The Role of Meditation in the Work
- Thread starter wilecoyote
- Start date
j0da
Jedi Council Member
Thank you for the answers friends. I tried to meditate right away, but found it very hard, even if I had some experience with sitting quiet and still before. Basicaly, I have problems with breathing, which is usually very shallow - in no way I can breathe in during counting to 10..I end up on 4 or 5. But, I've decided not to force my breath in any way and was just sitting. After maybe 20 minutes of my sloppy meditation, which was often interrupted with light momentary unconsciousness I stopped. Then I felt like I wanted to sleep. So I went to sleep and...
I woke up after 3 hours or so. I had a dream and I wrote it down. Although I'm not in condition to elaborate on it right now, I'd say that it left me in VERY uncomfortable state. Basically, this dream showed me some of my most profound lies about myself. It showed feebleness of my relationships with women, true nature of all people I've been surrounding myself in secondary school and at the university, my financial condition, etc, etc. I feel sick. Never before I sustained such a blow, when I've litterally been trown with considerable pack of truths right in my face. There was a lot of it and in ONE package. I guess it is an effect of many previous days spent reading cass and sott material and today all of it seemed to form a blade which cut through my most cherisched illusions.
Some time ago I've been reading some material written by fringe scientologist who said that awakening demands huge amount of courage. Then I didn't get the message, for I couldn't figure out what is so scary about truth. All of those stories about multidimensional beings, prison planet, control system..for me, they were rather entertaining, they gave me the feeling of taking part in a great adventure. So, where was the place for courage? Today I found what one needs courage for. Finding the truth about 'outer' reality may be uncomfortable, but finding the truth about oneselve's lies in his 'inner' reality is completely another story. Damn...that's painfull.
I woke up after 3 hours or so. I had a dream and I wrote it down. Although I'm not in condition to elaborate on it right now, I'd say that it left me in VERY uncomfortable state. Basically, this dream showed me some of my most profound lies about myself. It showed feebleness of my relationships with women, true nature of all people I've been surrounding myself in secondary school and at the university, my financial condition, etc, etc. I feel sick. Never before I sustained such a blow, when I've litterally been trown with considerable pack of truths right in my face. There was a lot of it and in ONE package. I guess it is an effect of many previous days spent reading cass and sott material and today all of it seemed to form a blade which cut through my most cherisched illusions.
Some time ago I've been reading some material written by fringe scientologist who said that awakening demands huge amount of courage. Then I didn't get the message, for I couldn't figure out what is so scary about truth. All of those stories about multidimensional beings, prison planet, control system..for me, they were rather entertaining, they gave me the feeling of taking part in a great adventure. So, where was the place for courage? Today I found what one needs courage for. Finding the truth about 'outer' reality may be uncomfortable, but finding the truth about oneselve's lies in his 'inner' reality is completely another story. Damn...that's painfull.
T
tschai
Guest
Is what J0DA experienced-the truth about oneself exposed in this stark manner the Shamanistic equivalent of "having the flesh stripped from the bones"?
Or is that experience something different? Something even more profound? And do the Buddhists really want to "disappear" or is that simply their way of expressing becoming one with the Godhead?
This is all so darn confusing at times...
Or is that experience something different? Something even more profound? And do the Buddhists really want to "disappear" or is that simply their way of expressing becoming one with the Godhead?
This is all so darn confusing at times...
S
sinimat
Guest
Thank you for this discussion, as this has been on my mind too, especially the similarity of self-observation and meditation.
Joda, the truth is painful to see and you have made a huge step by allowing yourself to open up and see this for yourself.
Duration.
Success. No blame.
Perseverance furthers.
It furthers one to have somewhere to go.
Joda, the truth is painful to see and you have made a huge step by allowing yourself to open up and see this for yourself.
Duration.
Success. No blame.
Perseverance furthers.
It furthers one to have somewhere to go.
j0da
Jedi Council Member
Well. Tschai, I feel stripped and I'm hell ashamed of what I see...I'll try to convey some thoughts just to share it with others, so some could compare their experiences and others can get a glimpse of what one can expect.
Maybe I should start with a dream.
I found myself accompanied with my girlfriend - not some particular girfriend, but a composite being..constructed from my usual preferences as to skin colour, hair, eyes, body frame, etc. During all the drama I was confusing her name - I called her in two or three different ways.
We were at the New Year's Eve party, in a place which mentally resembled location which I visited every New Year's Eve. I didn't change the party options during previous years because of sheer laziness or custom. Strangely, the party turned out to be in my grandparent's house (from my dad's side), rather large flat with big rooms, a corridor, kitchen..it looked exactly like in reality in regard of rooms composition. In a dream this house belonged to my old friend who is a friend no more today, but the host of a party turned out to be yet another mate of mine, with whom I'm still associated, although in a rather loose way. Again, we have another confusion here where different people/characters are intertwinted in the drama.
I and my girlfriend were storrling back and forth between the rooms, trying to find a place for ourselves, but we could find none. No room was suitable for us, for we could find neither fine people to spend time with, nor good entertainment nor even a calm place to rest a bit and be alone together. All guests divided into particular rooms, but no matter where I looked - it sucked. It was like..all those rooms were covered with filth and all those people were filthy as well - not so much in appearance, but in their inner construction...They were like...automatons, playing their usual programs, scattered around, seated on sofas, lying on the floor, stuffed with some drugs, unmoving, or engaged in some meaningless conversations. I knew some of these people from university, some from high school, some from a place where I lived for over twenty years, some were complete strangers. This party, those people had an aura of covert hostility - fake friends, fake affections, fake gestures, empty words...Colours were dark, many shades of gray mostly. Gray walls, gray furniture, people wore gray rags with some exceptions.
As far as interactions with them go.. one girl who I knew during my studies.. she always had fun, no matter in what conditions. In reality she was mean, insolent and noisy - and in the dream she walked through the rooms in her posed 'having fun' glory. In one moment she unsuspectedly spilled a whole bucket of cold water at me, sneering, thinking it was funny or something. Whole room celebrated her 'joke' as I was standing there, wet, humiliated in front of my girlfriend, weak and undecisive. I should have slapped the b*tch, or something, but instead I was later searching aimlessly for another bucket to get even with her. Needless to say - it was useless and completely depressing.
I was dragging my girlfriend with me all along, so she witnessed all of those feeble actions, weak attempts to retain at least the tiny drop of honour and self esteem. In effect I think I was only loosing in her eyes. Somewhere, I finally found a silent spot to rest and talk with her, I pulled a little plastic bag out of my pocket to show her gemstones I had with me..but the surrounding, whole situation and my condition were completely inapropriate for those precious stones to be shown or enjoyed.
We hadn't too much time alone, because my father found us in this room. He indicated that party was rather lousy, but told me he also participated is such usually. He pulled out some old story from the past when he was cheated during his holidays, someone who is living abroad and who is hard to reach to get back what belonged to my dad.
As we slowly decided to leave the party someone asked my if I wanted to buy a bicycle from him. It was nice piece of recent technology and he wanted to sell it cheap like hell, but, heck, I even didn't have that much.
Before we left, we were searching for our stuff in all those rooms - like our jackets or sweaters. I was feeling shy, like I didn't want to interrupt anyone, and hell, noone was paying attention to my inquires if they have seen our clothes. I felt like..nobody. All those lousy people were just occupied in drinking alkohol, smoking pot, discussing latest gossips or just posing being cool. I have seen their masks and what was underneath, but I had no strenght to scream the truth right in their sorry faces. I left, terribly unhappy, disgusted and humiliated. So much for happy ending.
