Possible Courses of Action

Ryan said:
I wonder perhaps if many readers/lurkers of this forum speculate that the QFG has some "secret escape plan" or strategy to get all its members out of the USA before things really go to pot? This really isn't the case.
Yeah, you've got a point there, besides, things have already gone pretty much "potty" anyway and unfortunately only look like getting worse. I think the only thing a person can do is look reality in the face instead of believing in fairy tails.

Of course, depending on what an individual is actually doing as to their interactions with the PTB; it pays to be very circumspect when it comes to those types of things.
 
dant said:
Hmm... I do not sense from the Cs that we have to DO anything to ensure physical survival - ie nothing I have
read so far says that we have to be survivalist, hoard food, build underground bunkers, amass guns, knives, bombs,
etc. all doing so in total nonsensical fear. Cs hammer the point: "Knowledge Protects, Ignorance Endangers" and we
must DO what is within ourselves and to pay attention to what WE SEE?

Ah, just get out the lawn chairs, and watch the "fireworks" and enjoy it, for it is knowledge of objective truths that will
empower and free us?
Good input Dant - and I agree but I interpret the C's answers here (at least partly) as a suggestion not to obsess - not to do nothing. If we interpret these answers to mean an assurance that everything will be OK somehow, or that transition to 5th relieves one of responsible action, this may tread close the ground of "wishful thinking". If there is a reasonable probability that even partial/temporary infrastructure collapse will be made to happen for purposes such as draconian control measures or maybe a little population reduction, you could be doing the PTB quite the favor by refusing to consider the implications. What I have pointed out as responsible planning is not obsessive, and this planning for many, may entail nothing more than a concerted review and assessment of one's options. By having a continuous awareness of one's options, they can adapt with what you see as time goes on and provide the immediate fuel for actions that are matched to the situations/perceptions that occur. In this sense, you are not planning what you are going to do (how can you?) - but you are bringing your options into awareness so that your subsequent actions are brought more directly in contact with informed perception.

A: If things on your planet do indeed "heat up," as is certainly one possible future scenario from your viewpoint, it might not be a bad idea to
avoid standing directly on the "burners."

So I think the above answer from the C's still describes it best - don't obsess on the possible coming events but do realize as deeply as possible the situation we are in and the likely consequences - thought paid to this naturally leads to indentification of options which may minimize the chance of finding oneself "standing directly on the 'burners'".
 
LQB said:
sleepyvinny said:
So, to that end, getting 'wised up' as rapidly and thoroughly as possible about ourselves and the external world we inhabit, seems to be the first order of business. Anything else, such as where to move to (if moving at all) or exact practical methods for survival, all this seems secondary to filling this gaping void of ignorance that we seem to have regarding the human condition in general terms, that leads us round to these difficulties in the first place.
Yes, most certainly, but doing that work is compatible within the context of whatever you are doing because it is about awareness - it need not be an either-or. One does not exclude the other.
I don't think that that is what SV was implying. The point that he was trying to make, as far as I can tell, was that in the context of one's priorities, finding a different place to live should be lower on the totem pole than just plain working on yourself. Of course you can do them both at the same time, but remember that it is not where you are that matters, but WHO you are. Focusing on the 'where' sounds to me like one is not focused on what is truly important. OSIT
 
Yes, I agree - finding another place to live is rather like focusing on where your cabin is on the Titanic. Well, that's slightly hyperbolic, and there are exceptions - but the battle is 'through us' - and within us. It seems to me that nothing takes precedent over 'knowing thyself' - nothing. Wherever you go, there you are - and if you are nothing but a bundle of programs, then no matter where you live, you will most likely be a 'dream of the past'. It cannot be stressed enough that fusing a magnetic center IS the point - not finding a place where you think you might be safe, from a 3D perspective.

The kicker is that fusing a magnetic center, a singular 'I', is infinitely more difficult that boring out an underground kingdom in granite, by yourself, complete with every creature comfort. The battle is through us - it is within us.

How difficult the Work is cannot be overstated - that is where the 'battle' is - most especially in a symbolic and non-linear Universe. I'm not saying that if you're living in certain hot spots, and an opportunity to relocate presents itself, that you shouldn't leave - what I am saying is that where we are is most likely the least of our worries. This forum is based on the work of G.I. Gurdjieff and an understanding of his work will help with an understanding of 'where I'm coming from' with this.
 
beau said:
I don't think that that is what SV was implying. The point that he was trying to make, as far as I can tell, was that in the context of one's priorities, finding a different place to live should be lower on the totem pole than just plain working on yourself. Of course you can do them both at the same time, but remember that it is not where you are that matters, but WHO you are.
yep, that's what I meant.

anart said:
Yes, I agree - finding another place to live is rather like focusing on where your cabin is on the Titanic. Well, that's slightly hyperbolic
actually I think that's a great way to put it! As I learn more about myself, I frequently discover that I wasn't even asking the right questions.

