Thiamine (Vitamin B1) - A common deficiency in disorders of energy metabolism, cardiovascular and nervous system dysfunction

I did the most stupid thing, didn't want to be without thiamine and because Thiamax was out of the stock at the moment I
ordered Benfothiamine to try it out and to have at least something by hand.
I took 2 pills a day, one in the morning and one afternoon- that's 500 mg total.
First 4 days it was great but then my muscles started to hurt like crazy, that feeling like you are gonna get cramps all day long.
So I quit.
With same amount per day my husband is feeling great. :huh:
I guess now I know what's better for me but it's definitely interesting
Long live @Keyhole , you have a great product and thank you ;-D
The muscle aches might be related to an electrolyte issue. Consider adding in some magnesium and potassium and see!
 
My wife has been suffering from sore, dry eyes for the last couple of years. She's been to a couple of opthalmologists, nothing turned up. She's now using various eye drops but relief is temporary, the root cause still seems to be there. It's definitely exacerbated by having to use the computer a lot (Zoom calls more than ever thanks to COVID) but that's unavoidable. I'm not convinced it is the cause because it seems to be a chronic thing now.

After watching the videos about Thiamine and also seeing this...


... I had the thought that it could be Thiamine related. I'm going to do more research (to save her eyes). Anyone have any experience like this?
 
Hi @Ben, I am an optometrist & I’ve just completed some further study in dry eye disease. Some of the more recent research suggests that it is not just a deficiency of a component of the tear film but also an inflammatory process that perpetuates the cycle. If your wife has been seen by ophthalmologists and provided there is no issue with the eyelids in terms of infection of the eye lids (blepharitis) then there are certain things that she can do to help alleviate the symptoms:

*Omega 3 (fish oil) capsules have been shown to help due to the anti-inflammatory effects.
*Warm compress and gentle lid massage to stimulate the glands in the eyelids to secrete the lipid (oil) layer of the tear film. Alternatively there are optometrists who can do in-office therapy like heat/steam masks and gentle expression of the lids in case of blocked eye lid (meibomian) glands (these secrete the oil/lipid layer of the tear film)
*Artificial tears which address both the aqueous & lipid layers of the tear film can also help provide some longer lasting relief, &/or using a gel or ointment at night. It's best to use preservative free eyedrops, as some preservatives can disrupt the tear film & perpetuate the problem. (Systane Complete or NovaTears with Omega 3 for eg)
*Providing there are no allergies to bee pollen products, Manuka honey eye drops also help the meibomian glands and decrease the reliance on artificial tears. They can sting a bit on instillation but that doesn't last long.
*Gut microbiome dysbiosis has also been implicated in dry eye disease, so that is something to consider as well.

There are other things that can help as well (such as a short course of very mild anti-inflammatory eye drops, low dose doxycycline which has anti-inflammatory effects) but are a further step in a staged management plan, I would try the above first.

I have been meaning to create a thread with more information & will do soon, hope this helps in the meantime!
 
Hi @Ben, I am an optometrist & I’ve just completed some further study in dry eye disease. Some of the more recent research suggests that it is not just a deficiency of a component of the tear film but also an inflammatory process that perpetuates the cycle. If your wife has been seen by ophthalmologists and provided there is no issue with the eyelids in terms of infection of the eye lids (blepharitis) then there are certain things that she can do to help alleviate the symptoms:

*Omega 3 (fish oil) capsules have been shown to help due to the anti-inflammatory effects.
*Warm compress and gentle lid massage to stimulate the glands in the eyelids to secrete the lipid (oil) layer of the tear film. Alternatively there are optometrists who can do in-office therapy like heat/steam masks and gentle expression of the lids in case of blocked eye lid (meibomian) glands (these secrete the oil/lipid layer of the tear film)
*Artificial tears which address both the aqueous & lipid layers of the tear film can also help provide some longer lasting relief, &/or using a gel or ointment at night. It's best to use preservative free eyedrops, as some preservatives can disrupt the tear film & perpetuate the problem. (Systane Complete or NovaTears with Omega 3 for eg)
*Providing there are no allergies to bee pollen products, Manuka honey eye drops also help the meibomian glands and decrease the reliance on artificial tears. They can sting a bit on instillation but that doesn't last long.
*Gut microbiome dysbiosis has also been implicated in dry eye disease, so that is something to consider as well.

There are other things that can help as well (such as a short course of very mild anti-inflammatory eye drops, low dose doxycycline which has anti-inflammatory effects) but are a further step in a staged management plan, I would try the above first.