---
Thanks to Esoquest I learned a bit about reading dreams and I found a lot of parrallels in this drama, which refer to my past and present. The dream mostly resembled my feelings when I was younger, my interactions with people - and that was the obvious message. But what was really conveyed was my bankrupcy as a person today. I've been through some scientolgy processing, which straightened me a bit, resolved most painful confusions of family and female interactions - that enabled me to get out of a really deep stinking pit. I've had some stunnig cognitions which freed me to the extent that finally I could look around me with hope. But, that is a past succes..some effects of this work will remain with me forever but most wore down long ago... Today I understood that lately I've built another construct around myself, a construct of oh so cool 'truth seeker', a construct of 'personified god in learning'. There is nothing wrong with seeking a truth or being personified god..but only if it really is the case. If those are only outer manifestations, a pose, a play, a faked image - then what good is that? What good is reading these pages for sheer fun of 'thrill' or 'mystery'? What good is writting elaborate, eloquent posts if it is only a show? I found myself lying so terribly, so utterly, all the time, even here, pretending, mimicking, faking that it made me sick. Looking for a like-mindedness only for sake of like-mindedness? What good is that? What is it different from sitting in a forum dedicated to Pamela Anderson, besides from content? If one's frame of mind isn't of a real, dedicated seeker then being here is of no use, apart from sophisticated entertainment.
As I said...all of those thoughts are darn uncomfortable.. I just wonder where do I go from here.
p.s. On a second thought I might add that I discovered how deeply entrenched feeling of inferiority can be easily covered by glossy mask. Insecurity, fear, shyness, doubt, weakness, undecisiveness, laziness...all of that can be overlaid with a construct which can even make one 'succesfull' and almost NOBODY would have a clue, as to what remains inside a person. More, the author of the construct won't have a clue either. Gosh, it boggles my mind, how proficient one can be at lying. And if it so easy to become a master of self-deception it's not far from being a master in deceiving others. Becoming Darth Vader is easier than I thought.
Now where is my lightsabre? I'd swear it was blue, but ...
Maybe I should start with a dream.
I found myself accompanied with my girlfriend - not some particular girfriend, but a composite being..constructed from my usual preferences as to skin colour, hair, eyes, body frame, etc. During all the drama I was confusing her name - I called her in two or three different ways.
We were at the New Year's Eve party, in a place which mentally resembled location which I visited every New Year's Eve. I didn't change the party options during previous years because of sheer laziness or custom. Strangely, the party turned out to be in my grandparent's house (from my dad's side), rather large flat with big rooms, a corridor, kitchen..it looked exactly like in reality in regard of rooms composition. In a dream this house belonged to my old friend who is a friend no more today, but the host of a party turned out to be yet another mate of mine, with whom I'm still associated, although in a rather loose way. Again, we have another confusion here where different people/characters are intertwinted in the drama.
I and my girlfriend were storrling back and forth between the rooms, trying to find a place for ourselves, but we could find none. No room was suitable for us, for we could find neither fine people to spend time with, nor good entertainment nor even a calm place to rest a bit and be alone together. All guests divided into particular rooms, but no matter where I looked - it sucked. It was like..all those rooms were covered with filth and all those people were filthy as well - not so much in appearance, but in their inner construction...They were like...automatons, playing their usual programs, scattered around, seated on sofas, lying on the floor, stuffed with some drugs, unmoving, or engaged in some meaningless conversations. I knew some of these people from university, some from high school, some from a place where I lived for over twenty years, some were complete strangers. This party, those people had an aura of covert hostility - fake friends, fake affections, fake gestures, empty words...Colours were dark, many shades of gray mostly. Gray walls, gray furniture, people wore gray rags with some exceptions.
As far as interactions with them go.. one girl who I knew during my studies.. she always had fun, no matter in what conditions. In reality she was mean, insolent and noisy - and in the dream she walked through the rooms in her posed 'having fun' glory. In one moment she unsuspectedly spilled a whole bucket of cold water at me, sneering, thinking it was funny or something. Whole room celebrated her 'joke' as I was standing there, wet, humiliated in front of my girlfriend, weak and undecisive. I should have slapped the b*tch, or something, but instead I was later searching aimlessly for another bucket to get even with her. Needless to say - it was useless and completely depressing.
I was dragging my girlfriend with me all along, so she witnessed all of those feeble actions, weak attempts to retain at least the tiny drop of honour and self esteem. In effect I think I was only loosing in her eyes. Somewhere, I finally found a silent spot to rest and talk with her, I pulled a little plastic bag out of my pocket to show her gemstones I had with me..but the surrounding, whole situation and my condition were completely inapropriate for those precious stones to be shown or enjoyed.
We hadn't too much time alone, because my father found us in this room. He indicated that party was rather lousy, but told me he also participated is such usually. He pulled out some old story from the past when he was cheated during his holidays, someone who is living abroad and who is hard to reach to get back what belonged to my dad.
As we slowly decided to leave the party someone asked my if I wanted to buy a bicycle from him. It was nice piece of recent technology and he wanted to sell it cheap like hell, but, heck, I even didn't have that much.
Before we left, we were searching for our stuff in all those rooms - like our jackets or sweaters. I was feeling shy, like I didn't want to interrupt anyone, and hell, noone was paying attention to my inquires if they have seen our clothes. I felt like..nobody. All those lousy people were just occupied in drinking alkohol, smoking pot, discussing latest gossips or just posing being cool. I have seen their masks and what was underneath, but I had no strenght to scream the truth right in their sorry faces. I left, terribly unhappy, disgusted and humiliated. So much for happy ending.
---
Thanks to Esoquest I learned a bit about reading dreams and I found a lot of parrallels in this drama, which refer to my past and present. The dream mostly resembled my feelings when I was younger, my interactions with people - and that was the obvious message. But what was really conveyed was my bankrupcy as a person today. I've been through some scientolgy processing, which straightened me a bit, resolved most painful confusions of family and female interactions - that enabled me to get out of a really deep stinking pit. I've had some stunnig cognitions which freed me to the extent that finally I could look around me with hope. But, that is a past succes..some effects of this work will remain with me forever but most wore down long ago... Today I understood that lately I've built another construct around myself, a construct of oh so cool 'truth seeker', a construct of 'personified god in learning'. There is nothing wrong with seeking a truth or being personified god..but only if it really is the case. If those are only outer manifestations, a pose, a play, a faked image - then what good is that? What good is reading these pages for sheer fun of 'thrill' or 'mystery'? What good is writting elaborate, eloquent posts if it is only a show? I found myself lying so terribly, so utterly, all the time, even here, pretending, mimicking, faking that it made me sick. Looking for a like-mindedness only for sake of like-mindedness? What good is that? What is it different from sitting in a forum dedicated to Pamela Anderson, besides from content? If one's frame of mind isn't of a real, dedicated seeker then being here is of no use, apart from sophisticated entertainment.
As I said...all of those thoughts are darn uncomfortable.. I just wonder where do I go from here.
p.s. On a second thought I might add that I discovered how deeply entrenched feeling of inferiority can be easily covered by glossy mask. Insecurity, fear, shyness, doubt, weakness, undecisiveness, laziness...all of that can be overlaid with a construct which can even make one 'succesfull' and almost NOBODY would have a clue, as to what remains inside a person. More, the author of the construct won't have a clue either. Gosh, it boggles my mind, how proficient one can be at lying. And if it so easy to become a master of self-deception it's not far from being a master in deceiving others. Becoming Darth Vader is easier than I thought.
Now where is my lightsabre? I'd swear it was blue, but ...
G
Guest
Guest
Your sincere expression provides an opportunity for everyone because it is something any "truthseeker" will confront: the image in the "funhouse" mirror, that some erroneously call "the dweller at the threshold". Permit me to say a few things. This is quite misunderstood, partly because this image is constructed both from truth and from conditioning. It's revelation is designed to reveal, but the imput from conditioning or false self is also designed to disempower. And we the conscious observer are usually caught in the middle.
As such we can see how discernment goes beyond what other people say, and into what we say about ourselves. This is not easy territory to navigate. Yes, it does take courage. I do not, however, believe this is the courage of the warrior, but the courage of the explorer.
The seeker for truth is a seeker for El Dorado, the golden place. The truth sought is not information, but truth as value and meaning, truth as the movement to embody it as oneself.
