Was Julius Caesar the real Jesus Christ?

In another thread, recently, I spoke about our visit to Croatia and a lunch we had with Croatian members of the forum and FOTCM. At that meeting, I discussed some ideas I'd been having that I intended to include in the next volume of Secret History, to wit, the growing conviction I felt that Julius Caesar was the figure around whom the Jesus legend was wrapped.

I had come to this idea simply by reading numerous perspectives on the history of Caesar. I didn't start out thinking it, it just emerged of its own by the assembling of the data. I was naturally a bit nonplussed by this because it does sound sort of crazy, right?

Well, I've discovered that I am not the only one who has come to this idea. In a way, that's a bit of a disappointment because I was going to assemble the proofs and make the case. In another way, it is reassuring that I'm not the only one who has seen the parallels.

So, you don't have to wait for my book to explore this idea. Have a look:

From a reviewer:

This part is important because it was what affected me: "a huge cluster of historical, archeological, numismatic, cultural, theological and linguistic facts and accords..."

From a reviewer who more or less states some of the ideas I've had about this over the past months:

He then goes on to partly dismiss it suggesting there is way more to wade through. He's right, of course, and I've been doing that with the result that the conviction is only getting stronger.

At least now, I'll be able to cite others in support of the idea.

I will add one note: after doing a ton of reading, I think that it is safe to say that Julius Caesar was THE most extraordinary man in our whole history, bar none.
Thank you for this. Someone mentioned to me that the initials J.C. Were also shared by Julius Caeser. I didn’t think much of it, but it persisted as a thought and after a bit of digging I came upon Carotta. I was—and remain—in awe of his thesis. I too am convinced. Yours were the first thoughts I came across that intelligently expanded upon the idea.
I’ve been devouring everything I can find pertaining to Caeser since. I quite agree with you as to this extraordinary man. Just amazed, humbled and grateful to have a moment in time to grasp this insight.


The documentary says that Carotta came to his ideas in 1988. We are gonna download it and watch it on the big TV.

Geeze, I feel like a kid in a candy store! An answer of sorts, finally!

And yes, ya'll read Caesar's writings, read books about Caesar, lots of them, because each one adds another piece to the puzzle. But be sure to read Fustel's "The Ancient City" first or you won't understand Caesar and his vision.
Ha! I just received a copy about 3 weeks ago. Delighted to have found this forum and your thoughts. Will do!
Rusty, you may, also, want to get a copy of From Paul to Mark: Paleochristianity that was written by Laura after a whole ton of research, which shows how Jesus was Julius. It's quite interesting and fascinating all of the info she uncovered about so much of this history because she did, actually, compare what was going on at the time compared to what others have written.
Thank you, Nienna. I’ve added it to my list :)
Well, that is a very interesting idea and I wonder if more data could be found to support it?

I'm pretty sure that Gregory of Tours' history was a big fraud for a lot of reasons, but maybe he let something slip through in his text accidentally? A close reading of that in the original language might be worthwhile. I can only read the English translation.

In an indirect way, while doing research on another subject, I discovered a mysterious monument known as "the Pile of Five Mars" located in France, in the department of Indre-et-Loire, 25 kilometers from the city of Tours. It is a well-preserved brick tower, 30 meters high. It is therefore located near the city of Tours and its existence seems to provide further evidence of an important cult dedicated to Julius Caesar in this region which will later become the cult of Saint Martin with his sacred cloak which is closely linked to the foundations of the French monarchy (see my previous post).

The origin of this monolith has produced various theories, but overall historians agree that it was a mausoleum built in Roman times in honor of a high-ranking military man who was particularly venerated locally. The funerary function of the monument is corroborated by other characteristic Gallo-Roman monuments called "pile", i.e. a high tower, square or rectangular, which served as a cenotaph (as for example the Tower of Pirelonge). Note the following but not unimportant detail: historians point out that many of these towers seem to have been destroyed by Saint Martin of Tours during the Christianization of Gaul. I will come back to this.

So we have near Tours, in this city where an important pilgrimage took place in honor of this Saint during the Middle Ages, a funerary monument dedicated to an important character. Who was this character? Historians are divided on this question. The most accepted hypothesis is that this tower was built in memory of Quintus Marcus, a Roman consul, who fought alongside Caesar and died with his 5 sons during a battle near the Loire. Historians have gone astray because they have focused their attention on the modern version of the toponym.

