What globe? Flat Earth and Flat-Earthers

Richs

Dagobah Resident
Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

Duke said:
I'm picking up on the points in the video AND some information about the MF370 plane i.e. - Went Off radar and never got picked up at the next expected position.....
In the video, He asks Why the planes go on and off the tracking system when they are flying over the oceans given they are being tracked by GPS.
I'm only picking up points from the presentation. If no one has watched it than I can see why my points/questions are hard to fathom {apart from being crap at asking without context}
I'm sorry, I'm very tired at the moment {12hr N\s} I'll stop now.....
Maybe you didn't read all the posts in this thread, but I mentioned I had watched the video (as stupid as it was, it was a real chore to watch) nearly to the end and only quit when he started on the 'religion' topic for his (supposed) 'evidence'.

If you have been keeping up with the C's Transcripts, which have been posted, they answered what many of us suspected, that MF370 went into an alternate dimension, just like the TBF Avengers did off Florida many years ago. This had nothing to do with turning off GPS reporting or the radar transponder - which has to be on at all times with a specific code unique to each flight.
 

Duke

Jedi
Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

Yes Richard, I read what the C's have said and it seems like a better explanation than any that I have read.
I realize the stupidity of the whole thing...I'm just asking about some points I couldn't answer myself. And with the last couple of posts I'm much more informed. Just one of those Hmmmm moments. I never use the 'B' word, as soon as you think you know something you find out you where wrong at some later time..... Learning is Fun!!
ni-ni......
 

Foxx

The Living Force
Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

This thread reminds me of this quote from the Cs:

Laura said:
A: It is just as dangerous and just as useless to "see" conspiracy in everything s it is to "see" conspiracy in nothing. We tire of conspiracy "buffs." They are nutty, and serve as perfect false sponsors to those who really DO seek to conduct widespread mental/psychic manipulations and control.
 

Windmill knight

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Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

Wikipedia said:
The Flat Earth Society's most recent world model is that humanity lives on a disc, with the North Pole at its center and a 150-foot (45 m) high wall of ice (Antarctica) at the outer edge.[21] The resulting map resembles the symbol of the United Nations, which Johnson used as evidence for his position.[22] In this model, the Sun and Moon are each 32 miles (52 km) in diameter.[23]

Just this model raises so many questions that when I first heard of these guys I thought they were all paid trolls to keep alternative thinkers busy with some useless debate. Now it turns out they are mostly fundies, which sort of makes sense.

Among other questions out of the top of my head:

If the earth is a flat circle as described above, then the sun and moon move on a circle, always following a path between the Arctic and Antarctic. Why is it then that we see them rise and set every day? Why don't we see the sun at night?

Why don't we see their path making a wide circle on the sky, of which we should see at least half of it clearly, and the other half closer to the horizon?

As the sun races away from us in the sky, why do we perceive its movement as constant, crossing about a 6th of the sky every couple of hours? If the sun didn't really set and the earth was flat, it would need to speed up considerably as it approaches and moves away, while slowing down over our heads, for us to see an apparent constant speed. But if it were wildly changing gears, why do other people further east or west not see the remarkable acceleration as it flies past over their heads?

I'm sure many more can be thought of. Normally I try to approach new propositions with an open mind, regardless of how wild they sound at first. But if they don't pass some basic objections I really don't feel like spending two hours on watching their whole presentation.

Foxx said:
This thread reminds me of this quote from the Cs:

Laura said:
A: It is just as dangerous and just as useless to "see" conspiracy in everything s it is to "see" conspiracy in nothing. We tire of conspiracy "buffs." They are nutty, and serve as perfect false sponsors to those who really DO seek to conduct widespread mental/psychic manipulations and control.

Indeed.
 

luke wilson

The Living Force
Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

Call me dogmatic but my mind rejects the theory that the earth is flat...

However, I don't know if this has been answered already, I'm curious, and by no means did I come up with this question, (which is funny!), if the earth is a globe, when aeroplanes fly in a straight line, why don't they fly off the globe? :lol: :lol: :lol:

For the life of me, I don't know why... LOL

On a side note... I watched a documentary recently about the simulation theory... don't know if the one pointed by the original poster links to it as both argue about the world being technologically created. I haven't watched the one posted by the original poster.

