What globe? Flat Earth and Flat-Earthers

Flashgordonv said:
There is just such a debate raging on one of my Facebook posts at the moment. A gentleman named Steve McFarland, who I think might frequent this forum, responded to the recent SOTT article about celebs embracing the FE concept

https://www.sott.net/article/345770-Yet-more-celebrities-have-admitted-that-they-believe-the-Earth-is-actually-flat
...

This is very odd. Here's a list of trans-Antartica / trans-Globe efforts:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Antarctic_expeditions#cite_note-29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_Trans-Antarctic_Expedition

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_International_Trans-Antarctica_Expedition

http://www.southpolestation.com/trivia/history/steger.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transglobe_Expedition

http://transglobe-expedition.org/antarctica/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amundsen%E2%80%93Scott_South_Pole_Station

GCMAP

Celebs may organize and pay, take a ride, count the miles with simple 2D technology. End of the story ;)
 
Pashalis said:
clerck de bonk said:
Laura said:
bjorn said:
[quote author= Win52]Right now, my Son is on a flat Earth kick.

That's not good to hear! I don't know, but how about buying a ticket for him to sit in a jetfighter or hot-air balloon that touches stratosphere heights, those tours exist and from that height he can witness and see for himself that the Earth is round. I mean, it may cost a dime, but it sure beats a million pointless discussions. OSIT.

Might be helpful for anyone on such a kick to take flying lessons - especially from a school that teaches you to plot courses and navigate by simple instruments for the basics, before you use instrument flying. You really learn how you have to accommodate curvature, drift, etc.
There's a cheaper way. Take him to the sea shore (vacation at same time!) near a port. Bring a pair of strong binoculars. Have him look at the traffic (oncoming or leaving) just at the horizon, or slightly behind it (works better if you are in an elevated position). Have him describe what he sees, in what angle are the vessels, do they seem to go "uphill" (when approaching)?

Unfortunately they already have some nutty theories going on, on how this can be explained away, to fit the flat earth. I think flying is probably the best way, if that doesn't help, nothing will. Or so it seems.
[/quote]

He has been in a jet at 35,000 feet and still thinks it's flat. They are lying to us about being to the Moon and things like that. Nothing that I say seems to change his mind. So I am just letting it be. In the end I likely will have little say in what he decides. He will do what he will do.

Possibly going into high Earth orbit would convince him, but at the moment we are busy putting food on the table and paying the bills. We are doing what we need to, in order to be here tomorrow.

I am going to have to trust that something will happen to make him change his mind.
 
Pashalis said:
clerck de bonk said:
Laura said:
bjorn said:
[quote author= Win52]Right now, my Son is on a flat Earth kick.

That's not good to hear! I don't know, but how about buying a ticket for him to sit in a jetfighter or hot-air balloon that touches stratosphere heights, those tours exist and from that height he can witness and see for himself that the Earth is round. I mean, it may cost a dime, but it sure beats a million pointless discussions. OSIT.

Might be helpful for anyone on such a kick to take flying lessons - especially from a school that teaches you to plot courses and navigate by simple instruments for the basics, before you use instrument flying. You really learn how you have to accommodate curvature, drift, etc.
There's a cheaper way. Take him to the sea shore (vacation at same time!) near a port. Bring a pair of strong binoculars. Have him look at the traffic (oncoming or leaving) just at the horizon, or slightly behind it (works better if you are in an elevated position). Have him describe what he sees, in what angle are the vessels, do they seem to go "uphill" (when approaching)?

Unfortunately they already have some nutty theories going on, on how this can be explained away, to fit the flat earth. I think flying is probably the best way, if that doesn't help, nothing will. Or so it seems.
[/quote]
 
Laura said:
WIN 52 said:
He is turning 33 in May and has 2 girls and a boy.

I think the Cs were likely on the money when they suggested that those who really buy into the flat earth business are Organic Portals - souls that have just recently graduated from 2D; due to the 2D perception of that reality, they are unable yet to conceptualize 3D or abstractions such as imagining the globe as round, because it is so large and appears flat locally. They have problems with issues of scale and estimation of distance and time.

