Star Trek Discovery
- Thread starter genero81
- Start date
Opinions are what they are.
But I wouldn't compare the Expanse to TNG or The Orville beyond putting them all in the "Space Ships" box. -One is about exploration and testing cultural questions in little 15 minute vignettes.
The Expanse was a noire murder mystery combined with intelligent political intrigue set in a meticulously constructed and consistent story world. -All against the backdrop of one of the most unique alien invasion concepts I've ever seen in sci-fi. -And with spaceships which actually obey the laws of physics! Since when has there been a space adventure where to stop a ship, you have to turn around and thrust in the opposite direction? That much attention to detail combined with an interesting plot and interesting characters... I have to bow to expertise. (I think it was so good because the production team held true to the book series as far as they were able.)
But I did find that it was a bit of a slow burn. I didn't really get what they were doing until about episode 3.
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I'll just leave the following video here.
You can just watch the first 10 minutes.Also, until not long ago I could have something unkind to say about ST Discovery.
But I've decided to reserve the final opinion until I actually watch it at some point. After all, I liked ST Enterprise. {Oh, come on, Trekkies, don't throw stones or rotten tomatoes at me. Back then I watched apologetic interviews with the directors or the writers, where they explained why the first seasons were kind of crappy. After all, the first season of ST TNG isn't particularly stellar either!}And this:
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I've started The Orville and I thought it was hilarious, but so far I don't feel compelled to go back to it very often. Obviously it's a parody of Star Trek. The way the first season starts out, it's a comedy in a Sci Fi setting. But it sounds like it develops into it's own thing, which is why I will keep watching it. I'm almost finished with season two of The Expanse. I agree with Woodsman, it's well done, realistic, artfully constructed and coherent. Some praise it as possibly the best Sci Fi series ever. It's worth watching IMO.
But I'm still enjoying Star Trek Discovery, too. So far, The Orville is my least favorite but I've only watched two episodes (I think)
But I'm still enjoying Star Trek Discovery, too. So far, The Orville is my least favorite but I've only watched two episodes (I think)
It didn't really pick up and find its bearings until around episode 5, Krill.
It was episode 6. I've just started season two. I must say the writing is wonderfully imaginative. I mean I've watched the first couple of episodes of the new Twilight Zone and those writers kind of suck by comparison. The A. I. Isaac is terrific! Of course I really liked Data in Star Trek but Issac has his own appeal. "Isaac, do you think I'm a bad mother?" "Yes"
Overall a refreshing take on the sci fi genre. Good call!
It was episode 6. I've just started season two. I must say the writing is wonderfully imaginative. I mean I've watched the first couple of episodes of the new Twilight Zone and those writers kind of suck by comparison. The A. I. Isaac is terrific! Of course I really liked Data in Star Trek but Issac has his own appeal. "Isaac, do you think I'm a bad mother?" "Yes"
Overall a refreshing take on the sci fi genre. Good call!
That's great! I'm glad you like it. I also recently started watching The Expanse and have seen the first several episodes and it's better than I thought it would be. It keeps me guessing as to what is going on and every time I think I have it figured out, they throw a curve ball to deepen the mystery. It is of course, much different than The Orville with a 'darker' tone, but very well-written with a complex story line.
lilies
The Living Force
This show is a good product. What I liked about this show were the amazing reinvention of the spaceships and the shuttles. They look "real" and rugged. Entering, exiting and traveling at lightspeed in hyperspace looks super gritty, raw, frightening and dangerous. I love it that this show emphasizes the cruelty of objective reality, that the Universe is not here to indulge human beings to have a leisure, sugar-coated space adventure, where they can walk around in their Star Trek pajamas, because that's what Picard's crew looked like.
I always watch this series with glasses to get all the super sharp CGI detail.
Also this series has the minimum required amount of Hollywood cuties, which are essential for a successful TV Show. For example, most excellent ** Orville ** (THE other, but way better Star Trek comedy show) has more cuties and because of its enlightened story writing, its comedy-nature and super excellent character development, I think, it is very much like The Work!!
I always watch this series with glasses to get all the super sharp CGI detail.
