban 'tribal' rage occurred in 2005, seemingly out of the blue.
In that case the cops were merely investigating a break-in, several nearby (and presumably uninvolved) teens scattered to avoid interrogation, but hid inside an electrical power-station and got fried.
The riots began in Paris but spread to other major cities, Chirac declared a State of Emergency that lasted 3 weeks, more than 8,000 vehicles were burned, and around 2,760 individuals arrested.
Yep. People tend to forget. But we've "been there done that" a few times already in France over the last 20 years. Until the rioters form themselves into a standing army and declare a "special military operation" to demilitarize France, I'll just wait until this one blows over too.
There clearly is a lot of "anticipation" among people, at least on social media, for "something big" to happen. This seems to make them respond to otherwise "normal" events with more excitement than usual. There's also the mainstream media and social media "clickbait" aspect, where the media and people amplify the nature of events to get attention (and therefore money).
'Is France on the brink of a civil war?'
www.rt.com
30 Jun, 2023
www.rt.com
1 Jul, 2023
French police demand government acts, threaten ‘resistance’
Paris needs to crack down on “wild hordes” of rioters to save the French republic, the law enforcement unions have said
Rioters loot gun store in Marseille – media
Attacks on police precincts and an armory were reported on the fourth night of riots in France
Le terme islamophobie est-il vraiment le cheval de Troie des Frères musulmans en France ?
L'essayiste Isabelle Kersimon, qui a contribué au prochain ouvrage de Georges Bensoussan, 'Une France Soumise, les voix du refus' (Albin Michel) revient sur la manipulation intégriste dans le débat public
fr.timesofisrael.com
Le terme islamophobie est-il vraiment le cheval de Troie des Frères musulmans en France ?
L'essayiste Isabelle Kersimon, qui a contribué au prochain ouvrage de Georges Bensoussan, 'Une France Soumise, les voix du refus' (Albin Michel) revient sur la manipulation intégriste dans le débat public
Par PIERRE-SIMON ASSOULINE
L'essayiste Isabelle Kersimon lors d'un passage sur LCI (Crédit: capture d'écran)
A l’occasion de la sortie du livre « Une France soumise, les voix du refus » dirigé par Georges Bensoussan et préfacé par Elisabeth Badinter, l’essayiste Isabelle Kersimon explique comment l’apparition du terme « islamophobie », concept en forme de cheval de Troie des Frères musulman selon elle, a aussi occulté le véritable rejet anti-musulman et le « racisme d’antan » toujours actuel.
Times of Israel : Quel est l’objectif du prochain livre de Georges Bensoussan auquel vous avez contribué ?
Isabelle Kersimon : Il s’agit d’une poursuite de ses travaux parus en 2002 : « Les territoires perdus de la République ». Dans ce nouvel opus, il a décidé de donner la parole à toutes les personnes confrontées à l’intégrisme musulman et aux revendications salafistes. Plusieurs témoignages de policiers, professeurs ont ainsi été recueillis et complétés par d’autres contributions. Le livre présente aussi le témoignage de citoyens qui se battent contre ce phénomène, pour défendre la laïcité.
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Vous décrivez de manière édifiante le passage dans l’imagination collective, de « la beurette en proie à la discrimination raciale » dans les années 90, à la « jeune fille voilée victime d’islamophobie » contemporaine.
Rappelez-vous l’état d’esprit fraternel qui régnait dans le milieu des années 80 et durant la « Marche des beurs ». Les slogans clamaient « Nous sommes des Français issus de l’immigration maghrébine » (le slogan du groupe « Convergence 1984 » était « La France, c’est comme une mobylette, pour avancer, il lui faut du mélange »- Ndlr). Et c’est vrai : il y avait un racisme effectif en France, contre ces immigrés algériens ayant grandi dans des cités, on disait des « quartiers » à l’époque, et provenant de familles modestes constituées d’une mère au foyer et d’un père ouvrier. Mais ils se battaient pour faire valoir qu’ils étaient Français. Pas contre la France.
Ces jeunes filles qu’on appelait « Beurettes » étaient victimes de racisme. Et ce racisme existe encore, mais il n’est pas ce que les intégristes nomment « islamophobie ». Le concept « d’islamophobie » c’est autre chose, c’est une tentative de manipulation.
Un concept auquel vous dévouez une partie importante de votre temps, puisque, en plus de votre activité d’essayiste, vous êtes rédactrice en chef du site Islamophobie.org. Pourquoi tant d’attention ?
Le terme d’islamophobie avait disparu du débat public pendant plusieurs décennies. Il est réapparu en France après la révolution islamique iranienne. C’est le prédicateur Tariq Ramadan qui, le premier, « popularise » le terme en citant un rapport universitaire dans le Monde diplomatique, dirigé par un Alain Gresh largement acquis sinon à ses thèses, du moins à sa personnalité charismatique. « On peut même parler d’une sorte d’islamophobie, selon le titre de la précieuse étude commandée en Grande-Bretagne par le Runnymede Trust », écrit Ramadan.