I remember once while living in shared accommodations, one of the other renters had a cat. An 'indoor' cat. -Meaning the creature had never been outside before.

On a particularly nice day, we thought it might be a good idea to take the animal up to the roof. There was a little garden up there, and nowhere for her to escape to.

She was a bit confused when she was picked up and taken from the apartment and walked up the building stair well. -Like, "I don't know what my stupid humans are up to, but whatever. We'll see where this-WHOA!!!!"

I think it was the endless sky that was too much for her. -Which seemed odd, given that she'd seen it many times from the window.

The poor thing flattened to the ground, wet herself and shivered in a worrying kind of way. She was immobilized by panic. We tried to assure her, but after a minute or so, made no progress. She was in such distress that we returned her to the apartment.

And that was how a small cat mind/soul dealt with a big head-on encounter with Greater Reality.

Perhaps if we'd forced her to stay on the rooftop for a day or so, she would have managed to acclimatize, but had she been given the choice I doubt she would have opted to tough out such a distressing experience.

Now, not all 'indoor' cats are like this.

Years later, my neighboring apartment (ground floor) got a new tenant who moved in with a de-clawed cat, an animal which had been born indoors and had grown up indoors. His favorite spot was the window. You could almost feel the craving the animal had for the outdoors when you'd walk past the window and see him craning his neck for a better view.

Over the course of the Summer, I was in a position to observe the evolution of his thinking and behavior. One time, after weeks of his being pressed up against the glass, (particularly fascinated by the 'outdoor' cats who would pass him by), he managed to sneak out while I was in the driveway.

He was clearly terrified but had initiated the exploration on his own. He stood just outside the door, half frozen with wide eyes, and made no effort to resist when I picked him up and brought him back to his owner.

The next time, a few days later, he made it all the way to the garden. He was still very nervous, but not locked up by his fear, and again didn't resist when I brought him back inside. -He was just kind of thoughtfully resigned, if one can say that about a cat.

Then he got the hang of it. He managed to out-maneuver his owner's will and the various barriers preventing his escape, and he became an established indoor/outdoor cat. You'd see him exploring the garden and bushes, and he'd even visit the other tenants. He came to visit me in my apartment sometimes, and instead of returning him home, I'd let him leave on his own, or kick him out when I needed to go and lock the place up. He had an interesting life for the next month or so and really seemed to be growing into himself; he was much more now than the tentative animal always peering out of the window.

Then he was gone.

The sad end of this little story is that he was found dead in the street. The complexities of cars and roads at the far end of our yard had done him in.

Now...

This left me thoughtful for a long time after.

Some semi-related observations:

1. Forcing revelation upon a little soul before it asks or is ready is probably a great way to bias them against revelation in general. I can't imagine that first cat wouldn't have suffered some kind of PTSD style trauma regarding the very idea of 'outdoors'. She lived for many years -inside- after her frightening rooftop experience.

2. I really admired that second cat, and though I'm sad he died, I still think he was brave and wonderful and I wouldn't have changed anything about his learning curve, -except to have perhaps had somebody around to help him work out cars and roads without it being fatal. Even then, the way cats are wrt territories and their internal programming, -and being declawed, (thanks to the medical industry) any number of other dangers in the outdoor world would probably have ended his life early.

3. My own way of dealing, my own comforting "Flat Earth" theory is that souls reincarnate and get to try again despite all the horrible things which can happen to cause suffering and premature death.

Luckily, the evidence for reincarnation leans towards its being so without the need for "Thick, light obstructing air" and the Sun being only 3000 miles away.
 