The dweller is that formation that drooled after the carrot. When the dweller formation realizes it has been wasting its time it tries to make us turn back by revealing itself. As Laura said, we need not consider this some alien presence. Conditioning takes a life of its own, and quite starkly at that. The dweller is an adaptation to the limited conditions of life we adopted to survive in this world.
I would like to pose that children who refuse to adapt are those whose lives end quickly. They are the "too innocent" who are spit out from this world because they will not or cannot own the perversions thrust upon them. It is these perversions of being that will form the basis for future learning. There is no blame in any of this, as these are soul decisions and part of a greater learning anyway.
The point is to gain a more integrated perspective on the twistings of our being, so we may get down to the real work of untwisting them.
When in the military, I realized that I was being conditioned to kill people in a very raw manner. This went way beyond any previous musing about this. And it went way beyond exercises on how to use weapons. I saw how children entered their service period, and after a year or two, emerged with latent psychopathic tendencies all in the name of defending the motherland.
I saw my "training" as a reflection to the "training" we all received as children. And it allowed me to remember the trauma of being thus conditioned from human to automaton. I once saw a cartoon as a kid where an evil demon kidnapped children and threw them into the monster machine, which was like a great mouth. When they came out the other end, they were demons in its likeness. We were simiilarly thrown into the mouth of the machine called the matrix when we were trained to live a living death, to be robots, to act predictably according to our role, to provide references of self so other robots could identify us. We were trained to work WITH the system, and feed it.
When you confront the dweller, you confront the zombie-demon within, one of the basic layers of conditioning. Actually, one of the reasons initial "spiritual" experiences are profound is because the zombie (not knowing what it is getting itself into) thinks it can get the promised carrot by supporting the experience. And when it realizes that the carrot really amounts to its death, the true battle begins. And it is not a grand spectacle, but a very covert form of inner guerilla warfare.
And the battle is raged between the actor and the role the actor has been conditioned to play. And this is because the actor was convinced that his survival depended on the perfection of his performance, and how loud the audience applauds. And the actor becomes addicted because the only semblance of life allowed him is through the role itself. The actor is punished, the role is rewarded, hence the conditioning.
We must, therefore, consider the possibility that we have been conditioned to punish ourselves when the role is threatened. When we look in the mirror, and witness the role that WE have played, we still have a reflex of punishment, just as when we still believed in the carrot we had a reflex of seeking its reward.
Yet truth is not a reward, anymore than breathing is a reward (although I am sure that some pathocrats would like to have it that way). Truth is life, and living the truth is being alive. So one of the illusions we are challenged to release when we confront the role, is the illusion of reward and punishment, for self and others.
I am not speaking of justice as a removal of those that are harmful to the rest, but of using pain and suffering to condition behaviour. There is the pain that true conscience reveals, and there is a far greater pain (all the more because it hurts and does not heal) that is the pain of self-punishment.
One of the ways we can recognize this punishment is by recognizing derision as one of its symptoms. The actor (the one behind the role) is the one with the conscience. Conscience experiences the pain of consequence as compassion. We hurt because we have a clear perception of the hurt caused by the actions of self and/or others. And deeper than that hurt is a move to understand why the actor played the role, which transcends anything the role may have to say on the matter. The the words of the role, therefore, can only be judgment.
Derision on the other hand, is devoid of compassion, and of conscience. Self-derision is the role trying to dominate the actor and break him. Part of our learning is the discernment of conscience from punishment. Our monotheistic religions go a long way to try to make them seem one and the same, and this says quite a bit about them as forms of control, as grand dramas and repositories of roles to play.
That is all I want to say for now on this matter (not to get too convoluted).
Something to consider, however, is also that Darth Vader became Darth Vader not because of rage, but because of the pain his role as a Jedi caused him. This role was supposed to reward him with the power to protect, and when that was not forthcoming, the role itself punished him by twisting the deeper truth, and leading him to a dark place of perpetual self-deception. It is easy to become Vader, but probably not for the reasons one might think.
As such we can see how discernment goes beyond what other people say, and into what we say about ourselves. This is not easy territory to navigate. Yes, it does take courage. I do not, however, believe this is the courage of the warrior, but the courage of the explorer.
The seeker for truth is a seeker for El Dorado, the golden place. The truth sought is not information, but truth as value and meaning, truth as the movement to embody it as oneself.
You know when you realize you are "a personified god in learning" (or anything else for that matter)? It is when you realize there is nothing special about it, and that although it changes everything, it also changes nothing. The image of attainment is always flashy, and holds allure. It should be. Who would otherwise strive without that carrot placed in front of the lower self? In fact, REAL seeking begins when you realize the carrot was an illusion. That is often when we confront the "dweller".jOda said:
The dweller is that formation that drooled after the carrot. When the dweller formation realizes it has been wasting its time it tries to make us turn back by revealing itself. As Laura said, we need not consider this some alien presence. Conditioning takes a life of its own, and quite starkly at that. The dweller is an adaptation to the limited conditions of life we adopted to survive in this world.
I would like to pose that children who refuse to adapt are those whose lives end quickly. They are the "too innocent" who are spit out from this world because they will not or cannot own the perversions thrust upon them. It is these perversions of being that will form the basis for future learning. There is no blame in any of this, as these are soul decisions and part of a greater learning anyway.
The point is to gain a more integrated perspective on the twistings of our being, so we may get down to the real work of untwisting them.
Actually, to an extend there is good in that. The good comes when we realize we are actors in our own twisted play. The good of that realization, furthermore, is revealed when we realize that we have organized our role because we could not survive and be a part of this world otherwise. We chose the role, but did not create the stage (at least in a personal immediate manner).
When in the military, I realized that I was being conditioned to kill people in a very raw manner. This went way beyond any previous musing about this. And it went way beyond exercises on how to use weapons. I saw how children entered their service period, and after a year or two, emerged with latent psychopathic tendencies all in the name of defending the motherland.
I saw my "training" as a reflection to the "training" we all received as children. And it allowed me to remember the trauma of being thus conditioned from human to automaton. I once saw a cartoon as a kid where an evil demon kidnapped children and threw them into the monster machine, which was like a great mouth. When they came out the other end, they were demons in its likeness. We were simiilarly thrown into the mouth of the machine called the matrix when we were trained to live a living death, to be robots, to act predictably according to our role, to provide references of self so other robots could identify us. We were trained to work WITH the system, and feed it.
When you confront the dweller, you confront the zombie-demon within, one of the basic layers of conditioning. Actually, one of the reasons initial "spiritual" experiences are profound is because the zombie (not knowing what it is getting itself into) thinks it can get the promised carrot by supporting the experience. And when it realizes that the carrot really amounts to its death, the true battle begins. And it is not a grand spectacle, but a very covert form of inner guerilla warfare.
And the battle is raged between the actor and the role the actor has been conditioned to play. And this is because the actor was convinced that his survival depended on the perfection of his performance, and how loud the audience applauds. And the actor becomes addicted because the only semblance of life allowed him is through the role itself. The actor is punished, the role is rewarded, hence the conditioning.
We must, therefore, consider the possibility that we have been conditioned to punish ourselves when the role is threatened. When we look in the mirror, and witness the role that WE have played, we still have a reflex of punishment, just as when we still believed in the carrot we had a reflex of seeking its reward.
Yet truth is not a reward, anymore than breathing is a reward (although I am sure that some pathocrats would like to have it that way). Truth is life, and living the truth is being alive. So one of the illusions we are challenged to release when we confront the role, is the illusion of reward and punishment, for self and others.
I am not speaking of justice as a removal of those that are harmful to the rest, but of using pain and suffering to condition behaviour. There is the pain that true conscience reveals, and there is a far greater pain (all the more because it hurts and does not heal) that is the pain of self-punishment.
One of the ways we can recognize this punishment is by recognizing derision as one of its symptoms. The actor (the one behind the role) is the one with the conscience. Conscience experiences the pain of consequence as compassion. We hurt because we have a clear perception of the hurt caused by the actions of self and/or others. And deeper than that hurt is a move to understand why the actor played the role, which transcends anything the role may have to say on the matter. The the words of the role, therefore, can only be judgment.
