The New History of Mankind: Who Are we? What are we? How did we get here?

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Mauro Biglino " the fall of the Gods"
Is interesting what he said regarding this topic ...

That book has nothing to do with the quote you responded with. And, now you give a book name with no explanation, link or comment about your statement. If you are going to post then I think it would help if you put more thought into it.

I think we are clones of some other beings ...Wich they call elhoims..

Please think about what you are trying to say and give more information.
 
That book has nothing to do with the quote you responded with. And, now you give a book name with no explanation, link or comment about your statement. If you are going to post then I think it would help if you put more thought into it.



Please think about what you are trying to say and give more information.

????? Ok ..next time I will think before I wrote something ....and rethink about and rethink about it...and again sorry if you feel threat...let it go...
 
????? Ok ..next time I will think before I wrote something ....and rethink about and rethink about it...and again sorry if you feel threat...let it go...
And if you feel more comfortable ..I will erase it but right now I'm running to work..I will do it later...anyway my quote said " I Think" is not a statement ...
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
????? Ok ..next time I will think before I wrote something ....and rethink about and rethink about it...and again sorry if you feel threat...let it go...

@piliangie ,

Your post was not taken as a "threat". It is just better for you to take your time and think about how your post relates to a thread and give some supporting information to help the reader give a response.

And if you feel more comfortable ..I will erase it but right now I'm running to work..I will do it later...anyway my quote said " I Think" is not a statement ...

You cannot erase your posts and the forum does not "erase" posts. "I think" was not taken as an "I know" but it is your thought. That thought would be better understood if it is clarified and supported at least by some logic/information "I think".

Hope you get to to work safely. Sounds like you have some stress as we all do.
 
@piliangie ,

Your post was not taken as a "threat". It is just better for you to take your time and think about how your post relates to a thread and give some supporting information to help the reader give a response.



You cannot erase your posts and the forum does not "erase" posts. "I think" was not taken as an "I know" but it is your thought. That thought would be better understood if it is clarified and supported at least by some logic/information "I think".

Hope you get to to work safely. Sounds like you have some stress as we all do.
Nop not stress just in a little bit in a hurry......
I m seeing this videos of Mauro Biglino...he used to work for the Vatican doing translation of the Bible and this man has his own theories of where humankind came from ..ok? That's all...why don't you take a look of his videos I'm not saying by any chance that what Laura recommended
The books are not good or reliable information is just another probabilities...
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Nop not stress just in a little bit in a hurry......
I m seeing this videos of Mauro Biglino...he used to work for the Vatican doing translation of the Bible and this man has his own theories of where humankind came from ..ok? That's all...why don't you take a look of his videos I'm not saying by any chance that what Laura recommended
The books are not good or reliable information is just another probabilities...

Sorry, but why don't you take a serious look at this thread first and then maybe we can talk more. That is a possibility too (or not).
 

itellsya

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Another discovery in Denisova Cave has come to light. Apparently the pieces found make up the statuette of a cave lion. It's 45,000 years old - pending confirmation on the dating - and, if so, that would make it the oldest of its kind in the world. They think it's too simplistic to be a toy and, sadly, at the moment, it's incomplete.

What struck me as interesting, in light of the discussion of the slaughter of the cosmic bull in Zoroastriansm, is the following in The Siberian Times article:

After finishing the figurine, the cave artist used red ochre to paint it.

So far traces of it were found mostly around the stomach area - which even led to an idea that it could be symbolising a bleeding wound - but researcher Alexander Fedorchenko believes that most likely the whole animal was painted red.

Remains of ocher were found only in the southern gallery of the Denisova cave.

I think it's interesting that they even speculated it may have been bleeding, and from the stomach, although another researcher goes on to state that he thinks it may have been all red, which is certainly possible, it's incomplete after all. Is there something to the fact that red ocher was only found in one part of the cave?

Obviously the imagery of the lion reminded me of the 32,000 year old lion headed statuette found in a cave in Germany, and that Laura discusses in detail in the Mithras extract that was posted on the forum recently. Also, there's an older article about the German lion find on SOTT here and wiki.

