SOTT/Cassiopaea beliefs about 9/11?

GoldenV said:
Nothing is outdated, all information is good information :)
By that statement disinformation is good information. But how will you know what is truth and what is lies? And what if it leads you down a path of wasting years of your time?

To me there is value in the fruits of networking and the resulting recommended reading list: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=4718

GoldenV said:
I want to read the Urantia book because its something i haven't read.. sounds silly, but thats the only way i can put it.
But there are so many books you haven't read. Where does it stop?

GoldenV said:
I need to get my hands on as much information as possible from a variety of different sources before i reach any sort of conclusions
When do you decide where that point of having enough information is? How would you know?

GoldenV said:
and begin applying what i've learnt to my own life. I aim to read the Bible at some point too lol.
Which version are you going to read and how will you decide?

GoldenV said:
Appreciate your comments btw, but yeh, im more interested in the "hows" of 9/11 rather than the "why/who". You can't begin too point the fingers until you know the forensic side of it.. least thats how i work when i investigate things (i need too get my hands on all the info/evidence before i conclude).
But the why/who will also tell you more about the how. Chances are we will never know all the details of the how and then what are you going to do?
 
domivr said:
By that statement disinformation is good information. But how will you know what is truth and what is lies? And what if it leads you down a path of wasting years of your time?
Meh, the world is going to change anyway, there is no such thing as waisted time, so long as im doing what my heart tells me :) By having read more information i will be better able to make judgements on all the information absorbed.. cross referencing etc. Define "wasted time"? There is no goal to be achieved other than to simply "be".. everything is a learning process, even the process of not believeing that and going on another path. Its all part of the same thing.. learning :)

domivr said:
But there are so many books you haven't read. Where does it stop?
I know. I will continue to keep reading, probing the avenues of interest that peak my attention. And no, it does not stop, because one can not know everything. But by reading more, one can expand his/her own awareness, and thus increase the potential for themselves.

domivr said:
When do you decide where that point of having enough information is? How would you know?
Again, who said there is an end to the learning process? Even people like Ram Dass are still learning.

domivr said:
Which version are you going to read and how will you decide?
The cheaper English version. I will probably get ahold of the Sumerian texts aswell at some point. I know before i even start that some of the meaning will be lost too time and translation, but that does not bother me. I still could gain valuable insight either way.

domivr said:
But the why/who will also tell you more about the how. Chances are we will never know all the details of the how and then what are you going to do?
OK. So Zionists were involved.. i knew that already, but that does not help explain how the towers were demolished, or what hit the Pentagon if anything, or what happened in Shanksville..

I think you underestimate the importance of the actual evidence of the "how".. its one thing to point the finger, but if you can not put together a coherent hypothesis of the days events, then you have no ground to even point the finger in the first place.

The "hows" are equally as important as the "whos/whys"..

If people knew how the towers were demolished, then the truth could move one step further to coming out into the public eye, do you not agree?
 
GoldenV said:
so long as im doing what my heart tells me
Does your heart tell you to think logically?

GoldenV said:
I think you underestimate the importance of the actual evidence of the "how"
I think you overestimate the importance of how. You seem to be putting quite a bit of energy into trying to force us to think as you do as well. Interesting.

GoldenV said:
If people knew how the towers were demolished, then the truth could move one step further to coming out into the public eye, do you not agree?
Sorry, but that hypothesis is not supported by reality. The 'how' of the JFK assassination is right there for everyone to see and it doesn't change a thing. The psychopaths in power have a contingency lie for every exposed lie, and people will continue to believe the official stories for as long as it remains more comfortable than seeing the truth. Smoking gun evidence of the demolitions would be no different.
 
GoldenV said:
domivr said:
By that statement disinformation is good information. But how will you know what is truth and what is lies? And what if it leads you down a path of wasting years of your time?
Meh, the world is going to change anyway, there is no such thing as waisted time, so long as im doing what my heart tells me :) By having read more information i will be better able to make judgements on all the information absorbed.. cross referencing etc. Define "wasted time"?
Wasted time would be pursuing something based on the lies in a disinformation piece when a networking approach could have helped make a choice not taking that path to begin with.

GoldenV said:
There is no goal to be achieved other than to simply "be".. everything is a learning process, even the process of not believeing that and going on another path. Its all part of the same thing.. learning :)
Well, there is learning to serve others and learning to serve the self.

GoldenV said:
domivr said:
But there are so many books you haven't read. Where does it stop?
I know. I will continue to keep reading, probing the avenues of interest that peak my attention. And no, it does not stop, because one can not know everything. But by reading more, one can expand his/her own awareness, and thus increase the potential for themselves.
I meant it in the context of the "9/11 hows" because you said
GoldenV said:
i need too get my hands on all the info/evidence before i conclude
More info is being generated day after day on 9/11.

GoldenV said:
domivr said:
When do you decide where that point of having enough information is? How would you know?
Again, who said there is an end to the learning process? Even people like Ram Dass are still learning.
On the one hand you say learning never ends, but on the other hand you want all the info before you reach a conclusion, so how will you ever reach a conclusion. Seems like you will reading/gathering info forever.

GoldenV said:
domivr said:
But the why/who will also tell you more about the how. Chances are we will never know all the details of the how and then what are you going to do?
OK. So Zionists were involved.. i knew that already, but that does not help explain how the towers were demolished, or what hit the Pentagon if anything, or what happened in Shanksville..

I think you underestimate the importance of the actual evidence of the "how".. its one thing to point the finger, but if you can not put together a coherent hypothesis of the days events, then you have no ground to even point the finger in the first place.
There are coherent hypothesis out there based on the available data. When more data becomes available then the hypothesis can be adjusted or thrown out the window.

GoldenV said:
The "hows" are equally as important as the "whos/whys"..
Aren't the means subordinate to the goals?