_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqVrIBkhqOo .50 minutes long, ok documentary, interesting stuff about Einstein plus they explain the double slit experiment in a way that is easy to understand - at least it was for me. However, highly doubt what their arguments meant we were a computer simulation. I was more inclined to think maybe 3D reality is a projection of some sort from somewhere else.
 

Buddy

The Living Force
Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

luke wilson said:
...if the earth is a globe, when aeroplanes fly in a straight line, why don't they fly off the globe?

How would an airplane even know it was flying in a "straight line?" Altimeter readings? If the earth is a globe and the airplane maintained a consistent height from the ground for miles and miles, then the airplane would simply follow the curvature of the earth. If the earth was flat, the line would be 'straight', if it is curved, the line would be curved. Either way the airplane is ignorant, I think, and not likely to fly off anything.

Still curious?
 

luke wilson

The Living Force
Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

Buddy said:
luke wilson said:
...if the earth is a globe, when aeroplanes fly in a straight line, why don't they fly off the globe?

How would an airplane even know it was flying in a "straight line?" Altimeter readings? If the earth is a globe and the airplane maintained a consistent height from the ground for miles and miles, then the airplane would simply follow the curvature of the earth. If the earth was flat, the line would be 'straight', if it is curved, the line would be curved. Either way the airplane is ignorant, I think, and not likely to fly off anything.

Still curious?

Ah, I see, as long as it maintained a consistent height from the ground then there is no risk of flying off the globe. Makes sense! Lol

But what would happen if it flew in a straight line, not upwards like a rocket but across the surface, not following the curvature... would it fly off the globe? :D
 

Buddy

The Living Force
Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

luke wilson said:
But what would happen if it flew in a straight line, not upwards like a rocket but across the surface, not following the curvature... would it fly off the globe? :D

Yeah, I saw that coming. :rolleyes: :)

You mean because it's using the star field as reference? Well then we may just have a "thrust to how-much-jet-fuel-can-I-hold" issue to address.
 

Skyalmian

Jedi Master
Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

I meandered across this in 2013:
_http://www.wildheretic.com/concave-earth-theory

(Summary: Theory goes that this is—my interpretation—the equivalent of a full-sphere Halo Ringworld (no 'edges') ( _http://infinispace.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/ringworld.jpg ).)
 

Richs

Dagobah Resident
Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

Buddy said:
luke wilson said:
But what would happen if it flew in a straight line, not upwards like a rocket but across the surface, not following the curvature... would it fly off the globe? :D

Yeah, I saw that coming. :rolleyes: :)

You mean because it's using the star field as reference? Well then we may just have a "thrust to how-much-jet-fuel-can-I-hold" issue to address.

It is not possible for an airplane to fly off the Earth. The engines need the oxygen in the air to support the combustion of the engine fuel and there is a minimum amount of air pressure needed to provide enough lift from the wings to support the weight of the plane. Most commercial aircraft can reach about 40,000 feet altitude and some jet fighters and specialty aircraft can reach a fair amount higher. For any aircraft, the maximum height above sea level it can reach is called the service ceiling and the plane is limited to that maximum height at it's normal operating weight.

In order to reach space, or to be able to 'fly away from Earth' into an orbit, one needs to attain a velocity of about 17,100 miles per hour relative to the Earth's surface at a height of about 200 miles or so. This can only be done today with rockets, which carry both the fuel and the Oxygen source in the vehicle which can provide the extreme thrust for long enough to attain that speed and altitude.
 

Buddy

The Living Force
Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

Skyalmian said:
I meandered across this in 2013:
_http://www.wildheretic.com/concave-earth-theory

(Summary: Theory goes that this is—my interpretation—the equivalent of a full-sphere Halo Ringworld (no 'edges') ( _http://infinispace.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/ringworld.jpg ).)

Well, this has been an interesting diversion. Loved the female astronaut strange hair pics and such.
 