Just a general comment here: I notice that several former members of this forum who were early identified as having issues of various sorts, have gotten on the Flat Earth bandwagon. And when I say "issues", I mean that there are long threads about them in the mods forum where extended debates took place on how best to help this/that person who appeared to be struggling in some respect. In two cases, enormous resources were spent on trying to help the person in hopes that if their personal lives could be stabilized, their declared wish to "work on themselves" might go more smoothly. It seems that these two cases - where we gave a lot of resources (time, effort, funds) - are the ones displaying the most pathology now and the most animosity towards this forum, the Cs, and me personally. That is certainly curious. It reminds me of that saying of Gurdjieff:


"Such is the nature of man, that for your first gift—he prostrates himself;
for your second—kisses your hand;
for the third—fawns;
for the fourth—just nods his head once;
for the fifth— becomes too familiar; for the sixth—insults you;
and for the seventh—sues you because he was not given enough."

Anyway, the reason I bring this up is because I am certainly curious about what kind of mentality would buy into such nonsense. I don't think it can be blamed on lack of education because many individuals with just basic education and skills are able to grasp the abstractions needed to understand that the sheer size of the planet in relation to humans is what gives it an apparent flatness up close. They can also look at the pencil in the glass of water, see how the image is distorted, and apply that to how similar distortions take place due to apparent atmospheric thickening due to curvature. Most people, if you show them a small section of the earth with a human standing on it, drawn TO SCALE, will easily understand all of this.

One of the things necessary for this type of understanding is this concept of SCALE. If you look at a map, the map will tell you the scale, like 1 inch equals 10, 20 or 50 miles or so. Such maps are usually of a very, VERY restricted/small area of the globe.

Most classroom globes are 41 cm/16 inches in diameter. The circumference of Earth at the equator is about 40,030 km/ 24,874 miles. That means that each cm that you measure on that globe equals about 1000 KM. The average person can see about 3 miles distance standing on flat ground. At that point, the curvature of the earth becomes apparent. If you stand on a 50 ft platform, you can see maybe 8 miles. And so on. The higher you are, the greater distance you can see but the curvature of the earth will still limit your seeing. You would have to be over 500K feet up to see almost 1000 miles which is almost two cms on the model globe.

Now, if you wanted to build a model of the solar system starting from the 41 cm circumference globe, the Moon would be a 10 cm/4 in ball floating 12 metres/40 feet away from the earth. That is something you can model. Use a globe and a baseball and measure off 40 feet. You will probably have to do it outside. However, if you want to bring the sun into this model, you would have to have a ball with a diameter equal to the height of a 14 story building 5 kilometres/3.1 mi away.

These are sizes and distances and MOTIONS that seem to be very difficult for these people to conceptualize. That suggests that something in their brain is operating at a very primitive level or something is not operating at all. My ex-husband was a very bright guy in many ways, but he never was able to understand what causes seasons. I even set up a floor lamp to be the sun, and took a globe and walked around the lamp holding the globe in the proper tilted orientation and spinning it all the while, to demonstrate the phenomenon. He said "that's impossible." Right then, I knew there was a problem.

So, for me, the most interesting phenomenon here is the mental workings of people who buy into this nonsense: their apparent incapacity for certain kinds of thinking. And, in the cases mentioned at the beginning, it was clear that there were thinking/perception issues already there long before the Flat Earth business came into play. So, naturally, I wonder how that is related. I will add that in two cases, the individuals seem to be basically good hearted, for lack of a better description, but in one case, the individual was demonstrating a lot of traits of psychopathy. So again, I find that curious.

ADDED: I don't know if it would help, but such a person should consider how LONG it takes to travel a mile, ten miles, a hundred miles, a thousand miles. Think about walking it; think about driving it; think about flying it and consider the speeds involved in all three forms of locomotion. For example, if you drive 70 mph without stopping or other delays, you can travel a thousand miles in a bit over 14 HOURS. That's a whole DAY (excluding the night time). If you walk 2.5 mph, which is average, it will take a MONTH to walk that 1000 miles. If they walked constantly, never stopped for anything, and could walk on water, it would take TWO YEARS to walk around the planet. So, if they can look at the globe, measure off the 1000 miles and understand that it can take a MONTH to walk just that tiny section of our planet, perhaps the scale might begin to make an impression.
 