I have been meaning to create a thread with more information & will do soon, hope this helps in the meantime!

Thank so much. She has been using a warm compress and a couple of artificial tear brands but I always suspected there would be better stuff available. Will get some omega 3 to supplement our diet.
 
Thank so much. She has been using a warm compress and a couple of artificial tear brands but I always suspected there would be better stuff available. Will get some omega 3 to supplement our diet.
FWIW, I've been using prescription Restatis eye drops for about a decade now. It took a while to kick in, but they made it better, not cured, just better. I believe there is another brand out there now hat is similar. I was told by my doc not to use fish oil, because in my case the vitreous had thinned (I've has several posterior vitreous detachments) and that would thin it even more.
 
@Keyhole,
I discovered this thread few days ago (Thank You!) and ordered regular thiamine before I got to the part that talked about the TTFD advantages (which I should be getting later today). I've been mega-dosing that regular thiamine last few days and I'm excited that my ataxia issues are slowly improving. Tingling in my feet is gone and my legs feel less Pinocchio-ish although not good enough for a longer run yet. I've been researching this topic online a bit and few studies talk about intramuscular injections of thiamine for ataxia. Do you think that's something worth pursueing or TTFD alone should get those issues under control eventually?
For some backround I'm 45 and fairy active (mainly biking and trying to get back into running), but I've been strugling lately since excersise seems to make my balance issues worse. I'm neither a big alcohol or coffee drinker so I'm guessing there might be some genetic component involved.
 
I have been reading about Vitamin B on the forum and experimenting myself.

I am trying to find if there is thread on the forum that not only recommends what types of Vitamin B but what brand? What are your personal favourite brands, specifically ones I will be able to get in Canada?

I am using the search bar but it is bringing up SO many threads even ones that just include any word with the letter "B" in it.

Any help or suggestions are deeply appreciated.

A special thank you to all those who have posted about the benefits of the different Vitamin B's
 
Maybe start here with B1.


One of our members here produces this brand, focusing on B1:
 
Maybe start here with B1.


One of our members here produces this brand, focusing on B1:
Thanks, B1 is the one I have been taking. Made an order last night
 
I have been reading about Vitamin B on the forum and experimenting myself.

I am trying to find if there is thread on the forum that not only recommends what types of Vitamin B but what brand? What are your personal favourite brands, specifically ones I will be able to get in Canada?

I am using the search bar but it is bringing up SO many threads even ones that just include any word with the letter "B" in it.

Any help or suggestions are deeply appreciated.

A special thank you to all those who have posted about the benefits of the different Vitamin B's
Here's my understanding so far:
B1 (thiamine) deficiency is the one this thread talks about, but there are different kinds available. Thiamine mononitrate is the least expensive, but you need to take about 2000mg a day of it to see results. Benfotiamine is better absorbed (not sure about dosage - start low and increase). Allithiamine / TTFD / Lipothiamine (different names, same thing) is the one that's supposed to be able to cross blood brain barrier (also start low and increase if no results). Some people tolerate some kinds better than other. Magnesium and other B vitamins should be taken with it, or they will be depleted from the body (normal dosage tho).
Coffee, tee, alcohol, sugar, high level physical activities make b1 deficiency worse. Some people have genetic abnormalities (rare) and will become deficient when not supplementing no matter what. If you look up beriberi that will give you most common signs of deficiency.
Like I mentioned above b1 seems to help constipation in a major way too but in a different way than diuretics. It doesn't draw water into intestines... It just kind off makes things work as they should again. The difference is quite startling if you had to deal with constipation for a while.
 
Coffee, tee, alcohol, sugar, high level physical activities make b1 deficiency worse. Some people have genetic abnormalities (rare) and will become deficient when not supplementing no matter what. If you look up beriberi that will give you most common signs of deficiency.
Like I mentioned above b1 seems to help constipation in a major way too but in a different way than diuretics. It doesn't draw water into intestines... It just kind off makes things work as they should again. The difference is quite startling if you had to deal with constipation for a while.
I have been reducing caffeine intake, hardly drink alcohol and very minimal sugar. I have not heard tea making b1 levels worse though, do you have a recommended source where you read that or is it a personal experience?