GoldenV said:
If people knew how the towers were demolished, then the truth could move one step further to coming out into the public eye, do you not agree?
Some problems:
- some people don't want to know the truth and will fight you tooth and nail to keep their illusion going.
- the towers demolition truth can be co-opted and spun into something else. Do you think that the perpetrators will just roll over and play dead?
- Would the perps ever allow it to come to that?
 
GoldenV, it sounds like you want a ready packaged "instant answer" to THE most important, complex, highly-controversial, most deliberately undermined/confused/propagandized and misunderstood event of modern history.

like: "the butler did it, with the candlestick, in the library"

sorry mate, it just isn't that simple.

there is a wealth of info that has been painstakingly accumulated - it is all here and available, and some of it IS conclusive, and is NOT baselessly speculative - but if you don't see it that way, that's up to you - it is not up to anyone else to 'convince' you. If it is THAT important to you, you'll have to get on and absorb some of the more complex issues involved. The 'why' DOES make a difference to the 'how'. Much of the 'how' is very specifically and deliberately set up to be 'plausibly deniable', and if you're not prepared to explore all the issues then you WILL get led down the garden path.

it's totally up to you, and it's not anyone else's job to persuade or spoon-feed you.

a widespread condition of people being content to be spoonfed is why we're in this mess in the first place.
 
As for your main inquiry, I agree that Laura's book "9/11, The Ultimate Truth" would be the best comprehensive source. But I wanted to respond to a tangential comment you made in your post:

GoldenV said:
i also still have ALOT of stuff to read through, like the Urantia book for example, at over 2000 pages, will keep me occupied for quite some time.
I first came upon the Urantia Book in 1971 during my first year of college. Over the years I read a lot of it and was very impressed by it all. One of my defenses of it being superior to most "channeled" gibberish was that it contained so many pages of material that all seemed perfectly cohesive and was written in some of the most inspiring and well-articulated phrases I'd ever read in any religious text. I'd always joke, "if it's fiction, then whoever wrote it is a manic, literary genius!"

Jokes aside, that line of logic was actually one of the most convincing to me--that is--until 9/11. That lead to this site, which soon opened my eyes to see the vastness of those ambitious, disinforming forces at work in our world. A 2000-page book of disinfo would be child's play for time-travelling, hyperdimensional forces capable of splicing "holigraphic" inserts of fictitious history into our "reality" (as Barbara Marciniak's material describes the type advanced technology sustaining the matrix we call "reality")!

So, as I read the Cassiopaean material, I began re-evaluating The Urantia Book. I began to have less than 100% confidence in this amazing book that had confirmed many of my deep intuitions and inspired my imagination about the cosmos. Since it contained 2000 pages of channeled material providing detailed descriptions of "our local universe," I was surprised that I couldn't find any discussion of it on here. Despite that, I did succeed in my re-evaluation and wanted to share the insights that helped me:

1) I believe perhaps in the Wave Series, there was a discussion in which Laura inquired about the degree of accuracy of certain channeled material (e.g. Laura's Cassioapean material, the Ra material, and Marciniak's "Bringers of the Dawn"). In that discussion, the C's said that certain channeled sources are actually STS, often providing much accurate information when it serves their purposes.

2) Later, somewhere online, I came across an article about the history of The Urantia Book, which included convincing documentation of plagiarized sections included in The Urantia Book.

3) I noticed that The Urantia Book's material was either from a very macro point of view (e.g. organization of our local universe), or from a very micro point of view (e.g. original text of the 23rd Psalm). While I believe most of this is probably true, the concerning thing is that in those 2000 pages, there is nearly nothing written of practical value pertaining to very important issues for our current challenges "here and now."

For example, not a word is mentioned about any kind of "spiritual" dangers. In fact, it says since "Christ Michael" succeeded in reasserting dominion over Earth (Urantia), Midway Creatures that wreaked havoc in earlier days, could no longer "possess" human beings. No where are we warned of the matrix and manipulations of "hyperdimensional" beings.

Also, noticeably absent are discussions of any STS, although there is a discussion about adjudicating the Lucifer Rebellion (it was decided by some high council, after considering all alternatives, that it was wisest simply to let the rebellion run it's natural course to resolution, which would only take 430,000 years!)

As for STO, the sanctity of service to others is presented as a core spiritual value throughout. For example, "Forgiveness does not have to be sought, only received in the form of consciousness of re-establishment of loyal relations between the creature and the Creator. And all such children of God are happy, service-loving, and ever-progressive in the Paradise ascent. We must next look for those lures which will act as a stimulus to call forth man's slumbering spiritual forces...induce men to let go of "God" that he may spring forth to the refreshment of our own souls while in transit outward and then to serve the purpose of enlightening, uplifting, and blessing countless other souls."
4) Although I thought The Urantia Book's explanation of the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus was intriguing, sensible, and congruent with much I believe, it contradicts the C's view that there was no crucifixion.

5) Another contradictory topic is that of "Lucifer." Though The Urantia Book's version is a certainly a convincing elaboration of the traditional, arch-psychopathic character (it was with a "such a Declaration of Liberty that Lucifer launched his orgy or darkness and death." [cf. Bush and "Operation Iraqi Freedom"]). This contradicts the C's viewpoint that "we" the human race, are Lucifer who "fell."

6) Another aspect of The Urantia Book which calls it into question is something that at first, to lend credibility to the text. I'm referring to the factual recitation of the names of ancient people or places. Such "original" names could actually be true, but at times they seems fanciful or retro-created from modern names so as to seem to be the original version (if that makes any sense ;) ) For example, The "Material Daughter" Eve was seduced and impregnated by Serpentia, resulting in default of her mission; Havona is the center of the central universe, our ultimate destination; Salvington, Jerusem, and Edentia are "architectural spheres" [cf. to naturally-evolved] serving as "Training Worlds."