Also this series has the minimum required amount of Hollywood cuties, which are essential for a successful TV Show. For example, most excellent ** Orville ** (THE other, but way better Star Trek comedy show) has more cuties and because of its enlightened story writing, its comedy-nature and super excellent character development, I think, it is very much like The Work!!
duyunne
Jedi Council Member
I haven't given Discovery a day in court, largely due to the changes implemented to the Klingons (they are apparently purple). I really can't handle changes to my favorite franchises... An example would be the non orchestral theme song for Enterprise (a deal breaker for me over 10 years ago, which I regret! As it's now on Netflix and I can skip the opening and I actually really enjoy it.)
A work colleague explained the reasons why they made purple klingons... I came accross this video and this answers a lot of questions for me as to the differences between Discovery and the rest of the Star Trek canon:
"From the first episode of Star Trek in 1966, up until the last episode of Enterprise in 2005, the Star Trek canon consisted of multiple tv series and feature films, all of which were interconnected, and which spanned several starships and crews over the course of 200 years.
Such interconnectivity is no longer possible.
Modern Star Trek consists of the rebooted Paramount/Bad robot films set in the Kelvin timeline, and Star Trek Discovery, which has no connection to the movies, as it is set in the prime timeline – despite it not lining up with canon in any way, shape or form.
There is a reason for that.
Behind this drastic change, are complex rights and licensing issues, which are frequently referenced, but their details and implications have hitherto not been fully explored. In this video, we will break down these rights and licensing issues, their repercussions, and the key people for better or worse associated with them, and if there is a way forward where canon can be preserved."
A work colleague explained the reasons why they made purple klingons... I came accross this video and this answers a lot of questions for me as to the differences between Discovery and the rest of the Star Trek canon:
"From the first episode of Star Trek in 1966, up until the last episode of Enterprise in 2005, the Star Trek canon consisted of multiple tv series and feature films, all of which were interconnected, and which spanned several starships and crews over the course of 200 years.
Such interconnectivity is no longer possible.
Modern Star Trek consists of the rebooted Paramount/Bad robot films set in the Kelvin timeline, and Star Trek Discovery, which has no connection to the movies, as it is set in the prime timeline – despite it not lining up with canon in any way, shape or form.
There is a reason for that.
Behind this drastic change, are complex rights and licensing issues, which are frequently referenced, but their details and implications have hitherto not been fully explored. In this video, we will break down these rights and licensing issues, their repercussions, and the key people for better or worse associated with them, and if there is a way forward where canon can be preserved."
First about Enterprise. Being an avid Trekkie, at the beginning I also considered this show being even worse than Voyager (if this could be possible
, though it had its moments..since I rewatched it several times in the past 
), but then I watched Enterprise director and writer commentaries, or explanations to be exact. Apparently they had to deal with impossible writing time frames, and first two seasons were very weak because of that. The third season was much better, and then when they finally found their footing during the fourth season, they were canceled. Actually, I thought that the fourth season was excellent and a true tribute to the Star Trek canon.So many stories from the original Star Trek got the proper background there. And apparently it was that excellent because the writers and the actors had nothing to lose. They knew that it was their last season, so they did whatever they wanted, including story arks that involved several episodes, which isn't something that is usually done on Star Trek.
Another thing that should be kept in mind about Enterprise, that it is pre-Federation, pre-Prime Directive, pre-the ideal that was promoted by Gene Roddenberry. And yes, pre-Pickard. Actually, the only really annoying character that I barely got used to was the captain. His character is too American for my taste.
But they still manage to finish ok. I am sure that if they would continue, they would get even better.Now about ST Discovery! I also still refuse to watch it *as part of Star Trek franchise* because these are NOT Klingons. And also there are some other things that apparently go totally against the canon. One of the things I also watched about recently, that apparently in Discovery Section 31 is on one hand supposed to be a totally secret organization, and yet it is everywhere and everyone knows about it.
If you saw DS9 you know it is a total bull.But apparently several friends of mine watched it and liked it. They say I really should try watching it, so never say never. Not now, but will see.
Perhaps the only way I would be able to do it is accept that it is indeed not Star Trek. And I do love sci-fi in general.
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So Do I and I have seen all the episodes of all the many kind of Star Trek shows.
But apparently several friends of mine watched it and liked it. They say I really should try watching it, so never say never. Not now, but will see.
Well since I do love sci-fi in general, I have watched this new serie as a little cousin of the original Star Trek and I really enjoy it. Looking for the next season if there is one.
But apparently several friends of mine watched it and liked it. They say I really should try watching it, so never say never. Not now, but will see.
