21 powerful questions: gain clarity on who you are, what you should do

Temperance

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
Thank you for posting this list of questions, for me this has also come at a good time. Also thank you Obyvatel and Laura for the clarifications. I will try to answer one or two of these today, perhaps after EE.
 

obyvatel

The Living Force
[quote author=Dakota]
I don't know, maybe I have spent to much time in dealing with some other stuff in my life, then dealing with career or gathering knowledge through science.
[/quote]

If you feel the need to gather knowledge or build a career going forward, then you can go for it. But it may help if you are able to get some clarity on whether these are your own deeper aspirations or standards that you have picked up from others consciously or unconsciously.

[quote author=Dakota]
For now, it is still a mess in my head about my life. One part (or 'I') thinks that I have learned many valuable lessons, another thinks that I could do everything different. Third one thinks that I did best that I can and etc.
I'm not sure that I can be objective toward my life and if I can't who can?
[/quote]

What if all the three parts above are correct? Maybe your work is to first accept these parts as valid and valuable and then integrate their perspectives?

[quote author=Dakota]
I wonder how others progressing in answering on this questions. From which position you start to value yourself? Is it from position of status of your career, your level of knowledge, feeling of confidence or something else?
[/quote]

How about all these and more? I do not have a single facet to myself but several. Let me pick three: individual, familial and social/professional.

As an individual, I value health, attention and virtue (which I understand as a skilled disposition to act in a way that is appropriate to the situation).

As member of a family, I value caring, which includes taking responsibility for providing resources and doing my part in creating favorable living conditions for others.

As a member of society/professional, I value skillful service. Career status is one way in which social/professional success can be measured, but of equal or more importance is quality of the work and the quality of the human relationships in the work context. Ideally career status should be closely tied to the latter but we do not live in ideal world.
 

Dakota

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
bjorn said:
[quote author= Dakota]p.s. almost every time when I write on forum (what is not very often) I have a feeling of déjà-vu, like I'm in some kind of loop and can get out. :huh: Did you ever experienced this in this situation?
Loops like that happen all the time, spotting them is 1, realizing for what it is 2. And trying to get out of that loop by recognizing it's soulless potential while also trying to chance our live in a meaningfull way is 3. It's suffering of the conscious kind and it takes a lot of attempts.

[/quote]

Can you please explain me, bjorn, for which reasons this is happening and what is the meaning of the soulless potential? Because I know that I have this feeling for years and only reason that that comes on my mind is that 4D messing in my timeline.
 

bjorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Dakota said:
bjorn said:
[quote author= Dakota]p.s. almost every time when I write on forum (what is not very often) I have a feeling of déjà-vu, like I'm in some kind of loop and can get out. :huh: Did you ever experienced this in this situation?
Loops like that happen all the time, spotting them is 1, realizing for what it is 2. And trying to get out of that loop by recognizing it's soulless potential while also trying to chance our live in a meaningfull way is 3. It's suffering of the conscious kind and it takes a lot of attempts.
Can you please explain me, bjorn, for which reasons this is happening and what is the meaning of the soulless potential? Because I know that I have this feeling for years and only reason that that comes on my mind is that 4D messing in my timeline.
[/quote]

Hi Dakota

Reading it all again I might have misunderstood you, or not.

When you said the following :

[quote author= Dakota]But, even when I write this I think that this is just a bragging and I'm not objective toward my self. Also, part of me thinks that that is not something special and also how can I prove that I have those abilities.

p.s. almost every time when I write on forum (what is not very often) I have a feeling of déjà-vu, like I'm in some kind of loop and can get out. :huh: Did you ever experienced this in this situation?[/quote]

I though that with 'kind of loop' you were referring to the part where you suspected that a part of you likes to brag while you spoke about your abilities. And you have trouble figuring it out why this takes control over you?

Mechanical Thoughloops such as those are very common with the predator mind.


Or did you meant something else entirely with that last part? If so, sorry, I fail to read things correctly from time to time.
 

Dakota

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
obyvatel said:
[quote author=Dakota]
I wonder how others progressing in answering on this questions. From which position you start to value yourself? Is it from position of status of your career, your level of knowledge, feeling of confidence or something else?
How about all these and more? I do not have a single facet to myself but several. Let me pick three: individual, familial and social/professional.

As an individual, I value health, attention and virtue (which I understand as a skilled disposition to act in a way that is appropriate to the situation).

As member of a family, I value caring, which includes taking responsibility for providing resources and doing my part in creating favorable living conditions for others.