I still have enormous fascination and "respect" for much that's in The Urantia Book, but have come to conclude that though the topics are fascinating, overall, the book's purpose might be to distract us from the most urgent issues at hand. With many religions, there is little truth and lots of lies. With The Urantia Book, I think there's lots of truth and lots of omissions.

With that in mind, any discerning reader would be hard-pressed to not be impressed with beautifully-articulated descriptions of many fascinating macro- and micro-details of this grand cosmos. The material will certainly provide an excellent work-out for opening your mind to the nature of grander realities, as well as for perhaps practicing how to discern cosmic disinfo.

In fact, it would be great to hear Ark (or other scientists) comment on chapters such as these:

The Mind-Gravity Circuit
Ultamatons, Electrons, and Atoms
Paradise Gravity- Force, Energy, Power
Energy and Matter Transmutations
Pattern and Form - Mind Dominance
Calcium - The Wanderer of Space
Time and Eternity - Experiential Time Units
Nebulae - The Ancestors of Universes
Space Respiration - Unpervaded Space

As well as hear Laura (or other researchers) comment on chapters such as these:

The Six Sangik Races of Urantia
The Andites of Turkestan
Yahweh and Baal
Techniques For Terrestrial Escape - The Group Order of Survival
Domains of Unqualified Absolute
The Seven Paradise Classifications of Living Beings:
IV: Eventuated Transcendental Beings [4D?]
VI: Superpersonal Beings [6D?]
Spirit-Fused Mortals - Techniques of Memory Reconstruction
Transition Ministers: Recorder-Teachers of Truth and Fact
[is this what Laura was commissioned to be in her "cleft in the rock" vision in which she
received the necklace-pendant on the condition she'd always speak only the truth? ;) ]
(As for your exhausted "book buying" budget, if you still have your receipt for The Urantia Book, to save money, you might return it and read it online. It's on their site, which includes a great search function, invaluable for those 2000 pages--the Table of Contents is 40 pages alone! http://urantiabook.org/newbook/ ).
 
GoldenV said:
I thought the 2nd link had some very indepth stuff, but i've seen that thing with Cat Herder aaaages ago. But again, there wasn't really anything in there that hinted towards what the true opinion is of SOTT/Cassiopaea.. it all just seemed like a rant towards CatHerders analysis and the Zionists. Whilst im not sticking up for the Zionists, i do feel it was just a little bit OTT in regards to Zionism..

Could someone take a few jabs at my questions, please? Thanks.
And...

GoldenV said:
Hmmm, i don't want to sound offensive to your question of "does it answer my question", but no lol. I agree pretty much with what you said, but im more interested in what the members and/or staff here believe actually happened in regards to the different events that took place.
Yeah, call me very suspicious. But why are you really pressing, so very hard, for what the members/Staff and/or SOTT/Cassiopaea think, or their true opinions as you said?

It just seems to be VERY IMPORTANT for you to know what they are thinking on this subject. I don't know why, but it has little warning bells ringing all over the place for me. But, like I said, I do tend to be a suspicious person. ;)

And if you like to read, it is all there in 9/11 the Ultimate Truth. If you want so very much to know what SotT and all think, that's where you will find all the answers. And by the way your are sounding, you are so very interested in this subject that I can't see how the price of the book would stop you from buying it to quench your curiosity.

So why the pressing desire for the members/SotT team to tell you their "true opinions"? Just curious.
 
I am wondering if GoldenV sees SOTT or Cassiopaea as an "authoritative source" and therefore wishes simply to know the "gist" of things so it can be automatically incorporated into his "opinion" and re-presented to others as "his own"? After all, one doesn't need the finer details to do this. However, if you are serious about Truth, the details must always be examined. So I see GoldenV's lack of interest in details as being somewhat symptomatic here.

It's all well and good to assign a higher degree of "probable truth" to sources you trust, but it can easily become a trap of automatic regurgitation without any critical analysis. It is good to consistently re-visit and examine our reasons for why "trusted sources" are designated as such, osit.
 
GoldenV said:
But its not though.. i read through the links posted by Beau i think it was, and all it talked about was the Zionists role in 9/11, and not really any of the specifics which i asked about, like how the towers were actually destroyed, what, if anything, hit the Pentagon etc..
and

GoldenV said:
I just looked through the Pentagon articles, and theres nothing concrete there.. all it says is that it definatly was not the plane they said crashed there, but then it just goes on to say how it mite have been a guided military craft or missile, but no definitive conclusion.. its all very open ended and open to speculation.
I think you are missing the point, GV. It's not our job - or anybody's - to give an answer as to what DID actually happen. We can only point out what did NOT happen, obviously.

In order to know what actually DID happen, one would have to be part of the conspiracy itself. And in order to find out those details, a legitimate forensic investigation needs to be conducted. That has never been done.

I notice that you want to know "beliefs" about 911. Why do you think that one should have "beliefs"? It isn't necessary to have "beliefs." One only needs to have what data is available and posit a few conjectures and leave the rest open for more data.

I know that this is an uncomfortable state for some people, but it is the most honest way to deal with the unknown. After all, if you form "beliefs" and then additional data contradicts those beliefs, it can be difficult to let go of them.

GoldenV said:
I already knew that no Boeing hit the Pentagon, but personally i see no evidence to substantiate anything having hit the Pentagon.
You may be right. The Pentagon may have been "bombed" from within and everything else was just distraction. But we don't know that for a fact.

GoldenV said:
The articles are based on the assumption that the eye witnesses are reliable, and even have a grain of truth to the statements.
And that is a reasonable approach at this point. Even if the witnesses provide contradictory reports, there is a strong suggestion that something did actually strike the Pentagon. But again, that could have been distraction. No one can know until a complete forensic investigation is done.