On the Denisova lion there is a kind of notch pattern, and it may simply be decoration, but it did make me think of the 11,600 year old Shigir idol, also found in Russia, whose pattern is thought to be some form of code or writing. Notably, on the German lion "Seven parallel, transverse, carved gouges are on the left arm."

Below is the relevant part, but you'll find more information about the other, less recent finds, also mentioned in the article, if you follow the link:

45,000 year old lion statuette found in Denisova Cave may be world's oldest

Cave lion figurine in situ at the Denisova Cave in the Altai mountains.

Aged approximately 45,000 years, this might be the world's oldest animal statuette.

The sensational discovery was made three months ago in the Altai Mountains by the team of archeologists from Novosibirsk Institute of Archeology and Ethnography.

The precious small - 42mm long, 8mm thick and 11mm high - figurine of a cave lion (Panthera spelaea, lat) was made by an Upper Palaeolithic artist between 40,000 and 45,000 years ago.

It was found inside the 11th layer of the southern gallery of the Denisova Cave.

Cave lion figurine

The lion's head is missing, what we see is its hind legs, groin, back and belly, covered in an ornament of eighteen rows of nothes.

Cave lion figurine
This is the oldest sculptural zoomorphic image ever found in Siberia and throughout the territory of Northern and Central Asia.

The precise age is yet to be confirmed
, but the cautious dating given by Siberian archeologists means that this might be the oldest animal figurine in the world.

The lion's head is missing, what we see is its hind legs, groin, back and belly, covered in an ornament of eighteen rows of nothes.

There are two extra rows with four notches on the lion's right side.

'The figurine depicts an animal with its tummy tucked in, its hind legs bent. It is either galloping, jumping or getting ready to jump. The animal is shown in a typical for big cats position for the moment when they are ready to catch a prey', said Mikhail Shunkov, head of the Institute's Stone Age Archeology Department.

The mammoth ivory for the statuette was delivered from quite a distance away, Russian scientists say. It had to be carried for at least 100 kilometres from the northern footsteps of the Altai Mountains.

After finishing the figurine, the cave artist used red ochre to paint it.

So far traces of it were found mostly around the stomach area - which even led to an idea that it could be symbolising a bleeding wound - but researcher Alexander Fedorchenko believes that most likely the whole animal was painted red.

Remains of ocher were found only in the southern gallery of the Denisova cave.

In 2018 a 'pencil' and a marble stone with traces of ocher powder were discovered in the same area where later archeologist unearthed the cave lion - making the trio the first set of such kind in history of Siberian archeology.

marble stone with traces of ocher
ocher
© Institute of Archeology and Ethnography

In 2018 a ‘pencil’ and a marble stone with traces of ocher powder were discovered in the same area where later archeologist unearthed the cave lion.

It is still unclear if the figurine depicts a male or a female lion, as well as the purpose of the find. The archeologists believe it is 'too simplistic' to assume this was a toy, but there is no proof that it could have been a cult item.

The artist's identity is another question to be answered. The assumption is that it was a Denisovan, but as professor Shunkov added, '45000 years ago was the time when Homo sapiens already wondered around Siberia, so it was quite likely that they could have influenced the Denisovans.'

Was this one of the first-known artistic collaboration then?

The answer is yet to come, say archeologists, but they are certain that by the style it was made the Denisovan Cave Lion doesn't resemble anything previously found int he world.

The closest in style are cave lions figurines from Vogerfelt Cave in south-west Germany, and from caves in south-west France.
 
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Sorry, but why don't you take a serious look at this thread first and then maybe we can talk more. That is a possibility too (or not).
Who said that ? You? With all my respect for you your opinion is yours and valid ...but you are nobody to judge if is serious or not valid what I wrote ....I don't have to agree with you...save your statements and your job of guard of the forum...my comment wasn't malignant...sorry for you....and good bye....
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
but you are nobody to judge

Never said your comment was "malignant" that is your judgement. I don't think you are willing to understand yourself or this forum and that is your choice. You surely knew the forum rules before joining. Save your statements for another forum or blog (which this forum is not).