And anyway: "the worse the conditions of life the more productive the work, always provided you remember the work." - Gurdjieff
 
LQB said:
Using the "preparedness" example above, wouldn't you equate these efforts with an attempt to avoid standing directly on the "burners"?
I've long since stopped trying to equate my hypotheses with anything the C's say. "Avoiding standing on the burners" could mean many things. For instance:

1) Moving away from the aggressive drunk next door.
2) Quitting your job as personal assistant to the CEO of a subprime mortgage company.
3) Spending less time with your right-wing brother who works for the Dept of Homeland Security.
4) Fitting a smoke alarm to your house.
5) Repairing the front step which you have a tendency to trip over.

etc etc.

The way I see it, Laura and the people at the sessions were the ones asking the questions. The C's (if they exist), were the ones answering them. That means there was a unique context for each question. Although it may seem obvious to me what they are talking about in general terms, that might be an assumption I'm making. It could be that they are using words that convey a specific concept familiar to both parties, but not to me (or familiar to me in a different way). Either way, my interpretation loses something in translation. Or maybe it doesn't. Point is, I can't KNOW that it doesn't. That's why I don't quote the C's much, and don't consider that C's excerpts lend any credibility to a particular idea or theory that I have, and by logical extrapolation, any theory that anyone else has*.

* Except Laura and Ark, who A) have established their credibility with me via their research, actions, and attitude towards the world, and B) are actual participants in the channelling/communication process. This makes their speculations slightly more credible to me.

LQB said:
This is not fear-based, it is reality-based.
Then you have nothing to fear. ;)
 
sleepyvinny said:
So, to that end, getting 'wised up' as rapidly and thoroughly as possible about ourselves and the external world we inhabit, seems to be the first order of business. Anything else, such as where to move to (if moving at all) or exact practical methods for survival, all this seems secondary to filling this gaping void of ignorance that we seem to have regarding the human condition in general terms, that leads us round to these difficulties in the first place.

Once some knowledge and awareness is gained about oneself, and one's world, then practical details fall into place more naturally, and these are always different depending on the circumstances, having to be continuously adaptable to new situations. And without such a level of knowledge and awareness, any possible general purpose 'pre-fabricated' solution is destined to fail anyway.
It boggles the mind trying to determine all the possibilities when really, nothing turns out the way we'd expect half the time anyhow. Anticipation just narrows the options to predetermined ones which may not even be a reality anyway; so you could be trying to create your own reality all the while the real world passes you by, or worse.
 
Ryan said:
LQB said:
Using the "preparedness" example above, wouldn't you equate these efforts with an attempt to avoid standing directly on the "burners"?
I've long since stopped trying to equate my hypotheses with anything the C's say. "Avoiding standing on the burners" could mean many things. For instance:

1) Moving away from the aggressive drunk next door.
2) Quitting your job as personal assistant to the CEO of a subprime mortgage company.
3) Spending less time with your right-wing brother who works for the Dept of Homeland Security.
4) Fitting a smoke alarm to your house.
5) Repairing the front step which you have a tendency to trip over.

etc etc.

The way I see it, Laura and the people at the sessions were the ones asking the questions. The C's (if they exist), were the ones answering them. That means there was a unique context for each question. Although it may seem obvious to me what they are talking about in general terms, that might be an assumption I'm making. It could be that they are using words that convey a specific concept familiar to both parties, but not to me (or familiar to me in a different way). Either way, my interpretation loses something in translation. Or maybe it doesn't. Point is, I can't KNOW that it doesn't. That's why I don't quote the C's much, and don't consider that C's excerpts lend any credibility to a particular idea or theory that I have, and by logical extrapolation, any theory that anyone else has*.

* Except Laura and Ark, who A) have established their credibility with me via their research, actions, and attitude towards the world, and B) are actual participants in the channelling/communication process. This makes their speculations slightly more credible to me.
Do you really think the context of this statement:

A: If things on your planet do indeed "heat up," as is certainly one possible future scenario from your viewpoint, it might not be a bad idea to
avoid standing directly on the "burners."

includes your examples 1) to 5)? I don't care who makes the statement - do responses 1) to 5) fit? Do these relate to the first part of the sentence: "If things on your planet do indeed "heat up" ...

If we take the context to mean simply (and its not simple) gain a greater awareness/understanding of yourself/environment/condition, the 1) to 5) can be replaced by an infinity. And I'll accept that.
 