GoldenV said:
Its stated also that memory is very flexible in times of great shock.. yet the articles still hinge on the presumption that the witnesses saw what they claim, and that it happened that way.
As noted above, even if the witness reports are contradictory as to WHAT hit the Pentagon, all of them agree that SOMETHING did.

But you are right, maybe nothing from outside "hit" the Pentagon. Maybe it was all diversion and the Pentagon was bombed from within.

GoldenV said:
If you've heard of the "Pentacon", you will probably understand what i mean.. sure there mite have been a plane or missile, but it mite have not hit the pentagon at all, and just flew over.. but to the people on the ground, an explosion would shock them and make their judgement questionable.
Of course.

So, when you started this thread, why didn't you just say that? Why play all the games and pussy-foot around about "beliefs"?

GoldenV said:
Whats the big deal about just stating a few simple words in response to some questions?
What's the big deal about just stating what YOU think and asking, sincerely and honestly, "do you think this is possible?" Why play all the little mind games?

GoldenV said:
I don't want to spend hours of my time reading through several articles that just go on about Zionist involvement, and how evil various people are, and how bad the state of the situation is.. im not concerned with the "whys" and "whos" of the day, i just want to know some specific "hows".
See above. And also consider that, when exposing what did NOT happen, (i.e. the official "conspiracy theory"), it is important to suggest who may have had the ways and means to do anything at all in order to suggest where the next level of inquiry should go.

If you are looking for "hows," then you are just looking for another belief system to invest in; that's problematical at best, detrimental at worst.

No one can know the "hows" without a complete forensic investigation.

GoldenV said:
As far as i can tell, the articles just dance around the bush, but don't actually get down to the nitty gritty, which is what im concerned with.. if i could get some simple answers, i will be on my way.
Well, now you have some simple answers so you can be on your way.

GoldenV said:
But again, i really dont' want to spend hours of my time reading through hundreds of lines of text just to find the odd sentance which states what the author believes happened..
I'm not interested in beliefs, I want data. If you can provide data, do so. I'm not interested in forming beliefs because we do not have enough data. I'm not interested in promulgating beliefs because there's enough of that going on already, much of it bunk.

GoldenV said:
Surely you can understand where im coming from here?
Indeed. You want something to "believe in." It's a common failing of humanity - an inability to live with ambiguity, to leave the Universe "open" until more data is accumulated.
 
GoldenV said:
If people knew how the towers were demolished, then the truth could move one step further to coming out into the public eye, do you not agree?
No. Because even if someone knew "how the towers were demolished" and printed millions of pamphlets explicating that "truth," and mailed one to every household in the U.S., it would make no difference whatsoever because the mainstream media would harass that truth, debunk that truth, twist that truth, and generally make mincemeat out of it.

The very fact that you propose such a thing makes me want to ask you: What illusory world do you live in? I mean, are you for real? Can anybody be that naive and - dare I say it? - totally clueless about the real world?

GoldenV said:
If people knew how the towers were demolished, then the truth could move one step further to coming out into the public eye, do you not agree?
No.

Fact is, we cannot know how the towers were demolished. Prof. Steven Jones speculates that it was done with a proprietary form of thermate. But even that does not cover the whole phenomenon of the collapse of the towers. Consider the following:

http://st12.startlogic.com/~xenonpup/New_Spire/
“The reality of there being some kind of explosive events coinciding with the demise of each building, as reported by eye witnesses is well documented. However, any word of explosions essentially disappeared from mass-media reports of the attacks very quickly and to this day are not part of the official narrative. Mainstream scientific attempts to describe the collapses as unforeseen catastrophic engineering failures do not bother to take into account the widespread reports of explosions.”

“An odd remnant of the core of the north tower remained standing for about 15 seconds after the main collapse, and then seemed to abruptly disintegrate into a narrow column of dust where huge steel box columns had been... there are about ten seconds of footage from the same camera taken just as the collapse began. […]

After the upper portion of the tower has disappeared into the dust cloud the footage is intercut with a telephoto view from the north, and we do not return to this camera angle until the spire is about to collapse. […]

Immediately after this, the spire begins to fall straight down along its own axis, at least initially, without any change in appearance. But at about the point when its top is even with the tapering roof of the Woolworth Building a distinct change takes place. […]

All at once the outline of the previously solid looking steel columns begins to become less well defined. Very soon after this it is clear that the steel columns have turned into a fine powder, though remaining in a narrow vertical column somewhat wider than the original outline. The heavier portion of the dust settles straight down fairly quickly, leaving only an insubstantial wisp of lighter dust that drifts off to the left. It has been suggested that this was simply dust that had been somehow clinging to the columns, but it would be difficult to explain how any amount of dust could cling to the vertical sides of the columns after being scoured by the turbulent cloud from which it emerged. […]

Because this video was taken with a tripod-mounted camera located close to the collapse, the image is sharper than the other known footage of the event. There can be no doubt that the cluster of steel box columns comprising the spire, after surviving the violence of the collapse itself, did in fact disintegrate almost at the moment that it began to fall. I cannot begin to speculate on the kind of technology needed to make this happen, but can say with some certainty that even conventional explosives would not create such a disintegration, and nothing that could happen in a gravitational collapse would resemble this.