Derision on the other hand, is devoid of compassion, and of conscience. Self-derision is the role trying to dominate the actor and break him. Part of our learning is the discernment of conscience from punishment. Our monotheistic religions go a long way to try to make them seem one and the same, and this says quite a bit about them as forms of control, as grand dramas and repositories of roles to play.
That is all I want to say for now on this matter (not to get too convoluted).
Something to consider, however, is also that Darth Vader became Darth Vader not because of rage, but because of the pain his role as a Jedi caused him. This role was supposed to reward him with the power to protect, and when that was not forthcoming, the role itself punished him by twisting the deeper truth, and leading him to a dark place of perpetual self-deception. It is easy to become Vader, but probably not for the reasons one might think.
T
tschai
Guest
Hello all-
j0da I can very easily share that same feeling-I too thought I really "knew" a lot when it came to the Work-only to find by coming on to this site that there is so much more to learn.
I recently have taken up the martial art of Shinkendo-"The Serious Way of the Sword"which is a relatively recent ressurection (20 years) of the true Samurai training-and asked myself why at this late stage of the "game" would I want to do this (I am 51 years old-but do not look or feel that old) and subsequently had a very vivid dream relative to this-and there was a vague "someone" my real self? that explained this was a way to "cut away" the layers of the onion-and I woke just as this person-whom I could not see clearly-said this to me.
The way I interpreted this was that this training would help me to "cut away" all that is false and untrue-and expose the "real" inner BEing. I am not yet certain how this will be accomplished-but I know that all things happen for a reason and that it will be revealed to me in due time.
Many things are being revealed-and I will try to use these new techniques in meditation to "see" more.
I lately have found myself living in a fog-like I am not even connected to the Earth any longer-and things I have always wanted to know seem to be coming at me at a break neck pace-it is kind of exhilirating-but at the same time there is this sense of forboding-knowing that once the real revelations begin there will be no turning back-life will not be the same-and the end-whatever that may be could be very near.
I seem to see things out of the corner of my eye-and hear things when I go to sleep (I can't help thinking about Ben and his troubles)-if I look at a tree line I seem to see vague impressions of buildings superimposed over them-things that will be or things that were? Reality seems to be losing ground-nothing seems very real or relevant anymore. My work seems trivial and unimportant-I am just going through the motions of day to day existence.
I search the skies -looking for "them" to appear-disappointed they do not-but again realize that once they do, life on this Earth will never be the same-and I look around me and see all these people-especially family and friends-and wonder what will become of them-and me-in the end. It makes me really sad sometimes.
Yeah-it is a real shock to see yourself darkly in the mirror of your mind-to see that dark side of yourself -the Vader we all harbor inside-but I desire to be a Jedi of the Light side-and will "unlearn all that I have learned" and see things differently with the new "sight" gained by finding this network of friends and mentors.
We have asked-and have been lead here-by the C's, by our own "true self"-I don't know-but I am GLAD it has happened.
One thing that puzzles me-and I just was thinking about this yesterday-if there are really so very few that will "make" it-to ascend-why are the 4D STS denizens so keen on preventing this?
With so many others to "feed" on-why so concerned about these realtive few? Why should they care if we Work to improve ourselves? I just do not understand this motive-I accept it is so-but do not grok the "WHY"?
But I forget-it is not just US-but ALL 3D beings in THIS universe-which have an opportunity at the realm border crossing (The Wave)?- I also wonder-if this were to occur at another locator, other than Earth-if there would be some impetus to create a way to reach the place where it would occur-LIKE a sudden invention of a hyper drive or something...
j0da I can very easily share that same feeling-I too thought I really "knew" a lot when it came to the Work-only to find by coming on to this site that there is so much more to learn.
I recently have taken up the martial art of Shinkendo-"The Serious Way of the Sword"which is a relatively recent ressurection (20 years) of the true Samurai training-and asked myself why at this late stage of the "game" would I want to do this (I am 51 years old-but do not look or feel that old) and subsequently had a very vivid dream relative to this-and there was a vague "someone" my real self? that explained this was a way to "cut away" the layers of the onion-and I woke just as this person-whom I could not see clearly-said this to me.
The way I interpreted this was that this training would help me to "cut away" all that is false and untrue-and expose the "real" inner BEing. I am not yet certain how this will be accomplished-but I know that all things happen for a reason and that it will be revealed to me in due time.
Many things are being revealed-and I will try to use these new techniques in meditation to "see" more.
I lately have found myself living in a fog-like I am not even connected to the Earth any longer-and things I have always wanted to know seem to be coming at me at a break neck pace-it is kind of exhilirating-but at the same time there is this sense of forboding-knowing that once the real revelations begin there will be no turning back-life will not be the same-and the end-whatever that may be could be very near.
I seem to see things out of the corner of my eye-and hear things when I go to sleep (I can't help thinking about Ben and his troubles)-if I look at a tree line I seem to see vague impressions of buildings superimposed over them-things that will be or things that were? Reality seems to be losing ground-nothing seems very real or relevant anymore. My work seems trivial and unimportant-I am just going through the motions of day to day existence.
I search the skies -looking for "them" to appear-disappointed they do not-but again realize that once they do, life on this Earth will never be the same-and I look around me and see all these people-especially family and friends-and wonder what will become of them-and me-in the end. It makes me really sad sometimes.
Yeah-it is a real shock to see yourself darkly in the mirror of your mind-to see that dark side of yourself -the Vader we all harbor inside-but I desire to be a Jedi of the Light side-and will "unlearn all that I have learned" and see things differently with the new "sight" gained by finding this network of friends and mentors.
We have asked-and have been lead here-by the C's, by our own "true self"-I don't know-but I am GLAD it has happened.
One thing that puzzles me-and I just was thinking about this yesterday-if there are really so very few that will "make" it-to ascend-why are the 4D STS denizens so keen on preventing this?
With so many others to "feed" on-why so concerned about these realtive few? Why should they care if we Work to improve ourselves? I just do not understand this motive-I accept it is so-but do not grok the "WHY"?
But I forget-it is not just US-but ALL 3D beings in THIS universe-which have an opportunity at the realm border crossing (The Wave)?- I also wonder-if this were to occur at another locator, other than Earth-if there would be some impetus to create a way to reach the place where it would occur-LIKE a sudden invention of a hyper drive or something...
Mr. Premise
The Living Force
The way I understand it is that the earth as a whole will become 4D. Some 3D people will graduate to 4D STS and others will become 4D STO. The rest, who don't graduate, repeat "thrid grade." 4D STS would like to rule us in 4D and in order for that to happen, they need to keep the number that will graduate to 4D STO as low as possible and manipulate things right at the transition point so that most of the graduates will become 4D STS.
tschai said:
G
Guest
Guest
Tschai, as anart also implied, one thing to keep in mind is: it aint over till it's over. Nothing is written in stone, and if it is, the stone can be scraped clean and rewritten.
We all have things to learn, but we also are coming to remember lessons that we forgot. You can tell when you are remembering a forgotten lesson when seemingly new understandings fall into place without too much struggle. Just coming to a new place of understanding changes things, it changes our perception and it changes the number of possibilities we can access.
It changes our perspective of what happened in the past, but also of what can happen in the future. So, I think that as things progress we can look forward to the "inevitable" turning into the "maybe" and from there eventually becoming the "don't worry about it".
What will happen will happen, but are we absolutely sure that our current knowledge of what will happen is complete? Or of the difference between what must happen, and the many versions of how that can happen?
As we keep peeling of layers of illusion our vision of the future will change until we get to the very heart of what boarder crossing is all about for those consciously transforming, and those remaining unconscious.
As Don said, it is the world that is undergoing the transition. And at this point we are only glimpsing shadows of what a 4D world really means, and many of those are distorted. Imagine it this way: why does a person do the work? Answer that question, and then apply it to a world. I think it is safe to say that on some level at least we are not dragged along by forces beyond our control. We are part and parcel of those forcing answering our own call to get beyond a state of existence that has outworn itself.