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Seaniebawn

Jedi Master
Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

Buddy said:
Skyalmian said:
I meandered across this in 2013:
_http://www.wildheretic.com/concave-earth-theory

(Summary: Theory goes that this is—my interpretation—the equivalent of a full-sphere Halo Ringworld (no 'edges') ( _http://infinispace.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/ringworld.jpg ).)

Well, this has been an interesting diversion. Loved the female astronaut strange hair pics and such.

I like this one :rotfl:
giphy.gif
 

Chu

Administrator
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Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

Here's something that caught my attention. Not sure whether this guy is onto something or not, but it would make sense, I guess. And now, people are buying the flat earth ridiculousness again????

_http://www.asa3.org/ASA/topics/history/1997Russell.html

The Myth of the Flat Earth
Jeffrey Burton Russell

A paper by Jeffrey Burton Russell for the American Scientific Affiliation Annual Meeting August 4, 1997 at Westmont College summarizing his book Inventing the Flat Earth: Columbus and Modern Historians (1997) pb.

How does investigating the myth of the flat earth help teachers of the history of science?

First, as a historian, I have to admit that it tells us something about the precariousness of history. History is precarious for three reasons: the good reason that it is extraordinarily difficult to determine "what really happened" in any series of events; the bad reason that historical scholarship is often sloppy; and the appalling reason that far too much historical scholarship consists of contorting the evidence to fit ideological models. The worst examples of such contortions are the Nazi and Communist histories of the early- and mid-twentieth century.

Contortions that are common today, if not widely recognized, are produced by the incessant attacks on Christianity and religion in general by secular writers during the past century and a half, attacks that are largely responsible for the academic and journalistic sneers at Christianity today.

A curious example of this mistreatment of the past for the purpose of slandering Christians is a widespread historical error, an error that the Historical Society of Britain some years back listed as number one in its short compendium of the ten most common historical illusions. It is the notion that people used to believe that the earth was flat--especially medieval Christians.

It must first be reiterated that with extraordinary few exceptions no educated person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the earth was flat. A round earth appears at least as early as the sixth century BC with Pythagoras, who was followed by Aristotle, Euclid, and Aristarchus, among others in observing that the earth was a sphere. Although there were a few dissenters--Leukippos and Demokritos for example--by the time of Eratosthenes (3 c. BC), followed by Crates(2 c. BC), Strabo (3 c. BC), and Ptolemy (first c. AD), the sphericity of the earth was accepted by all educated Greeks and Romans.

Nor did this situation change with the advent of Christianity. A few, at least two and at most five--early Christian fathers denied the spherically of earth by mistakenly taking passages such as Ps. 104:2-3 as geographical rather than metaphorical statements. On the other side tens of thousands of Christian theologians, poets, artists, and scientists took the spherical view throughout the early, medieval, and modern church. The point is that no educated person believed otherwise.

Historians of science have been proving this point for at least 70 years (most recently Edward Grant, David Lindberg, Daniel Woodward, and Robert S. Westman), without making notable headway against the error. Schoolchildren in the US, Europe, and Japan are for the most part being taught the same old nonsense. How and why did this nonsense emerge?

In my research, I looked to see how old the idea was that medieval Christians believed the earth was flat. I obviously did not find it among medieval Christians. Nor among anti-Catholic Protestant reformers. Nor in Copernicus or Galileo or their followers, who had to demonstrate the superiority of a heliocentric system, but not of a spherical earth. I was sure I would find it among the eighteenth-century philosophers, among all their vitriolic sneers at Christianity, but not a word.

I am still amazed at where it first appears. No one before the 1830s believed that medieval people thought that the earth was flat. The idea was established, almost contemporaneously, by a Frenchman and an American, between whom I have not been able to establish a connection, though they were both in Paris at the same time. One was Antoine-Jean Letronne (1787-1848), an academic of strong antireligious prejudices who had studied both geography and patristics and who cleverly drew upon both to misrepresent the church fathers and their medieval successors as believing in a flat earth, in his On the Cosmographical Ideas of the Church Fathers (1834).

