The Vegetarian Myth

jhonny

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I forgot to register that 100gr of meat equals to 250gr of carrots in calories
I don't think calories are the point when you compare meat and veggies; nutrient-dense foods should be the main concern, so taking this into account, you compared meat, but you haven't specified which kind, is it muscle meat or organ meat? If you compare for example, liver and carrots because of their content in vitamin A, liver is rich in Retinol which is the bioactive form of vitamin A, this means the body can use it immediately; carrots are rich in beta-carotene which is called PRO-vitamin A, this means our body needs an enzyme to transform it into the form the body can use it, and It cannot be said with certainty that this enzyme effectively in all people. Or the B vitamins, iron and zinc, liver is rich in all these, while carrots are not.

Also, there are nutrients that are NOT find in any veggie, like vitamin B12, creatine, carnosine, taurine and HEME iron. These are essential for the proper functioning of our body.

it's surprising that someone doesn't like purely technical information about Food Chain.
In this context, I'd like to share here a lecture that I posted in another thread, but I think it's relevant to share in this thread. It is all about plant toxins in an evolutionary context. The lecture was given by George Diggs, at the Ancestral Health Symposium.
 

zak

Dagobah Resident
What I can see, my post is align with context of thread, but ok, I thank everyone to show me what is likeable here.
About NetWorking:
Whereas self-serving beings naturally form hierarchies with the strongest and most ruthless at the top, service to others beings would form networks. In the words of the Cassiopaeans, the concept of networking is a foretaste of fourth density service to others.
To bring the idea into context, we can start with George Gurdjieff’s definition of a group: In a group, what is gained by one is gained by all and what is lost by one is lost by all. A group in this sense can only exist within the context of esoteric work. Such a group is free from disagreementnot because of a command structure but because the same truths are seen by all.We can distinguish two types of group effects:

1.The group descends to the level of the lowest common denominator, as happens in lynch mobs and other cases of mass hysteria.

2.The group rises to the sum total of the understandings and capacities of all members. This happens to a small degree in teams displaying good synergy. However, the imperfect quality of human communication and friction coming from personality dampens these effects and usually limits their scope to a well-practiced area such as playing a team sport or playing in an orchestra.

The hope of esoteric work is to make these effects greater and more comprehensive. Achieving this is sometimes called the communion of saints. This goes beyond a social phenomenon and involves sharing the ’substance of knowledge’ or ’higherhydrogens’ generated in group work.
In general we can say that a group amplifies whatever is a consistently shared and applied principle in the group’s work. This contains a catch: We often find, specially on the Internet, New Age groups that are in a sense ’open’ but where the exchange degenerates if not into a shouting match then into a more subtle feeding or pleading or manipulating contest.
It seems that internal work for purifying the signal and making the self first clear is a prerequisite for a group to amplify anything but subjectivity.
For mixed, predominantly self-serving entities such as present day humans, indiscriminate sharing of everything simply makes noise. A great deal of attention is required for the participants to overcome first themselves and then act in a manner approximating service to others oriented beings,rather than according to their default impulses.
Again, determining what constitutes service to others in each case is its own question but a certain skill or sense for this can form via practice –seeLaw of Three.
In practice, a network does not imply the interchangeability of all members. This is not achievable nor is it the goal.
Having reached a similar level of development does not imply identity of personality or group think but does imply striving for seeing the same understandings. A group can involve specialization and contain teachers and students, but is by definition a voluntary structure
and does not exist for the benefit of any single member or subgroup. Instead, such a group may exist for performing a specific esoteric task, as may be required by the time and context.
The concept of giving back is emphasized by the Fourth Way. Since the principle of service to others represents balance through the idea of serving self through serving others, this principle requires reciprocity in order to work. Balance cannot be legislated but it may occur naturally if the participants share the same direction, i.e. are collinear.
For fourth density harvestability, a network offers distinct advantages over working alone. The members can complete each other even though their own vibrational purity were not perfect.
For graduating to fourth density service to self, the aspirants must generally work alone since the very idea of service to self sees sharing as generally undesirable
FOTCM - CassWiki PDF

about you criticism, Please Regard when I said "It's possible" I didn't made any value judgment, no merit, neither opinion like good or bad. I know vegetarian families, vegetarian people, I'm aware about this subject, among many others about Food Chain.
I would like to ask you: are you a vegetarian yourself?
As you know vegetatian/people and families, in regard of this thread, can you share with us their dynamics, particularly that of families.
If you had already talked about it, or even answered my first question, can you give me the link.

to not post whithout info, I forgot to register that 100gr of meat equals to 250gr of carrots in calories
Your info would be even more practical, if it was explained, and especially where you were really going with it.
 

