ZONE OUT

I have seen contradictory definitions for zoning out. For example, one definition I've seen equates it with hyperfocus, where all distractions are ignored and one can focus on a single thought or process. (_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoning_out)

However, my understanding is different. I would say zoning out is a period of time when all thoughts and internal dialogue stop (or appear to stop). (See _http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/zone_out for this version of the definition).

Perhaps those two definitions could work together if one were focussing on not focussing and the full attention and awareness is successfully directed to the task.

While many might actually intend to stop the internal dialogue and thoughts through meditation, many have experienced zoning out as a phenomenon during the Prayer of the Soul and EE breathing that comes on without conscious intent. In my experience, it comes without warning and I either fall asleep some time afterward or eventually just snap out of it. Either way, I have no way of knowing how long I zoned out, as the sense of time is also missing during the experience, at least in my experience.

Gonzo
 
Thanks Gonzo for your explication. Now I understand better. :)


If anyone can help me a bit more ... I've read in FOTCM section that there are four types of zone out practicing EE.

Is there a thread that explains these four types?



Gracias Gonzo por tu explicación. Ahora lo entiendo mejor. :)


Si alguien puede ayudarme un poco más… He leído en la sección FOTCM que hay cuatro tipos de “zone out” practicando EE.

¿Hay algún hilo donde se explique estos cuatros tipos?
 
OrangeScorpion said:
Thanks Gonzo for your explication. Now I understand better. :)


If anyone can help me a bit more ... I've read in FOTCM section that there are four types of zone out practicing EE.

Is there a thread that explains these four types?

Could you provide a link to the post(s) where you read that?
 
Ailén said:
Could you provide a link to the post(s) where you read that?


Hi ailén, I have read that in the post Éiriú Eolas - Breathing Program, in recent messages.

In particular caught my attention the following message of Approaching Infinity:

Approaching Infinity said:
My point was that samadhi as Bennett describes it seems to be the same thing as zoning out. I think the danger would be for people to misinterpret the other phenomena as 'zoning' (i.e., associations, sleep, sleep-zoning), so the fact that he makes the differentiations is a good thing. Put in those terms, most of my zoning out has been of the third variety, rarely of the fourth. And even then, it's possible that one day I'll experience the fourth and realize I'd never really experienced it before, that I was confusing one with the other.
 
Well, I think that's all there is. I couldn't find anything else on the web about it. The four types were quoted by AI a little earlier on that thread:

Finally, there is the picture Gurdjieff has given of djartklom in relation to night and day. People do experience what this is about but usually fail to recognize it for what it is. During a meditation, it can happen, as many people report, that there comes about some kind of absence. These moments of not being there can be divided into four kinds. Firstly, there is just getting lost in associations and this is quite ordinary. Secondly, there is falling asleep. Then there is the sharp break, the sharp discontinuity, but one comes back as if waking out of sleep yet knowing it was not just ordinary sleep. Lastly, there is the genuine hiatus where one disappears and returns to exactly the same point not knowing if a minute or a second has elapsed. This is when our attention is exceptionally good. In the East it is known as Samadhi or trance.

Personally, I don't think one should worry too much about it. Some people just don't call those four things zoning out.

The first kind is dissociation, basically.

The second kind is sleep.

The third kind is, to my knowledge, the most common one during meditation. And I like to think of it as a time when your conscious and subconscious mind are establishing a dialogue, gently bringing emotions, memories and things you need to process to the surface.

Not sure I agree with the fact that "our attention is exceptionally good" during the fourth kind. Unless I misunderstood the quote, during trance a person can't be paying attention/be conscious, really. And it can be quite dangerous too.

My 2 cents, FWIW.
 
To zone out may be “when I feel the time is lost”.
I explain:

I started meditation on Zazen. This is to keep your mind on empty, remove any thought.
I focused on breathing and two words: Ham-Soo. 'Ham' for breathing in (noose), 'Soo' for breathing out (mouth).
A friend told me, you must this for 20 minutes.
When I started, on silence, I don't know 'what time is it or passed'.
I need to stop and check the watch.

The first day I stopped 4-5 times to check the watch.
The second day I stopped 2-3 times.
The third day I stopped just once, and the watch told me 55 minutes passed, not 20 minutes!

This for me was the 'first experience'.
Because I felt like: someone stole my time, like 'wasting an entire hour' here on the carpet.
It was a surprise, because I practice on lotus-flower-position, and it is difficult as my back hurts (at the beginning). So I also thought how I was able to support this pain for 1 hour. But I did not noticed it, it vanished.