Sorry for you too. Good bye. :bye: By the way, I hate saying good bye to anyone but if that is what you wish then I don't want to interfere with your free will. You could slow down and think about why I said what I did but in this busy chaotic world very few want to do that. You know "just in a little bit in a hurry......" no time to actually think about why someone would disagree with you. No, you don't have to agree with me nor I with you but it doesn't mean the end of the world.
 
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Never said your comment was "malignant" that is your judgement. I don't think you are willing to understand yourself or this forum and that is your choice. You surely knew the forum rules before joining. Save your statements for another forum or blog (which this forum is not).

Sorry for you too. Good bye. :bye: By the way, I hate saying good bye to anyone but if that is what you wish then I don't want to interfere with your free will. You could slow down and think about why I said what I did but in this busy chaotic world very few want to do that. You know "just in a little bit in a hurry......" no time to actually think about why someone would disagree with you. No, you don't have to agree with me nor I with you but it doesn't mean the end of the world.
Exactly my friend...don't take it to serious...saying good bye is just the end of the topic ..I strongly believe that this forum is not for this...sayonara? Aurevoir? Adios? Salamat.........
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Obviously the imagery of the lion reminded me of the 32,000 year old lion headed statuette found in a cave in Germany, and that Laura discusses in detail in the Mithras extract that was posted on the forum recently. Also, there's an older article about the German lion find on SOTT here and wiki.

On the Denisova lion there is a kind of notch pattern, and it may simply be decoration, but it did make me think of the 11,600 year old Shigir idol, also found in Russia, whose pattern is thought to be some form of code or writing. Notably, on the German lion "Seven parallel, transverse, carved gouges are on the left arm."

@itellsya ,

It may be nothing but the notches on the figures makes me wonder about code or writing .

(The_Sphinx_Armachis,_Cairo).jpg

The "notches" almost correspond to the notched lines on the Spinx headress.

But the feline aspect was an interesting aspect I thought.

Session 22 October 1994:
Q: (L) What did the original face on the sphinx look like?

A: Looked like a representation of a feline and a human.

Session 16 November 1994:
Q: (L) Why did the sphinx look like a feline human?

A: Symbolism of feline energy.

Q: (L) Was this why the Egyptians worshipped cats or held cats in such high regard?

A: At root of this.

Q: (L) What was the origin of this feline god?

A: Atlantean tradition.


Q: (L) Where did the Atlantean tradition of the feline god originate?

A: Superstition.

Q: (L) What was the superstition about?

A: Not important.

Q: (L) Well, it is possibly important because such an enormous monument was built to honor this god and I am sure the world would like to know what is at the root of this.

A: What is at root of Statue of Liberty?

Q: (L) A principle. So, a feline principle is at the root of the sphinx?

A: Close.

Q: (L) It does not represent any alien beings, gods or goddesses?

A: No.

Q: (L) And what was this god's name?

A: Endurra.


Q: (L) Why did the worship of this god or goddess stop?

A: Fizzled out.

Session 4 March 1995:
Q: (J) Yeah, so in switching from one to the other you don't want to get disoriented. If you have compass knowledge ingrained in you when you switch from physical to non- physical, you will know where you are. (L) In a previous session we talked about the feline principle as represented by the sphinx, and the fact that Egyptians worshipped cats. Is there anything more you can give us on this? Why was this so? Was the cat representative of some principle we need to learn or investigate?

A: This is not really important.

Q: (T) Is the cat and the cat symbol itself important in some way?

A: You are; up to the perceiver.

Sorry for the long list but I do think it relates to our history of religion threads as well. I am not sure how to connect the lion image with the Mithraic bull yet but the lion image seems to be a predecessor.

