A conman punched me but the headache comes from within

[theokonst]

I want to share it with you guys,I haven t slept enough hours these days and after this incident I m exausted!
I ll try to give you the whole picture.
I have a friend that her name is S.About a year ago,she met from facebook a guy whose name is D.he is about 45 divorced with daughter.
S. is very kind and passive person who has lost her father during her adolescence and from then she is having very hard times emotionally and economically.
When she met him,he was giving her his atm cards asking from her to check his money in the bank and she was seeing 400.000€ and high amounts like that.(they werent his money!)
So the day came that he asked from her to lend him 10.000 € that she got from a loan.
She came to me and told me that she wanted to go away from him but she was afraid that if she did this,she would lost her money..
After about 2 months they told me that she was pregnant!!!("nice"tactic huh?)
So me and D. many times got together for a coffee or a drink..
I have heard him many times mentioning his con attitude towards others.
All these binded with a lot of "spirituality"..his is a member of a yogic ashram and he always talks for these things..sadly S. bought into these....
So last week for the first time he asked me to lend him 36€ because his card had problems...he said that he would give me the money after a few hours...the same the next day and the same the other day..
It is not for the amount ,36€ its nothing but thinking that he was unjust even with me I decided to send an inbox to S.'s fb and tell her that her man is a conman even with me..
She sarcasticly replied me "ohh you got too into the row of the people that he is in debt"
And then we talked about how he managed to make her a baby and how ,without having the ability to feel ,pretends of caring for his 2 daughters.
I also told S. that he told me that he would take their daughter and dissapear if she fight with him again.S. told me that they never fought those days...
The other day,i received an inbox from him..he said that he would not give me the money because i was a sissy of talking to his wife.He also made a threat that if I would continue this thing,he would come to my job and smash everything!
About 5 days passed and today as I was walking a saw him sitting in a coffee shop with his laptop.
Quite automatically I came near him and in front a few people I said to him that he is a conman and for a tiny amount he got to all this trouble.he stood up and took a glass of water to break it to stab me.
He did nothing because I stepped back and started to leave from there.
He started shouting that I was a sissy for leaving.
I felt the pressure of the staring of the people and from shame I turned again to him.
He suddenly punched me at the face twice!
I wanted to run but I felt humiliated.I walked away from him and he continued to shout.
He started following me and as he was behind me I punched him in the face holdind my motorcycle key!!
He started bleedind and I went to some people there asking from them to help me find my glasses because they fell with the punches before and I couldnt see!
No one helped me and I was afraid to go there to search because D. Was there.
Some people told me that he took my glasses.I called the police but they never came,I phoned them again after 20 minutes and they told me to go the police station.
I went there but I didn t sue him because I know that he would see it as a chalenge.
I dont want to write more because it will get lengthy.There are some details that show me that he will never forget that I called him conman infront of S.'s relatives.I just told the truth and the thruth might make S. leave him.
I think that without reading the psycopathy material, I would be in a far worse emotional turmoil right now.I know that it doesnt deserve to expend my energy to attitudes like D's.
The things that freaks me out is that I lost my temper and went to him knowing that I wouldnt earn something,I Punched him with a key and made him bleed!!he took my glasses and I ll never get them back,I got humiliated to other people and also I m afraid of harassing me!
I m 33 and i have not any experience with things like that,I mean how to avoid them or to be rational or not to be bothered.
For many years I thought that I was some kind of special being ,clean from the worlds dirt and my spiritual seeking was enforcing this thesis.
I would dig my anger within or other non sweet feelings.
I m like an 8 year old that has no actual experience with the world outside!
Today I watched myself one more time behaving like a baby!
And also is this...ok I should grow up with patience,I know far more things I could even imagine some years ago but am I doing this right?my sweet feelings are gone,I m many times crabby,cynical and critical to myself and others!
My father was always critical to me and now I see that I m like him.
From child I was avoiding my fathers role but now I see that I have his dna and I should recocnize it in me to get further.
I dont know nothing how to cope with negative feelings.sometime I used to repeat a mantra and after a while everything was ok...now with situations like the above I feel poison running through my veins!
I hope that I didn t get tiresome!
I would like to have some objective feedback guys!