SevenFeathers

Jedi Council Member
If you think that when you eat a plant or vegetable that you're eating something that didn't feel pain or wasn't "alive", I hate to tell you that you are mistaken. Have you not read of the studies done that show that plants feel pain and respond to their environment?. So your moral righteousness, your "alignment with vitality", really has no basis in reality. Animals have to eat plants to survive, other animals have to eat those animals to survive, and humans eat animals and plants for our survival. It is the way nature has made it





I was looking for posts on how plants feel pain, because a road worker just came down my road and "trimmed" the trees by my fence line. Trimmed is not the right word though, the limbs are jagged and pulled off by the blades he used. I started hearing the noise of his machine and by the time I could see what was happening, it was too late to stop him (as my trees are not near the road and didn't need the cut). I felt awful when I saw how the trees looked, experiencing some kind of empathy towards them. I felt like crying. So they must have been screaming in plant language, crying for their torn limbs.

So vegetarians who don't eat meat because of the "pain and suffering" of the animals, well, they are fooling themselves. Plants feel pain, too.
 
Hi zak, thank you for reply, I really appreciate and apologize you to not came back this forum before today.

the concept of networking is a foretaste of fourth density service to others.

agree, and personally think I'm not more "feeling a foretaste", but the "taste" or a "kind of metaphorical taste". I prefer to use the term Energy Signature (like a kind of taste for energy sensitivity), because this neology surely works fine up to fifth density, probably even above.

Of course, this sensitivity requires knowing the energetic bodies and knowing how to work with the energies they receives, produces and emits, but that understanding is another matter. The issue here focuses on the aspect that "Everything is Energy" so the physical world is formed by condensed energy, and food whatever they are, are also Energy processes.

The hope of esoteric work is to make these effects greater and more comprehensive.

agree, because Food Chain is not limited to third density, for example, on four density the "emotions" can be seen as a kind of food.

as emotions are "abstract" stuff, I think it match with "esoteric work", along with feelings and thoughts, so those who are not coherently aware of all these things together, face difficulties in understanding. It is precisely in this aspect that the understanding of Energies is fundamental to recognize both the causes and the effects, in the broadest and most comprehensive way possible that each individual is capable of doing.

to complete, the conception of "individual" indicates that each individual is an individual who does not know the whole, so the basic way for individuals to communicate and share individual experiences is by a network

In practice, a network does not imply the interchangeability of all members.

indeed ..

I would like to ask you: are you a vegetarian yourself?
As you know vegetatian/people and families, in regard of this thread, can you share with us their dynamics, particularly that of families.

I'm not vegetarian. I try few times to not eat meat (like others), and heard carefully about what happened to others who also tried. The first adverse symptom reported was memory loss, followed by problems with the immune system and reduced physical capacity

I met a family of Nepalese and another of Indians. Because of their beliefs and hunger which they lived in their countries of origin, they ate absolutely nothing of animal origin. In my opinion, they were thin and even looked malnourished by "brazilian standards", but in return they were very intelligent and kind. Virtually, physical strength was not lacking to them.

It's relevant to note that "not eat meat" or being vegetarian for these people, is a genetic and cultural heritage. it's ironic, because they never tried to be vegetarian because they just don't know any other way of life.

Your info would be even more practical, if it was explained, and especially where you were really going with it.

I apologize because I didn't know what to say, and I have difficulties with English language.

I wanted to refer to another ironic question, because a vegetarian needs to eat two to three times more food to supply the body, which in a way shows why vegetarians tend to be thinny. Herbivores in nature spend most of their time eating or ruminating (chewing), which is one of the points that cannot be avoided. Objectively, the individual who changes the diet to vegetarian, has to eat at least twice food, and not only that, need to select very carefully the sources of protein that the body can metabolize.
 

Ant22

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
I came across this video of Greta showing the deterioration of her physical appearance over the past 2 years. The author attributes it to her vegan diet, which isn't unlikely I think. I experienced a similar loss of fat tissue and overall volume of my face when I was vegetarian. I looked much older 6 years ago than I do now. Back then I explained it to myself as loss of baby fat, which is natural with age, but during the years of eating meat again I gradually regained quite a lot of that "baby fat", so it couldn't have been just a natural part of the aging process. I'm still very skinny but my face regained its plumpness and volume. I sometimes show my photos from the final stages of my vegetarianism to friends to show them the difference the change in diet made for me and they are usually quite shocked.