As a member of society/professional, I value skillful service. Career status is one way in which social/professional success can be measured, but of equal or more importance is quality of the work and the quality of the human relationships in the work context. Ideally career status should be closely tied to the latter but we do not live in ideal world.
[/quote]

Thank you obyvatel, you really gave me wider perspective on this questions.

When I was searching for some inspirational articles about this subject I have found very interesting article which I didn't saw in 2014. when it was published: Viktor Frankl, psychiatrist and Holocaust survivor: The difference between a happy life and a meaningful one. Here the parts that I like the most, maybe someone find wonderful inspiration that I found:

This uniqueness and singleness which distinguishes each individual and gives a meaning to his existence has a bearing on creative work as much as it does on human love. When the impossibility of replacing a person is realized, it allows the responsibility which a man has for his existence and its continuance to appear in all its magnitude. A man who becomes conscious of the responsibility he bears toward a human being who affectionately waits for him, or to an unfinished work, will never be able to throw away his life. He knows the "why" for his existence, and will be able to bear almost any "how."
Leading a happy life, the psychologists found, is associated with being a "taker" while leading a meaningful life corresponds with being a "giver."
"Happy people get a lot of joy from receiving benefits from others while people leading meaningful lives get a lot of joy from giving to others," explained Kathleen Vohs, one of the authors of the study, in a recent presentation at the University of Pennsylvania. In other words, meaning transcends the self while happiness is all about giving the self what it wants. People who have high meaning in their lives are more likely to help others in need. "If anything, pure happiness is linked to not helping others in need," the researchers, which include Stanford University's Jennifer Aaker and Emily Garbinsky, write.
Because they have invested themselves in something bigger than themselves, they also worry more and have higher levels of stress and anxiety in their lives than happy people.
Meaning, on the other hand, is enduring. It connects the past to the present to the future. "Thinking beyond the present moment, into the past or future, was a sign of the relatively meaningful but unhappy life," the researchers write. "Happiness is not generally found in contemplating the past or future." That is, people who thought more about the present were happier, but people who spent more time thinking about the future or about past struggles and sufferings felt more meaning in their lives, though they were less happy.
This give totally diferent aproach on my answers.
 

Dakota

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
bjorn said:
Dakota said:
bjorn said:
[quote author= Dakota]p.s. almost every time when I write on forum (what is not very often) I have a feeling of déjà-vu, like I'm in some kind of loop and can get out. :huh: Did you ever experienced this in this situation?
Loops like that happen all the time, spotting them is 1, realizing for what it is 2. And trying to get out of that loop by recognizing it's soulless potential while also trying to chance our live in a meaningfull way is 3. It's suffering of the conscious kind and it takes a lot of attempts.
Can you please explain me, bjorn, for which reasons this is happening and what is the meaning of the soulless potential? Because I know that I have this feeling for years and only reason that that comes on my mind is that 4D messing in my timeline.
Hi Dakota
Reading it all again I might have misunderstood you, or not.
When you said the following :
[quote author= Dakota]But, even when I write this I think that this is just a bragging and I'm not objective toward my self. Also, part of me thinks that that is not something special and also how can I prove that I have those abilities.
p.s. almost every time when I write on forum (what is not very often) I have a feeling of déjà-vu, like I'm in some kind of loop and can get out. :huh: Did you ever experienced this in this situation?[/quote]
I though that with 'kind of loop' you were referring to the part where you suspected that a part of you likes to brag while you spoke about your abilities. And you have trouble figuring it out why this takes control over you?
Mechanical Thoughloops such as those are very common with the predator mind.
Or did you meant something else entirely with that last part? If so, sorry, I fail to read things correctly from time to time.
[/quote]

Nope, I fought real feeling of déjà-vu when I write something on forum, like I'm writing over and over the same thing. I will try to be more conscious when this happens again to see in more detail what I feel and think.

Regarding your reading, my skills of writing on English is still very poor, so it is amazing when someone understood me at all. On the other side I found your post very smart and knowledgeable.
 

bjorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
[quote author= Dakota]Regarding your reading, my skills of writing on English is still very poor, so it is amazing when someone understood me at all.[/quote]

Since you said p.s.
p.s. almost every time when I write on forum...
I should have known that it was unrelated to what you have previous said. My bad.


I do experience déjà vu rarely from time to time myself. And I agree, trying to Be in the moment when this happens helps. Maybe the Universe tries to tell us something when this occurs? :huh:
 

Dakota

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
bjorn said:
Maybe the Universe tries to tell us something when this occurs? :huh:
Even we are on offtopic in this moment, I just have to add that this could be related with my programm that I think that I didn't said anything new or useful for others.
 