 

[whitecoast]

:( I'm so sorry to hear about the traumatic confrontation you had with the conman. Have you been able to practice EE since the attack to help calm yourself down?

Were you able to get the names of witnesses of the attack, to use against him later? I know you said you were afraid of challenging him, but if you don't get the law involved I think you would have less recourse and less ability to protect S, since less will be on record with his behavior. But it can be understood if you don't want to at this time.

I understand you think you handled the situation terribly, but you did the best you could with what you knew and felt. You obviously care enough about S to put yourself between her and disaster.

 

[theokonst]

I ve just finished doing pipe breathing,I was denying myself all day to do anything-pipe breathing,meditation,plain breathing.This denial comes natural from within lately.
Its like that inside me is a program that wants to feel that can succed without an external help.I was always using something to alleviate my suffering.now there is this denial.
I felt to do pipe breathing after I wrote this post.Imediately my breath got deeper and I felt connected with my body.
I just reported the incident to the police,in no way I want to irritate him,he defies the authorities!
I hope that he ll forget but from some facts,I doubt it... :/

"but you did the best you could with what you knew and felt"
( I m sorry for not inserting quotes,I m writing from my tablet and is difficult to do it)
Whitecoast,if punching that guy holding my key in my fist ,is all that I know,then it is something really to worry about.in addition as I was driving my car before and doing a few pipe breathing,I realized that some part of me was pleased of punching him...ok,maybe is natural to have all these things inside me and now I start recognising them.the really freaky part is that I m realizing that nothing is for granted inside me,in other words reaching sto needs constant and copious efforts.and always in my life until now I ve been doing litle efforts.
"you obviously care enough about S to put yourself between her and disaster"
I m not very sure for this,I do not have much data For my self to admit that it was trully altruistic..
Thank you whitecoast!

 

[Z...]

Hi Ulyssess, here is my 2cents FWIW...
What you did is understandable - you got pulled into the whirlpool of of psychopaths frequency and resonated accordingly.
Rather then examining your reactions I think you should examine your emotional investment in S. and also D.

 

[theokonst]

Herr Eisenheim thank you for answer,
could you explain a bit what do you mean by the emotional investment you speak?

 

[Z...]

What is the exact nature of your relationship with her? What are the emotions that drive "friendship" with her.
How did she come into your life, how long have you known her and what importance this relationship has in your life...etc.
That sort of thing.

You are clearly emotionally invested in this relationship. Meaning you are driven and reacting for emotional center. This has gotten you into trouble. So perhaps its time to examine these emotions and their value in your life.

 

[theokonst]

What is the exact nature of your relationship with her? What are the emotions that drive "friendship" with her.
How did she come into your life, how long have you known her and what importance this relationship has in your life...etc.
That sort of thing.

You are clearly emotionally invested in this relationship. Meaning you are driven and reacting for emotional center. This has gotten you into trouble. So perhaps its time to examine these emotions and their value in your life.

Ok, I got it,I 'll come back as soon as I can because its 1:00am in my country and need sleep.
Thank you.

 

[obyvatel]

Hi Ulysses11,

Sorry to hear about this unpleasant experience. As an aftermath of this physical encounter, you seem to be beating yourself up mentally and emotionally. This thread on self compassion may be useful to you. You may wish to look at this event as an opportunity to learn more about yourself and pathological people.

The man D does show psychopathic characteristics. You friend S seems to have some awareness of the reality of this man. It is her choice whether to continue her relationship with such a person or not. Herr Eisenheim's question about your involvement in this situation is worth exploring.

Something about dealing with pathological people may be apparent to you now. Treat this objectively as a lesson learned without criticizing and shaming yourself. You confronted a bully directly in an emotional state and pretty much picked a fight with him. You were pretty much playing his game and chances of a beneficial outcome for you in such a situation is almost zero. Things could have been worse if the police came - from eye witness reports it would look like you instigated the whole thing.

You cannot shame a real psychopath or those who have such tendencies or put sense in them. Only thing you can do is to learn to recognize signs that such people give out and get out of the way. You can also encourage others who are willing and interested to recognize such signs and get educated about psychopathy. In some situations, exposing them publicly could be useful but you have to develop a lot of skill and control over yourself as well as knowledge about such issues to do so effectively and efficiently.

