Traits of Confident People

Can Won

Padawan Learner
This topic highlights how important it is to have people around you who can be honest if the question "Can you point out anything in particular with my personality that needs to be worked on?" is asked.
It's a simple question, yet experience has shown when bringing it up that it's a topic that a lot of people would simply rather steer well away from. :shock:
One response I've been given is "why would you want to know that?"!

If you are at a point in life where self observation is a key part of your daily practice then surely you should be able to notice when such a moment arises (or maybe not :P) And so on reflection, would you have done things differently? and if so, why? What was the influence of your decision? and how can I work on it? Work, work, work!
It may have been a simple gesture of sorts, but continuing to use these as reference points not to make the same "mistakes" is akin to surrounding yourself with alarm clocks. Your thoughts are clear from the mundane and therefore you may even "hear" the alarm before it goes off :D

Having someone at hand who can address such circumstances with you, may simply open a door that you never knew existed. People such as this aren't particularly common nowadays, therefore excluding yourself from such circles may in fact be hindering your development.

Being brutally honest with yourself is hard at times, but surely this is all part of the work? Facing up to the reality of the situation, there is always work to do!

So what harm can be done by doing these forms of questionnaire?
They encompass aspects of self development that can slip by the radar from time to time...
 

Mikkael

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
Divide By Zero said:
That being said, a few things seem contradictory in some cases.

I agree to not avoid conflict, as we learned in Gabor Mate's book and others. Without standing up for an idea, even if it's wrong- you won't be able to test that idea in the "real world".

But that involves judgement. Sometimes a conflict arises based on what you see in a co worker or family member for example. If you are all positive about everyone, how could you have a conflict? Maybe I mixed up what he means by judgement. To me it is being honest, that yes, we all have an "estimation" of others based on what they do and how they interact with us.

Hi,

with all respect I see there is no contradiction. If one is positive and aware of one's own judgments then one usually leave others to be what they are.

Thus conflict for such a man comes from the others as opposite from the self. When those others with their subjective/objective judgments attack one must face the attack at once. It is necessary however to slow down in order to assess situation to say something like "Wait a moment" so one can gain time to see what is in that attack. One must see what is the judgment of other and truthfully respond to anything which is the point of conflict. So if the other is saying the truth himself one must then admit its error and that will defuse the attack quickly. If the attack comes as subjective judgment not rooted in reality then one must give what is being asked: the truth.

If not then one is psychically entangled in situation and likely his own subjective judgments. Our problem usually is that we start to act too quickly/automatic response reflex and inflamed by ego, and surprised because not paying attention to signals and lost in internal monologues acting in confusion and with following anger. After my own painful realization of avoiding such confrontations and seeing where I fail I see as the best approach what I write above. By being calm, and staying calm one can see great many things.

Question then arise how one can stay calm in the midst of storm. Answer is quite simple yet at the same time difficult.

One must be awake.
 

genero81

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sedenion:
Other ideas, ok... but YOUR ideas, not the ideas of any books authors, or studies.. you see what i mean ? I love to discovers ideas of other people, how they see things. But what happen if everybody tell me: "go read this book !" ? So everybody have the same idea taken from this book ?! very disapointing for me...

All ideas come from somewhere; theirs, yours... none of them original. Acquiring information from the minds of others through books, articles, etc. increases the pool of ideas which gives a much larger context from which to draw meaning from one's personal experiences. I like the explanation given in 'Meetings with Remarkable Men.' Understanding is the result of intensified learning combined with personal experience. This is how one acquires Knowledge. One would be wise to gather as much accurate information as possible. And of course determining what is accurate and what is not is a big part of the learning process. Having a network of dedicated individuals to that very task is invaluable. Maybe one day you will come to see and appreciate how lucky you are to have found this group. Or perhaps you will continue to defend your position with your narrative.
 
genero81 said:
Maybe one day you will come to see and appreciate how lucky you are to have found this group. Or perhaps you will continue to defend your position with your narrative.