It seems much more likely that "Cinq Mars" is a cacography of "Saint Mars". As a proof, the first historically indisputable reference that explicitly mentions this monument comes from Rabelais who writes "sainct Mars". Rabelais refers to the gigantism of this monument in an analogical way to evoke the Great Celtic Mare, mounted by the giant Gargantua. However, he adds a few lines later: "For she was as big as six oriflans [elephants in old French], and had her feet split into fingers, like Julius Caesar's horse". Rabelais is reputed to be a knowledgeable initiate and he skillfully practices the language of birds, as Fulcanelli expresses it without detours. One may therefore wonder if he did not slip in a precious clue by linking this place to "Julius Caesar's horse".

The second direct historical reference comes from Canon Bailly who attributes the construction of this monument to Julius Caesar in 1589. Another author in 1976 links the place to Saint Médard but he specifies, by referring to an old charter of the abbey of Saint-Julien-de-Tours (note the name of the abbey) dated 915, that there was near this tower a Chapel dedicated to Julius Caesar. Probably the original place where the sacred relic of Saint Martin, the illustrious cloak, was kept, and perhaps but it is hypothetical the paludamentum of Julius Caesar venerated by the Gallo-Romans. We can add in the memory of the local toponymy "Caesar Island" which would be the vague memory of a bridge facing this tower.

Obviously, we must be honest and add that other various hypotheses were put forward by various authors after the Renaissance, including those already mentioned. However, the oldest historical references associate Julius Caesar with this place. On the other hand, historians have made absolutely no connection with the cult of Saint Martin, although it is so obvious; our 500 years too long in the chronology do not facilitate this connection.
Everything leads me to believe that there was in this French region a cult dedicated to Julius Caesar which was very implanted and that in spite of all the efforts of dissimulation some traces persist.

Then we have the propagation of the cult of Saint Martin, which corresponds to the area of influence of the Carolingian empire. And it is here that we find Gregory of Tours, our famous forger, to whom we owe the first historical references, outside of hagiography, of the important cult dedicated to this saint in Gaul. Among the hypotheses surrounding the origins of this monument, some authors make the hypothesis that it was a milestone and materialized the limit between the Frankish and Visigothic territories. The evidence shows that this was obviously not its primary function. But this idea is interesting if we make the link between Saint Martin, patron saint of the Merovingians and then of the Carolingians, i.e. the territories of Northern Gaul which are under the authority of the Franks (Saint Martin is originally from Pannonia, which makes the link with the origins of the Sicambrian Franks) and the Visigothic kingdom which was located between the Loire and the Pyrenees, in other words under the geographical limit of Tours.

This could explain the persistence of the cult of Julius Caesar among the Cathars, descendants of the Visigoths, because one can suppose that this memory persisted discreetly in this region less marked by the political program of Christianization operated in the north under the Carolingians. This geographical division is very deep and is still palpable in certain respects within the French territory, characterized in the past between those who spoke the "langue d'oil" and those who spoke the "langue d'oc". This territorial division corresponds to this Francs / Visigoths delimitation on a virtual line near Tours. I cannot dwell on this, but there are deep historical and politico-religious implications here, and this is probably not unrelated to the secret of Rennes-le-Château, and the contents of the parchments discovered by Abbé Saunière. I even wonder if the image of the "cloak cut in two" is not a characteristic encoding of the monks to translate discreetly, under the effects of a parable, a France "cut in two".

Short break :-)
So we have this character, Saint Martin, whose myth and local evidence below refer us to Julius Caesar, who would have implanted monasticism in Gaul and who would have been the initial driving force behind the Christianization of the Gauls. And we have the diffusion of his cult in the territories submitted to the authority of the Carolingians.

When one observes the development of Christianity carefully, one has the feeling that there were two parallel but fundamentally different developments between the West and the East, that is to say between medieval Europe and the Byzantine Empire. This brings us back to the religious conflict between Arian and Nicene Christians, which is much more enigmatic than historians think. Officially, Arian Christians are the followers of the doctrine of Arius, but curiously enough, the Arian religion is the prerogative of the Barbarian peoples in Europe: Goths, Vandals, Burgundians, Lombards and especially the Franks before the conversion of Clovis! Officially, the homophony between "Arian Christians" and Aryans is a pure coincidence. Unfortunately, we are all too familiar with this "doctrine" of coincidence, which lazily allows us not to look anomalies in the face. At first I thought that the theologian Arius was a late fiction to cover up this problem, but I was forced to revise my copy because there is too much historical evidence that attests to his existence and especially to his ideas that are tearing Christian communities apart.