Session 14 August 2016:
Q: (L) I see. Well, maybe we should begin with some of the questions that are from that abstract level since that's where we are. In the course of my recent research, I keep going deeper and deeper and further back following one thread after another. While I have touched on the topic of Zoroastrianism in the past, I had never gone into it as deeply as I recently decided to do. As a consequence, I ended up reading several scholarly tomes on the topic. It seems there are two schools. One school thinks that Zoroaster was a fairly late phenomenon, probably 7th century BC. The other school relies on the linguistics - the philology I guess they'd call it - and they claim that the language of Zoroaster must date back to the second millennium BC - that is, somewhere between 1600 and 1200 BC. That would put Zoroaster in the timeframe of, say, Akhenaten. In brief, Zoroaster claimed to have had a vision, or so the story goes, that revealed to him the One God, Ahura Mazda, and he promoted a religion of almost pure monotheism as well as being more or less the originator of the idea that human beings have the free will to choose good or evil. He also was the first to come up with ideas of messianism, eschatology. It was an apocalyptic religion in the sense of being revealed, but also that there were to be revelations about the end of time - time of course being a very important concept in his religion as it developed. So, I guess the first question I want to know is: Is there any possibility that Akhenaten was influenced by Zoroastrianism? Is that a possibility?

A: Not just a possibility, but a certainty.

Q: (L) If that's the case, how was that possible?

A: The ancient world was quite "well connected".

Q: (L) Okay... Can you get me any closer to a clue here?

A: Check the Hurrian connection.

Q: (L) I thought I had checked that pretty deeply. I guess I could read some more. Now, there are those who say that Zurvanism was an attempt to deal with some of the dangling problems that Zoroaster left in terms of his dualism. One of his hymns describes Ahura Mazda and Ahriman as twins, so, they came up with Zurvanism, the ultimate god of space/time as father to the twins to explain this. Is that in fact the case?

A: No. Zurvan was the ancient god of the steppes and the Indo-Aryan peoples.

Q: (L) Okay, I've got a paper here... It seems that Zurvan was perceived as the god of infinite time and space, and was described as, "One Alone, a transcendental neutral god, and without passion. One for whom there was no distinction between good and evil. So, Zurvan had a varied history... So, the problem I want to get to right now is the idea that Zurvan was represented as the lion-headed god. There was a lion man figure found in Hohlenstein-Stadel, which is a German cave. It's carved out of ivory, and it's THE oldest known zoomorphic animal sculpture in the world, and the oldest known uncontested example of figurative art. It has been determined to be about - ready? 40,000 years old!! That was by carbon dating the material which was in the same layer where the figure was found. It was associated with the Aurignacian culture and it was 29cm in height, carved out of mammoth ivory using a flint stone knife. Seven parallel, transverse, carved gouges are on the left arm. The figure of Zurvan is often represented with a serpent coiled around him seven times. It is said that the sculpture shares certain similarities with French cave wall paintings which also show hybrid creatures. The Lion man is several thousand years older. Anyhow, this artifact seems to resemble very closely the lion man figure that was described as being the representation of Zurvan. So, I guess my question is: Are we talking about the same religion or religious ideas or perceptions that were common to the cultures that produced the cave art in Western Europe?

A: Yes

Q: (L) And they came up with these ideas of infinite time and space that far back?

A: And so much more. They were "connected".

Q: (L) So in other words, what we are looking at here through a probably distorted survival via Zoroaster or Zarathushtra is that the Aryan religion was based first of all on a supreme principle of infinite time and infinite space from which was born essentially "good mind" and "evil mind" as Zoroaster put it?

A: Yes. STO and STS duality.


Q: (L) And this same religion, either in its older form or its later elaboration by Zarathushtra, was the origin of the ideas of free will?

A: Yes

Q: (L) Of savior gods?

A: Yes


Q: (L) The Six Bounteous Immortals, or I guess what we could say archetypes or sixth density?

A: Yes

Q: (L) Basically, it almost seemed as though it was a religion about information. Everything emerges from information, but there are some other very particular things about it that are very advanced. They were talking about things that physicists talk about nowadays.

A: Yes


Q: (L) It also seems to be the closest religious exposition of anything that I've come across to what we have received via these transmissions.

A: Yes

Q: (L) I'm just saying "close", because obviously there are some distortions and so forth. So did Zarathushtra modify this original religion because he had a vision, or...?

A: The ideas had already been corrupted, and Zarathushtra sought to recover the truth.

Q: (L) So it had already been corrupted, and he was trying to bring it back in line. He got close, but didn't quite make it. Is that it?