We are working on a house that is on the ocean near Williams Beach. We should have been able to see Vancouver but couldn't, which is what a round Earth would be like. Yet on the day that I was observing the Ocean from Williams Beach, Vancouver was clearly visible. This proves the mirage effect. Lately he is being quiet about the flat Earth theory. I think that it means he is not as sure about the Earth being flat.

I told him that it is just like me going on a high fat diet. He also thought that I had gone mad and would end up killing myself. Now he and his family are eating fat and loving it. He is cutting down on sugar consumption and other things that I have been promoting. His children are not vaccinated. He buys organic food for his family. He does a lot of things right.

It seems that the school system in what and how they teach have many on a cliff.

The best thing that I can do is to continue to lead by example. Hopefully the shock will not be too much, when it comes.
 
Re: Is the Earth an enclosed technologically created world, and NOT a globe?

no-man's-land said:
... I guess, this is one example (besides the "hollow earth" people) where one can see that believing a lie actually really can damage your brain in a physical way.
(I just realized I was reading/replying to the beginning of this thread, not the end so I hope this isn't redundant)

Believing in the idea of a "hollow earth" is not necessarily "believing a lie". Though the earth is not completely "hollow", the C's have confirmed there may be legitimates reasons for such beliefs, which has persisted throughout cultures and history:

https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,34920.msg496566.html#msg496566
There's a lot more in this thread, but here's a small excerpt:
Q: (L) Are you saying... (TK) They have given birth and these children have never seen our world... (L) How can an entire race of people, or groups of people, live under the surface of this planet, without the whole 6 billion of the rest of us on top, or at least a large number, realizing that there is anything going on? This is so wild an idea...
A: No. How much space exists underground, as opposed to that on the surface?
Q: (L) A lot, I suppose. You aren't saying that the earth is hollow, are you?
A: No, not exactly.
Q: (L) Well, how deep is the deepest of these underground cities?
A: 3,108 miles.

Here's another related thread:
https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,39450.msg696348.html#msg696348
 
Lately I see alot of these Flat Earth believers, which I am familiar with from our group, active on Facebook. They post alot of stuff about this, even up to the point it becomes (for lack of a better word) annoying.

I truly cannot fathom their mind, how they think. It is so bizarre. To them, every reasonable argument for the Earth being a sphere is either disinformation, untrue or ignored. And they are being rude to people who point the obvious out to them: that they are wrong.

Their way of thinking (if you can call it that), starts to take everything into doubt, like certain basic historic events (that can be proven). It borders on the absurd.

It almost looks to me as if I am following a couple of SJW (Social Justice Warriors).

It got me thinking. Is it a virus, they are infected by? And because they have a lower "spiritual immune system", are easily caught by it? (Like a wetiko). Or are they just disintegrating? Or do it just out some kind of spite towards others, to rile them up by going against all common logic? (Or maybe that is the effect) Or just to attract attention?

Does it help them at all to discuss, or is this just a distraction for us to drain our energies?

I don't know. But I sure am one click away to de-friend them, seeing that is of no use debating them and it is getting worse...
 
The flat earth movement has grown quite large and is now said to have members all over the Globe.

A Psy Op from start to Finish.

I wont go into the spiritual aspect , that makes people with a Flat Earth Mind set
more susceptible to negative entities.

But the Cognitive Dissonance produced by literally Pulling the Rug out from under people is immense.

As a Group they differed from many other trolls and Co Intel agents by being extremely
welcoming and friendly.

let's face it many people are on the net becasue they feel they have disconnected with the sleeping sheep,
and are seeking support and rerassurance.

Flat Earthers offered a community spirit,
Underlying many F E fools , is an attitude of
"we know its fake but its fun to fool people,"
Duping Delight being very much in evidence.

However the best Video I Know for Opening peoples Eyes is this One.