LQB said:
Do you really think the context of this statement:

A: If things on your planet do indeed "heat up," as is certainly one possible future scenario from your viewpoint, it might not be a bad idea to
avoid standing directly on the "burners."

includes your examples 1) to 5)? I don't care who makes the statement - do responses 1) to 5) fit? Do these relate to the first part of the sentence: "If things on your planet do indeed "heat up" ...
Yes. I'll explain further:

"If things on your planet do indeed 'heat up'" could refer, for instance, to global warming. Heat can make people tetchy and exacerbate fires. Thus (1) and (4).

It could also refer to the economy going into "meltdown", resulting in a great depression scenario, but with no complete "fascist takeover". Thus 2) and 1)

It could also refer to another false-flag bombing, resulting in a fascist takeover, thus 3).

It could also refer to a build up or fluctuations of magnetic or other "subtle" energies, causing no overt disaster, but making people go "haywire" emotionally. Thus 1) 3) 5)

It could refer to a mass increase in the incidence of spontaneous human combustion, thus 1) (and 4) :D )

LQB said:
If we take the context to mean simply (and its not simple) gain a greater awareness/understanding of yourself/environment/condition, the 1) to 5) can be replaced by an infinity. And I'll accept that.
And that too.

Point is (as Darren said above), assumptions and anticipation just narrow down the field of possibilities and encourage a state of wishful thinking that everything is all "sussed out". One of the reasons I included 5) was because everything might be going relatively well thanks to "survival prep", regardless of the chaos around you, and then one day you fall down the stairs and break your neck because you didn't have the presence of mind to repair the step no matter how many times you tripped on it and thought, "Gee, I better fix that" - or you got emotionally het-up and rushed down the stairs instead of walking normally.

Just exploring a few possibilities. Personally, I agree completely with what Anne said: Nothing takes precedence over "Knowing Thyself". I find this to be such a momentous challenge that I have less and less time for "exterior" considerations like survivalism. Although I freely acknowledge that I might have to learn about it in a hurry one day! But this is where I have faith in the principle of Networking... ;)
 
Ryan said:
Point is (as Darren said above), assumptions and anticipation just narrow down the field of possibilities and encourage a state of wishful thinking that everything is all "sussed out". One of the reasons I included 5) was because everything might be going relatively well thanks to "survival prep", regardless of the chaos around you, and then one day you fall down the stairs and break your neck because you didn't have the presence of mind to repair the step no matter how many times you tripped on it and thought, "Gee, I better fix that" - or you got emotionally het-up and rushed down the stairs instead of walking normally.

Just exploring a few possibilities. Personally, I agree completely with what Anne said: Nothing takes precedence over "Knowing Thyself". I find this to be such a momentous challenge that I have less and less time for "exterior" considerations like survivalism. Although I freely acknowledge that I might have to learn about it in a hurry one day! But this is where I have faith in the principle of Networking... ;)
Your concerns 1) to 5) have been around for a long time in one form or another. The quote "If things on your planet do indeed "heat up," implies an acceleration of events/importance, and may imply something that transcends your 1) to 5). In which case it would be wise to consider the implications. My point has been that investment of time along these lines is very little - but the payoff can be great - again, its a matter of awareness.

1) Moving away from the aggressive drunk next door.
2) Quitting your job as personal assistant to the CEO of a subprime mortgage company.
3) Spending less time with your right-wing brother who works for the Dept of Homeland Security.
4) Fitting a smoke alarm to your house.
5) Repairing the front step which you have a tendency to trip over.

Again, these do not seem in context logically to

A: If things on your planet do indeed "heat up," as is certainly one possible future scenario from your viewpoint, it might not be a bad idea to
avoid standing directly on the "burners."

But we can just agree to disagree on this as I think we have demonstrated. (And on networking - we most definitely agree!)

Larry
 
Hi Larry,

I think you might be missing Ryan's point that very often what the C's say is not 'literally' what they mean - they often speak in clues, suggestion and subtle implications in order to not violate Free Will. Due to this fact, it is plausible that any of Ryan's examples could be spot on, as could another hundred examples of every day life 'burners'.

It is even often the case that the C's will use a word in a sentence that does nothing other than trigger a thought cascade in Laura's mind that leads to what they really mean. For this reason, basing one's actions on one's subjective interpretation of 'what the C's mean' is quite often folly at best, and delusion at worst.

"Simple and karmic understandings." "Sit back and enjoy the show." "You will do what you will do." "It is not where you are, but what you See." - - fwiw
 
Hello Folks,

This being my first day as a member on this site, I thought it wise to search the topics with the words "human" and "survival" and this thread was the first one I saw. Plus its pretty old, so I was thinking that there is probably another, more recent version, or at least, some threads where the subjects included in the original post [and by extension, the replies] have dabbled and been considered.