So consider the few that will "make it" in another light: as the few that will ground/anchor the shift in and for the world. If the whole point were to abandon ship, there would be no point. That is not how a creative Universe works. Right now our world is a composit of 1st, 2nd and 3rd densities. Actually, there are beings with 4D access already here, and areas where 4D access is available.
So a world that embodies densities from 1 through 4 is not farfetched. The world does not shift densities. It grows into them, and everytime it grows into a higher one, all the ones beneath are affected as well. And each shift was more rapid than the one before. Think of the billions of years until the establishment of a 1st density planetary body, and the hundreds of millions of years till 2nd density became dominant. Then within a million years (by some accounts) third density manifested, and it only took the last ten thousand for it to reach a coherent form as civilized humanity.
Although time spans can be contested the point is that each transition is far shorter than the last. And 3D introduces the factor of individualized consciousness, which changes the playing field. Consider that the shift is already occuring, and since 4D is far more fluid than 3D, the version we will encounter is also shifting the closer we get to it.
The predictions regarding the 3-4D transition are what might be, and just the fact that you are questioning it can underline a sense that you are aware of this on some level. As for the other locator theory, consider that out of all species on earth, only one made it into the position of conscousness to access 4D directly.
Only one could embody what was a great challenge, probably because this is not something easily undertaken. So I wonder about other locators. Statistically possible...maybe. But you need to consider that if you can't make it here, why should you make it anywhere else. At the same time, if you can't make it here, others WILL, and that will change the course of evolution for everyone.
So look into the unknown and smile. It aint all that bad. :)
We all have things to learn, but we also are coming to remember lessons that we forgot. You can tell when you are remembering a forgotten lesson when seemingly new understandings fall into place without too much struggle. Just coming to a new place of understanding changes things, it changes our perception and it changes the number of possibilities we can access.
It changes our perspective of what happened in the past, but also of what can happen in the future. So, I think that as things progress we can look forward to the "inevitable" turning into the "maybe" and from there eventually becoming the "don't worry about it".
What will happen will happen, but are we absolutely sure that our current knowledge of what will happen is complete? Or of the difference between what must happen, and the many versions of how that can happen?
As we keep peeling of layers of illusion our vision of the future will change until we get to the very heart of what boarder crossing is all about for those consciously transforming, and those remaining unconscious.
As Don said, it is the world that is undergoing the transition. And at this point we are only glimpsing shadows of what a 4D world really means, and many of those are distorted. Imagine it this way: why does a person do the work? Answer that question, and then apply it to a world. I think it is safe to say that on some level at least we are not dragged along by forces beyond our control. We are part and parcel of those forcing answering our own call to get beyond a state of existence that has outworn itself.
So consider the few that will "make it" in another light: as the few that will ground/anchor the shift in and for the world. If the whole point were to abandon ship, there would be no point. That is not how a creative Universe works. Right now our world is a composit of 1st, 2nd and 3rd densities. Actually, there are beings with 4D access already here, and areas where 4D access is available.
So a world that embodies densities from 1 through 4 is not farfetched. The world does not shift densities. It grows into them, and everytime it grows into a higher one, all the ones beneath are affected as well. And each shift was more rapid than the one before. Think of the billions of years until the establishment of a 1st density planetary body, and the hundreds of millions of years till 2nd density became dominant. Then within a million years (by some accounts) third density manifested, and it only took the last ten thousand for it to reach a coherent form as civilized humanity.
Although time spans can be contested the point is that each transition is far shorter than the last. And 3D introduces the factor of individualized consciousness, which changes the playing field. Consider that the shift is already occuring, and since 4D is far more fluid than 3D, the version we will encounter is also shifting the closer we get to it.
The predictions regarding the 3-4D transition are what might be, and just the fact that you are questioning it can underline a sense that you are aware of this on some level. As for the other locator theory, consider that out of all species on earth, only one made it into the position of conscousness to access 4D directly.
Only one could embody what was a great challenge, probably because this is not something easily undertaken. So I wonder about other locators. Statistically possible...maybe. But you need to consider that if you can't make it here, why should you make it anywhere else. At the same time, if you can't make it here, others WILL, and that will change the course of evolution for everyone.
So look into the unknown and smile. It aint all that bad. :)
T
tschai
Guest
Thanks EQ.
Actually my question regarding another locator was in response to the C's stating the Wave offered an opportunity for all 3D beings-and I kind of got the impression they were implying that beings from other locators would be coming here some how to take advantage of this-and also got the impression they were sort of in advance of the Wave-riding the crest-like a surfer rides the crest of a wave.
Perhaps I did not grasp the concept correctly-but if they were to do this, they would require the technology (i.e. space craft or some method of transport-heck maybe the TARDIS or something-who knows) but this has nothing to do with meditation per se, was just a weird little aside.
I was really intrigued by Pescado's post regarding J. Krishnamurtis' work-and really enjoyed his explanation of the process-but I did not get the sense he was saying the emptiness / stillness was the end product of the meditation-I rather sensed (and I believe stated in one of the excerpts) that this was the point to go BEYOND-when one reaches the stillness. Of course I haven't read the total works-on ly these few excerpts-so do not have the extent of familiarity.
You state that you have reached this point-the stillness-and have gone beyond. What did you experience, when this happened? I realize the experience will be different for everyone-but it is intriguing to learn about another's experience-have you ever met your "other" persona? Have you ever encountered "other" conciousness in such journies?
Actually my question regarding another locator was in response to the C's stating the Wave offered an opportunity for all 3D beings-and I kind of got the impression they were implying that beings from other locators would be coming here some how to take advantage of this-and also got the impression they were sort of in advance of the Wave-riding the crest-like a surfer rides the crest of a wave.
Perhaps I did not grasp the concept correctly-but if they were to do this, they would require the technology (i.e. space craft or some method of transport-heck maybe the TARDIS or something-who knows) but this has nothing to do with meditation per se, was just a weird little aside.
I was really intrigued by Pescado's post regarding J. Krishnamurtis' work-and really enjoyed his explanation of the process-but I did not get the sense he was saying the emptiness / stillness was the end product of the meditation-I rather sensed (and I believe stated in one of the excerpts) that this was the point to go BEYOND-when one reaches the stillness. Of course I haven't read the total works-on ly these few excerpts-so do not have the extent of familiarity.
You state that you have reached this point-the stillness-and have gone beyond. What did you experience, when this happened? I realize the experience will be different for everyone-but it is intriguing to learn about another's experience-have you ever met your "other" persona? Have you ever encountered "other" conciousness in such journies?
G
Guest
Guest
In case I gave that impression, I wasn't knocking Krishnamurti. In fact, I started meditation when someone recommended Krishnamurti to me during my freshman week in college.
Here is my take: A horizon or frontier is not a point, but a wide expanse. Although any path will take you on a road that never ends, not every road approaches the ever expanding horizon in the same way.
Krishnamurti, and many mystics, for example, experience a transcendence of personal identity to the extent that such a concept is meaningless. These mystics, like K, rarely if ever use the personal "I" pronoun to reference themselves. This actually constitutes a neurologic shift that can occur at a certain point in some forms of meditation.
In this deconditioned perspective, there is no more differentiated personal self. And the personal body is really not our body anymore but A body that carries our expanded reference of self. Because of this, we do not identify with desire or even sensation as "our" desire and sensation.
These reorganizations of perception often entail inner upheavals, identified as kundalini awakening experiences. Just what is a kundalini awakening experience, however, varies as much as the concept of meditation. In K's case, I think this was a radical deconditioning that led to a different orientation of awareness.
As Pescado said, observation is one way to stillness. Beyond stillness, furthermore, is the experience of living consciousness that is like a vibrant field transcending concepts of localization in space and/or time. Now when we say BEYOND, what does this mean? Over a circle of possibilites, any direction extended to infinity from the center entails this BEYOND. What I am saying is that every path, however profound, addresses only ONE of the possibilities of BEYOND.
