What globe? Flat Earth and Flat-Earthers

[lahje]

hey, i finally got myself an account. It might have been already discussed, but if you take a flat round object (lets say a coin) and photograph it from near surface level, the horizon is still curved. These flat earthers have to photoshop their pics to get the horizon look straight. here's a video demonstrating it https://youtu.be/pr3oAGnSEmk?t=3m37s . (don't mind the dude's bad english subtitles, he's a superb guy acting as a frontliner against nuclear murderers.)

maybe this flat earth thing is just another try from CIA to mislead ppl in search of information. Or maybe they mean it "flat" as in "hologram" hmm...

 

[MichaelM]

On another forum where the subject of "flat-earth' was brought up, the poster quite eloquently pointed out his experience with some junior architects involved in building an aqueduct using their new fangled laser leveling tools. As the project progressed it was discovered that the walls of the aqueduct were gently sloping upwards; their laser, as expected, didn't follow the curvature of the earth.

 

[Cosmos]

I'm wondering if the decline of civilization in general (let's say especially in the last 100 years) in terms of reasoning and being, has contributed, over time, to seed ever more people that "go back to 2D" rather then progressing towards more knowledge and being? Maybe the dumber a civilization gets, the more likely it becomes, the longer this continues, that more people are born with a seed that fits more to 2D rather then 3D and upwards?

Also the C's statements here, somehow look interesting in that context:

Life is religion. Life experiences reflect how one interacts with God. Those who are asleep are those of little faith in terms of their interaction with the creation. Some people think that the world exists for them to overcome or ignore or shut out. For those individuals, the worlds will cease. They will become exactly what they give to life. They will become merely a dream in the "past". People who pay strict attention to objective reality right and left, become the reality of the "Future".

[quote author= Session 28 November 2009]Q (L): On all of them. Put it on all of them. Okay, so now you say that we have taken steps towards joy. The joy of a new world.

A: The wave is coming, you are teaching people to surf it instead of being dragged under and out to stormy seas.

Q: (L) You once said that the wave was something like "hyperkinetic sensate". And I've often wondered if that means that it's something that massively amplifies whatever is inside an individual?And if that were the case and they were full of a lot of unpleasant, painful, miserable feelings, repressed and suppressed thoughts and so forth, and something that was hyperkinetic sensate amplified all of that, what would it do to that individual? I mean, can you imagine any of us in our worst state of feeling yucky and then having that amplified a bazillion times? If it was bad stuff inside you, you would implode!

A: Soul smashing!

Q: (L) So it is really important for people to go through this process of cleansing to prepare themselves for that?

A: Yes, then they will "rise up with wings as eagles"![/quote]

 

[mkrnhr]

There is definitively a deterioration of cognitive abilities through time, which seems to be accelerating recently. If certain abilities are not used, they disappear.
For example there is this study done in Iceland:

Epidemiological and genetic association studies show that genetics play an important role in the attainment of education. Here, we investigate the effect of this genetic component on the reproductive history of 109,120 Icelanders and the consequent impact on the gene pool over time. We show that an educational attainment polygenic score, POLYEDU, constructed from results of a recent study is associated with delayed reproduction (P less than 10−100) and fewer children overall. The effect is stronger for women and remains highly significant after adjusting for educational attainment. Based on 129,808 Icelanders born between 1910 and 1990, we find that the average POLYEDU has been declining at a rate of ∼0.010 standard units per decade, which is substantial on an evolutionary timescale. Most importantly, because POLYEDU only captures a fraction of the overall underlying genetic component the latter could be declining at a rate that is two to three times faster.

link: http://www.pnas.org/content/114/5/E727.full.pdf

Another article about this genetic devolution starts with:

I would be willing to wager that if an average citizen from Athens of 1000 BC were to appear suddenly among us, he or she would be among the brightest and most intellectually alive of our colleagues and companions. We would be surprised by our time-visitor’s memory, broad range of ideas and clear-sighted view of important issues. I would also guess that he or she would be among the most emotionally stable of our friends and colleagues. I do not mean to imply something special about this time in history or the location, but would also make this wager for the ancient inhabitants of Africa, Asia, India or the Americas of perhaps 2,000 to 6,000 years ago. I mean to say simply that we Homo sapiens may have changed as a species in the past several thousand years and will use 3000 years to emphasize the potential rapidity of change and to provide a basis for calculations, although dates between 2,000 and 6,000 years ago might suffice equally well. The argument that I will make is that new developments in genetics, anthropology and neurobiology make a clear prediction about our historical past as a species and our possible intellectual fate. The message is simple: our intellectual and emotional abilities are genetically surprising fragile.

link: http://bmi205.stanford.edu/_media/crabtree-2.pdf

With no external pressure for adaptation, evolution works backwards if there is not internal drive to move forward. If one adds to that nutritional, chemical, emotional and intellectual distresses of all sorts, the picture is not very pretty.

 

[kenlee]

I would be willing to wager that if an average citizen from Athens of 1000 BC were to appear suddenly among us, he or she would be among the brightest and most intellectually alive of our colleagues and companions. We would be surprised by our time-visitor’s memory, broad range of ideas and clear-sighted view of important issues. I would also guess that he or she would be among the most emotionally stable of our friends and colleagues. I do not mean to imply something special about this time in history or the location, but would also make this wager for the ancient inhabitants of Africa, Asia, India or the Americas of perhaps 2,000 to 6,000 years ago. I mean to say simply that we Homo sapiens may have changed as a species in the past several thousand years and will use 3000 years to emphasize the potential rapidity of change and to provide a basis for calculations, although dates between 2,000 and 6,000 years ago might suffice equally well. The argument that I will make is that new developments in genetics, anthropology and neurobiology make a clear prediction about our historical past as a species and our possible intellectual fate. The message is simple: our intellectual and emotional abilities are genetically surprising fragile.

This is interesting as I do notice that with the use of all this electronic gadgetry peoples attention span continues to diminish rapidly from endless distractions which puts their attention in a class closer to an animal where there is perception but no conceptualization. Sometimes I think that as the population grows there is more quantity of attention among the masses, but correspondingly, less quality of attention available to the individual. Also I wonder how this affects the way people (generally speaking) experience the present moment? People seem to experience the moment in a very, very limited way now.

If one wants to create a future of any kind then their present moment must expand (like it might have been with people in the past). For example if someone wants to start a business their present moment must incorporate within it future expectations, knowledge of the past, knowledge of business, discipline, Will, and so on in order to accomplish this. In this case it's mostly functional and relating to business but still, their present moment would have to expand beyond the average. I wonder if present moments can even be expanded on a scale of centuries or even millennia?

 

[bjorb]

[quote author= Win52]Right now, my Son is on a flat Earth kick.[/quote]

That's not good to hear! I don't know, but how about buying a ticket for him to sit in a jetfighter or hot-air balloon that touches stratosphere heights, those tours exist and from that height he can witness and see for himself that the Earth is round. I mean, it may cost a dime, but it sure beats a million pointless discussions. OSIT.

 

[Laura]

[quote author= Win52]Right now, my Son is on a flat Earth kick.

That's not good to hear! I don't know, but how about buying a ticket for him to sit in a jetfighter or hot-air balloon that touches stratosphere heights, those tours exist and from that height he can witness and see for himself that the Earth is round. I mean, it may cost a dime, but it sure beats a million pointless discussions. OSIT.
[/quote]

Might be helpful for anyone on such a kick to take flying lessons - especially from a school that teaches you to plot courses and navigate by simple instruments for the basics, before you use instrument flying. You really learn how you have to accommodate curvature, drift, etc.

 

[clerck de bonk]

[quote author= Win52]Right now, my Son is on a flat Earth kick.

That's not good to hear! I don't know, but how about buying a ticket for him to sit in a jetfighter or hot-air balloon that touches stratosphere heights, those tours exist and from that height he can witness and see for himself that the Earth is round. I mean, it may cost a dime, but it sure beats a million pointless discussions. OSIT.

