Zechariah 9:9 - a motif or what?

[mihaita9999]

I've had an argument related to Zechariah 9:9 from OT, easter and stuff, against the NT. Prophecy versus not prophecy - which I supported.

Where did they get that idea of a king ridding a donkey from? To whom was it applied by the writer(s) of Zechariah? Is that an image related to some gods or ancient important characters, a motif?

Thanks. Michael.

 

[Ottershrew]

Looks like a poetic motif to me, and Matthew seems to make this clear by saying that (21:7) Jesus is riding on both a donkey and a colt at the same time. This is actually quite a difficult thing to do, as the two animals tend to go in different directions, there's a problem with the difference in height between them, you kind of need to stretch your legs up so that you're practically doing the splits, etc. I could go on, but the point is, you'd stay on for approximately 0.2 microseconds. Of course, for God anything is possible - is this what your friend thinks? If he does, then he might possibly have some difficulty with congested thinking.

The basic ideas in this passage from Zechariah (osit) are reconciliation and the end of war: a king goes out to war on a horse (since it's bigger and faster) and comes back home after victory on a donkey (since it's quieter and its pace reflects the more peaceful situation). This reading seems to be confirmed in the context of Zech. 9:9, since verse 10 talks about "peace to the nations". Matthew (who implicitly refers back to Zechariah in his narrative in chapter 21) then has Jesus casting out the money-changers form the Temple, because the Temple is supposed to be "a house of prayer for all nations". So the dominant themes seem to be "peace" which is extended to everyone - not just those who considered themselves part of the Jewish dispensation.

Note, too, that Zechariah in chapter 9 seems to have revised Isaiah 62:10-12. The detail about first the donkey, and then the colt, has to do with Hebrew poetic parallelism - this is just an example of how they tended to construct poetry. It wasn't to be taken literally. Matthew probably knew this too, but - what the hey! - he probably thought, "It says here in Zechariah 'donkey', and then it says 'colt' - I'll chuck them both into my story."

So we're left with two options: (a) Matthew was a simpleton; (b) Matthew deliberately put this detail in to make it crystal clear to anyone that his text was not to be taken literally. It don't think there is an option (c). Origen writes that passages like this were deliberately inserted into Scripture to make sure that the careful reader would know that the really important stuff underlay the literal text. Well, I think he was being charitable with regard to the Bible, but he may have a point. For this kind of attitude, anyway, Origen was regarded with suspicion by the established Church.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[mihaita9999]

Thank you a lot for your detailed explanation. I also searched and find out that Dionysus was riding on an ass. It was a sacred animal for his cult. I found an ancient picture with him on a ship which has a donkey had at its front. So, I guess, it was a motif in the ancient world, used both in the OT and in the NT. Pretty sad for some (many) people.

Michael

 

[Ottershrew]

Thanks Michael

I think what you're suggesting (a link to Dionysus) has a lot to recommend it.

Tim Freke and Peter Gandy, in their book "The Jesus Mysteries", have this to say on the matter (you've probably read about all this already, but it's maybe useful to have it on the public forum all the same):

The gospels relate that Jesus goes out of his way to make sure he is mounted on a donkey. In vase representations, Dionysus is also often pictured astride a donkey, which carries him to meet his passion. The playwright Aristophanes writes of "the donkey who carried the Mysteries".

And then they provide the footnote here:

Jane Harrison ("Prolegomena to the Study of Greek Religion", 1922, p.617) connects the "donkey who carried the Mysteries" with the Golden Ass of Apuleius.

(Harrison's "Prolegomena" is still pretty much a standard introductory text on ancient Greek religion, or so I understand.)

And then further, Freke and Gandy continue:

When the crowd of pilgrims at Athens walked the Sacred Way to Eleusis to celebrate the Mysteries, a donkey carried a basket containing the sacred paraphernalia which would be used to create the idol of Dionysus, while the crowds shouted the praises of Dionysus and waved bundles of branches. In this way, like Jesus entering Jerusalem, Dionysus rode in triumph to his death.

The mythical motif of "riding on a donkey" is often taken as a sign of humility. It also has a more mystical meaning, however. To the ancients the donkey typified lust, cruelty and wickedness. It symbolically represented the lower "animal" self which must be overcome and subdued by an initiate of the Mysteries. Lucius Apuleius wrote a story called "The Golden Ass", which was an allegorical tale of initiation. In it Lucius is transformed into a donkey through his own foolishness and endures many adventures which represent stages of initiation. At his final initiation he is transformed back into a human being. This story is symbolic of the initiate being overcome by his lower nature and then, through initiation into the Mysteries, rediscovering his true identity ...

A favourite representation of afterlife sufferings in the Underworld was the figure of a man condemned to forever plait a rope which his donkey continually eats away, symbolic of the lower self constantly trying to eat away the spiritual achievements of the Higher self, i.e. the uninitiated never reach consummation. The figure of the godman riding in triumph on a donkey symbolized that he was master of his "animal" nature.

The authors use the phrase "Osiris-Dionysus" to refer to the godman of the ancient Mysteries, which were extremely popular in the 1st century AD. They explain:

At the heart of the Mysteries were myths concerning a dying and resurrecting godman, who was known by many different names. In Egypt he was Osiris, in Greece Dionysus, in Asia Minor Attis, in Syria Adonis, in Italy Bacchus, in Persia Mithras. Fundamentally all these godmen are the same mythical being.

From the 3rd century BC the combined name "Osiris-Dionysus" was in use. (Both Hecataeus of Abdera and Leon of Pella use this combined form at this time.) Freke and Gandy show an enormous number of correspondences, e.g.

• Jesus rides triumphantly into town on a donkey while crowds wave branches, as does Osiris-Dionysus.
• Jesus is a just man unjustly accused of heresy and bringing a new religion, as is Osiris-Dionysus.
• Jesus attacks hypocrites, stands up to tyranny and willingly goes to his death predicting he will rise again in three days, as do Pagan sages.
• Jesus is betrayed for 30 pieces of silver, a motif found in the story of Socrates.
• Jesus is equated with bread and wine, as is Osiris-Dionysus.
• Jesus’ disciples symbolically eat bread and drink wine to commune with him, as do the followers of Osiris-Dionysus.
• Jesus is hung on a tree or crucified, as is Osiris-Dionysus.
• etc., etc.

All in all, "The Jesus Mysteries" is a pretty useful book, imho.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Thanks Michael

I think what you're suggesting (a link to Dionysus) has a lot to recommend it.

Tim Freke and Peter Gandy, in their book "The Jesus Mysteries", have this to say on the matter (you've probably read about all this already, but it's maybe useful to have it on the public forum all the same):

The gospels relate that Jesus goes out of his way to make sure he is mounted on a donkey. In vase representations, Dionysus is also often pictured astride a donkey, which carries him to meet his passion. The playwright Aristophanes writes of "the donkey who carried the Mysteries".

Reminds me of someone else, too. ;)

Mullah Nassr Eddin