This counters the belief that all roads lead to the same place. Yes, they do, but in that sense we are there already. All IS one, but there are degrees, and transcendent systems of that oneness.
The challenge is that when you take a method to a point that is right for you, will you be willing to shift gears and address things that your first method did not? K's method, of course, is a non-method. Methodology is quite de-emphasized in that understanding. The way is highly unstructured, which is why I was drawn to it, since I have difficulty with following a menu. Yet it is still a WAY.
For example, take a traditional technique such as mantra chanting. This has degenerated into repetitive mechanisms that are useless except to put one to sleep. That is not, however, how they started, and there are hints by sages that indicate there is more to a mantra than just chanting it. A mantra is a vibratory stimulus that requires a certain awareness similar to meditative silence. When you approach the mantra from that perspective the stimulus is channeled through the body and mind as an energy. You enter this energy and become it, and it opens a doorway of being. Simple as that.
The Kahunas in Hawaii experience an energy called Manna. This is highly magnified terrestrial energy, due to the volcanic nature of the islands, and the unique proximity and interaction between magma and ocean. When you sense manna, you sense the sentience of the planet. Mystics do not usually connect or even validate such energies as worthy of connection. Many call the world of such energies an illusion, or a play.
Of course, anything I may say on the matter, another may counter with "well you just haven't experienced it deep enough". Even so, a mystic of consciousness experiencing the Divine within matter has a different experience than a certain type of shaman like the kahuna, who is emersed in the flows of nature.
Another example: Taoist masters will, furthermore, tell you that earth yin is cold energy, and sky yang is hot. When you follow their directions, this is precisely what you feel, and it is not imagination. You can think hot and your feet will still feel cold. Yet manna in the huna sense is warm energy. When the hula is danced in Hawaii it is the manna that dances the women, and in fact only those who are sensitive to it are chosen for the sacred dances.
A friend of mine who lives there met a girl who is considered the most favoured of the hula this year, and she described it like Tai Chi. The wind and the earth meet in your body, and you just let it move you, with the hips as pivot points. And you become one with it, there is no thought, only manna, and this manna is alive and the lifeblood of the earth, very dense and tangible.
Yet, this is not an experience of consciousness, such as what one gains from silence. It is a body-awareness closer to animal sentience, but of a higher level human variety. While consciousness expands into a vast field, sentience or nature flows in a more structured yet fluid manner. And both are part of the same spectrum of yin and yang (where yin is not the nasty "dark" in this case, but the receptivity of nature).
It is hard to describe, and when someone has not tested varied paths (which is not easy to do) there is no common reference frame to base such descriptions. I thought I should mention it so people keep an open mind, that when something is discovered that seems IT, it is best to consider that it is only IT for now, and that the esoteric world has many varieties of what one might consider the ULTIMATE.
You end up with a more balanced perspective when you can balance the wonder with a practical realism that its all really just par for the course.
Basically, it is best not to get lost in one method or one teacher, but test opposite ends of the spectrum (which is what most teachers advise against, so I am a bit heretical there). And by opposite ends I do not mean good and evil polarities, but earth and sky, spirit and nature, sight and touch.
Stillness is a first step actually. The point of it is to experience the Presence of being through your mind, feeling and senses. Again, there is stillness of mind, stillness of feeling energy, and stillness of body-awareness. All three provide different acesses to stillness, and open different worlds of Beyondness. Ideally they must merge, and if this was easily done or easily "taught" the world would have changed already.
Similarly, opening to certain states is best approached from the standpoint that all is natural. There is in fact a mystical experience where one becomes GOD. In this state one merges with the infinite, but does not loose personal reference. I playfully call it sitting on the throne. STS has wet dreams over this state. They think it is the pinnacle. There is no pinnacle, however. Most magician types manage to tweak their cortex a bit, make a few stories around the tweaks, and call it a divine experience. So the only throne they end up on is the one where you read the newspaper in the morning.
I've seen others touch upon the experience, and for ever after think they are Christ or the chosen one of our ET bretheren. You know this is all bull because both the Christ representation and the ET one, as with any god or near-god concept, are all within the box. They all reference Matrix program.
That is why describing these things is really futile. This is not evasiveness on my part. The reason for this futility is that such descriptions are meaningless unless you can imagine a world without a Matrix. Meditation helps in this, but when you follow one method and teaching you open only one window of the world outside the matrix, and although the view is infinite in extent, it is still a different view than if you open a window at another point in the Matrix.
So you approach a sense of what a world would be like with no matrix, by accessing different windows. With a few references you can get a sense of expanding your circle of being unilaterally instead of at one point. Desribing all this is kinda like having a baby predict life outside the womb from all the sounds and vibrations it might pick up there.
As far as meeting "others" is concerned, it depends. Stories of beings passing each other by on the grand heavenly freeways are pretty much that. I'll try to give you one experience that might be relatable. Upon meditating once I wanted to go to the heights, I craved for them. I felt a disorientation and felt like I was rising, although I was aware of my body.
After this sense of rising leveled off what opened up to me was an expanse of what you might call living luminous geomentries. These formed flows and groupings that defied three dimensions, but trying to even remember this again is like remembering a forgotten dream, in the sense that my waking awareness cannot relate HOW they defied three dimensions, just that they seems to be flowing into each other.
What was amazing was that vision was only one sense of experience. The reality was one of living vibratory patterning. You might call it a musical choral presence, where the "songs" were full of meaning and purpose, and where the colors were just another version of the song. You could extend this to all senses, but it was more difficult to approach this vibrational domain from a tactile perspective, where it would be as tangible as the nose in front of your face.
I felt a tug, and "saw" behind me what amounted to a loooong slide or ladder or something like a double helix like DNA. And faaaar below I saw a tiny earth, that lay within this ladder or slide, and at that point the ladder was chipped. There was a triangular chip taken out, and because of that the experience of this realm was incomplete. In fact its like cutting a wire in a circuit. One cut and the current goes out.
Here the cut wasn't final, but (in the analogy) created much heat at the point of the chip. I gather the ladder was a representation of the continuity of existence, and that there is a partial break here, and this break did not allow the song to be heard or felt at this level.
When I returned from the experience I was not disoriented, and did not feel like it was any big deal. Just: "Oh, things aren't as simple as I thought". Just another piece of the puzzle. The problem is, those poor STS folks would be mightily dissapointed if they realized that self-importance is not wrong, just meaningless, from any non-matrix perspective. When you realize just how meaningless it is, you tend to laugh at the whole concept as a waste of energy and existence.
It doesn't make you better than anyone else, just privy to a certain well-known fact outside of the STS way of thinking. You know, kinda like someone from another planet wondering why everybody flips out about gold here when it happens to be common as dust elsewhere.
Here is my take: A horizon or frontier is not a point, but a wide expanse. Although any path will take you on a road that never ends, not every road approaches the ever expanding horizon in the same way.
Krishnamurti, and many mystics, for example, experience a transcendence of personal identity to the extent that such a concept is meaningless. These mystics, like K, rarely if ever use the personal "I" pronoun to reference themselves. This actually constitutes a neurologic shift that can occur at a certain point in some forms of meditation.
In this deconditioned perspective, there is no more differentiated personal self. And the personal body is really not our body anymore but A body that carries our expanded reference of self. Because of this, we do not identify with desire or even sensation as "our" desire and sensation.
These reorganizations of perception often entail inner upheavals, identified as kundalini awakening experiences. Just what is a kundalini awakening experience, however, varies as much as the concept of meditation. In K's case, I think this was a radical deconditioning that led to a different orientation of awareness.
As Pescado said, observation is one way to stillness. Beyond stillness, furthermore, is the experience of living consciousness that is like a vibrant field transcending concepts of localization in space and/or time. Now when we say BEYOND, what does this mean? Over a circle of possibilites, any direction extended to infinity from the center entails this BEYOND. What I am saying is that every path, however profound, addresses only ONE of the possibilities of BEYOND.
This counters the belief that all roads lead to the same place. Yes, they do, but in that sense we are there already. All IS one, but there are degrees, and transcendent systems of that oneness.