Yes, a spiritual journey is necessary before any wise judgement can be made - of course, there are those who have no need to sit and wonder about themselves for very long.
Unfortunately, it appears to me as if the world has just been gripped under neo-fascism. To put my post in the context of current world news, Japan is wrestling with the effects of large earthquakes, a tsunami, and four nuclear reactors approaching meltdown, there are some large solar flares, the 'world government' [I'm going to use that because its just much easier than saying "the main officials from each powerful nation and supra-national agency", each time], have added at least a trillion USD to keep the monetary rat-race running, and "new" alternative sources of energy are being investigated by [major multi-national] corporate groups as potential "new" ways of providing our expanding population with further consumer products and services. The most expensive house, home to 5 people, is worth about 1.8 billion [1,800 million] USD and is in India, next to some slums.
Yes, fascism has rules our world since the American Federal reserve was bought, back before Nazi Germany. But more recently, there has been [and will continue to be] restructuring to corporate banks [very complicated entities, some sworn to secrecy] such as Goldman Sachs, but also including many others from Europe and Asia. The most unfortunate point I wish to make is that it would appear that we have lost our moment. Now, as opposed to two to three years ago, the banks are already restructured and are continuing to reinvest in core economic sectors [such as mining groups or energy and telecommunications services]. In Britain, the "Con-Dem" coalition [I am not very happy with them] have designed a complete new welfare system, as well as suggested a new form of voting system, meant to be "fairer" than the last. Personally, I have read some VERY interesting sociological works which inform me about our present situation as humans [who understand humans], and I am maybe relatively new to planetary consciousness [but its not like I didnt know how to act in the moment ;) ].
What i think is this. Polarisation of human social values is a rising trend, especially in America and their satelite states [south America, for example]. The people who can afford [monetarily] to prepare themselves are doing so, while those who are not wealthy but still aware are preparing themselves with knowledge and skills. There is still some hope, as there have been growing movements in the recent years to build communities, much like as have been mentioned in the previous replies to the original thread post. The knowledge about living off grid, living sustainably and in harmony with the natural cycles is being developed and shared via a wide range of means, however, its generally those who can afford to do so who benefit from this type of cultural exploration. The problems are: those who cannot afford to do so are often the most aware, yet they dont have the knowledge, skills, capital and contacts. The powers that be will attempt to use this period of our world history to impose things such as identification cards, welfare to work schemes and “incentives” to volunteer [the latter is but a new way of labour flexibilisation/ exploitation]. In my personal view, the probable path is to
Restore and maintain private fear and reluctance to speak out.
Continue the propaganda that “since our nation is better off than others, we should accept the infringements of our human rights” – of course as propaganda this is not exactly obvious. These are formed in cycles, which as far as I perceive are a central part of the “toolkit” mentioned in the original post – the most worrying factor is that these cycles are being used, not always maliciously, but mostly with imperfection, which means that unintended consequences arise.
Continue to present the ideology of the “world government” or “world police” or “supranational new world order” as being the only alternative to the past, and as being the best option of you, yourself, and your family [neo-conservative].
United we stand, divided we fall, but keep your friends close and your enemies closer. We need to act now –
I personally have undertaken Work, and its difficult, its a book! But a book for the children… you might imagine whats in it.
Its going to include as many sociological essays as I can find or write on community, history, leadership, semiotics, values, morality, spirituality, skills, technology, and sustainability… written for people who can only just read. Seems very right wing sometimes, but I will keep the free Will open!
But I cannot sit anymore, I must act; it is time, you know, I would love to write to all you lucky people, but we must spread our social power to help other people for absolutely no obvious or personal return.
P.S. This forum is more than the face-value human to human communication. I understood that after about 30 minutes maybe… Good Work.
 
Hi CoOper8,

We suggest that new members introduce themselves in the newbies section. It doesn't have to be anything personal, just how you found the forum, what your interests are, etc. :)

Take a look at what others have posted if you are not sure what to write.
 
Hi, CoOper8.

Glad you've found your way here and looking forward to your intro in the newbie thread. It is a vast forum so glad to see you're familiarizing yourself with the search function. It is your friend. :) Though there are lots of threads that I'm sure will interest you, you may want to check out these two more recent threads, Creating a New World and Preparedness on 'survival.' As we say around here, "Knowledge Protects" though we emphasize spiritual growth and being more so than strictly physical preparation. So make yourself at home and be sure to read the forum rules etc. to get better acquainted with our focus here. Looking forward to learning with you.
 
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