Tariq Ramadan (Crédit : capture d’écran YouTube)
Depuis le concept a gagné en popularité. Mais c’est un terme à tiroir renfermant plusieurs objectifs: celui de faire passer toute « la » communauté musulmane (alors qu’elle est éminemment plurielle) pour une victime de l’Occident, et aussi celui de faire plier la République sur l’émancipation des femmes, la laïcité et la liberté d’expression.
Vous décrivez les anti-racistes des années 90 et 2000 comme des acteurs parfois passifs parfois actifs ayant l’air un peu dépassés face à l’apparition de la propagande frériste dans leurs rangs.
Le combat anti-raciste a été repris en main par les Frères musulmans. S’il existe un débat légitime sur la discrimination sociale et ethnique, il s’avérera par la suite que ce combat-là a été le lieu où ils se sont installés. C’est par là qu’ils ont gagné leur légitimité dans le débat public français et c’est la raison pour laquelle ils sont tellement invités dans les médias. Je précise que j’appelle intégriste le fait d’utiliser une idéologie à des faits politiques. Un des objectifs actuels de ces mouvances est de faire abroger la loi de 2004 et 2010 afin de « libérer la cause » du voilement intégral et du voilement des mineures.
Et les acteurs anti-racistes ont laissé faire ?
Pas tous, non. Il y a eu des clashs. En 2005, Antoine Spire a quitté la Ligue des droits de l’Homme lorsqu’elle a commencé à lutter « contre l’islamophobie aux côtés de Tariq Ramadan, de Mouloud Aounit et d’autres. Mais cela s’est fait progressivement et habilement.
Même Malek Boutih, qu’on aurait du mal à qualifier de conciliant avec ces idéologies s’est fait avoir avant de revenir sur ses déclarations. Ramadan n’a pas réussi à convaincre toute la gauche anti-raciste. Il y a eu aussi des clashs au Mrap. Il existe un grand désaccord, aujourd’hui encore, entre les militants.
Que pensez-vous des propos tenus par Georges Benssoussan lors d’une émission présentée par Alain Finkielkraut (« Dans les familles arabes, en France, et tout le monde le sait mais personne ne veut le dire, l’antisémitisme, on le tète avec le lait de la mère ») qui lui vaut un procès sur une initiative du CCIF ?
Je n’aurais pas dit les choses comme lui, mais on lui fait un mauvais procès. Cet homme n’est pas raciste. Mohamemd Sifaoui a écrit quelque chose de semblable en 2014 sur le Huffington Post sans qu’un tel débat n’ait lieu. C’est injuste et même dégueulasse, excusez-moi du mot, d’attaquer Bensoussan, car on salit un homme et son intégrité, en tentant de le faire passer pour ce qu’il n’est pas.
Je dois ajouter que j’ai interviewé Abdelgani Merah, le frère de Mohammed Merah à ce sujet : il raconte bien avoir baigné, durant toute son enfance, dans un antisémitisme virulent. C’est une réalité qu’on doit prendre à bras le corps.
Is the term Islamophobia really the Trojan horse of the Muslim Brotherhood in France?
The essayist Isabelle Kersimon, who contributed to the next book by Georges Bensoussan, 'A Submissive France, the voices of refusal' (Albin Michel) returns to the fundamentalist manipulation in the public debate
By PIERRE-SIMON ASSOULINE
January 17, 2017, 5:30 PM
Essayist Isabelle Kersimon during an appearance on LCI (Credit: screenshot)
On the occasion of the release of the book "A France submitted, the voices of refusal" directed by Georges Bensoussan and prefaced by Elisabeth Badinter, the essayist Isabelle Kersimon explains how the appearance of the term "Islamophobia", a concept in the form of a horse of Troy of the Muslim Brotherhood, according to her, has also obscured the real anti-Muslim rejection and the "racism of yesteryear" which is still current.
Times of Israel: What is the goal of the next book by Georges Bensoussan to which you have contributed?
Isabelle Kersimon: This is a continuation of her work published in 2002: “The Lost Territories of the Republic”. In this new opus, he has decided to give a voice to all those confronted with Muslim fundamentalism and Salafist demands. Several testimonies from police officers and teachers were thus collected and supplemented by other contributions. The book also presents the testimony of citizens who fight against this phenomenon, to defend secularism.
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You describe in an edifying way the passage in the collective imagination, from “the beurette plagued by racial discrimination” in the 90s, to the contemporary “veiled girl victim of Islamophobia”.
Remember the fraternal state of mind that reigned in the mid-80s and during the “Marche des beurs”. The slogans proclaimed "We are French people from North African immigration" (the slogan of the "Convergence 1984" group was "France is like a moped, to move forward, it needs some mixture" - Editor's note). And it's true: there was effective racism in France, against these Algerian immigrants who grew up in estates, we said "neighbourhoods" at the time, and who came from modest families made up of a mother at home and a a working father. But they were fighting to assert that they were French. Not against France.
These young girls who were called "Beurettes" were victims of racism. And this racism still exists, but it is not what fundamentalists call “Islamophobia”. The concept of “Islamophobia” is something else, it is an attempt at manipulation.