The American was no other than our beloved storyteller Washington Irving (1783-1859), who loved to write historical fiction under the guise of history. His misrepresentations of the history of early New York City and of the life of Washington were topped by his history of Christopher Columbus (1828). It was he who invented the indelible picture of the young Columbus, a "simple mariner," appearing before a dark crowd of benighted inquisitors and hooded theologians at a council of Salamanca, all of whom believed, according to Irving, that the earth was flat like a plate. Well, yes, there was a meeting at Salamanca in 1491, but Irving's version of it, to quote a distinguished modern historian of Columbus, was "pure moonshine. Washington Irving, scenting his opportunity for a picturesque and moving scene," created a fictitious account of this "nonexistent university council" and "let his imagination go completely...the whole story is misleading and mischievous nonsense."

But now, why did the false accounts of Letronne and Irving become melded and then, as early as the 1860s, begin to be served up in schools and in schoolbooks as the solemn truth? The answer is that the falsehood about the spherical earth became a colorful and unforgettable part of a larger falsehood: the falsehood of the eternal war between science (good) and religion (bad) throughout Western history.

This vast web of falsehood was invented and propagated by the influential historian John Draper (1811-1882) and many prestigious followers, such as Andrew Dickson White (1832-1918), the president of Cornell University, who made sure that the false account was perpetrated in texts, encyclopedias, and even allegedly serious scholarship, down to the present day. A lively current version of the lie can be found in Daniel Boorstin's The Discoverers, found in any bookshop or library.

The reason for promoting both the specific lie about the sphericity of the earth and the general lie that religion and science are in natural and eternal conflict in Western society, is to defend Darwinism. The answer is really only slightly more complicated than that bald statement. The flat-earth lie was ammunition against the creationists. The argument was simple and powerful, if not elegant: "Look how stupid these Christians are. They are always getting in the way of science and progress. These people who deny evolution today are exactly the same sort of people as those idiots who for at least a thousand years denied that the earth was round. How stupid can you get?"

But that is not the truth.
 

Laura

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Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?


Well, Ark has come up with a way to prove or disprove the theory. To understand it, here is an image of how the flat earthers picture the earth:

Flat_earth.png


Now, I don't think that the flat earthers have given up on gravity... so, if they have not, then the obvious way to prove that the earth is flat is to first determine the thickness of the "plane of the earth" and to then stand at one of the further reaches of land surface and hold a pendulum in your hand. If it hangs at an angle, pointing toward your supposed "center of gravity" (i.e. the center of the plane), then you have proved that the earth is flat. If, however, the pendulum hangs straight down everywhere on the earth, then the earth is roundish.
 

Keyhole

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Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

Interesting that this thread has popped up now as I have searched this forum for any information on Flat Earth theory and basically found nothing. For the past few months my mum has been attempting to convert me and others to to the belief that the earth is flat. This has resulted in endless heated discussions which are usually finished with me being accused of having a closed-mind and brainwashed by society and science. I can first-handedly say that this Flat Earth thing is very cult like. From what I can see it encourages its followers to disregard modern-day scientific knowledge in favour of blind belief, much like religion.

The arguements are mostly illogical and attempt to prove points by disproving other points, which doesn't work. For instance: "NASA lied about this, therefore all astrophysics is a lie". Completely throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Windmill knight said:
Just this model raises so many questions that when I first heard of these guys I thought they were all paid trolls to keep alternative thinkers busy with some useless debate. Now it turns out they are mostly fundies, which sort of makes sense.
Chu said:
The reason for promoting both the specific lie about the sphericity of the earth and the general lie that religion and science are in natural and eternal conflict in Western society, is to defend Darwinism. The answer is really only slightly more complicated than that bald statement. The flat-earth lie was ammunition against the creationists. The argument was simple and powerful, if not elegant: "Look how stupid these Christians are. They are always getting in the way of science and progress. These people who deny evolution today are exactly the same sort of people as those idiots who for at least a thousand years denied that the earth was round. How stupid can you get?"


There is a theory that the Flat Earth Society is actually COINTELPRO with the aims of attracting alternative thinkers who do not believe the official NASA narrative, leading them to believe in something so outragous, so that in future times of unrest the PTB can basically say "Look! These people are stupid! They still believe the earth is flat!" thereby discrediting everything else that these alternative thinkers say or do.
 
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