Question is: who defends its positions, me, or some members of this forum ? i don't arrived here saying "Hey oyah people, i have the holy knowledge, i will tell you the new gospel !!". However, the (almost) first interaction i had here, is with people (moderator) that urge me to "read this", "go understand the truth here", "quick, read that ! this is unvaluable !"... that was so unapropriate for me that i beleived that was an automatic message ! "what is this bunch of advertising, am i in a store ?!"... To be clear, this made me laugh a lot, and if i were not a little curious and patient, i probably would have closed the case by "bunch of sectarian thick headed booksellers", letting this forum enjoying its "equilbrium"... I don't even critized the "so valuable books", i only said "no thanks", but what a drama ! "why you don't want ? what is your problem ? are you nuts ?"... Now, one thing: Since one mounth, all my posts are blocked until moderation approval... who, here, is in defensive mode, who fears who and what ?
 

genero81

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Originally I wrote: "defend your laziness with your narrative" but decided "your position" would be more considerate.
sedenion said:
genero81 said:
Maybe one day you will come to see and appreciate how lucky you are to have found this group. Or perhaps you will continue to defend your position with your narrative.

Question is: who defends its positions, me, or some members of this forum ? i don't arrived here saying "Hey oyah people, i have the holy knowledge, i will tell you the new gospel !!". However, the (almost) first interaction i had here, is with people (moderator) that urge me to "read this", "go understand the truth here", "quick, read that ! this is unvaluable !"... that was so unapropriate for me that i beleived that was an automatic message ! "what is this bunch of advertising, am i in a store ?!"... To be clear, this made me laugh a lot, and if i were not a little curious and patient, i probably would have closed the case by "bunch of sectarian thick headed booksellers", letting this forum enjoying its "equilbrium"... I don't even critized the "so valuable books", i only said "no thanks", but what a drama ! "why you don't want ? what is your problem ? are you nuts ?"... Now, one thing: Since one mounth, all my posts are blocked until moderation approval... who, here, is in defensive mode, who fears who and what ?
 
genero81 said:
Originally I wrote: "defend your laziness with your narrative" but decided "your position" would be more considerate.

Oh, you were talking about that... my laziness is my problem... "me" is my problem... if i want to fall from an airplane without parachute, this is ? yes ! my problem, not yours... pretty simple. Take care of you, i will care of me.
 

Joe

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sedenion said:
Question is: who defends its positions, me, or some members of this forum ? i don't arrived here saying "Hey oyah people, i have the holy knowledge, i will tell you the new gospel !!". However, the (almost) first interaction i had here, is with people (moderator) that urge me to "read this", "go understand the truth here", "quick, read that ! this is unvaluable !"... that was so unapropriate for me that i beleived that was an automatic message ! "what is this bunch of advertising, am i in a store ?!"... To be clear, this made me laugh a lot, and if i were not a little curious and patient, i probably would have closed the case by "bunch of sectarian thick headed booksellers", letting this forum enjoying its "equilbrium"... I don't even critized the "so valuable books", i only said "no thanks", but what a drama ! "why you don't want ? what is your problem ? are you nuts ?"... Now, one thing: Since one mounth, all my posts are blocked until moderation approval... who, here, is in defensive mode, who fears who and what ?

The reason certain reading is suggested is so that people can be on the same page with a lot of references that are made here. It's not mandatory, but "suggested". It's like suggesting to someone who joins a chess club to learn the basics of chess. Seems like a reasonable suggestion. But as I said, it is not mandatory. Members are free to "play chess" without knowing the rules, although that can be become a little tiring for others who do know.

Certain members' posts are moderated for good reasons. It's not about fear, it's about moderators being responsible moderators. Many other forums have similar procedures, again for good reasons.

This might be an opportunity to consider the view of you provided by someone else, and see how it compares to your own view of yourself.

Here's the view, based on some evidence: since you've mentioned a few times that your posts are being moderated, maybe you have a little self-importance going on.
 