A concept to which you devote a significant part of your time, since, in addition to your activity as an essayist, you are editor-in-chief of the Islamophobia.org site. Why so much attention?
The term Islamophobia had disappeared from public debate for several decades. It reappeared in France after the Iranian Islamic Revolution. It was the preacher Tariq Ramadan who was the first to "popularize" the term by citing an academic report in Le Monde diplomatique, led by an Alain Gresh who was largely won over, if not to his theses, at least to his charismatic personality. “We can even speak of a kind of Islamophobia, according to the title of the valuable study commissioned in Britain by the Runnymede Trust,” writes Ramadan.
Tariq Ramadan (Credit: YouTube screenshot)
Since then the concept has grown in popularity. But it is a loose term containing several objectives: that of making the whole "Muslim community" (although it is eminently plural) pass for a victim of the West, and also that of making the Republic bend to the emancipation of women, secularism and freedom of expression.
You describe the anti-racists of the 90s and 2000s as sometimes passive, sometimes active actors who seemed a bit overwhelmed by the appearance of Brotherhood propaganda in their ranks.
The anti-racist fight has been taken over by the Muslim Brotherhood. If there is a legitimate debate about social and ethnic discrimination, it will later turn out that this fight was where they settled. This is how they gained their legitimacy in the French public debate and this is the reason why they are so invited in the media. I specify that I call fundamentalist the fact of using an ideology to political facts. One of the current objectives of these movements is to have the law of 2004 and 2010 repealed in order to “liberate the cause” of integral veiling and veiling of minors.
And the anti-racist actors let it happen?
Not all of them, no. There were clashes. In 2005, Antoine Spire left the League for Human Rights when it began to fight “against Islamophobia alongside Tariq Ramadan, Mouloud Aounit and others. But it happened
Obviously, each one of those events can be found on past shows, Sign of the Times, and the sessions.
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From two years ago. Was he wrong?
The president took aim at American social science ideas that focus on race.
"I don’t agree with a fight that reduces everyone to their identity or their particularity" he said
www.scmp.com
The president took aim at American social science ideas that focus on race.
"I don’t agree with a fight that reduces everyone to their identity or their particularity" he said
Macron blames imported US ideas for France becoming ‘racialised’
The president took aim at American social science ideas that focus on race.
www.scmp.com
Yeah, the Anglos are very bad at "reading" France (and often project their own stuff, not to mention that hardly a day passes without the twitterati proclaiming another apocalypse).
The thing is, there is a strong "Gaulliste" undercurrent in France, even among parts of the elite, something that the idiots in think tankistan call "anti-americanism". It's just that the US controls the media, and has tentacles in other organisations, so that this sentiment is not visible and can't really express itself freely. But it's there and it's brewing.
But there's also the Muslim terror psyop, the old problems with the banlieus and old and new immigrant groups. Add Covid, economic problems, the Ukraine disaster, the pension reforms, inflation... It's a pretty explosive mix.
I lean towards "well that's just France" too for the moment, but at some point I think it's possible that things might get more... interesting. This police union presser is an indication. But I suppose for things to get really out of hand you would need a faction among the elite getting involved and trying to get police and military on board for some craziness, or something like that. Probably unlikely at the moment.
Well, I beg to differ. There have been an huge order of law enforcement equipment.
Maintien de l’ordre : un appel d'offres de 38 millions d’euros de grenades
Le ministère de l'Intérieur a lancé le 10 novembre son plus important appel d'offres depuis des années afin d'équiper police et gendarmerie en grenades et accessoires. Parmi elles : les grenades assourdissantes et les lacrymogènes instantanées.
www.politis.fr
(Unfortunately, I'm not able to find back the call to the police to be moderate in this case, so let's put that aside)
And here, we learn that "In addition, a group of around thirty masked and hooded individuals, claiming to be "anti-breakers", put "flex-bands around the wrists" of some of the youngsters, before presenting them to the police, reports a witness."
So, a group of ordinary citizen manage to do what trained policemen fail to ?
In all the video that are on the internet, I didn't see any water canon for example. In many of them, despite subtitles claiming "violent clashes between rioters and police", all you see is some fireworks or rioters and police at distance just waiting. Very different attitudes than against demonstrators.
The overall impression for me is "laisser faire"
Well, wait and see...
What a good excuse they have for saying that all the military and police equipment has gone to Ukraine! The perfect excuse to get money for new equipment. They're not crazy. Once again, this excuse is the same as what the other countries are saying, the same speech: All the countries have decided that they are short of equipment (it seems to me impossible) and God's excuse is Ukraine. Ukraine is perfect for so many things...
plenty of Aks in Marseille.
Olivierlejardinier
Jedi Council Member
Not just in Marseille, France is like the rest of the world, it's nothing new, with enough money one can get any sort of weapon.
A quick search in the news brings several cases where firing automatic weapons was involved, from december 2022 to early june 2023, not in riots though.
Just to clarify. My comment was satire.