Something very unusual has happened to these particular steel beams, something that caused them to not merely topple or crumple in segments but to disintegrate in place. It is difficult to imagine any mechanism during a gravity driven collapse that could so alter the structure of steel that it might disintegrate under its own weight - no amount of shaking can create that kind of metal fatigue. […]

Could electrostatic forces generated by movement of particles account for some of this? Could the pyroclastic slurry of the collapse function like a thunderhead or Van de Graff generator, perhaps accounting for the visible glow as well as the displacement of the dust cloud? Could electrostatic repulsion somehow push the dust cloud off to the side? The final bimodal dust cloud seems very inconsistent with the extreme symmetry of the early stages of the collapse, so some asymmetric force must be at work. And could the force involved also have created the bright glow visible in so many images of the collapses? […]

Something inescapably strange is going on in these pictures, something no official explanation of the collapses has come close to accounting for. Beyond this I make no claims, and have no insider knowledge. Based on the photographic evidence there can be no question that explosives, and possibly other weapons systems based on “black technologies” were used in the WTC demolitions. Otherwise one can only suppose that the laws of physics underwent a profound but temporary change on September 11, 2001, as indeed the political and moral climate of our country underwent a dark and fateful change. And it is precisely this change that was clearly the intent behind the vast high-tech magic show that was 9/11. In politics as in physics, things do not happen for no reason. […]

Only a willingness to accept that there could be one more level of deception beyond what we have understood will allow us to find the real contours of this all-encompassing fake reality that is attempting to control us all.”
On this point, here is what is in our book on 911:

911: The Ultimate Truth said:
Anyone that has watched the footage of the WTC collapse cannot but remark on the surprising way in which the towers fell. It was as if the steel cores of the buildings, the ‘skeleton’ that holds them up, suddenly disappeared and the body of the buildings were left to collapse straight down with nothing to resist them but thin air. This brings us to the other ‘Achilles heel’ of the official government version of what happened on 9/11.

The footage of the collapse of the 1,300ft WTC towers has been played and replayed ad nauseum and is etched in all of our minds. If by some miracle you have not seen the footage, it is freely available on the various memorial DVDs of the 9/11 attacks. It is also available for download from our web site. I strongly suggest that you avail yourself of a copy and study the collapse of both towers. What you will see is that from the start point of the collapse until there is nothing but fresh air where the towers used to be, about 10 seconds elapse. An object in ‘free fall’ i.e. falling through thin air, will take a specific amount of time to reach the ground. The laws of gravity dictate that a 5 ton SUV, for example, and a 1lb rock, given that their relative densities are so much higher than the resistance presented by the surrounding air, will take approximately the same time to reach the ground when dropped from the same height. The time t required for an object to fall from a height h (in a vacuum) is given by the formula t = sqrt(2h/g), where g is the acceleration due to gravity. Thus an object falling from the top of one of the towers (taking h = 1306 feet and g = 32.174 ft/sec2) would take 9.01 seconds to hit the ground. Of course, this is in a vacuum, with no air present. Allowing for the resistance of the air we would have to add on a few seconds, yet according to the government’s 9/11 Commission report , the south tower collapsed in 10 seconds flat. But, as we all saw, the collapse of the south tower ‘pancaked’ through the 75 lower floors of the tower. Those undamaged floors below the impact zone would have offered resistance that is thousands of times greater than air. What time might we allow for the section above the impact point that collapsed to pass through each floor? 1 second each floor? If so, then the collapse should have taken 75 + 10 seconds, or over 1 minute and 20 seconds. For talks sake, let’s allow just a half second delay in the collapse provided by each ‘pancaked’ floor. In this case it should have taken 37.5 + 10 seconds. But let’s be really charitable and suggest that each floor below the impact point offered just 1/10th of a second resistance to the section that first began to ‘pancake’ on the lower floors. In this case the collapse should have taken 7.5 + 10 seconds for a total of 17.5 seconds. Yet this is not what happened. As the official 9/11 report states and as we all saw, the towers collapsed in just 10 seconds!

How can this be possible? The only explanation is that the floors below the impact point offered no resistance whatsoever allowing the building to fall in ‘free fall’ with only fresh air as resistance. The only way that this could have occurred is if the support offered by the steel core beams was in some way undermined. The most obvious way to undermine the steel core beams of the WTC tower would seem to be via the techniques employed by demolition experts to take down buildings and have them fall into their own ‘footprint’ - which is exactly what happened to the WTC towers. However, in the case of the WTC towers there are several factors that point to something other than standard technology being used to demolish towers.

For anyone that has seen a controlled demolition, the fact that explosives are used is very evident, with plumes of dust and debris being ejected and a series of resounding ‘booms’ of explosive charges detonating just before the building falls. In the case of the WTC towers however, no explosions of such magnitude or ‘booms’ were visible or audible before the onset of the collapse, although what appear to be small explosions were observed below the collapse point.

If we hold to the official version, these ‘squibs’ have no obvious explanation. They do, however, fit very well with what we would expect to see in a planned demolition. Added to this are the many reports from fire-fighters and civilians who reporting hearing and witnessing explosions going off inside the building before the towers collapsed. These reports were finally released by the City of New York i.e. the U.S. government, after a prolonged campaign by families to have them released:

“We thought there was like an internal detonation, explosives, because it went in succession, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then the tower came down…It actually gave at a lower floor, not the floor where the plane hit.” Firefighter Edward Cachia.
“There was just an explosion in the south tower. It seemed like on television when they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions.” - Firefighter Richard Banaciski.
“I saw a flash, flash, flash at the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building?” - Assistant Fire Commissioner Stephen Gregory
“It was like a professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear 'Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop'." - Paramedic Daniel Rivera.
Among the reports of explosions throughout the building there were many reports of explosions in the basement areas of the towers: For example, janitor William Rodriguez reported that he and others felt an explosion below the first sub-level office at 9:00 am, after which co-worker Felipe David, who had been in front of a nearby freight elevator, came into the office with severe burns on his face and arms yelling: "explosion! explosion! explosion!" Rodriguez’s account was corroborated by José Sanchez, who was in the workshop on the fourth sub-level. Sanchez said that he and a co-worker heard a big blast that “sounded like a bomb,” after which “a huge ball of fire went through the freight elevator.