The challenge is that when you take a method to a point that is right for you, will you be willing to shift gears and address things that your first method did not? K's method, of course, is a non-method. Methodology is quite de-emphasized in that understanding. The way is highly unstructured, which is why I was drawn to it, since I have difficulty with following a menu. Yet it is still a WAY.
For example, take a traditional technique such as mantra chanting. This has degenerated into repetitive mechanisms that are useless except to put one to sleep. That is not, however, how they started, and there are hints by sages that indicate there is more to a mantra than just chanting it. A mantra is a vibratory stimulus that requires a certain awareness similar to meditative silence. When you approach the mantra from that perspective the stimulus is channeled through the body and mind as an energy. You enter this energy and become it, and it opens a doorway of being. Simple as that.
The Kahunas in Hawaii experience an energy called Manna. This is highly magnified terrestrial energy, due to the volcanic nature of the islands, and the unique proximity and interaction between magma and ocean. When you sense manna, you sense the sentience of the planet. Mystics do not usually connect or even validate such energies as worthy of connection. Many call the world of such energies an illusion, or a play.
Of course, anything I may say on the matter, another may counter with "well you just haven't experienced it deep enough". Even so, a mystic of consciousness experiencing the Divine within matter has a different experience than a certain type of shaman like the kahuna, who is emersed in the flows of nature.
Another example: Taoist masters will, furthermore, tell you that earth yin is cold energy, and sky yang is hot. When you follow their directions, this is precisely what you feel, and it is not imagination. You can think hot and your feet will still feel cold. Yet manna in the huna sense is warm energy. When the hula is danced in Hawaii it is the manna that dances the women, and in fact only those who are sensitive to it are chosen for the sacred dances.
A friend of mine who lives there met a girl who is considered the most favoured of the hula this year, and she described it like Tai Chi. The wind and the earth meet in your body, and you just let it move you, with the hips as pivot points. And you become one with it, there is no thought, only manna, and this manna is alive and the lifeblood of the earth, very dense and tangible.
Yet, this is not an experience of consciousness, such as what one gains from silence. It is a body-awareness closer to animal sentience, but of a higher level human variety. While consciousness expands into a vast field, sentience or nature flows in a more structured yet fluid manner. And both are part of the same spectrum of yin and yang (where yin is not the nasty "dark" in this case, but the receptivity of nature).
It is hard to describe, and when someone has not tested varied paths (which is not easy to do) there is no common reference frame to base such descriptions. I thought I should mention it so people keep an open mind, that when something is discovered that seems IT, it is best to consider that it is only IT for now, and that the esoteric world has many varieties of what one might consider the ULTIMATE.
You end up with a more balanced perspective when you can balance the wonder with a practical realism that its all really just par for the course.
Basically, it is best not to get lost in one method or one teacher, but test opposite ends of the spectrum (which is what most teachers advise against, so I am a bit heretical there). And by opposite ends I do not mean good and evil polarities, but earth and sky, spirit and nature, sight and touch.
Stillness is a first step actually. The point of it is to experience the Presence of being through your mind, feeling and senses. Again, there is stillness of mind, stillness of feeling energy, and stillness of body-awareness. All three provide different acesses to stillness, and open different worlds of Beyondness. Ideally they must merge, and if this was easily done or easily "taught" the world would have changed already.
Jeez, I hope I didn't sound pretentious when I said that. Reading it now makes it seem like I made a big claim. You know we live in times when what formerly took ages to accomplish comes through quite quickly. Part of that is because we are used to "miracles" of science and technology that would have blown away ancient peoples (with the acception of those who had their own "miraculous" expressions).Tschai said:
Similarly, opening to certain states is best approached from the standpoint that all is natural. There is in fact a mystical experience where one becomes GOD. In this state one merges with the infinite, but does not loose personal reference. I playfully call it sitting on the throne. STS has wet dreams over this state. They think it is the pinnacle. There is no pinnacle, however. Most magician types manage to tweak their cortex a bit, make a few stories around the tweaks, and call it a divine experience. So the only throne they end up on is the one where you read the newspaper in the morning.
I've seen others touch upon the experience, and for ever after think they are Christ or the chosen one of our ET bretheren. You know this is all bull because both the Christ representation and the ET one, as with any god or near-god concept, are all within the box. They all reference Matrix program.
That is why describing these things is really futile. This is not evasiveness on my part. The reason for this futility is that such descriptions are meaningless unless you can imagine a world without a Matrix. Meditation helps in this, but when you follow one method and teaching you open only one window of the world outside the matrix, and although the view is infinite in extent, it is still a different view than if you open a window at another point in the Matrix.
So you approach a sense of what a world would be like with no matrix, by accessing different windows. With a few references you can get a sense of expanding your circle of being unilaterally instead of at one point. Desribing all this is kinda like having a baby predict life outside the womb from all the sounds and vibrations it might pick up there.
As far as meeting "others" is concerned, it depends. Stories of beings passing each other by on the grand heavenly freeways are pretty much that. I'll try to give you one experience that might be relatable. Upon meditating once I wanted to go to the heights, I craved for them. I felt a disorientation and felt like I was rising, although I was aware of my body.
After this sense of rising leveled off what opened up to me was an expanse of what you might call living luminous geomentries. These formed flows and groupings that defied three dimensions, but trying to even remember this again is like remembering a forgotten dream, in the sense that my waking awareness cannot relate HOW they defied three dimensions, just that they seems to be flowing into each other.
What was amazing was that vision was only one sense of experience. The reality was one of living vibratory patterning. You might call it a musical choral presence, where the "songs" were full of meaning and purpose, and where the colors were just another version of the song. You could extend this to all senses, but it was more difficult to approach this vibrational domain from a tactile perspective, where it would be as tangible as the nose in front of your face.
I felt a tug, and "saw" behind me what amounted to a loooong slide or ladder or something like a double helix like DNA. And faaaar below I saw a tiny earth, that lay within this ladder or slide, and at that point the ladder was chipped. There was a triangular chip taken out, and because of that the experience of this realm was incomplete. In fact its like cutting a wire in a circuit. One cut and the current goes out.
Here the cut wasn't final, but (in the analogy) created much heat at the point of the chip. I gather the ladder was a representation of the continuity of existence, and that there is a partial break here, and this break did not allow the song to be heard or felt at this level.
When I returned from the experience I was not disoriented, and did not feel like it was any big deal. Just: "Oh, things aren't as simple as I thought". Just another piece of the puzzle. The problem is, those poor STS folks would be mightily dissapointed if they realized that self-importance is not wrong, just meaningless, from any non-matrix perspective. When you realize just how meaningless it is, you tend to laugh at the whole concept as a waste of energy and existence.
It doesn't make you better than anyone else, just privy to a certain well-known fact outside of the STS way of thinking. You know, kinda like someone from another planet wondering why everybody flips out about gold here when it happens to be common as dust elsewhere.
T
tschai
Guest
FIRSTLY-NO you did not sound at all pretentious-and I know what you mean about trying to recall something that happened a long time ago.
I understand the Kahuna connection to the "Earth power"-I believe the Native Americans also have the same type of ability experienced through their "visions"-and I am certain their experience is a lot more than any of these so called New Age "shamans"and quacks have ever experienced. I think all of us are sensitive to the pulse and rythm of Earth-and the cosmos-if only we can learn to listen.
Perhaps a persons make-up based on their DNA / Cultural background also dictates in some way how that person will achieve getting "there"-but I would think also the person could more or less control the process, after achieving a certain proficiency-be able to go outside that box, as it were-if they so desire.
Going back to the bit about mantras-I am sure you are right about this, based on my own experience-I have at times started humming-no tune-just a tone-and adjusted the tone until I felt like something was happening-I'll bet someone who is really adept could reach that state of "oneness" by doing this-especially knowing what we do about the ancients use of sound waves-they may have actually initiated many of their "power" rituals in such a fashion-by chanting or singing to wake up the stones or open dimensionsal portals-engaging in astral travel.