Might be helpful for anyone on such a kick to take flying lessons - especially from a school that teaches you to plot courses and navigate by simple instruments for the basics, before you use instrument flying. You really learn how you have to accommodate curvature, drift, etc.
[/quote]
There's a cheaper way. Take him to the sea shore (vacation at same time!) near a port. Bring a pair of strong binoculars. Have him look at the traffic (oncoming or leaving) just at the horizon, or slightly behind it (works better if you are in an elevated position). Have him describe what he sees, in what angle are the vessels, do they seem to go "uphill" (when approaching)?

 

[Cosmos]

[quote author= Win52]Right now, my Son is on a flat Earth kick.

That's not good to hear! I don't know, but how about buying a ticket for him to sit in a jetfighter or hot-air balloon that touches stratosphere heights, those tours exist and from that height he can witness and see for himself that the Earth is round. I mean, it may cost a dime, but it sure beats a million pointless discussions. OSIT.

Might be helpful for anyone on such a kick to take flying lessons - especially from a school that teaches you to plot courses and navigate by simple instruments for the basics, before you use instrument flying. You really learn how you have to accommodate curvature, drift, etc.

There's a cheaper way. Take him to the sea shore (vacation at same time!) near a port. Bring a pair of strong binoculars. Have him look at the traffic (oncoming or leaving) just at the horizon, or slightly behind it (works better if you are in an elevated position). Have him describe what he sees, in what angle are the vessels, do they seem to go "uphill" (when approaching)?
[/quote]

Unfortunately they already have some nutty theories going on, on how this can be explained away, to fit the flat earth. I think flying is probably the best way, if that doesn't help, nothing will. Or so it seems.

 

[clerck de bonk]

If that's the case Pashalis then a space trip is the only solution...

 

[mkrnhr]

Unfortunately they already have some nutty theories going on, on how this can be explained away, to fit the flat earth. I think flying is probably the best way, if that doesn't help, nothing will. Or so it seems.

Or giving a phone call to people living at different longitudes and asking for the position of the Sun, stars, moon, whatever applies. It requires that people look up into the sky and that they have friends, which is rare.

 

[bjorb]

Did any of those people who suffer from Flat Earth Syndrome ever tried to venture to the end of the world? It sounds like a cool but utterly pointless adventure.

If that's the case Pashalis then a space trip is the only solution...

Yep, if you are diagnosed with Flat Earth Syndrome, you get blasted into space. Tax money spend at it's finest.


Btw, what is the point of telling the "big lie' that the Earth is round and not flat. What's the reason behind it? Why the big conspiracy, what's the big gain the Elites get out of this? I never understood that, that said, I never really delved into it. Time can be spend in better ways.

 

[Janek]

For me personally, one of the best proof, that Earth is round and that don't requires any too long journey or much expenditure is Foucault Pendulum. It not only proves Earth's rotational movement, but it's rotation frequency depends on longitude that pendulum is located at. It would be veery hard to explain it with flat earth model.

Btw, what is the point of telling the "big lie' that the Earth is round and not flat. What's the reason behind it? Why the big conspiracy, what's the big gain the Elites get out of this? I never understood that, that said, I never really delved into it. Time can be spend in better ways.

That's good question. With so many lies in the air told by media, government etc. some basic facts for some people became lies as well I guess.

 

[Divide by Zero]

There is definitively a deterioration of cognitive abilities through time, which seems to be accelerating recently. If certain abilities are not used, they disappear.
For example there is this study done in Iceland:

<SNIP>

With no external pressure for adaptation, evolution works backwards if there is not internal drive to move forward. If one adds to that nutritional, chemical, emotional and intellectual distresses of all sorts, the picture is not very pretty.

I see this all the time at work. We have a lot of engineers with licenses and master's or PHD who have no common sense of the whole process. They can visualize a very narrow specific part of the mechanism or electrical setup, but when you ask them about how it interacts with the rest- they either freeze or act like there is no interaction between the parts.