Ant22

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Dakota said:
Even we are on offtopic in this moment, I just have to add that this could be related with my programm that I think that I didn't said anything new or useful for others.
Dakota, I can only speak for myself but I can reassure you that you’re not the only person who feels this way. I think it's quite a popular 'program' and it’s natural to want to contribute and give back instead of being a free rider. Not to mention that this forum is full of such insightful comments and people that I sometimes feel like a hamster trying to comprehend the multiplication table! :-[

What helped me was the fact that I recently came to a conclusion that the need to be useful is nothing else but my own self-importance.

Of course my experience and conclusions may not apply to you, but at some point I realised that I cannot possibly be super useful to a bunch of amazing people who have been a part of this endeavour for so much longer than me. To get to a comparable level of awareness and thinking will require loads of practice, and that in turn will require time. At the end of the day this forum has been running for over a decade and I only joined it very recently.

At this point in time I feel grateful much more often than useful. I hope it makes those who help me feel useful themselves because they are making a very much appreciated contribution to my own development, so let it be my way of saying ‘thank you’.

Hopefully, if I’ve learned from all the research, tips and advice one day I will become useful to others too. I guess one has to follow before one is truly ready to lead.

And you know what? You never know when something you say will help someone else really. Your post helped me BIG TIME for example. I just had a sneaky look at your profile and you posted your introductory message in May 2015. I only posted mine in mid-December 2016 and you’ve just made me realise that if someone who has been here for over a year and a half longer than me still feels that way, it’s not my inferior braincell capacity that is making me unable to be more useful - it’s the natural order of things - and there's still a long way to go ahead of me :hug2: :flowers:
 

bjorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Dakota said:
bjorn said:
Maybe the Universe tries to tell us something when this occurs? :huh:
Even we are on offtopic in this moment, I just have to add that this could be related with my programm that I think that I didn't said anything new or useful for others.
What may help, or at least for me. Is having a sketchbook around where you can write down whatever possible program you have discovered. It's like journaling. I write down my overlaying thoughts in pencil, and whenever an important realisation is made, (Or so I think) I use a pen in order to make it stand out more.

From time to time, I read the things I wrote down in pen again. So I can keep an overall sense of my machine and the direction that I should follow to progress. (Or I think so at least) And it ain't always a full mixture of self-importance. We can also act in certain ways because we can falsely believe that this is how we should express our love.

Getting a sense of what is False and what is part of the real I is also essential. And this is open to discovery, but not open to Subjectivity. Luckily through this network we can find out what Objectivity entails together, how to Be, get more conscious and how to keep developing our conscience with it.
 

Dakota

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
Ant22 said:
Dakota said:
Even we are on offtopic in this moment, I just have to add that this could be related with my programm that I think that I didn't said anything new or useful for others.
Dakota, I can only speak for myself but I can reassure you that you’re not the only person who feels this way. I think it's quite a popular 'program' and it’s natural to want to contribute and give back instead of being a free rider. Not to mention that this forum is full of such insightful comments and people that I sometimes feel like a hamster trying to comprehend the multiplication table! :-[

What helped me was the fact that I recently came to a conclusion that the need to be useful is nothing else but my own self-importance.
I'm pretty sure that your conclusion could be applied for me to. But also it could be 'normal' human reaction when someone recieve so much that he want to give back, except if he is a psychopath or something similiar.

Ant22 said:
Of course my experience and conclusions may not apply to you, but at some point I realised that I cannot possibly be super useful to a bunch of amazing people who have been a part of this endeavour for so much longer than me. To get to a comparable level of awareness and thinking will require loads of practice, and that in turn will require time. At the end of the day this forum has been running for over a decade and I only joined it very recently.


At this point in time I feel grateful much more often than useful. I hope it makes those who help me feel useful themselves because they are making a very much appreciated contribution to my own development, so let it be my way of saying ‘thank you’.

Hopefully, if I’ve learned from all the research, tips and advice one day I will become useful to others too. I guess one has to follow before one is truly ready to lead.