A: Yes
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I meant to include this after the "fizzled out" in the previous post but missed it.

Hoagland, Hyperdimensions, Space and Time
Q: (L) Okay, since you said that the Sphinx symbolized a religion, or worship of a god named Endurra which just ‘fizzled out,’ how can this be reconciled with the obvious celestial relationship to this monument and this whole Giza complex. It seems that there is a far deeper meaning to the Sphinx than just the worship of a feline principle that just ‘fizzled out.’ Comment please?
A: It “fizzled” because the kept secrets faded.
Q: (A) Here is a picture of a pyramid, and they ask what this hieroglyph means. [Picture of a man pointing to something] What does it mean?
A: Passage to higher levels. <p >09.12.98

Zarathushtra seems to have tried to recover these "fizzled out" secrets that faded from a corrupted Zurvan religion .

And pattern recognition run-amok inclined could think about:

The Wave Chapter 22: The Nexus Seven Meet the Cassiopaeans
Q: (T) So, this whole thing with the space station and all the trouble they are having readapting to gravity when they come back, is all a game…

A: When you “let the cat out of the bag,” you create an entire feline “nation”.

Q: (T) So, we are capable of Star Trek right now?

A: In a sense, but there is so much more than that.

The above is just a weak connection other than a characteristic of those who love to keep "secrets" and make everything "fade away".
 
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Evan

Jedi Master
G
@itellsya ,

It may be nothing but the notches on the figures makes me wonder about code or writing .

20C145EC-201F-4987-9414-6AEB68566892.jpeg
The "notches" almost correspond to the notched lines on the Spinx headress.
Goyacobol, I’m not sure if I’m looking at what you’re describing exactly, and perhaps it’s just shadow-play in this particular photo, but while reading your quote my eye was drawn to the almost mirror-like way the headdress on the right side of the image reflects off of the ear!
 

itellsya

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
(apologies about the font - i tried changing it using the fonts provided in the options but none match the default)

The Oriental Institute has just released a 90 minute presentation that was streamed yesterday called "What we learned from 25 years of research at CatalHöyük", it's by Ian Hodder, Stanford University, Director of the Catalhoyuk Archaeological Project.

Their presentations can be hit or miss, but there are some good ones so i would definitely anyone who likes this kind of thing having a look around at the others.


I haven't had chance to check out the presentation yet so if anybody does have the opportunity to do so, and can also take down some notes, please feel free to provide a summary for those who will not have time to watch the presentation.

The best i could gather online from the content of the talk is as follows:

Facebook event blurb:
Summary of Event: This talk describes 25 years of excavation and analysis of the Neolithic site of Catalhoyuk near Konya in Turkey. Dated to the 7th millennium BCE, the site was first excavated in the 1960s, but the application of modern scientific and forensic techniques has allowed a unique new insight into the lives of the 8000 inhabitants who populated this early town. The research conducted by 100s of scientists over several decades has allowed a 'thick description' of daily life that is unique and complex in its detail

Youtube comments:
I still doubt the egalitarian hypothesis. Transegalitarism, similar to North Pacific american hunter-gatherers, with no formal elites but powerful individuals that acumulated power through networks of reciprocity could be a good tentative explanation of the social structure in Catal Hoyuk. Excelent presentation nonetheless.

@1:15:03 the dead are buried with the knees drawn up tightly to the chest this looks exactly like the burials found at the archaeological site known as Gobero in the Sahara Desert, The Kiffian culture which is said to have existed around the same time as Catalhoyuk and Jerico also have similar DNA. in fact ancient DNA from across Europe Asia and Africa during this time period have similar genetic markers, this seems to point to a genetic bottleneck

And below is the full presentation - in the comments it states that at 9:57 the lecture begins and 1:09:35 Q&A begins :


What we learned from 25 Years of Research at Catalhoyuk
1,691 views
•Streamed live 21 hours ago

The Oriental Institute

29K subscribers
Braidwood Visiting Scholar Lecture Ian Hodder, Stanford University, Director of the Catalhoyuk Archaeological Project
The Oriental Institute

19 hours ago (edited)

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