Mikkael

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
genero81 said:
All ideas come from somewhere; theirs, yours... none of them original.
This is very interesting what you speak about. But one thing I see is wrong or I don't understand really what you mean by "none of them original". Certainly when we hear something and we resonate with it we can reflect on it and then we share it. Information received is enriched through reflection and thinking by individual entity and is a new point of origin. What do you think?

genero81 said:
Acquiring information from the minds of others through books, articles, etc. increases the pool of ideas which gives a much larger context from which to draw meaning from one's personal experiences. I like the explanation given in 'Meetings with Remarkable Men.' Understanding is the result of intensified learning combined with personal experience. This is how one acquires Knowledge. One would be wise to gather as much accurate information as possible. And of course determining what is accurate and what is not is a big part of the learning process. Having a network of dedicated individuals to that very task is invaluable. Maybe one day you will come to see and appreciate how lucky you are to have found this group.

You speaking about what I realized today so thank you very much! I realized/become aware that choosing participate in this network is such a good fortune. Now I understand why Cassiopaeans hammered this from beginning. NETWORK!!! We are receiving higher density information and organizing ourselves to STO principles where everyone is free to input and thus reflect and input more. There comes to mind a words of Gurdijeff : "within group what gains one gains all" freely paraphrasing. Did he said that what loses one loses all too? I'm not sure now, maybe you know, and in that case I don't understand what he meant by that.

I'm so glad to meet you anyway
 

Laura

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sedenion said:
genero81 said:
Maybe one day you will come to see and appreciate how lucky you are to have found this group. Or perhaps you will continue to defend your position with your narrative.

Question is: who defends its positions, me, or some members of this forum ? i don't arrived here saying "Hey oyah people, i have the holy knowledge, i will tell you the new gospel !!". However, the (almost) first interaction i had here, is with people (moderator) that urge me to "read this", "go understand the truth here", "quick, read that ! this is unvaluable !"... that was so unapropriate for me that i beleived that was an automatic message ! "what is this bunch of advertising, am i in a store ?!"... To be clear, this made me laugh a lot, and if i were not a little curious and patient, i probably would have closed the case by "bunch of sectarian thick headed booksellers", letting this forum enjoying its "equilbrium"... I don't even critized the "so valuable books", i only said "no thanks", but what a drama ! "why you don't want ? what is your problem ? are you nuts ?"... Now, one thing: Since one mounth, all my posts are blocked until moderation approval... who, here, is in defensive mode, who fears who and what ?

The point is, this forum exists for a particular purpose and if you are not on the same page with other members, you need to find a different forum. It's that simple.

You don't go to a chess club meeting and demand that they start knitting. Either you are here to "play chess" or not. If you are, the rules are the same for everyone.
 

Divide by Zero

The Living Force
sedenion said:
Divide By Zero said:
So why are you here?

To fill my free time... (like everyone else here, i think... even if average people here take things more seriousely)

This is funny. I don't see it that way. Way back we had to read the whole wave to apply to the private yahoo group. Why? Because if anyone can sign up- then you get a lot of noise. And yes, your ideology reminds me of the new age or some form of postmodernism, where past facts, past study (however flawed) don't matter.

But you're here for your free time, so is this purely entertainment? You can get that with movies and not care what the deeper meaning (or whether there is lack of meaning) is in those movies.


Well, this is your path... i have another one.

You haven't been open or clear about your path, you like to talk like you have one but you sound like you don't- or your path is to feel better by saying how wrong those who feel convinced are. I can do the same- I can go to a science group and say they are close minded and I know better. Or I can go to a religious group and say they are blindly believing. Both of those things I choose not to do, because I don't need to fill my free time. I have family, normal hobbies, and a full time job that takes time.


Other ideas, ok... but YOUR ideas, not the ideas of any books authors, or studies.. you see what i mean ? I love to discovers ideas of other people, how they see things. But what happen if everybody tell me: "go read this book !" ? So everybody have the same idea taken from this book ?! very disapointing for me...

See, a lot of us state our ideas. I learned from a book A, B , C and G. Some may read it or see my ideas and say, hey I saw that part of the book, there is X Y and Z too!
But if they only cared what I think or see, it is assuming that I did a good job of understanding the book. Despite having a good self-esteem, it's based on reality that I can and do make mistakes or forget things!
Even the C's say that we should research, and not go by what they say.