I watched all three seasons of Discovery. Not sorry I did. If you're that big of a fan of sci-fi then it would be a shame not to. Trust me, I'm a doctor!
Oh wait... That's Dr. Who . Never mind
Although I agree that Star Treck Discovery is rather well written and played out, the overall flavour of the whole series strikes me as rather dark, meaningless and murky, in stark contrast to Star Treck Next Generation and The Orvile, which I really enjoy and look forward to watch.
I came to think lately that if there is not a correct or no archetypical theme present in series and movies (which seems to be especially common nowadays) in the sense that Jordan Peterson talks about it (like hero archetype against a villain archetype and higher purposes/meaning), or worse, what seems like a overall pathological outlook and dark overall undertones, that this might be the reason why I just don‘t enjoy certain stuff although on the face of it, it might be pretty well made.
Anyway, just my working theory, which might be wrong.
I came to think lately that if there is not a correct or no archetypical theme present in series and movies (which seems to be especially common nowadays) in the sense that Jordan Peterson talks about it (like hero archetype against a villain archetype and higher purposes/meaning), or worse, what seems like a overall pathological outlook and dark overall undertones, that this might be the reason why I just don‘t enjoy certain stuff although on the face of it, it might be pretty well made.
Anyway, just my working theory, which might be wrong.
Thank you, Pashalis, for writing the above.
This is exactly how I feel about certain series, but couldn't put it into words so clearly. In my opinion it IS important to notice what is an underlying current in the series or the movies. Because after all, if we ARE going to spend a chunk of our time on entertainment, at least it should have something constructive for the self development, and personally I don't see "overall pathological outlook and dark overall undertones" as constructive. Unfortunately we have plenty of that in real life. That's why in my personal case I would always prefer perhaps more cheesy, but also more hopeful series, even if they may have their dark moments too. But others may be more immune to the darkness and still enjoy it in a constructive way.
Thank you, Pashalis, for writing the above.
True, IMO.
At the same time, I think there is also a problem going with mostly "light and fluffy and hopeful" things to the exclusion of the darker stuff.
In the Hopeful Only case, one could probably argue that this may also be a symptom of a desire to ignore or shut out certain parts of one's own personal reality.
IOW, All Dark = probably you're screwed up. All light = probably you're screwed up.
But then, we already know we're all screwed up, so it also depends to a large extent on a person's individual tastes and/or need for one type of dissociation or "chill time" as compared to another person.
For example, if I'm depressed, I might avoid dark stuff because it's too depressing, and maybe that's a good idea. So I watch light stuff, and that makes me more depressed because it reminds me of what I don't have. Or, I watch light stuff and it cheers me up.
Case #2: I'm depressed, so I watch only dark stuff. In one scenario, that makes everything worse. In another scenario, it reminds me that dang, things are really not so bad, so I should get a grip!
I guess it really depends on the person, how they process their own crap, how they use or interpret what they watch.
Of course, it would be better if we didn't need ANY kind of show, ever, but yeah... If we were all happy and cheerful and whole, the world would end because there wouldn't be any point because we'd never learn or grow.
There is also the problem of "binge-watching", which I don't think is ever good for anyone. Netflix is designed to promote binge watching, which is probably not good.
In any case, there is also the fact that some people actually have physical stress reactions to watching certain kinds of things, which is probably not optimal. Others don't.
Lots of variables to consider.
Now, as for the shows...
I find Orville to be much more Star Trek-like, but also kind of annoyingly shiny and clean and perfect sometimes. They also tend to rehash old ST storylines sometimes instead of coming up with something new. The humor is refreshing, but they toned it down too much, which I thought sucked because the humor made it better. But I like it overall.
ST:D (an unfortunate acronym) is much darker, much more drama-drama-drama (I love you! No I don't! I'm leaving! No wait, I'm back! Oh, but now you don't love me! We're all gonna die! OH! We love each other again!)
, and also very much "modern" in the sense of unlimited cliffhangers and a meandering storyline that seems to be "write as you go" and is specifically designed to hook people... which is quite common nowadays, unfortunately. It's also annoying that you have to get all the way to the end of a season usually to get some kind of positive resolution to all the problems and dark stuff... but then, that's not unlike life.But I like it overall... tho probably not as much as The Orville, which would be perfect if they made it funnier again.