Another thing that makes me wonder about Greta's looks is that maybe years of being food for multiple individuals around her has sucked up her energy to the point she looks the way she does. The final stages of my vegetarianism overlapped with a very toxic relationship with someone who could have been a psychopath, or at least a very damaged/disturbed person. But my health and facial features started to change even before I met him, so I do think the diet played a huge role.

That said, reintroducing meat into my diet overlaps with joining the forum and reading the Wave (and finding this thread!), so I guess other factors may have contributed too, not just meat.

 
Last edited:

Recto

Jedi
I came across this video of Greta showing the deterioration of her physical appearance over the past 2 years. The author attributes it to her vegan diet, which isn't unlikely I think. I experienced a similar loss of fat tissue and overall volume of my face when I was vegetarian. I looked much older 6 years ago than I do now. Back then I explained it to myself as loss of baby fat, which is natural with age, but during the years of eating meat again I gradually regained quite a lot of that "baby fat", so it couldn't have been just a natural part of the aging process. I'm still very skinny but my face regained its plumpness and volume. I sometimes show my photos from the final stages of my vegetarianism to friends to show them the difference the change in diet made for me and they are usually quite shocked.

Another thing that makes me wonder about Greta's looks is that maybe years of being food for multiple individuals around her has sucked up her energy to the point she looks the way she does. The final stages of my vegetarianism overlapped with a very toxic relationship with someone who could have been a psychopath, or at least a very damaged/disturbed person. But my health and facial features started to change even before I met him, so I do think the diet played a huge role.

That said, reintroducing meat into my diet overlaps with joining the forum and reading the Wave (and finding this thread!), so I guess other factors may have contributed too, not just meat.


Beyond weight loss and her shocking change of appearance there are well known health consequences for following a vegetarian diet (the same as the SAD diet). I'm currently reading Primal Body Primal Mind and this excerpt is, I think, a good example of such deterioration :

Also, where telomere length is concerned, it’s important to keep your
homocysteine levels as low as you can. Homocysteine is a toxic by-product of
cellular metabolism that has been linked to heart disease, Alzheimer’s disease,
and Parkinson’s disease. Primary methyl donors such as vitamins B6, B12, and
folic acid as well as other methyl donors such as dimethylglycine (DMG),
trimethylglycine (TMG), betaine, and S-adenosyl methionine (SAMe) have been
shown to readily and successfully lower homocysteine levels. Good thing, too.
Now there’s yet another reason to monitor homocysteine levels and keep them in
check: relatively recent research has shown that high levels of homocysteine
can triple the rate of telomere loss during cellular division
(Xu et al. 2000).Homocysteine rapidly ages you and significantly increases your susceptibility to disease! B-complex vitamins (particularly B6, B12, and folic acid) are cheap
insurance in this regard, though I always make a point of getting at least some
B12 in its methylcobalamin form sublingually to ensure absorption. Note that a
high percentage of vegetarians have a tendency toward high homocysteine

(Wadoa et al. 2004).

Telomeres' length from what I understood are directly related to aging. So following a vegan diet may very well make you age 3 times faster than normal ! It is very sad to see Greta as a young woman waste away so rapidly. And as you said, being surrounded by manipulators and psychic vampires only adds fuel to the fire. Telomeres length can also be shortened, for instance, by loosing a father at a young age or experiencing "subjective" solitude for long periods of time. Who knows what profond body deteriorations, the psychological trauma/abuse inflicted by psychopathic individual could cause. The implications are so far reaching its staggering.

I hope she'll become aware of her current state and surrounding before she drives herself to the ground, or worse, the grave...
 

Steph_rivers

The Force is Strong With This One
Greta is a deepstate asset. So is 90% of the vegan agenda. There is something fishy about the vegan push to begin with. I am one myself. I do not have an issue with anyone eating meat. I just hope they do it in a way that benefits their health in the best way possible. A lot of this stuff is propaganda. I also think this isn't for everyone. Somehow, however. I am still strong if not stronger in some aspects than I have been before. It may be due to intention, sacrifice, and fasting. It's just a personal choice, and if you push this guilt trip on people, you are no better than the blood sucking STS creatures lurking about. Maybe it's the thought/desire that I really wish not to consume anything anymore. I am not underweight by any means. I am 5'4" and weigh 170 pounds. can bench 255 and squat 315. Could just be my youth. If my health was deteriorating however, I wouldn't strongly hesitate eating meat again. I would do it a lot more consciously and gratefully. I learned a lot from Laura and the team. A LOT of reflection and letting go of things that literally do not matter. I am not here to debate or make a point. Just here to share a point of view from a vegan who despises most other vegans lol. Much luck on your efforts to STO brothers and sisters. We can do it. :deadhorse: I really feel like people are beating a dead horse here lol
 