Divide By Zero said:
NOTHING is truly objective, but like plato's allegory of the cave, we have to see the shadows and put the clues together to get the bigger picture. You sound like you already know what is out there.

No, i don't know what is "out there", i am like everyone, trapped in this "dream"... however, that does not prevent me to have some clues, some knowledge and experience (not taken from books).

Is there really important ? Can't we just interact, like you cross some stranger in the street ? Maybe you afraid that i can be a bad manipulator, an egotistict narcissic devious guy who try <insert here your biggest fear>.. But i think you are able to detect if i am dangerous, you able to see if i am trying to washing your brain etc... I am a tourist, i do what a tourist do...
Laura said it best, we're here to play chess. So yes, you can come in and say- hi, I like chess too, I learned new techniques and so on. But show us, don't be cryptic and look down on how we play chess because you know better. If you really know a better way, we are open to that. But are you ready to see that maybe our way of playing chess might be already very good?

Why do you again attempt to make my own experience the center of the subject ? I feel like i was pointing the moon with my finger, and you are watching my finger... That does not mean what i am pointing with my finger is a very interesting or new thing, but, is my finger realy more interesting than what i pointed with it ?
No, I am asking why point at the moon, is it because you think it is made of cheese? If that is the case, I look at you and go- are we looking at the same thing?

Divide By Zero said:
I sense deep down that is why you are here. Despite you seeming so sure of your convictions, a part is not making sense. As Morpheus told Neo "like a splinter in your mind".

And maybe you are wrong...

Yeah I think I am wrong about that now after this interaction.
 

Divide by Zero

The Living Force
Mikkael said:
Hi,

with all respect I see there is no contradiction. If one is positive and aware of one's own judgments then one usually leave others to be what they are.

Thus conflict for such a man comes from the others as opposite from the self. When those others with their subjective/objective judgments attack one must face the attack at once. It is necessary however to slow down in order to assess situation to say something like "Wait a moment" so one can gain time to see what is in that attack. One must see what is the judgment of other and truthfully respond to anything which is the point of conflict. So if the other is saying the truth himself one must then admit its error and that will defuse the attack quickly. If the attack comes as subjective judgment not rooted in reality then one must give what is being asked: the truth.

If not then one is psychically entangled in situation and likely his own subjective judgments. Our problem usually is that we start to act too quickly/automatic response reflex and inflamed by ego, and surprised because not paying attention to signals and lost in internal monologues acting in confusion and with following anger. After my own painful realization of avoiding such confrontations and seeing where I fail I see as the best approach what I write above. By being calm, and staying calm one can see great many things.

Question then arise how one can stay calm in the midst of storm. Answer is quite simple yet at the same time difficult.

One must be awake.

I agree, I was at the time dealing with issues and with some people/groups that we have to interact with there is no way to offer truth.

The depressing part of society that brings me down- that we are stuck in these storms and it's hard to feel calm when the inmates run the asylum even the sane start to think they are insane. Meanwhile they are saying "what storm" and scratch their heads.

Very difficult indeed when for example, it is for a job, or with family- there's too many variables sometimes!
 

Mikkael

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
Divide By Zero said:
Mikkael said:
I agree, I was at the time dealing with issues and with some people/groups that we have to interact with there is no way to offer truth.

The depressing part of society that brings me down- that we are stuck in these storms and it's hard to feel calm when the inmates run the asylum even the sane start to think they are insane. Meanwhile they are saying "what storm" and scratch their heads.

Very difficult indeed when for example, it is for a job, or with family- there's too many variables sometimes!

Understood. I was slightly off with my perception of your post yesterday. Today I realized that. At any rate reading/making way through thread today I saw your other posts and found what you are doing is your best.

Thank you good stuff!

Edit=Quote
 

Divide by Zero

The Living Force
I just took the Hexaco test, while listening to sad music from a soundtrack. I wondered if it would change "who I was" at the moment. I got a huge chuckle from the results, maybe cause its refreshing to be ok with some of my "faults".

So, is true confidence to be confident in being "pure" or being confident in being?