Engineer Mike Pecoraro, who was working in the sixth sub-basement of the north tower, said that after an explosion he and a co-worker went up to the C level, where there was a small machine shop. “There was nothing there but rubble,” said Pecoraro. “We're talking about a 50 ton hydraulic press - gone!” They then went to the parking garage, but found that it was also gone. Then on the B level, they found that a steel-and-concrete fire door, which weighed about 300 pounds, was wrinkled up "like a piece of aluminum foil." Having seen similar things after the terrorist attack in 1993, Pecoraro was convinced that a bomb had gone off.

What are we to make of these reports, from dozens of witnesses, that explosions were going off throughout the WTC towers? Particularly, how do we explain the reports of massive explosions in the basement areas of both towers? In the immediate aftermath of the collapses of the towers, a company was employed by the City of New York to begin the clean up. In an act that can only be described as criminal negligence at the scene of a crime, this company immediately began to collect the steel beams, most of which has been inexplicably reduced to 30ft sections, and ship them off to Asia to be melted down. What was the name of this company? Why, Controlled Demolition Incorporated (CDI) of course! When asked about the collapse of the towers, Mark Loizeaux, the head of CDI, which calls itself “the innovator and global leader in the controlled demolition and implosion of structures,” stated:

“If I were to bring the towers down, I would put explosives in the basement to get the weight of the building to help collapse the structure.”
Is this getting strange enough for you yet? Yet perhaps most interestingly of all is the fact that, many weeks after the collapse, still molten metal was discovered by removal teams in what used to be the basement levels of the WTC towers. This same Mark Loizeaux of CDI, affirmed that “hot spots of molten steel were found at the bottoms of the elevator shafts of the main towers, down seven basement levels.” Adding to the mystery is the video footage of what appears to be molten metal falling out of the impact area of the south tower before the tower collapsed .

As reported in the November 29th 2001 edition of The New York Times, while some engineers said that a combination of an uncontrolled fire and the structural damage might have been able to bring the buildings down, Dr. Jonathan Barnett, professor of fire protection engineering at the Worcester Polytechnic Institute said that uncontrolled fire and the structural damage would not explain steel members in the debris pile that appear to have been partly evaporated in extraordinarily high temperatures. Think about that for a while. Authorities found evidence that some of the massive steel core beams had partly evaporated! Evaporating Steel beams? The temperature required to evaporate steel is somewhere in the region of 2,860 degrees centigrade, much higher than the 500-800 degrees centigrade proposed for the WTC fires.

It is an established fact (by the 9/11 Commission itself) that the jet fuel in the planes and the office fixtures that provided further fuel for the fires burned intensely for just 10-15 minutes but nevertheless could not have reached the 1,500 degrees centigrade required at which the core steel beams of the towers would have melted.

Added to this we have the surpassingly strange fact that a large percentage of the material of the towers (plastics, concrete, steel etc.) was apparently turned literally to dust as the towers fell. If we take a piece of concrete and drop it from several hundred feet onto the ground, would we expect it to turn to dust?! How can we explain this? How can the Bush government explain this? Are they going to? Are they going to explain how the laws of physics were somehow suspended on September 11th 2001, only in New York and only in the area of the WTC complex? If we are to believe the official claim that the towers fell as a result of a ‘pancake’ effect, not only would be expect most of the material to remain in sizeable chunks, but we would also expect to see most of the 47 large core steel beams still standing as the floors pancaked around them. At the very least we would expect to see chunks of steel beams that were hundreds of feet in height/length. Yet, that is not what we saw.

What we saw was the almost complete disintegration of the WTC towers into either dust or relatively small chunks of steel and masonry ready to be immediately hauled or swept away. Needless to say, none of these facts fit with the official story that the planes or the resulting fires caused the towers to collapse. So what did cause the collapse of the WTC towers?

Professor of Physics Steven E. Jones at Brigham Young University in Provo, Utah posits that the most likely explanation is that some form of thermite reaction was employed. Thermite reactions are caused by the mixture of aluminium metal and the oxide (rust) of another metal, usually iron, and an external ignition source and are used in industry to cut and melt steel. They are also used in thermite grenades and bombs that have been used in combat as incendiary devices, able to burn through heavy armor or other fireproof barriers. The result of a thermite reaction is molten iron, a temperature of 2,500 degrees centigrade and, when employed on metals such as steels, the ‘liquification’ of the steel.

However, given the apparently instantaneous undermining of these massive steel columns, we may not be dealing with ordinary, publicly available thermite compounds.

In his analysis, Professor Jones makes a brief reference to “nanoaluminum” and “superthermites”. In January 2005 the magazine Technology Review, a publication of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) ran a story entitled Military Reloads with Nanotech. In the article, the U.S. military’s latest research and development of ‘nanotech’ weapons was discussed:

Smaller. Cheaper. Nastier. Those are the guiding principles behind the military's latest bombs. The secret ingredient: nanotechnology that makes for a bigger boom.

Nanotechnology is grabbing headlines for its potential in advancing the life sciences and computing research, but the Department of Defense (DoD) found another use: a new class of weaponry that uses energy-packed nanometals to create powerful, compact bombs.

With funding from the U.S. government, Sandia National Laboratories, the Los Alamos National Laboratory, and the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory are researching how to manipulate the flow of energy within and between molecules, a field known as nanoenergentics, which enables building more lethal weapons such as "cave-buster bombs" that have several times the detonation force of conventional bombs such as the "daisy cutter" or MOAB (mother of all bombs).

Researchers can greatly increase the power of weapons by adding materials known as superthermites that combine nanometals such as nanoaluminum with metal oxides such as iron oxide, according to Steven Son, a project leader in the Explosives Science and Technology group at Los Alamos.