Recto

Jedi
Greta is a deepstate asset. So is 90% of the vegan agenda. There is something fishy about the vegan push to begin with. I am one myself. I do not have an issue with anyone eating meat. I just hope they do it in a way that benefits their health in the best way possible. A lot of this stuff is propaganda. I also think this isn't for everyone. Somehow, however. I am still strong if not stronger in some aspects than I have been before. It may be due to intention, sacrifice, and fasting. It's just a personal choice, and if you push this guilt trip on people, you are no better than the blood sucking STS creatures lurking about. Maybe it's the thought/desire that I really wish not to consume anything anymore. I am not underweight by any means. I am 5'4" and weigh 170 pounds. can bench 255 and squat 315. Could just be my youth. If my health was deteriorating however, I wouldn't strongly hesitate eating meat again. I would do it a lot more consciously and gratefully. I learned a lot from Laura and the team. A LOT of reflection and letting go of things that literally do not matter. I am not here to debate or make a point. Just here to share a point of view from a vegan who despises most other vegans lol. Much luck on your efforts to STO brothers and sisters. We can do it. :deadhorse: I really feel like people are beating a dead horse here lol

I'm not sure to whom you're talking, however I suppose I'm part of the guilt trip pushers so I'll add a couple thoughts if you don't mind.

The intention of my post above wasn't to guilt trip vegan or vegetarian people but sharing information that I thought was relevant to the conversation. This information may be wrong in itself or taken out of context, hence warping its meaning. I am no subject expert, it happens (that's why we network). If you have some piece of info or research that goes counter to what have been discussed here I (and other forum members) would be please to hear it and discuss it.

Concerning Greta, her diet wasn't the sole possible cause explored as the psychological/pathological/social aspect was also brought up. I agree, there are far more parameters that are unknown to us to be truly sure of what's happening, but discussing this topic is far from guilt tripping anyone IMO. Networking with others is to be able to correct our subjective biases after all, so censoring ourselves isn't the right approach in my opinion.

As a new member of this forum, the horse hasn't been thoroughly beaten yet. Maybe it is just a question of perspective... My 2 cents.
 

Metrist

Dagobah Resident
About face fat...
I had been treated for diabetes, and had to watch my diet, and loose weight. I got healthy fast, but in the winter my face got real cold in the winter air. I worried about frostbite, so I decided to put on some weight, hoping it would give me some insulation against the cold. So, you have to account for the reason you have fat to begin with. Too little, and it is like losing its protective qualities.
 

Steph_rivers

The Force is Strong With This One
I'm not sure to whom you're talking, however I suppose I'm part of the guilt trip pushers so I'll add a couple thoughts if you don't mind.

The intention of my post above wasn't to guilt trip vegan or vegetarian people but sharing information that I thought was relevant to the conversation. This information may be wrong in itself or taken out of context, hence warping its meaning. I am no subject expert, it happens (that's why we network). If you have some piece of info or research that goes counter to what have been discussed here I (and other forum members) would be please to hear it and discuss it.

Concerning Greta, her diet wasn't the sole possible cause explored as the psychological/pathological/social aspect was also brought up. I agree, there are far more parameters that are unknown to us to be truly sure of what's happening, but discussing this topic is far from guilt tripping anyone IMO. Networking with others is to be able to correct our subjective biases after all, so censoring ourselves isn't the right approach in my opinion.

As a new member of this forum, the horse hasn't been thoroughly beaten yet. Maybe it is just a question of perspective... My 2 cents.
Miscommunication. This is the internet after all, and things get warped the easiest. None of my message was directed towards you. The guilt tripping is in reference to the vegan community forcing their beliefs on people who eat meat. Fighting fire with fire. I agree, Greta is a manipulated asset, as you are saying.
 

Nienna

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
The guilt tripping is in reference to the vegan community forcing their beliefs on people who eat meat.
This is how I read your post, Steph_rivers. So maybe it is the frame of mind the reader is in as to how it was interpreted.