I see there's a deeper point to this thread- to separate what is narcissism from healthy narcissism which Laura was originally posting this to make a point about. CONFIDENCE IN WHO WE ARE, TO FIGHT/STAND GROUND IF/WHEN THE TIME COMES. Remember in the Nuremberg trials, many were just "following orders" because they lacked a feeling that they were right. Authoritarian followers.... sorry, but they sicken me in how much harm was done with "good intentions".

This time I kept in mind that the averages are including many authoritarian followers who do things because they're taught to, not because of inner morality, but external morality. Forgive me if it sounds narcissistic, but how else can we be ourselves but to judge them and see it as weakness to be part of a "hive mind"?

I'd like to also add that I am very confident in my ability of judging people based on experience and it's track record. Even in cases where others have told me I am being pessimistic, later it's found the person is untrustworthy and manipulative. We could call it a sixth sense or some psychic thing, but I don't think I am- I think it's a byproduct of being sensitive and trusting of your own feelings. If we don't have confidence, we are more apt to hide those feelings out of habit.

(Save the result as PDF and then you can copy and paste the score)
Your Score Median Score Middle 80% of scores
Honesty-Humility 2.88 3.22 2.41 - 3.97
Sincerity 1.75 3.25 2.13 - 4.25 I answered it in general. How we have to be in society, sometimes lie to practice external consideration. And I'm reminded of Gurdjieff now: "Of course, be sincere only here in the group, and in questions concerning the common aim. Sincerity with everyone in general is weakness, slavery and even a sign of hysteria."
Fairness 1.75 3.38 2.13 - 4.63 Funny because I try to share the load in groups- but the description of society at large reminds me of the G quote above. Plus, there were questions about stealing a million dollars without being caught- why not? Didn't they steal it in a way to be so rich... IMO
(The Fairness scale assesses a tendency to avoid fraud and corruption. Low scorers are willing to gain by cheating or stealing, whereas high scorers are unwilling to take advantage of other individuals or of society at large.)

Greed-Avoidance 4.75 2.63 1.38 - 4.00 So, despite being willing to "steal" I don't have greed, haha
Modesty 3.25 3.63 2.50 - 4.50
Emotionality 3.19 3.34 2.63 - 3.97
Fearfulness 2.50 3.00 1.88 - 4.00 Lower than average, but I used to be very fearful
Anxiety 3.25 3.75 2.63 - 4.63 Surprised here, maybe changing
Dependence 3.00 3.25 2.00 - 4.25
Sentimentality 4.00 3.50 2.38 - 4.38 So, I'm not sincere but feel for others. Robin Hood, etc- appeal to me
eXtraversion 3.25 3.50 2.72 - 4.22
Social Self-Esteem 4.25 4.00 3.00 - 4.63
Social Boldness 3.75 3.13 1.88 - 4.25
Sociability 3.00 3.63 2.50 - 4.50
Liveliness 2.00 3.63 2.50 - 4.50 This went down with age and learning about the world. I don't know, it's hard to feel cheerful and enthusiastic in this "war of attrition" of truth vs lies- where lies are winning. ARGH!
(The Liveliness scale assesses one's typical enthusiasm and energy. Low scorers tend not to feel especially cheerful or dynamic, whereas high scorers usually experience a sense of optimism and high spirits.)