I started taking B1 because of the threads on this forum. B1 has been one of the only things to help with my constipation. I am very thankful this has been working. I am looking forward to trying the brand that @PopHistorian suggested
 
I have been reducing caffeine intake, hardly drink alcohol and very minimal sugar. I have not heard tea making b1 levels worse though, do you have a recommended source where you read that or is it a personal experience?

I started taking B1 because of the threads on this forum. B1 has been one of the only things to help with my constipation. I am very thankful this has been working. I am looking forward to trying the brand that @PopHistorian suggested
I've been taking b1 for only 2 weeks so not much personal experience with it. I've always had dyspraxia type balance issues, but lately it's been getting worse which is not really something that dyspraxia does because it's a developmental thing (I'm 45). I've tried a general doctor but he run some tests and said I'm fine, come back in 6 months. Exercise is supposed to help with balance, but it's been having opposite effects if I did anything more than 2 hours long. So I've been reading research papers about neurological diseases like multiple sclerosis and parkinsons, but although I have some of the symptoms I don't really have any of the more typical. My main gripe lately has been that I seem to be hitting a wall after about 2 hours of hiking, or half an hour of running. My legs get really stiff and hard to walk. I've been just starting to look into ataxia and I randomly found this thread so I started looking into research papers mentioning ataxia and thiamine together. There are also some hereditary ataxias that can be related to how body is able to use thiamine due to some genetic trait, but those typicaly appear in younger age and get really bad really fast. So I don't know... maybe I'm just a little bit of everything...

I bought some run of the mill high dose thiamine mononitrate + a bit of benfo mix and started high dosing that (800mg in the morning and evening, sometimes another 800 middle of the day). Constipation relief was unexpected and very immediate. Typically I would take 1200mg of magnesium citrate in the evening on my off days and 1600-2000mg on my exercise days, but a day or three after starting b1 I had to cut that down to 400mg a day and even skipped magnesium entirerly on some days and still went pooping. So I'm pretty hyped just about that, especially because magnesium was getting me bloated if I overdone it.

My legs definitely stopped getting worse, and there have been some on and off improvements (feet tingling) but very slow. I've also had some flu over the last week and couldn't go work out so tbd on that. I'm also planning on stopping thiamine mononitrate and trying higher doses of TTFD instead to compare, but like I said I couldn't exercise which is my main gage and mono is working so far at least to a degree. B1 deficency is supposed to be destroying nerves so I'm hoping there's going to be some regeneration happening over time.

Study below talks about alcohol and other things but I haven't noticed much corellation. My alcohol intake although is there, it is minimal. I don't drink tee and more than a cup of coffee a day on the weekends because I would get bloated otherway so maybe I just not tried hard enough to see effects. My uneducated guess is that as long as you're not overdoing any of those then it's probably not the main reason for your issues. My curent theory for myself is probably excerise + some genetic trait. My father has balance issues too although I haven't talked with him about it yet. I've been taking magnesium for the last 10 years, so if I just have to replace it with a cheap b1 and see no progression and maybe small improovements I'll be happy about that.

7.3. Alcohol, Tobacco, Coffee and Tea Consumption​

While chronic alcoholism is a recognized contributor to thiamine deficiency, the role of regular alcohol consumption, below the threshold of alcoholism, is underappreciated. Regardless of amount, the ethanol in alcohol blocks conversion of dietary thiamine into active thiamine [156], reducing thiamine availability by as much as 54% [157]. It is simply a matter of degree relative to chronicity that determines the rate of thiamine depletion. When consumed regularly, alcohol damages intestinal mucosa [158], resulting in impaired absorption and dysbiosis [159]. Dysbiosis, may be a cause or consequence of reduced thiamine, at least initially, but ultimately, becomes self-reinforcing if thiamine status is not corrected [112,116].
Nicotine in tobacco products, also inhibits thiamine availability via antagonism of a thiamine transporter in the pancreatic acinar cells by >40% [160] and possibly in other tissues as well. This impairs insulin secretion [161]. Nicotine use, in combination with alcohol ingestion, is implicated the development of pancreatitis [162]. Inasmuch as both limit thiamine uptake, it is conceivable pancreatitis is an indirect manifestation of thiamine deficiency.
Finally, caffeic acid, chlorogenic acid, and tannic acid in coffee, tea, and energy drinks, oxidize the thiazole ring of the thiamine molecule, impairing its absorption, while the added sugars, flavors and other substances to enhance taste, increase thiamine demand. Sixty-two percent of Americans consume an average of three cups of coffee per day [163], suggesting this popular food item may contribute more to TD than acknowledged.
 
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