We ask new members to introduce themselves in the Newbies section of the forum. You don't have to put anything really personal in the post, just a bit about how you found the forum, if you've read any of Laura's books, articles, etc. And, if you choose, a little bit about yourself.
 

Recto

Jedi
Miscommunication. This is the internet after all, and things get warped the easiest. None of my message was directed towards you. The guilt tripping is in reference to the vegan community forcing their beliefs on people who eat meat. Fighting fire with fire. I agree, Greta is a manipulated asset, as you are saying.

I see... My apologies, I misread your post entirely. I'll be more careful next time around.
 

Steph_rivers

The Force is Strong With This One
This is how I read your post, Steph_rivers. So maybe it is the frame of mind the reader is in as to how it was interpreted.

We ask new members to introduce themselves in the Newbies section of the forum. You don't have to put anything really personal in the post, just a bit about how you found the forum, if you've read any of Laura's books, articles, etc. And, if you choose, a little bit about yourself.
Thanks, I’m completely new to this. I will go ahead and do so! Also, if there’s a mini road map or something on what I should do before treading on anything please let me know.
 

Steph_rivers

The Force is Strong With This One
I actually wanted to add onto this thread here. Reading about the C’s opinion on vegetarianism and our anatomy, really got me to consider eating meat after two years of being vegan. I am glad I did. I actually lost weight and am beginning to lean out now. I put myself into ketosis and honestly I’m loving how I feel. It’s been about a month now and honestly I feel clear headed. The brain fog is gone. I did indeed had the mind virus of “guilt” for eating meat and honestly saw it for what it is. It’s our nature. We can’t deny it, at least I can’t for now 😅. I just wanted to thank people here for sharing their stories and also inspiring me to consider thinking with all possibilities available and not just my emotions and opinion of what is “right and wrong” (which is nonsense lol). That being said I think plant based eating is good for detox purpose but not intended for long term sustainment.
 

Ant22

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
It's a bit of old news but Belgium has made it easier to prosecute vegan parents whose children develop heath issues. Apparently a vegan diet for children is allowed under medical supervision and if there are no health issues. As quoted below, a number of sources reported this.

I'd say it's a step in a good direction but as a former vegetarian with vegan episodes unfortunately I have the experience of 12 years of worsening health despite supplementation, while no tests ever detected any issues. And I spent a fortune on blood tests, both through my GP as well as privately. I took loads of supplements too. In case anyone wonders why I didn't abandon the diet earlier, the self-indoctrination most vegetarians/vegans subject themselves to meant that I blamed everything and anything but not the diet. Fortunately, I always had lots of butter and eggs. Otherwise I'd probably be a braindead zombie today.

Children can follow a vegan diet if it’s accompanied by medical supervision, regular blood tests, and vitamin supplements, Belgian pediatricians concluded. However, parents who don’t follow through on the additional requirements risk two years in prison, fines, and the possibility that their children will be removed from their homes if the kids do have associated health issues.

As draconian as that sounds, there are some grounds for the new legal opinion, Belgian experts argue. Bernard Devos, a regional government official responsible for children’s rights and protection in Brussels and the French-speaking region of Wallonia, requested a ruling on veganism’s health effects on kids after a number of deaths in schools, nurseries, and hospitals believed to be linked to the diet. The ruling will make it easier for officials to take legal action against parents in cases where poor health is associated with a vegan diet.

Doctors in Belgium have called for parents who raise their children as vegans to face prosecution after a number of deaths in schools, nurseries and hospitals.

The Royal Academy of Medicine of Belgium, in an opinion published Thursday, asserted it is unethical to subject children to a diet that does not include animal proteins and amino acids that can help growth and prevent health problems.

The vegan diet could only be made safe for growing children if complemented with medical supervision, regular blood tests, and vitamin supplements, the academy opinion stated.

Plant-based food lacks proteins and vital amino acids and therefore can stunt growth and cause health problems for children, doctors said in a bombshell legal opinion published last week. Kids raised vegan need to be constantly monitored and require additional dietary intake to avoid deficiencies. Such a “destabilizing diet” is therefore “not ethical to impose on children,” the report argued.

The opinion was issued at the request of a government official after a number of cases where children faced complications, including critical medical conditions, after switching to a vegan diet, according to the Le Soir daily. The report could lead to changes in the law. Forcing kids to abandon animal proteins could be legally qualified as “non-assistance to a person in danger,” a crime which entails a prison sentence of up to two years in Belgium, professor Georges Casimir, one of the authors of the report told the paper.
 
Top Bottom