Agreeableness 2.31 3.00 2.22 - 3.72
Forgivingness 2.00 2.75 1.75 - 3.88 The say this is to trust and like those who have done them harm. No offense but this whole forgive and forget thing is a freaking lie that narcissists/psychopaths taught us. While G might have judged people first as dog doodoo only to make them build trust, I trust and if hurt- then I require extra proof that it will not repeat. I don't see this as a wrong strategy but I feel like I should explain it because it angers me that a lot of bad things in the world repeat because of forgive and FORGET.
Gentleness 2.25 3.25 2.25 - 4.13 Yeah, I'm not so subtle and do judge. We all do. How else can you tell who has your back and who deserves your hard work/help?
Flexibility 3.25 2.75 1.75 - 3.75 I do compromise and cooperate, despite not being gentle above.
Patience 1.75 3.25 2.00 - 4.38 Haha, bingo- thats my worst trait and with all of the breathing and focus I try, I think now the only thing I can do is to start laughing at it. I'm cracking up now.
Conscientiousness 3.44 3.47 2.72 - 4.16
Organization 2.00 3.38 2.13 - 4.38 Haha, yep I'm an organized mess. Have to work on that!
Diligence 4.00 3.88 2.88 - 4.71
Perfectionism 3.25 3.63 2.38 - 4.38 When I was perfectionist, I was much more organized. But there has to be a balance
Prudence 4.50 3.25 2.13 - 4.00 Balances out my temper and "loose morals" (above). It makes things hard though, I need a reason or deeper meaning to feel "driven".
(The Prudence scale assesses a tendency to deliberate carefully and to inhibit impulses. Low scorers act on impulse and tend not to consider consequences, whereas high scorers consider their options carefully and tend to be cautious and self-controlled.)

Openness to Experience 4.44 3.31 2.50 - 4.13
Aesthetic Appreciation 4.50 3.25 2.00 - 4.38
Inquisitiveness 5.00 3.13 1.88 - 4.38
Creativity 4.00 3.63 2.25 - 4.63
Unconventionality 4.25 3.38 2.63 - 4.25
Altruism 2.75 3.88 3.00 - 4.63 Sometimes people let themselves get hurt by everyone- and you treat them nicely only for them to pass the hurt onto you. A past love comes to mind. Current society too, what do they expect- us to feel sorry for their situation when they listened to lies and ignored truthful people throughout history?
And I think not everyone deserves pity, when they don't feel responsibility or respect it. As above, sincerity with everyone is weakness. I'm also reminded of the sott.net article on how too much empathy is a bad thing, the hallmark of social justice warriors/ butterflies and extreme cases of religions and social groups only feeling for their own. I don't feel the responsibility to take up the slack for those who are lazy. I do feel those who come on hard times deserve help. So, both right wing and left wing would disagree- what better way to destroy socialism and the safety net by making it this black and white.
The Altruism (versus Antagonism) scale assesses a tendency to be sympathetic and soft-hearted toward others. High scorers avoid causing harm and react with generosity toward those who are weak or in need of help, whereas low scorers are not upset by the prospect of hurting others and may be seen as hard-hearted.
 

genero81

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Mikkael said:
genero81 said:
All ideas come from somewhere; theirs, yours... none of them original.
This is very interesting what you speak about. But one thing I see is wrong or I don't understand really what you mean by "none of them original". Certainly when we hear something and we resonate with it we can reflect on it and then we share it. Information received is enriched through reflection and thinking by individual entity and is a new point of origin. What do you think?

Perhaps it's more accurate to say that information received is put into context through reflection and contemplation. As Knowledge and Being is increased, all personal experiences begin to fall into place. One begins to know and understand not just have ideas. What good are ideas without context which comes from understanding. We can try to share what we then know and understand but the receiver must go through the same process to truly understand.

Maybe that helps. Maybe not. :)

Edit:quotes
 

Mikkael

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
genero81 said:
Mikkael said:
genero81 said:
All ideas come from somewhere; theirs, yours... none of them original.
This is very interesting what you speak about. But one thing I see is wrong or I don't understand really what you mean by "none of them original". Certainly when we hear something and we resonate with it we can reflect on it and then we share it. Information received is enriched through reflection and thinking by individual entity and is a new point of origin. What do you think?

Perhaps it's more accurate to say that information received is put into context through reflection and contemplation. As Knowledge and Being is increased, all personal experiences begin to fall into place. One begins to know and understand not just have ideas. What good are ideas without context which comes from understanding. We can try to share what we then know and understand but the receiver must go through the same process to truly understand.

Maybe that helps. Maybe not. :)

Edit:quotes

Yes it helps. It also shows your understanding and being. It also helps me too see that it is not necessary to question every bit and attempt to post but rather contemplate then contribute and expand on what was already said (in the whole thread). I was too quick. But I'm learning. Thank you
 
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