"The advantage (of using nanometals) is in how fast you can get their energy out," Son says.

Son says that the chemical reactions of superthermites are faster and therefore release greater amounts of energy more rapidly.

"Superthermites can increase the (chemical) reaction time by a thousand times," Son says, resulting in a very rapid reactive wave.

Son, who has been working on nanoenergetics for more than three years, says that scientists can engineer nanoaluminum powders with different particle sizes to vary the energy release rates.

The U.S. Army Environmental Center began a program in 1997 to develop alternatives to the toxic lead that is used in the hundreds of millions of rounds that are annually fired during conflicts and at its training ranges. Carpenter says that although bullets using nanoaluminum are ready to be field tested, the government has been slow implement the technology.

However, researchers aren't permitted to discuss what practical military applications may come from this research.
Professor Jones concludes:

[…] substantial evidence supporting the current conjecture that some variation of thermite (e.g., solid aluminum powder plus Fe2O3, with possible addition of sulfur) was used on the steel columns of the WTC Tower to weaken the huge steel supports, not long before explosives finished the demolition job. Roughly 3,000 pounds of RDX-grade linear-shaped charges (which could have been pre-positioned by just a few men) would then suffice in each Tower and WTC 7 to cut the supports at key points so that gravity would bring the buildings straight down. The estimate is based on the amount of explosives used in controlled demolitions in the past and the size of the buildings. Radio-initiated firing of the charges is implicated here. Using computer-controlled radio signals, it would be an easy matter to begin the explosive demolition near the point of entry of the planes in the Towers. [...]
It is certainly very plausible then to suggest that “superthermite”, with its ability to almost instantly generate temperatures of 2500 degrees centigrade and thereby instantly liquefy steel (and possibly many other materials, although we are not allowed to know) could well have been used to effect the demolition of the WTC towers. Such a suggestion is certainly more plausible than the entirely official version of events. However, the thermite theory does not explain how the thousands of tons of concrete in the towers were literally pulverized. Joe Casaliggi a firefighter with Engine 7 commented:

"You have two 110-story office buildings: you don't find a chair, you don't find a telephone, a computer... the biggest piece of a telephone I found was half a keypad, and it was this big (holds up thumb and forefinger). The buildings collapsed to dust."
Dr. Charles Hirsch, the chief medical examiner dealing with 9/11, informed relatives of 9/11 victims not to expect remains of their loved ones to be found since most bodies had been “vaporized” (his own word) . This was the finding of the chief medical examiner at the WTC site. How can anyone explain that people, human beings, caught in a building collapse were completely “vaporized”, turned to dust, just like the concrete and fixtures of the WTC towers?

Most investigators point to evidence of “explosives” and “squibs” in video footage of the collapse of the two towers, yet to effect the complete destruction of so much concrete and office material, a massive quantity of explosives would surely have been required, and such a quantity is simply not evident in the available footage. As has been suggested by Professor Jones, an advanced and publicly unknown form of “superthermite” was probably used to cut the steel core beams of the WTC towers, which leaves open the possibility that other similarly advanced and publicly unknown technology was used to disintegrate the concrete that constituted the body of the towers. It this case, it would not be responsible or wise for me to theorize about what specific device or technique was used to turn the towers to dust, however, I will say that ‘sound’ and ‘light’ weapons have been developed in the past 20 years by the U.S. and Israeli military that are capable of ‘invisibly’ destroying hardened targets. To that I will add that part of the prepping of the WTC towers could have included the planting of ‘conductors’ to effect the propagation of such an induced wave throughout the buildings and thereby causing the vaporization of concrete and human bodies alike.
 
First off, thank you very much for writing what you did, i appreciate your long response :)

JGeropoulas said:
Jokes aside, that line of logic was actually one of the most convincing to me--that is--until 9/11. That lead to this site, which soon opened my eyes to see the vastness of those ambitious, disinforming forces at work in our world.
But how do you know that this site is not part of the disinformation operation, intentional or otherwise? Regarding channelled information, i tend to take it all with a major dose of salt. The only person you can really trust at the end of the day, is yourself. I've had too much occur in my life to put aside the notion that all truth is not "out there", but rather, is within, possibly encoded right into your own DNA (you should read "the cosmic serpant", fantastic book).

You said yourself, "In that discussion, the C's said that certain channeled sources are actually STS, often providing much accurate information when it serves their purposes." How can you be sure that the information your absorbing from the C's is not misleading itself? Im not trying to make you angry here, but if that statement does stir up some emotion within you, i suggest you really consider what i just wrote above.

JGeropoulas said:
I still have enormous fascination and "respect" for much that's in The Urantia Book, but have come to conclude that though the topics are fascinating, overall, the book's purpose might be to distract us from the most urgent issues at hand. With many religions, there is little truth and lots of lies. With The Urantia Book, I think there's lots of truth and lots of omissions.
What would the most urgent issues be though? This comes back to a post earlier when i asked what defines "wasted time". To see something as being more important than something else is to be still caught in duality, to be caught in the "us and them" state of mind, which is what i am trying to get away from. I see all as equal. "All babies smile once or twice". I know before i even start reading the book that i will have to just sit back and take it all with a grain of salt. At the end of the day, i can be honest with myself. I know where my ego is.. that statement mite seem like a bit of a contradiction, but i can only state that i honestly do know myself better than my ego.


JGeropoulas said:
This contradicts the C's viewpoint that "we" the human race, are Lucifer who "fell."
I don't want to get deep here, but i strongly disagree with that statement, simply because its a defeatist attitude to have. Sure, some truths are depressing in a sense, but if you really think we are all "not worthy", then why continue to live at all, given that we are "lucifer", and perpetuating the darkness. In that case, surely the most noble thing you could do is take your own life to spare others from the suffering you would surely inflict in your fallen state.. either than, or we are not fallen.. but just "lost" in a game bigger than we could possibly imagine?
 