Hope this helps. fwiw

 

[kenlee]

Quite automatically I came near him and in front a few people I said to him that he is a conman and for a tiny amount he got to all this trouble.he stood up and took a glass of water to break it to stab me.
He did nothing because I stepped back and started to leave from there.
He started shouting that I was a sissy for leaving.
I felt the pressure of the staring of the people and from shame I turned again to him.
He suddenly punched me at the face twice!
I wanted to run but I felt humiliated.I walked away from him and he continued to shout.

Note here where you said "quite automatically." At this point you entered 'D's game on his terms and he had the control of your "centerline." In other words, his movements now controlled your movements, not only physically but psychologically as well (that is, he had you "psyched out"). He moves this way then you move that way. Your movements are controlled and are a function of his movements and not the other way around. He was in control and knew it at the moment you walked in to the coffee shop. Whatever card you played he knew he had a better hand since once you hesitated when you called him a conman, and didn't immediately clobber him on the spot (I'm NOT suggesting here that you should have done this) then he knew he had you since he knew that you would stop when it came to violence, so he called your bluff on it and upped the anty to a (potentially) violent confrontation. Then you hesitated due to doubt since you knew deep down that you might have contributed to the genesis of this confrontation, however he has no such inhibitions like this due to what certainly appears to be his psychopathic nature. Then he immediately followed thru with his next move and the physical confrontation began.

Excellent advice already given by the comments made here on this thread. Part of you may have genuinely wanted to help 'S' but imo it was mixed with narcissistic "I'm gonna be a tough guy" program. That I think, this narcissistic part of you then "quite automatically" entered the coffee shop and into his game. Because of this he had control of you, that is, he had control of your centerline at that moment. That means in the coffee shop he had the control. His actions, his movements, dictated your responses.

When we fight for others, if its truly selfless, we can fight absolutely ferociously in whatever way it is required and in the proper way (see Obyvatel's post especially the last paragraph) and at the same time not jeopardize those who we are protecting with our own narcissistic reactions. We know deep down that we are in the right. There is no doubt when we act.

But if a psychopaths type like 'D' pulls you into his game by getting you to react to him in a narcissistic way and then approaching him in that state of mind (i.e., getting you to 'start the fight' by yelling, screaming, cussing. uncontrolled narcissistic/violent anger, etc) then he's got you since your gonna doubt yourself at a deep level. Your gonna doubt and hesitate. But he won't.

 

[Paragon]

Sorry to hear of this situation ulyssess11, being punched in the face is a traumatic experience! Hope you are feeling a bit better now!

And thank you for posting that kenlee, it helps to have a view point of a confrontation from the "work" side of things.

One aspect of this 'controlling your centerline' business is that I've noticed when passing a man or a group of males on a street, I always tense up and have an emotional reaction to their 'energy'. I would feel like a victim and would be submissive in my walking, so that I feel that they would have control of the situation, even if nothing happened which is obviously the case for the majority of the time. What would stop me from having this emotional energy flood the mechanical centre and misuse it? I am aware that EE would help, but what about shedding this 'victim' and 'weak' mentality and gaining control over my mechanical centre?

Thank you in advance :)

 

[Muxel]

Is it self-importance, Paragon?

Examine this case from another thread, but replace "alienating people" with, say, "male dominance/strength":

I'm also trying to find a way to integrate my worldview socially without completely alienating everyone around me

Our “worldview” at best is limited and subjective.

When interacting with others it’s best to suspend all inner considering and act hospitably - so there’s really no need to be concerned about alienation.

At least that’s the way I see it.

Yes, I think that is pure inner considering and self importance, the desire of "bringing others to your world". In my view, it arises from the need to "show people what is best for them" and the need to be perceived as correct. If people seek like you, they will naturally come to the same understandings, and you will perceive with whom you can talk without infringing the freewill and making yourself a target. Depending on the position you take before the world, making oneself a target is sometimes unavoidable, but you should make efforts to consider what other people truly need of you in a given moment. More often than not, it isnt complete worldview revamping, but more basic needs that you can fullfill.

If it helps - even the biggest baddest guy is still a person on the "inside". But I think tensing up is okay if you sense suspicious "energy"/behavior.