First of all, the main point of division is that the Arian Christians fundamentally refute the divine character of Jesus, all this wrapped up in a complex theology typical of the unbearable religious controversies that took place in the Byzantine Roman world. Immediately one thinks that the "Arian Christians" had a different perception of the "Byzantine Jesus," and that there was, for them, a real historical figure who had nothing to do with the Jesus of Nazareth. I obviously made the connection with Laura's work on paleo-Christianity and the opposition between Pauline Christianity and its opponents, and that unlocked a lot of problems for me. Now, let's take the problem in reverse, with a much more realistic reflection. What if Arius was, for example, a kind of pseudonym, referring to the "Arian ideas", in other words the ideas spread among the barbarian "Aryan" peoples? Since most Arian Christians represent precisely the religion adopted by the barbarian peoples displaced in Europe, and since Arianism quickly disappeared in the East with the Council of Nicaea and survived for a long time in Europe among these Germanic peoples, we have the right to wonder if the original anchor point of these ideas was not Western Europe, and even more precisely Gaul?

The second enigma, which does not bother historians more than that, is that there is an incomprehensible chronological gap between the diffusion of Arius' ideas in Alexandria, his rather rapid dissolution in the East, and the survival of his ideas among the barbarian peoples: the Visigoths of Aquitaine and Hispania and the kingdom of the Burgundians remained Arians until the end of the sixth century, and the Lombards until the middle of the seventh. This is the Gordian knot of our problematic which can only be solved within the framework of our erroneous chronology and the recentist theory.

Until now, I did not understand the link that Laura had proposed in a session between Santiago de Compostela and Paul. The shell of Venus omnipresent in medieval architecture and Julius Caesar. I also perceived the connection but without discerning the threads of the canvas. Thanks to Laura's latest work, I am beginning to see the end of the tunnel. It turns out that there is a very clear overlap between the regions marked by the spread of Paul's ideas, and his itinerary, and the later appearances of the "politically dissident" Gnostic Christian movements, the Cathars, the Bogomils, the Paulicians (whose name is sufficiently evocative) ... All these peoples seem to be the repositories of Paul's original ideas, as are our barbarian "Aryan" peoples. This is why there is a relative continuity between the original ideas of Paul and those of the later Gnostic groups. Not surprisingly, it is in the ancient kingdom of the Visigoths that we find traces of the passage of St. James of Compostela, and not surprisingly, it is under Charlemagne, thus the Carolingians, that the Christianized legend of St. James of Compostela was invented.
After the city of Tours, think also of the very famous Parisian Montmartre. To explain the toponymy and the history of this place, two explanations are confronted: the "mount of the Martyrs" and the "mount of Mars". But these two hypotheses could be valid and complement each other. A place of martyrs recorded in the popular memory in connection with a cult to Saint Mars / Saint Martin / Julius Caesar.

There is a whole historical truth to be revealed behind all the Christian martyrs which testify to a very vivid popular trauma. An obvious violent political-religious conflict. Historians usually put these hagiographic accounts in a drawer because medieval stories do not fit easily into the official historical context. We now have a new perspective to study this problem.

Thus, we would have a program of Christianization carried out under the Carolingians, of which Gregory of Tours would be one of the executors, which strives to replace the Gallo-Roman cult of Julius Caesar, but also all the other pagan cults that coexisted, by the state religion reworked under the authority of Constantine and continued by his sons and other successors.

One might object that this is inconsistent since several centuries pass between the time of the Constantinians and the time of the Merovingians and then the Carolingians. I will not dwell on this here because it is a subject that is dealt with elsewhere but after a long work I am convinced that the period that is awkwardly called Late Antiquity (Byzantine narratives / oriental point of view) is concomitant with the beginning of the Middle Ages (European point of view / falsification with a History rewritten from scratch). However, on condition that other problems are solved and, above all, that the " sequencing" is well defined.

I'm only going to offer a few ideas without dwelling on them because the Jesus/Julius Caesar problem is intimately linked to the Carolingians and you can't get past that problem without reconstructing the chronology.

Have you ever wondered why the Carolingians claimed to be Roman descendants? Officially, it is for political reasons, but it is surprising when one knows the importance given to lineage among these Germanic peoples. Fustel de Coulanges tackled this problem in a thesis. I think that his starting point is correct but that his conclusions are not satisfactory because his analysis is based on fraudulent texts produced by the Carolingians themselves to hide the truth of their origins. It seems that we are at the heart of a secret jealously guarded by a few groups and that is linked to the Merovingian lineage.

I will develop my conclusions in the post dedicated to this subject. But when you compare the history of the Franks of Gregory of Tours and the "post-Constantinian" historical sequence, the connections are obvious. This also helps to solve the riddle in statues of Constantine in medieval Romanesque art. Compare the betrayals and murders among Constantine's sons and all those stories Gregory tells about the Merovingians. There is an obvious transposition.