Since we work with our hands, but are also able to read, we can find out the theory behind specific mechanic or electrical systems. But that's the problem with an education system that teaches you to memorize and listen to others (authority) without hands on play time. Children today play video games instead of with building blocks, legos, or dirt outside! Music and TV is constantly on, so they don't get to clear their mind and meditate.


There are geniuses who were magical in their specific abilities, like Tesla who was in love with a pigeon and supposedly wasn't too social. Really odd, like the left and right hemispheres not communicating leads to amazing results but a disconnect from reality!


Oh and I was reminded about a Flat Earther debate on Facebook which I mentioned a little at a meetup. One guy was saying how it's impossible to move in space because on earth you push off the ground, water, or air. When I explained the simple idea of propulsion in newton's law of opposite and equal reaction (of momentum of the particles exhausted by burning them, etc), it went over his head. I even said you can test it out on a skateboard, kick your leg in one direction and you will move the opposite way! But again, it was over his head, like there's no idea of physical matter, mass, and space. You could say these people are severely stunted in their physical/moving centers... or maybe not, just like the split brain experiments, their emotional non-linear brain cannot connect with the linear logical brain so reality isn't matching their inner map of reality. Reminds me of the guy who kept thinking his mother was an impostor, no matter what she did, yet on the phone he knew it was her. ODD INSANITY!

Edit: It gave me an insight into these global warming scientists who have such a strong belief that overrides their ability to see reality. Their belief in global warming "MUST BE TRUE" makes them ok with manipulated data and such. The only time I remember manipulating data was in chemistry or physics lab where the equipment was so bad to get consistent results, so we fudged some numbers to get a good grade. One of my physics teachers couldn't understand that bad inaccurate measuring instruments would give us not consistent results. Another example of disconnected from reality... If we apply that to finance, it explains more mayhem, this idea of infinite exponential growth....

 

[flashgordonv]

Oh and I was reminded about a Flat Earther debate on Facebook which I mentioned a little at a meetup. One guy was saying how it's impossible to move in space because on earth you push off the ground, water, or air. When I explained the simple idea of propulsion in newton's law of opposite and equal reaction (of momentum of the particles exhausted by burning them, etc), it went over his head. I even said you can test it out on a skateboard, kick your leg in one direction and you will move the opposite way! But again, it was over his head, like there's no idea of physical matter, mass, and space. You could say these people are severely stunted in their physical/moving centers... or maybe not, just like the split brain experiments, their emotional non-linear brain cannot connect with the linear logical brain so reality isn't matching their inner map of reality. Reminds me of the guy who kept thinking his mother was an impostor, no matter what she did, yet on the phone he knew it was her. ODD INSANITY!

Edit: It gave me an insight into these global warming scientists who have such a strong belief that overrides their ability to see reality. Their belief in global warming "MUST BE TRUE" makes them ok with manipulated data and such. The only time I remember manipulating data was in chemistry or physics lab where the equipment was so bad to get consistent results, so we fudged some numbers to get a good grade. One of my physics teachers couldn't understand that bad inaccurate measuring instruments would give us not consistent results. Another example of disconnected from reality... If we apply that to finance, it explains more mayhem, this idea of infinite exponential growth....

There is just such a debate raging on one of my Facebook posts at the moment. A gentleman named Steve McFarland, who I think might frequent this forum, responded to the recent SOTT article about celebs embracing the FE concept

https://www.sott.net/article/345770-Yet-more-celebrities-have-admitted-that-they-believe-the-Earth-is-actually-flat

I responded to his post and asked him to specifically respond and explain his theory of the cosmos in the light of his FE belief. All I got back was that it is the freemasons doing it and then a bunch of word salad and vague references to 4D as what is outside the earth dome and maybe divine cosmic mind. There is a debate about propulsion raging as a side note as well. Very strange. Steve claims to be open minded but his position is that everybody else (who doesn't believe in FE) is close minded. The weird thing is that because he believes in FE, he has no hypothesis to make sense of anything else in the cosmos.