 

[Knobbingham]

One aspect of this 'controlling your centerline' business is that I've noticed when passing a man or a group of males on a street, I always tense up and have an emotional reaction to their 'energy'.

Passing people on the street is a type of social interaction that is forced upon most individuals. In smaller, less populated communities, the two people (or groups) take stock of one another long before they even pass each other. Many calculations take place at that moment. Are you gonna pass on his right or to his left? You have to agree on this in a non-verbal way or you will have an even more awkward situation at your hand; you'll literally bump into a stranger.

This is also where a sub-conscious 'threat evaluation' takes place. It is common, and it appears as if sensitive people feel this 'energy' exchange much more than the average. Judging from your post, apparently you feel that you 'lose face' in most of these social encounters and submit to a power that exists only in your imagination. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this problem could originate from a deeper issue of self-confidence.

Personally, my martial arts training has granted me a great deal of confidence on the street. For one, it has given me a better sense of balance, a better awareness of my own body. It really isn't about who can beat who, if kung-fu is better than taek-won-do, even though certain predators certainly will think this way. It is about granting the the practitioner the impression that they can handle most situations, if it should ever come to a physical confrontation. Secondly, the way you carry yourself is extremely important. Do you walk with a slouched back? Do you stare into the ground in front of you instead of looking ahead? All these 'tells' are natural signs of weakness, that people who truly have bad intentions instinctively pick up on, and in the worst case scenario you will be flagged as an easy target.

There is little reason to seek eye contact with a stranger that you pass on the street, unless you have the intentions of engaging in a conversation. Some people just love staring contests and more than a few conflicts have started with 'What you looking at?'. There's no reason to give someone an excuse to explicitly establish social dominance. At the other hand, if you do exchange words, it is common sign of respect and acknowledgement that you seek and maintain eye contact.

I hope some of this helped you out!

 

[Paragon]

Is it self-importance, Paragon?

Examine this case from another thread, but replace "alienating people" with, say, "male dominance/strength":

I'm also trying to find a way to integrate my worldview socially without completely alienating everyone around me

Our “worldview” at best is limited and subjective.

When interacting with others it’s best to suspend all inner considering and act hospitably - so there’s really no need to be concerned about alienation.

At least that’s the way I see it.

Yes, I think that is pure inner considering and self importance, the desire of "bringing others to your world". In my view, it arises from the need to "show people what is best for them" and the need to be perceived as correct. If people seek like you, they will naturally come to the same understandings, and you will perceive with whom you can talk without infringing the freewill and making yourself a target. Depending on the position you take before the world, making oneself a target is sometimes unavoidable, but you should make efforts to consider what other people truly need of you in a given moment. More often than not, it isnt complete worldview revamping, but more basic needs that you can fullfill.

If it helps - even the biggest baddest guy is still a person on the "inside". But I think tensing up is okay if you sense suspicious "energy"/behavior.

Hi Muxel!,

I would say yes, part of it would be my self importance I.e I should be considered and not walked over, in social settings say when I am walking down the street in a city and someone bumps into you or cuts you off or whatnot. I sometimes get the impression that because of my small stature for a male that people pick up on this subconsciously and take advantage.

Or that it's really just my self importance and I am actually not considering others when in the city. It is hard to bring that cosmic perspective that you really don't matter in the grand scheme of things, when you are in a city or other busy place. When I have self observe I have tended to identify with my anxious and nervous energy and this could possibly be amplifying these effects, like a negative feedback loop.

Also the self importance could be that I'm victimising myself and feeling submissive, much in the same way that shyness, is a form of self importance. Not accepting my own physical body, and this focus of attention limits my ability to externally consider.

The times where i have self remembered or observed the inner and outer simultaneously, has been amazing, in that you let the machine do what it does and you have the ability to consciously direct things, without getting 'stuck' in a centre of being. It is so liberating to feel this as you can move gracefully, consider others, think critically and yet pay attention to everything at once without 'losing track'

Sorry if I am not clear btw! :)

 

[Paragon]

One aspect of this 'controlling your centerline' business is that I've noticed when passing a man or a group of males on a street, I always tense up and have an emotional reaction to their 'energy'.