The Dervishes so I understand actually were supposed to be able to open such "star gates" through their singing and wild spinning dances-a type of meditation I suppose.
Like you say-there are many different paths-and what ever works, I guess-and as long as it works and you are comfortable with it, then utilize it. I myself have never been very good at meditating-but I do talk to myself-a LOT- which for me is a way of working out things. Gets me a lot of stares-I don't realize I'm muttering away sometimes-and often (according to my wife) speak out loud-she wants to know who the hell I'm talking to?
But I read recently that this is (thank goodness) perfectly normal-actually is healthy-as long as the voice you hear is YOURS-when someone else starts to answer, you have a problem!
I wrote somewhere else in the posts about my "I am God" excercise-to sit and simply try to imagine what it would be like to be everywhere at once-and how best to accomplish this monumental task-but I never really believed I WAS God-or a God-I began doing this as a young child because I simply could not comprehend-nor believe how someone could BE everywhere and everything at ONCE-it defied all logic. I guess that was "meditation" or as close as I have ever come to it-trying to imagine myself as ALL-but we are just not able to do that-physitists can map hyperdimenionsal "landscapes"and that is really pushing the limits of most minds-but that is where everything lies! Math is the true language of creation-I unfortunately, did not do well at it in shcool-never got the hang of the slide rule (dammit!) I might be able to do it now (with the help of a fancy calculator-hurrah for the microchip!)but back to the subject-this is a form of meditation too, I think-pondering the mathematical make-up of the Universe-and trying to figure out what makes it tick is Nirvana to some.
So, it really does seem that there are many paths and methods-maybe it just depends on WHERE you want to GO that dictates HOW.
I understand the Kahuna connection to the "Earth power"-I believe the Native Americans also have the same type of ability experienced through their "visions"-and I am certain their experience is a lot more than any of these so called New Age "shamans"and quacks have ever experienced. I think all of us are sensitive to the pulse and rythm of Earth-and the cosmos-if only we can learn to listen.
Perhaps a persons make-up based on their DNA / Cultural background also dictates in some way how that person will achieve getting "there"-but I would think also the person could more or less control the process, after achieving a certain proficiency-be able to go outside that box, as it were-if they so desire.
Going back to the bit about mantras-I am sure you are right about this, based on my own experience-I have at times started humming-no tune-just a tone-and adjusted the tone until I felt like something was happening-I'll bet someone who is really adept could reach that state of "oneness" by doing this-especially knowing what we do about the ancients use of sound waves-they may have actually initiated many of their "power" rituals in such a fashion-by chanting or singing to wake up the stones or open dimensionsal portals-engaging in astral travel.
The Dervishes so I understand actually were supposed to be able to open such "star gates" through their singing and wild spinning dances-a type of meditation I suppose.
Like you say-there are many different paths-and what ever works, I guess-and as long as it works and you are comfortable with it, then utilize it. I myself have never been very good at meditating-but I do talk to myself-a LOT- which for me is a way of working out things. Gets me a lot of stares-I don't realize I'm muttering away sometimes-and often (according to my wife) speak out loud-she wants to know who the hell I'm talking to?
But I read recently that this is (thank goodness) perfectly normal-actually is healthy-as long as the voice you hear is YOURS-when someone else starts to answer, you have a problem!
I wrote somewhere else in the posts about my "I am God" excercise-to sit and simply try to imagine what it would be like to be everywhere at once-and how best to accomplish this monumental task-but I never really believed I WAS God-or a God-I began doing this as a young child because I simply could not comprehend-nor believe how someone could BE everywhere and everything at ONCE-it defied all logic. I guess that was "meditation" or as close as I have ever come to it-trying to imagine myself as ALL-but we are just not able to do that-physitists can map hyperdimenionsal "landscapes"and that is really pushing the limits of most minds-but that is where everything lies! Math is the true language of creation-I unfortunately, did not do well at it in shcool-never got the hang of the slide rule (dammit!) I might be able to do it now (with the help of a fancy calculator-hurrah for the microchip!)but back to the subject-this is a form of meditation too, I think-pondering the mathematical make-up of the Universe-and trying to figure out what makes it tick is Nirvana to some.
So, it really does seem that there are many paths and methods-maybe it just depends on WHERE you want to GO that dictates HOW.
Novelis
Jedi Master
Thanks guys, much food for thought here.
EQ Said:
That is why describing these things is really futile. This is not evasiveness on my part. The reason for this futility is that such descriptions are meaningless unless you can imagine a world without a Matrix.
Spot on! I felt the same way today while walking to work. I was in high spirits at the time when I started thinking about cosmological concepts I read recently in Maurice Nicoll's book on the commentaries of the forth way teachings, relating it with Tai chi... MY GOD! The "grander" perspective I realised was awesome (the true sense of the word).
I just wanted to yell it out to the world it was so magnificent, but it dawned on me very quickly that I only wished to "show" others what I know, a sense of self importance in other words. There is still a big part of me that wants to say: "Check me out, look what I did, give me praise... Oh PLEASE someone give me praise." (Salivating uncontrollably while saying this). ;)
At that moment I understood how pointless it was, I'd love to share it with people, but unless they have looked out of the same windows, then cross referenced them the same way, the whole essence, the true feeling of wonderment would be spoilt by verbal communication. The truth is, everyone who is searching is probably having similar feelings of ecstasy, and the point is appreciating the massively variable paths and coming together as one, that is how everything could change forever right?
There is so much to all of this!! SO MUCH!!
I suppose I'll have to leave it at that.
Man, wish I was telepathic...
EQ Said:
That is why describing these things is really futile. This is not evasiveness on my part. The reason for this futility is that such descriptions are meaningless unless you can imagine a world without a Matrix.
Spot on! I felt the same way today while walking to work. I was in high spirits at the time when I started thinking about cosmological concepts I read recently in Maurice Nicoll's book on the commentaries of the forth way teachings, relating it with Tai chi... MY GOD! The "grander" perspective I realised was awesome (the true sense of the word).
I just wanted to yell it out to the world it was so magnificent, but it dawned on me very quickly that I only wished to "show" others what I know, a sense of self importance in other words. There is still a big part of me that wants to say: "Check me out, look what I did, give me praise... Oh PLEASE someone give me praise." (Salivating uncontrollably while saying this). ;)
At that moment I understood how pointless it was, I'd love to share it with people, but unless they have looked out of the same windows, then cross referenced them the same way, the whole essence, the true feeling of wonderment would be spoilt by verbal communication. The truth is, everyone who is searching is probably having similar feelings of ecstasy, and the point is appreciating the massively variable paths and coming together as one, that is how everything could change forever right?
There is so much to all of this!! SO MUCH!!
I suppose I'll have to leave it at that.
Man, wish I was telepathic...
T
The Gardener
Guest
Hello tschai. I would like to ask, why you feel dissapointed here?tschai said:
I think maybe because once one has escaped (awaken), this one can help escpae many many others (as Ann said), and this ones on turn, many more... like a Wave.tschai said:
This is why it is so trully crucial for us, as individual persons, to give our best to achive some level, to at least recognize when other is helping us to escape.
This is why to "graduate" should not be a personal thing: One has to awake, as a person, individually, of course. What for? Is not for what lyes ahead of you (the horizon), but for what lyes behind: The rest of the world.
The Life.
Zaratustra came back from the mountain. All teachings are about this: To find a liberation or awakening, is by nature a STO endeavour.
This "return" is to humanity. Because there is nothing beyond humanity on our direct interest (in short or large scale) as group. This is why, I think, all those spiritual diets aiming to a territory outside and beyond and ahead the humanity (all those "better" places), are COINTELRPO manouvers, inviting the humans to actually abbandon the Earth in a broad sence: The promessed land is the Earth in its courrent state.
We, on our courrent state, are the fruits of such a Paradise.
Some of this fruits are mature and delicious. Some of us, green fruits, who have seen this mature fruits wondering around, want to emulate and wonder how they did it. And you know what they think? They think this world is beautiful.
I think meditation is the way to become mature and delicious.