"Flat Earth is Freemasonry Stupid " Enjoy.
Featuyres Eric Dubay and mark Sergeant,

https://youtu.be/wQFXRixc99A
 
Laura said:
Now, if you wanted to build a model of the solar system starting from the 41 cm circumference globe, the Moon would be a 10 cm/4 in ball floating 12 metres/40 feet away from the earth. That is something you can model. Use a globe and a baseball and measure off 40 feet. You will probably have to do it outside. However, if you want to bring the sun into this model, you would have to have a ball with a diameter equal to the height of a 14 story building 5 kilometres/3.1 mi away.

Here's a cool video of a model that was built of the solar system respecting the proportions:


https://youtu.be/zR3Igc3Rhfg
 
Snow said:
Their way of thinking (if you can call it that), starts to take everything into doubt, like certain basic historic events (that can be proven). It borders on the absurd.
This is why so many people are subconsciously reluctant to believe any "conspiracy theories". This is why they cling so hard to what authorities say.

Because if they do start believing it, if they allow any possibility of what is considered a "conspiracy theory" to be true, then every single one of them becomes a possibility for them, no matter how absurd it is.
Because it's not about reasoning. It's not about logic. It's about lacking a "sensory organ" that allows to see the difference.

It's like with trying to describe the difference in colors to a person with color blindness. You can't. Nobody can. The perception is so different that they have absolutely no way of understanding what you are talking about. They might even be absolutely sure that what they see is all that there is, and no matter how much anyone "proves" it to them that they're wrong, they won't see it.
 
Several things among many which stand out for me about flat earthers is train tracks, aeroplanes and moon landings.

They often say that engineers have stated they never account for the curvature of the Earth when laying train tracks, this for them is proof of FE. They can't grasp that they don't need to account for it as the the track will be laid more or less the same distance from the centre of gravity of the Earth. Just use a spirit level or surveying equipment on every section of track and away you go. They reason that if the Earth was a ball a long stretch of track, lets say 100 miles, would have to rise hundreds of feet in the middle! And of course, in the FE theory there ain't no gravity!

They think that if a plane took off and started flying at a constant height the pilot would have to constantly nose the plane down or they would fly higher and higher and maybe eventually hit the dome?

For some reason I don't quite understand, they usually come up with fake moon landings as proof of FE. If anyone can explain the connection between whether or not they went to the moon to a flat Earth I would appreciate it, because you'll not get a straight answer from a flat Earther.
 
Janek said:
For me personally, one of the best proof, that Earth is round and that don't requires any too long journey or much expenditure is Foucault Pendulum. It not only proves Earth's rotational movement, but it's rotation frequency depends on longitude that pendulum is located at. It would be veery hard to explain it with flat earth model.

bjorn said:
Btw, what is the point of telling the "big lie' that the Earth is round and not flat. What's the reason behind it? Why the big conspiracy, what's the big gain the Elites get out of this? I never understood that, that said, I never really delved into it. Time can be spend in better ways.

That's good question. With so many lies in the air told by media, government etc. some basic facts for some people became lies as well I guess.

Foucalt Pendulum looks really great. Although this is quite a sophisticated example. For me personally the "proof" that Earth is round were observations of the moon, sun, stars and photographies and videos of the sun, other planets and stars. It was somewhere when I was several years old. I concluded that if Earth is also a planet then Earth should be round too. If not, then Earth wouldn't be able to be part of the system. In the other words, it is impossible to have flat Earth in the round universe, where all the rules influence round shape universe. That was probably thanks to my parents who in my early childhood gave a game when I needed to match elements. Like insert round thing into the round hole. I fast learned that for example the square thing can't be insert in the triangle hole, and it is the same with flat Earth, flat Earth can't be insert in round universe. From those experiences I didn't change my views about round Earth.
 
There is some new Photographic Proof .
17630074_1821410504851358_4767309514791006624_n.jpg
 
SocietyoftheSpectacle said:
There is some new Photographic Proof .
17630074_1821410504851358_4767309514791006624_n.jpg

Proof of what, could you provide a reference? Although a photo doesn't "prove" anything, it would be helpful for the discussion. :)
 
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