Passing people on the street is a type of social interaction that is forced upon most individuals. In smaller, less populated communities, the two people (or groups) take stock of one another long before they even pass each other. Many calculations take place at that moment. Are you gonna pass on his right or to his left? You have to agree on this in a non-verbal way or you will have an even more awkward situation at your hand; you'll literally bump into a stranger.

This is also where a sub-conscious 'threat evaluation' takes place. It is common, and it appears as if sensitive people feel this 'energy' exchange much more than the average. Judging from your post, apparently you feel that you 'lose face' in most of these social encounters and submit to a power that exists only in your imagination. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this problem could originate from a deeper issue of self-confidence.

Personally, my martial arts training has granted me a great deal of confidence on the street. For one, it has given me a better sense of balance, a better awareness of my own body. It really isn't about who can beat who, if kung-fu is better than taek-won-do, even though certain predators certainly will think this way. It is about granting the the practitioner the impression that they can handle most situations, if it should ever come to a physical confrontation. Secondly, the way you carry yourself is extremely important. Do you walk with a slouched back? Do you stare into the ground in front of you instead of looking ahead? All these 'tells' are natural signs of weakness, that people who truly have bad intentions instinctively pick up on, and in the worst case scenario you will be flagged as an easy target.

There is little reason to seek eye contact with a stranger that you pass on the street, unless you have the intentions of engaging in a conversation. Some people just love staring contests and more than a few conflicts have started with 'What you looking at?'. There's no reason to give someone an excuse to explicitly establish social dominance. At the other hand, if you do exchange words, it is common sign of respect and acknowledgement that you seek and maintain eye contact.

I hope some of this helped you out!

Hi Knobbingham!,

Yes this issue of submitting to this 'power' in my head I feel almost every time, especially when tired or feeling low. I was assaulted before new year and I probably still haven't purged that experience emotionally, so it manifests often in my life. I had one lesson of self defense before that and that session felt amazing and I drew a lot of physical self confidence from that! Just knowing I could at least stand up for myself physically when before in life I had always 'lost' a fight, really enabled me to live better. So I might go again.

My posture is usually good and I consciously make sure I walk with confidence and looseness, except that when I have to pass a person, I sometimes feel that I don't want to project an energy of aggression or confidence or else that person will feel drained or threatened in someway. I also notice that I sometimes seem to just attract attention from the thug types when I walk with confidence and looseness, and they will shout from their car some expletive or something, and I feel like I'm 'pushing above my weight' when it comes to my physical movements.

Or maybe I just think too much about my mechanical centre :P

 

[Knobbingham]

Thanks for your response, I might have misunderstood your question. I think you're fortunate to have the mental capability to address this issue of energy exchange, but that might be just my opinion.

I sometimes feel that I don't want to project an energy of aggression or confidence or else that person will feel drained or threatened in someway.

It's my belief that you shouldn't compromise with your own well-being in these kinds of situations. What others think just by looking at you, it's in their minds only. You can't affect that. It's prejudice. Consequently, this energy of aggression that you could project doesn't harm anyone directly.

If they feel threatened by you, it still doesn't mean that you are threatening them. And I am unsure whether it is even possible for you to drain someone solely from your demeanor. But I could be wrong. What I've read so far, in this thread and in others, indicate that this energy-draining business is native to psychopaths only. Maybe you can educate me on that?

It's the best idea not to respond to anyone calling you from a car, or from the safety of their group, using the 'thug'-type example. These people act weak and will have little to no courage when walking on their own as you and I do often.

Lastly, here's an example of when I would compromise with my philosophy:

A girl was walking ahead of me on the same pavement. Her walking tempo was slower than mine, but not slow enough for me to overtake her without half-running. Eventually, she noticed me as I slowly caught up to her. My plan was to just slow down; I wasn't in a rush at all, but my mind wandered off and as I slipped back into my normal walking pace, she picks up her phone which wasn't ringing and and starts fidgeting with it. I know that this means that she's feeling threatened by my presence in the dark. So I opted to walk across the street to the other pavement, increasing the distance between us.

I could have said "Relax, I'm not here to rob you." but that would probably only make her feel worse. Should I have kept approaching her? Maybe. But I could sense the tension originating from her and I wanted to defuse it. It doesn't bother me the least if she thought she just fended off a predator of some kind, I just reacted to her insecurity. And we didn't even speak one word.