This time lapse you cannot account for, is what helped me to identify the zone out experience.
A friend with knowledge on zazen pointed out that indeed, this time lapse is a very good sign.
It means the user is deeply focused.
The conscious mind lowers its activity, and the subconscious mind raise its activity.

Hope this helps you.
 
Ailén said:
Well, I think that's all there is. I couldn't find anything else on the web about it. The four types were quoted by AI a little earlier on that thread:

Finally, there is the picture Gurdjieff has given of djartklom in relation to night and day. People do experience what this is about but usually fail to recognize it for what it is. During a meditation, it can happen, as many people report, that there comes about some kind of absence. These moments of not being there can be divided into four kinds. Firstly, there is just getting lost in associations and this is quite ordinary. Secondly, there is falling asleep. Then there is the sharp break, the sharp discontinuity, but one comes back as if waking out of sleep yet knowing it was not just ordinary sleep. Lastly, there is the genuine hiatus where one disappears and returns to exactly the same point not knowing if a minute or a second has elapsed. This is when our attention is exceptionally good. In the East it is known as Samadhi or trance.

Personally, I don't think one should worry too much about it. Some people just don't call those four things zoning out.

I think this is pretty much the point. Don't get distracted or overly concerned with such definitions - just practice EE, relax and allow your mind/body/higher self to interact. Try to not intellectually micro-manage the process - just practice and experience it.
 
Ailén said:
Well, I think that's all there is. I couldn't find anything else on the web about it. The four types were quoted by AI a little earlier on that thread:

Finally, there is the picture Gurdjieff has given of djartklom in relation to night and day. People do experience what this is about but usually fail to recognize it for what it is. During a meditation, it can happen, as many people report, that there comes about some kind of absence. These moments of not being there can be divided into four kinds. Firstly, there is just getting lost in associations and this is quite ordinary. Secondly, there is falling asleep. Then there is the sharp break, the sharp discontinuity, but one comes back as if waking out of sleep yet knowing it was not just ordinary sleep. Lastly, there is the genuine hiatus where one disappears and returns to exactly the same point not knowing if a minute or a second has elapsed. This is when our attention is exceptionally good. In the East it is known as Samadhi or trance.

Personally, I don't think one should worry too much about it. Some people just don't call those four things zoning out.

The first kind is dissociation, basically.

The second kind is sleep.

The third kind is, to my knowledge, the most common one during meditation. And I like to think of it as a time when your conscious and subconscious mind are establishing a dialogue, gently bringing emotions, memories and things you need to process to the surface.

Not sure I agree with the fact that "our attention is exceptionally good" during the fourth kind. Unless I misunderstood the quote, during trance a person can't be paying attention/be conscious, really. And it can be quite dangerous too.

My 2 cents, FWIW.

I agree with all this. I should've been more clear that I didn't think the four states Bennett writes about should all be considered types of zoning out. The fourth is zoning, not the others. Sorry for the confusion that caused!

As for his remark about attention, the way I read it was that if we zone out, it means that our attention on the task was good. In other words, if your attention is good (i.e. focused on the prayer, not dissociating), zoning out is the result.
 
Ailén said:
Not sure I agree with the fact that "our attention is exceptionally good" during the fourth kind. Unless I misunderstood the quote, during trance a person can't be paying attention/be conscious, really. And it can be quite dangerous too.

I tried searching pubmed to see if there was any research on this 'samadhi' state. Found one paper that looks interesting:

_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19626355

Cogn Process. 2010 Feb;11(1):31-8. Epub 2009 Jul 22.
Theta activity and meditative states: spectral changes during concentrative meditation.

Baijal S, Srinivasan N.

Centre of Behavioral and Cognitive Sciences, University of Allahabad, Allahabad 211002, India.
Abstract

Brain oscillatory activity is associated with different cognitive processes and plays a critical role in meditation. In this study, we investigated the temporal dynamics of oscillatory changes during Sahaj Samadhi meditation (a concentrative form of meditation that is part of Sudarshan Kriya yoga). EEG was recorded during Sudarshan Kriya yoga meditation for meditators and relaxation for controls. Spectral and coherence analysis was performed for the whole duration as well as specific blocks extracted from the initial, middle, and end portions of Sahaj Samadhi meditation or relaxation. The generation of distinct meditative states of consciousness was marked by distinct changes in spectral powers especially enhanced theta band activity during deep meditation in the frontal areas. Meditators also exhibited increased theta coherence compared to controls. The emergence of the slow frequency waves in the attention-related frontal regions provides strong support to the existing claims of frontal theta in producing meditative states along with trait effects in attentional processing. Interestingly, increased frontal theta activity was accompanied reduced activity (deactivation) in parietal-occipital areas signifying reduction in processing associated with self, space and, time.
 
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