Lynne said:
It just seems to be VERY IMPORTANT for you to know what they are thinking on this subject. I don't know why, but it has little warning bells ringing all over the place for me. But, like I said, I do tend to be a suspicious person. ;)

And if you like to read, it is all there in 9/11 the Ultimate Truth. If you want so very much to know what SotT and all think, that's where you will find all the answers. And by the way your are sounding, you are so very interested in this subject that I can't see how the price of the book would stop you from buying it to quench your curiosity.

So why the pressing desire for the members/SotT team to tell you their "true opinions"? Just curious.
Sorry to throw this back at you, but so far all i have been told is "read the book", and in the case of "Joe" i think it was, just shown the link of where to buy it. If anything, i have the right to be suspicious, because im getting the distinct impression that all i am being sold here is a book, of which i have no way of knowing whether it will contain the answers im looking for. And looking at the chapters in the contents page someone posted, it doesn't look like it will contain what im looking for..

Im asking for peoples opinions, because no matter what someone says, the truth can be discerned from their statements. Im not here to press and probe people, i really just want to know what you guys think happened in regards to the events i asked about. You mite not understand why i want to know the "hows" of 9/11, but its important to me.. this is how i work when truth seeking. The more information i can get my hands on, the better, and you people seem like a reasonably smart bunch, and your opinions would therefore be of great value to my quest!

And besides, i have reason to believe the "hows" of 9/11 are far more important than the "whos". Even if you can point the finger at the culprits, thats not going to achieve anything. We all know who instigated the phony war in Iraq for example.. but does anyone in the UK or USA care? Nope.. They know who's responsible, but just go on with their daily business.

If they could be shown a coherent "how" of 9/11, then maybe they would be more persuaded to take action. But "thermite", "wtc7", "zionists".. thats not going to get the ball rolling. Its been what, 6 years now.. and we've come as far as i knew we would, but no further... because no one has presented an alternative plot to the days events.
 
Laura said:
I'm not interested in beliefs, I want data. If you can provide data, do so. I'm not interested in forming beliefs because we do not have enough data. I'm not interested in promulgating beliefs because there's enough of that going on already, much of it bunk.

Indeed. You want something to "believe in." It's a common failing of humanity - an inability to live with ambiguity, to leave the Universe "open" until more data is accumulated.
You say that, but yet you willingly point the finger at the "Zionists"? Does that not seem like a bit of a contradiction? It certainly seems like it too me. One would be forgiven for asking why you seem so intent on pointing the finger at them, but im not here to ask that, because i recognise that they were probably involved in some way.

I don't want something to believe in. I know 9/11 was an inside job, that in itself is a belief. I can prove it too some extent, but its come to the point where i need to know more than just "controlled demolition" and "WTC7". This is why people like Alex Jones are losing supporters, because people are waking up to the fact that he is actually misdirecting people away from other evidence, like the fact that the towers literally crumbled into powder, or that there were high levels of tritium etc..

Now is the time for a better, more coherent, explanation of what really happened on 9/11 to come out. But simply pointing the finger at the Zionists without explaining "how", or even "what" they did, seems like a very foolhardy thing to do.. how you can you claim they are guilty without showing how they did what the supposedly did, whatever that may have been?

Laura said:
I mean, are you for real? Can anybody be that naive and - dare I say it? - totally clueless about the real world?
And you would be more in touch with what really happened on 9/11? Doesn't seem like it too me if you can't even give me an explanation as to what happened on the various events, but yet continue to accuse people of doing "something"..

And besides, what is the "real world" anyway.. define! lol ;)
 
GV, again, here we try our best to avoid both "beliefs" and "opinions." Think about that and what that might mean. Why do you keep asking about beliefs and opinions?

Take a look at this topic: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=3925

It is pretty long but well worth reading to understand why we avoid opinions.
 
Why is this been made more complicated than it needs to be? If no one wants to answer my questions, you can just say so! This is really starting to make me susipicious, that no one one will actually give me a straight answer/s, but instead just directing me to drawn out writings and book sales pages, of which do not contain any answers to the questions i posed.. *sighs* :(

Also, beliefs and opinions.. i really don't get what your trying to say here, considering that the site "cassiopaea" is based upon the "cassiopaean transcripts", which in itself is nothing more than opinions and beliefs.. unless you want to claim its all real and true? (A straight answer here please!)

Please.. if no one wants to give me some answers, just say so, and i will leave, because staying around would fit that definition of "wasting time" i asked about earlier.. i don't want to waste hours of my life sitting around reading transcripts and writings that amount to nothing more than opinion and belief, the very thing you claim this site tries to avoid; Yes, they are nothing more than opinion and belief, and if you can't see that anymore, i suggest you take a step back for a second and really think about whats going on here.

Again, please, some straight answers. I don't want to buy material that is nothing more than opinion and belief, nor do i want to become a member of your cult, which is also nothing more than opinion and belief. I just want to know what the stance is of this place on the aspects of 9/11 i asked about, thats all! If you don't want to tell me, again, just say so, and i will leave, and i can mark this site down as appropriate on my list of sites i've covered thus far. Because again, all im trying to do is get a better bigger picture of what everyone believes so i can compare them all, and hopefully get further on my own quest for the truth of that day.

I know you mite not understand where im coming from, but this is how i work.. i know 9/11 was not the work of Osama, but i need to take it further than an "inside job". I need more details, otherwise i may be led astray, or i may have been already and not know it, which is why your stance on 9/11 is needed.. it mite be so far away from what i have that i may need too in that case, sit down and go over it again.

Am i making any sense to anyone? :(
 
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