It seems that the Carolingians rewrote their own history and unscrewed the chronology by desynchronizing European and Byzantine history. Hence this chaos to find one's way around. This became even more obvious when I recently discovered Velikovsky's "The Disorder of the Centuries" where he exposes a desynchronization between the history of Israel and the history of Egypt. It makes one think of a "modus operandi".

In a few words, I would add that we know that the Franks enjoyed a privileged status among the federated peoples and that there is something deeper to understand about Merovingian blood and the baptismal conversion of Clovis and thus his adherence to the Nicene creed in opposition to that of the Arians.

The relic of St. Martin must have been so sacred to the Gallo-Roman people and elites that the Franks/Romans must have cleverly modified the original meaning of this object in the post-Constantinian context of Nicene Christianity while absorbing it to unite the Gallic people. There is so little information about the origin of this relic, which is a founding symbol of the French monarchy, that there seems to be a state secret surrounding this object and all the real historical context surrounding it.

hoping to have brought my modest contribution to this vast construction site which aims at redefining the true bases of our Western civilization. I will stop here for today.

Kind regards.
It seems that the Carolingians rewrote their own history and unscrewed the chronology by desynchronizing European and Byzantine history.

While reading you last posts, popped into this old session thread (it's a good refresher), and yes, the Carolingians were doing a whole lot of revising. And the whole thing is weaved with the legendary Charlemagne and the gang.

What a tangle.

Perceval) The initial development of Christianity, was it done or made in its initial form - its first development, let's say after Caesar - was that in a response to the deification of Caesar by the people, and his values?

A: Yes.

Q: (Chu) If it was glorified, then...

(Perceval) So that was the start of it.

A: Carotta is very close in his analysis of how language issues affected the transmission and distortions. If there are any villains it would be the Flavians and the Carolingians.

Q: (Pierre) So Carotta was right. The Flavians creating the Christian myth... And then the Carolingians after the collapse of the empire recreating the 2.0 version of Christianity.

(Perceval) Is the time scale that we have for the kind of Dark Ages, fall of Rome, is that more or less correct...?

(L) What do you mean? You mean is our time line...

(Perceval) In terms of our timeline, from the fall of Rome back to Caesar's death... from the cosmic disaster, those 500 years or whatever it is...

A: There were years added so often that it will take some hard work to sort it out!

Q: (L) Am I right in my idea that we can date the segments of the timeline by Halley's Comet? Is Halley's Comet regular enough back into those times that it can be relied on?

A: Yes

Q: (L) So, when they have Halley's Comet coming at these vastly expanded periods, then those are the periods where years have been added?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) And in some cases they're added, and in some cases they're subtracted. It's very strange. Like they can add 10, and then subtract 5. Overall there's a definite, I think that... I think that enough has been added that we're off by 200 or...

(Pierre) Maybe you can ask this question. Caesar was born roughly 2,114 years ago according to our official calendars. In reality, how many years ago was Caesar born?

A: 1635. {Difference of 479 years}

Q: [General oo-ing and ah-ing] (Perceval) The whole thing went so horribly wrong, we were thinking how did it last another 400 or 500 years?

(L) It didn't.

(Perceval) Yeah, it didn't. It lasted maybe 100.

(Pierre) Or, there was a collapse in 400 or 500 AD, and most of the added chunks are between 400-500 AD, and 1000 AD, as Fomenko suggests.

A: Check the artifacts. In some cases there were multiple "emperors" at the same time rather than sequential.

From January 2022
Just found out about this new book on Caesar:

From the description, it sounds quite interesting:

Has anyone commented on this? Yes, sounds interesting.
'John Carter' published an article about Julius Caesar; :thup:

The Gospel of Mark Antony – 1 – The Jesus Question - Is Caesar’s Ghost Haunting Christianity?

An AI generated image of Julius Caesar, a composite based on several busts, shown in the article.

Might be this guy.

Actually it's this guy: Postcards From Barsoom

He's done an interview with the MindMatters guys. Fascinating, funny guy who started out as an astronomer.

Here another article. If he isn't a lurking member, he's definitely on the same track

[edit: added link]
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Is this question of who really occupied the shoes of the so-called Jesus the most salient?

Is not the teaching, the lessons and the message more important to suss out? What IS the living water? If Christ is the vine and we are the branches, then how do we become more cognizant of that living presence in the current moment? What is meant by the way to salvation? (and a thousand other questions about what really is Christianity)

Our lives and souls as humans are hanging in some kind of balance.

How can the real genuine teaching be accessed and absorbed and acted upon in the now?

And not so much, "who was the real teacher?"

My guess is that even the teacher, be it Caesar or Salad, would agree.
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