And you know what? You never know when something you say will help someone else really. Your post helped me BIG TIME for example. I just had a sneaky look at your profile and you posted your introductory message in May 2015. I only posted mine in mid-December 2016 and you’ve just made me realise that if someone who has been here for over a year and a half longer than me still feels that way, it’s not my inferior braincell capacity that is making me unable to be more useful - it’s the natural order of things - and there's still a long way to go ahead of me :hug2: :flowers:
You know, you triggered many thoughts in my head and I want to say so much but I need at least half and hour or even hole hour just to write couple of sentences (English is not my native language). Also, this forum is most extraordinary place (for me) on the Earth. Surely, this could be my subjective point of view, and I have always tried to avoid this subject because I don't want to offend someone, especially someone that gives so much. That could easily look like ingratitude, also, there is so much material about so much thing that one could easily overlook bunch of information. So, I'm gonna said it with hope that this doesn't offend no one. Because this forum is like one giant library and I really feel like I'm just a child with wide open mouth when I'm here, one expect from himself to know a lot to be ready to comment anything. Gurdjieff school is very hard, great but gives so much pressure and feeling that one is not capable. Most of the time I don't feel like I'm capable to learn and implement all this in my life and be valuable part of this community. But, I'm here for years and I have learn a lot, also implemented that in my life (that part gave me boost that I earned to be here) but there is always this feeling that I can't follow everything that is going on. I'm sorry, if this sound confusing, I would probably had a problem to talk about this on my native language.

Only thing I miss here and that is feedback from others. Not just for me, but for all. In my life, all the things that I have read, books, articles nothing can compare with real experiences and feedback from others. I like to tell people how they affect on me, how I feel next to them. I have noticed that there is no many people that are ready or even interested about this. Maybe that is only in my country, where people really feel uncomfortable when someone talks about this things. Off course, now I know that is STS to tell people something that they don't want to hear, and I try to not do that, but still I learn the most from feedback others people. I have read somewhere that talking others how they affect you could easily be understood like flatering, especially if you saying nice things.

It is very hard to be objective towards yourself (especially with all this 'I' in us) but when others give you feedback of how they experience you, it seems to me, that you could get better picture who you are, mixed with the things that you know about yourself.

For a example, thing that you said that something on my profile help you with something feels me with joy. Sometime I feel like we are sharing theory, information even experiences but without 'human touch'.

I really hope that my subjective point of view will not be understood like a critic of this forum, it could be easily that I have missed something or a lot. :rolleyes:

One more thing, when someone gives me his feedback on me, or something that I said or did, I feel much alive. And not just the nice part of feedback. I love critism, I have learn more from critism then to 'good stuff' that someone said to me. Usually, I think that good stuff is not true.
 

Charade

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
loreta said:
Wow, powerful questions, some just reading them made me cry. I think they are very, very important to answer. They remember some questions that sometimes the stoics ask, also. (I am reading "The Daily Stoic by Ryan Holiday).

Thank you Laura!
Answering the first question in my journal made me cry. Thinking of what I had liked only to realize they are the past. I had so much without a clear understanding of how to enjoy, or protect,or to be good. None of it lasts....

I haven't read the whole list. I am going to read each one right before I answer it. I think I will be more truthful and ruthless as Laura put it, in my answer..

I wake up every morning and have to remind myself about the current details of my reality. It's as if I really let go at night and forget which me I am by morning. Damn the loss of youthfulness and innocence and idealism.
 

Beau

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Ant22 said:
Dakota said:
Even we are on offtopic in this moment, I just have to add that this could be related with my programm that I think that I didn't said anything new or useful for others.
Dakota, I can only speak for myself but I can reassure you that you’re not the only person who feels this way. I think it's quite a popular 'program' and it’s natural to want to contribute and give back instead of being a free rider. Not to mention that this forum is full of such insightful comments and people that I sometimes feel like a hamster trying to comprehend the multiplication table! :-[

What helped me was the fact that I recently came to a conclusion that the need to be useful is nothing else but my own self-importance.
Another thing to keep in mind is that, if you don't post because you feel like what you say won't be useful, you'll never actually get any feedback that what you wrote is or isn't useful! It's a catch-22. The best way to know if you're posting "noise" is to post. But the key is like you say, get over your self-importance, which can talk us into not saying anything over saying something and getting feedback that could be critical. Without constructive criticism, how do we fix our machine? We don't, but it's interesting how our false self can do all it can to maintain control and keep us from doing that which can advance us mentally, emotionally and spiritually.
 

ROEL

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
Heavy interesting questions. Some are really hard to answer. They put you in a position such that you can realize you don't know yourself as you thought you did, and that most of your life you have been daydreaming, i.e. Not present.
 

Mariama

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Thank you so much for these questions, Laura. I hope I will be able to answer them as I find them pretty difficult. But it will probably steer me in the right direction, as I often find that my life's purpose lacks focus. I could be wrong though.
 
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